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Comments
Agree with you also pal.
Rocky :sick:
On another note, I always thought that Chevy's use of the "SS" designation for sports models was an unfortunate choice. It didn't seem to hurt sales, but I would have thought that sharing a designation with [non-permissible content removed] storm troopers would not have been a great idea...
Yes, the USA needs to rebuild industries. We are lacking a lot of things which should be in some measure made in America. Like you said, national security is at stake, as well as, the economy.
As for GM and Ford. I would say they left the customer, instead of the other way around. When you walk out of someone, it is hard to do, but you really should say you are sorry when you return. Maybe a nice warranty, and some loyalty - or repatriation reward discounts would help. Find those that dropped out of the domestic buying in the 70's - 90's and welcome them on back. It was NOT the fault of the buyers, or some slick advertising campaign of Japan cars makes which changed the buying habits. People had a bad experience with the Big 3, and/or simply tried out a Japan make and liked the steering, braking, cornering, fit and finish and such, and bought them instead. The Union issue I won't get into. I am sure this has been talked over many times, and everyone has varying views of what happened over the years. Aside of contract issues and relations with Union help, are the cars produced,advertising, management, engineering, customer relations with warranties, and of course styling. But it is all too common for people to say that Americans should have bought more American car, when it was the responsibility of the companies to provide the better product and services.
I may look at a few American makes next time. The Fusion looks pretty good. Well it is made in Mexico, but that is a country within one of the Americas. :shades: Will look at a couple GM too. Maybe used though.
I am old enough to recall when made in America was top quality, and then made in Japan, and now ??? And there are still some things like tools which are made here, and are considered the best in quality. It can be done... again.
-Loren
A good answer Loren and similar to what I would have said.
The TV set industry went the same way.
But, Asian car makers do employ a lot of Americans building cars, selling and servicing them.
Costs of building American cars went up (mostly due to the unions) and profit as well as the quality went down or at least stayed the same, but the new kids on the block were a little keener to give the public more for your money.
I would buy American if the car was equal or better value.
I haven't bought an Asian car yet, but if that was the market I was looking in I would consider them because I only hear good things, and I like the look and driving experience of the cars more (rentals), not to mention the reliability factor.
The U.S. will survive, just as they did when TV production went to Asia. Exaltdedragon1 you are only in your 20's....the U.S. is a great country and there will be new markets and products.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
The Torrent is moving over to GMC when the Equinox is redesigned.
Buick isn't getting a version of the VUE, but Cadillac and Saab may get new small SUV's on a platform called Theta-Epsilon towards the end of the decade.
Here is a website that is supposed to be somewhat accurate on GM's future plans:
http://www3.sympatico.ca/tedkrygier/future.htm
Insiders give him much of the information.
If that is the case, why are their bonds in junk status?
Uh, didn't you read the article I posted a way back about how GM has been recording cash they never received for the past 4 years, and are now going to be billions in the red when the corrections are made? No cash, no more. Plus a possible few indictments. And that's one reason their bonds are in junk status.
With Sky and Aura they are trying to rebuild the brand, but they have some ground to make up.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Even worse than I imagined.
I think the plan is to sell Impalas and Cobalts and just trucks in North Amaerica. Probably do a Chapter 11 and start from scratch.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
They would've done this vehicle a much greater justice though, if they'd have put the newer 3.5 engine under the hood, instead of the 3.4. It's like they got the vehicle most of the way right, but then shot it in the foot with the engine.
In the end, I think my buddy made a better decision with the Xterra, because it's more trucky, and projects a more youthful image I guess, and that's what he wanted. The Equinox, in contrast, seems to show a bit more minivan in its DNA.
She calls me, I go over and the car turns but never cranks up. I just GUESS that maybe it's not getting fuel. Well she has to tow it to the chevy dealer. They tell her it's the fuel pump! Whoa. How can this be, the car(part) is only three years old. Oh and guess what? The car is just out of warranty :mad: They quote her $900 dollars for a new fuel pump. Are you kidding me! That's crazy. And you domestic faithfull say foreign car parts are expensive, geez. They don't give her a break or anything, just pitiful. Oh one last thing, they say the reason the pump failed is that she ran the gas tank down too low too many times. She said she only did that ONCE! GM is a straight Crap I tell ya! I told her don't buy anymore domestic cars. Hyanduai, kia, honda, toyo or something, but not anymore american cars. GM, just lost another customer for life probably. Good job.
GM markets it as a young family hauler. It seems to me that it would handle that fairly well.
GM does have plenty of players in the real truck market. The fact the 'Nox is not one does not seem a problem to me.
I see. And so you have told your cousin when her Hyundai, Toyo, Honda or something breaks down out of warranty, it will get fixed for free?
Are you confident enough about that to promise to make up the difference if they don't?
Sheesh. :confuse:
Wagon issues aside, have some golden senior relatives and neighbors. Some of these have expressed disdain for recent auto designs that limit visibility. High trunk lines, large rear pillars, smallish rear glass, headrests on back seats, high belt lines, etc. All of these styling elements are not friendly to seniors. Some current GM sedans and Chrysler (300, Charger), as well as last gen of Intrepids, Concordes would seem to have poor visibility for seniors (as well as the younger gen).
Have not looked at, sat in Equinox, but it would appear to offer some visibility pluses having a lot of glass and putting the driver higher up.
What should 80-year old people buy?
It would seem that a manufacturer would be successful if it has a product that appeals to a large age group (21-90?).
Has anyone every provided any evidence beyond rank speculation?
The real evidence shows Suzuki wanted to increase its market share in NA, but nevertheless only looked to make XL7s and Vitaras in its US plant, failed to make a NA standard Swift, and did not otherwise have product here for the US.
If Suzuki made a mistake hurrying GM DAT product to the US market, seems clear the mistake was all Suzuki's.
As has been confirmed here many times, objective data show GM cars are as reliable as the top foreign makes and more so than many others.
Decisions on repairing a car out of warranty is wholly with the dealers - which as we all know are independent of the manufacturer.
My subjective experience with foreign dealers is they are every bit as stingy and hard on the customer as you claim your cousin's was.
JD Power lists many GM brand dealer experiences above Toyo, Honda and Hyundai.
And I must say, I'm a foreign car person. But I do believe that Toyota and Honda are slipping in their quality and craftsmanship. I notice the use of more plastics in their interiors. I notice the complaints of little nagging issues and BIGGER ISSUES like transmissions in Honda's and the NEW Camry. Not good at all. If they don't work to improve, their could be some hard times coming for them. Honda in particular as they are smaller.
I would like to see the Big 2.5 come back, cause the more competition there is out there; the better it is for all of us. It makes all automakers work harder to improve.
Were the Cavalier under warranty, GM would have had a say in the repair, as it fully compensates the dealer. Out of warranty, the dealer is completely in charge.
Perhaps GM and some of the other makes could do what Daimler did in the past: Dealers with high consumer rankings were given a 4 (or was it 5) star ranking. As Daimler trademarked the concept, only those dealers granted a license could use it. That way Daimler can endorse those dealers who meet its customer relations standards.
Possible long term scenario: suppose Toyota and others succeed in killing the Big Three? With nobody left to compete with them and the UAW vanquished, they could make Wal-Mart quality cars with workers paid a Wal-Mart wage and charge Neiman-Marcus prices. Either you buy our $35K Lada-built Camry or you don't get a car, sucker! Would Hyundai be big enough to go up against them?
My neighbour who is 80 and still has his 1988 Chev wagon with 100,000K and no problems is considering an Equinox because it is closest to a wagon he can get in a GM. If this is the average buyer they are aiming for then that isn't great marketing.
The Xterra is more rugged, truck-like and isn't a van disguised as an SUV.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Hyundai or a China new car company, heck any other country car company, at the point Japan slips, could take over market share. I would not be concerned about price and quality as the market forces keep that in check for cars. If cars can be built correctly by people for minimum wage, then that will be the standard wage. If Wal Mart was run like GM and workers paid large sums not to work, you would have your wish, and Wal Mart would be gone. At which point in time you are free to pay double for the same items.
-Loren
ToyoHon are selling cars based on their reputation of past years. But I must say there aren't any cars that interest me, except a couple. I think they are slowly losing their way. Stay tuned
I agree that a break every once in awhile would do volumes for telling other people the nice things about a company. We all know GM could use alot of that.
Buicks!
I just followed a senior going about 20 in a 50 mph area today, then he took about 10 minutes to turn the corner.
Guess what he was driving? Begins with B and ends in K.
Actually, you make a good point. Seniors like being up higher and the big windows. Fair enough, but designers are on this small windows and sunken seat kick, then someone will come out with huge windows and say this is a great new idea...cars you can actually see out of!
Some cars are probably pretty good though, like Honda, Malibu, Camry, Corolla, Fusion, Ford 500 (claims their seats are high).
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
That's how it was before the Asian invasion. Actually, there would still be competition just as there is with TV sets.
I would like to know how many miles were on the Cavalier when it broke down? I have had several cars with 80,000 to 100,000 miles and have never had a fuel pump break down. Unfortunately, warranties have deadlines and few companies will give you a break. Our luxury model Bosch dishwasher broke down a few weeks after the 2 year warranty, it was $300 to fix. I told them it will be the last Bosch anything I would ever buy. They couldn't care less.
Our 1995 Volvo broke down numerous times. A computer glitch that 3 dealers had to work on it. I told them, the last Volvo we will buy....couldn't care less.
Some car company would be really smart to go the extra mile and give their customers a break once in awhile...better advertising then all those ridiculous ads that have no effect. One break and that person would tell 10 people, and so on.....
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I felt the cars built before the Asian invasion were awesome. My 1968 Buick ran well for 24 years. They only seemed to get crappy AFTER the Asians arrived as if the Big Three threw up their hands and said, "We give up!" They progressively got worse until about the mid 1980s. Ninety eighty-one was the nadir.
The 20+ year old Zenith color console I inherited from my parents still delivers a great picture. My girlfriend's parents had a new Sony Hi-Def TV that quit after 2 years. I once had a Samsung TV that was such a piece of garbage I had the keep pounding my foot on the floor to get the picture back. The Asians are better?
Buicks and Cadillacs are excellent cars. I tell everybody who is looking for a new car to consider them.
the next generation of the Chevrolet Impala first out of the chute in June
2009, with expected annual sales of 165,000 cars.
Next comes Camaro in September 2009, with annual sales projected at 100,000
a year, including a convertible version of the muscle car, which was a
smash hit at the North American International Auto Show in Detroit in
January.
The two Chevrolet models will be followed by the Cadillac DTS sedan in June
2010, and the Buick Lucerne in October 2010, with production of each of
those two cars forecast at 120,000 annually.
That is pathetic. It would be interesting to know how much it would cost at an independent garage. Sometimes dealerships overcharge, but then some independents can really take advantage. A good honest mechanic is a real find!
It might be worth an email or call to GM just to let them know what happened. I think it is only fair for them to know about it and decide whether they want to give you a break or look into it for a customer they might lose. IMO when a consumer has been wronged, the company should get a chance to make it right or give you an explanation. Then you can decide what to buy next time.
With our company we usually give the customer the benefit of the doubt, and most customers are so surprised to see this, they become even better customers! They tell people and you gain more than you lose. I don't expect that you will get a free repair, but it gives GM a chance to respond.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Yes, my wife needed a Euro-dishwasher...don't ask....I just wanted another Maytag.
Probably the Asian cars are superior in fit and finish and newer technology etc. and the only way Americans could catch up was to cut corners...and try to come in at a certain price. That is going to ruin your business right there.
You can't really compare a 20 year old Zenith TV to a new LCD or Plasma TV. Zenith, RCA, Sylvania and other American makes couldn't compete with the Asian technology and price.If it wasn't for the Asian invasian, we'd all be watching 20 year old technology Zeniths! And we would probably have Kodak disc cameras....don't tell me you are still using one of those too!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Logic, this is the first time I've seen you off your game. GM cars are as reliable as Asian cars? What study are you looking at? And the Cavalier, nuff said.
That fuel pump costs about $400 anywhere I've ever priced one, if you want the GM Delphi pump. You can get a Bosch for less..... That is the going rate for putting that pump in at a GM dealership, and I'm betting you have to drop the tank to do it, not open a hatch in the trunk.
I can vouch for the fact that the 2nd-gen Intrepid is pretty bad. I went from a 1989 Gran Fury to a 2000 Intrepid. Dimensionally, both cars are within inches of each other in length (about 203") wheelbase (about 113"), height (about 56") and width (about 74-75") With the Gran Fury though, you could see where the front of the car ended, as the fender tops had little ridges running along them, and the hood ornament was excellent for aiming. And even though the trunk sloped off, it had a low decklid and I could see almost where it ended. From the outside looking in, that car looked like it had massive C-pillars, but from the inside looking out they weren't that bad. Plus, the A- and B-pillars weren't that thick, and the height of the side windows was almost pickup truck-like. Also, I looked UP at the rearview mirror, not DOWN on it like with most modern cars.
With the Intrepid, unless I really lean forward I can't see anything up front beyond the windshield wiper nozzles on the hood. And the rear of the car beyond the back window is invisible to me. The A- and B-pillars are much larger, and with the A-pillar sloping more, that's all the much more view that it obscures. And the combination of C-pillar, rear door window frame, and the little blackout spacer that lets the rear window roll down a bit more than if glass occupied the whole area, there's enough blind spot to hide a school bus (and not a short one, either! :P )
Still, it's one of those things you get used to, I guess. The car is also extremely tapered, both front and rear, whereas the Gran Fury was much more blunt. So in parallel parking situations you could cut it much more tightly, with more of an egg-shaped, as opposed to brick-shaped "footprint".
I remember my Granddad liking my Intrepid when he first bought it, and he thought that maybe he should get one. Considering that he was getting a bit innacurate with aiming his '94 Taurus, I told him that something like this probably wouldn't be a good idea! :surprise:
When my buddy was car shopping, I was actually kinda rooting for the Equinox. I'm sure he could have gotten a much better deal on one, although he got the Xterra for invoice. Still, I'm sure he could've gotten an Equinox for less, and it might've even had leather and a sunroof, two things you can't get on the Xterra. Also, he doesn't need a rugged truck, but more like he wanted it because it's "cool".
Still, I don't think the Equinox is a bad vehicle. And if they'd put a bit more effort into the engine, they would've had a real winner on their hands.
Sounds like lemko is channeling Precious Roy!
Back on topic. Nissan denied warranty work on my Sentra when the windsheild washer nozzles began to disintegrate. The car was one week out of warranty. I didn't whine and moan because it was out of warranty, but I dang sure won't buy another Nissan, and I'll be sure to tell everyone about it.
Losing customers for 40 bucks isn't very smart.
Bingo!!! And I know people, my wife included, who won't buy a 'nox because the engine is made in China.
Why don't they put the Honda motor in the 'nox like they do in the Vue?
The only way a manufacturer can do that is through warranties. I suppose they could set up a program where warranties are extended automatically after somehow reviewing the defect.
The problem with that is the manufacturers do not have any consumer venues, other than the dealer which may be the source of the problem.
Wrong.
HDTV. plasma and LCD are all US technologies. The patents are from US companies and licensed to the foreign manufacturers. RCA and Sylvania names were sold years ago. Zenith sold to LG about ten years ago.
US companies got out of the television manufacturing business not because of technology, but because the television manufacturing industry is not very profitable.
I go by JD Power, which puts GM slightly below Toy and Hon and above the other Japanese makes. Agree the Cavalier is not one of the reasons.
That fuel pump costs about $400 anywhere I've ever priced one, if you want the GM Delphi pump. You can get a Bosch for less..... That is the going rate for putting that pump in at a GM dealership, and I'm betting you have to drop the tank to do it, not open a hatch in the trunk.
The manufacturer can suggest the price. The dealer is free to charge more or less as it sees fit.
Am I the only one who thinks these numbers are wildly optimistic?
You think?
With gas prices at $3.00 a gallon the market is going to move to a format that provides precious little benefit and sucks up more gas? (and in fact, from a sporting perspective is a hinderance)
Why?