Wixom up to the last held up its bargain with America. Receiving the "Platinum Award" for excellence from J.D. Power.
I challenged, elsewhere, Ford Motor executives to explain what they would do the differentiate Lincoln from other Ford Motor products so that the public perception would not relegate Lincoln to what happened to Packard in 1957-58----becoming Studebakers and killng the brand.
What then IS quality???
What makes a car unique from its brethren even when it must necessarily share components and platforms from lessor vehicles?? How do we define the tactile sense of quality, one that lends itself above and beyond the mundane to afford ourselves the extra expenditure required to purchase it. Those qualities that we often lend the term: "otta have it"
Lincoln is now right up against that conundrum. They have to solve that equation in order to survive. Is it 1/15,000th of an inch or better in terms of bearing clearance in an engine? Is it the quality of the veneers, and the smoothness of the chromium to the touch??? The tactile senses versus the performance curve????
What makes one car so very much better from the next Honda or Corolla...those are the questions that the engineers and build/production men must solve.
True when Henry M. Leland put his first wrench to a Cadillac after the departure of Henry Ford, and true again when he departed GM to establish Lincoln. And true evenso, when William C. Ford Sr. led the charge at the Continental Division building the Mark II.
If we to lift ourselves up from the dirt, then the degree of our quality manufacture is but one symbol of it. And in our nation, why not that Lincoln should lead that charge, as leader of one of the largest industrial combines in our nations' history?
What is wrong with that old notion?
Thus we now have the 'Platinum Blues' where independent opinion has labelled Wixom yet again, home of just such a goal, now dormant and gone.
I do not now, nor will ever aspire to, a Hyundai "Supreme Imperial Deluxe" sedan---replete with extended warranty and chromium plate.
So where then does that leave us with Lincoln?
Mr. Horbury, Mr. Mulally, and the ascent of Mr. Ford are all that remains between the future and the epitaph of Lincoln.
But it is far more than a name or a brand at stake.
...Lincoln beat out BMW and Lexus by TWO defects per car to claim the top quality spot world-wide at Wixom. Yes, Wixom.
...now for the bright news: Lincoln moved up THIRD worldwide in quality as a brand against very tough competition, and Ford Motor topped Toyota in many catagories within the top ten rankings. Three Lincolns all made the top rankings within the J.D. Power Quality assessments.
...so Lincoln still knows how to bolt together a car...according to independent sources. St. Thomas will have to improve upon Wixom, and that is a tough act to follow.
What will Ford Motor say when the business and automotive press ask why Ford closed Wixom in the face of number one rankings worldwide, when Town Car is still going to be built in St. Thomas?? Why move production of the car at all???
Unless, of course, Wixom is being saved for a new line of Lincolns, and the factory has to be reconfigured entirely to build it...
Packard was able to switch its assembly lines from East Grand Boulevard to Conner Avenue in 1955 in record time, building the last '54 September 15, 1954 and completing the new line October 17th and building the first '55 November 1, a change-over of roughly two months between the last '54 and the first '55. Quality was not upheld between the two plants, defects per car rising to the point that effectively killed Packard, nor was production capacity maintained with half as many cars able to be produced by the same number of workers....hopefully this will not befall Lincoln as it moves to St. Thomas.
Thus it is possible that the "idled" Wixom plant is being saved for the future Lincoln that won't be off the drawing/computer boards for another 18-24 months. And in so doing the engineers are designing the factory floor along with each part to dovetail into another level of manufacturing quality and ergonomic "takt" time proficiency.
Meantime, the Platinum Blues are playing at Wixom.
DouglasR
(Sources: Packard, Beverly Rae Kimes, Automobile Quarterly 2002)
"so Lincoln still knows how to bolt together a car
Well damnit - after bolting the same car together for ten years, the V.I. could learn after assemblying 1998, 1999,2000,2001,2002,2003,2004,2005,2006,and 2007.
Until Town Car separates itself from the Victoria and Marquis with higher quality, more powerful engine, & IRS, why buy it no matter it's birth location?
Ford Motor finally admitting that the Nasser Gambit is over, has put the Big Cat on the block with Land-Rover. Land-Rover makes money, the Big Cat cost Lincoln its Number One position in the market-place, all the development money going to the "Cat-Box" instead of Wixom and Lincoln.
$6.5Bn at a minimum has been invested in Jaguar, and the losses greater than that, not only in dollar terms, but opportunity cost. Great Lincolns and Continentals, not to mention a wholly new range of cars could have been made.
I digress. Mr. Horbury is now laboring mightily to meet ARM's July deadline for next generation rear-wheel-drive/all-wheel-drive Lincolns. The Bosch Diesel CRD technology has also been proven in prototype Chrysler 300's to deliver 41 mpg, so Ford Motor and Lincoln have their work cut out for them.
Wixom, now being torn up to move production to St. Thomas, has the chance for an "open door" to a new platform and a new range of cars carrying the Lincoln label. And a platform that could be built in any of the major plants across the globe, especially if Ford Motor went to China and began CKD assembly on the mainland as Cadillac and Chrysler have.
VWAG is also now using new build technology from Fronius GmBh for CMT, Cold Metal Transfer Welding, that allows a tighter bodyshell to be built with less metal shrinkage and defects, and lower post-weld finishing, at their Mosel plant that makes bodyshells for Bentley. Just as Lincoln lead worldwide with the adaption of the Behr paint system in 1964, Lincoln could lead again by defining new manufacturing standards in the next generation of cars.
So that perspective buyers will be surprised when they open and close a door on a new higher content Lincoln. The "Wow" effect has to be there. Now that Lincoln scored top three hits on the J.D. Powers Index, the possibility exists that a new level of build quality could be introduced---just at the moment people are returning to look at Lincoln.
That is the next challenge for Horbury, ARM, and Mr. Ford at Lincoln.
You have a gift for expression - and your meloncholy pieces of data re; Lincoln are very accurate indeed.
I'm most dismayed, though not surprised, that Jaguar/LandRover are now for sale... I was hoping they could turn Jag around finally, and reap some of that investment back. Plus, Ford owning them, gave them considerable foreign cache here. Also, Ford made Jaguar and Land Rover SUCH better cars, the comparison is impossible to explain. Yet, they got precious little credit for that. But those of us who remember the quality (if I can use that word) of an 84 XJ6, appreciate what Ford did for them.
Also, Ford made Jaguar and Land Rover SUCH better cars, the comparison is impossible to explain
Tell that to some of the people at the big range rover board. There is this huge thread there with half of them saying how bad ford has made Land Rover and how much better Land Rover was before ford owned it. :surprise:
Plenty of people saying they hope BMW buys it back. NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN.
Do these people not remember Land Rovers from the 1990s or even the early 2000s? I was just joking with one of my co-workers today that you can't really fix an old Land Rover the best you can hope for is to let it die with dignity. We should give it compassion care and instead of calling the shop a repair shop call it a hospice.
Tell that to some of the people at the big range rover board. There is this huge thread there with half of them saying how bad ford has made Land Rover and how much better Land Rover was before ford owned it.
I know - and Rover is not yet reliable, but c'mon, sit in a Range now, and sit in one from 97, and tell me it hasn't been greatly improved in design? Given time, quality would come up. I'm sure of it - but alas, there may be no more time.
I think it is a shame for Ford to throw in the towel on Jag - particularly with all of the positive things they have already done with quality. The upcoming XF looks like it could really be a hit. The rumors about the restyled XJ due in 2010 sound positive as well. The XK gets great reviews.
Jag will never be a high volume seller but it sure seems a good fit at the top of the Ford food chain. Even if Lincoln finally gets their act together with a competitive American luxury car in the $50,000 range, there is still plenty of room for Jag higher up the scale.
I am OK with the sale if Ford really rebuilds Lincoln into an American Luxury brand worth aspiring to - but as Douglas so eloquently points out, the clock is ticking. If Ford is content just to be a truck and lower-end family car company, I am done with them.
BMW buying back Land Rover would be like a guy taking back his beautiful but emotionally disturbed girlfriend after a long break-up.
Those who think Ford has been bad to either Jaguar or Land Rover forgot about when they were under the British Leyland umbrella. Did they do anything right?
Ford improved Jaguar quality (that used to be an oxymoron) a huge amount. Unfortunately, they also tried to copy Jaguar styling in issuing new sedans, but all they managed to do was excise the grace of the old things, and put Jaguar cues on relatively boring bodies (XJ, S Type, X-Type).
The XK is pretty and has Jaguar-ness, and the proposed XF looks like a stunner. The new XJ, if it ever arrives, also has both innovation and "catness" about it. It would be Ford's fate to lose billions on this company and then see it soar after selling it.
Maybe I am missing something, but you refer to a new XJ around 2010...that is a full 3 years from now, and in those 3 years, I would guess that half of the automakers will be upgrading/freshening most of their model lines...
That just seems like forever if they are waiting for jag to add profits to Ford's bottom line...a few bad years and Ford is a footnote in history, 2010 is forever...
Jag must remain an exclusive, top tier brand to be successful. The X type was a disaster not from a vehicle standpoint but from a brand marketing perspective. There was even a plan at one point to make every Jag supercharged (mild for the base models, wild for the R models) but that was killed.
The problem is Jag has too much overhead for such a low volume brand (which is probably why Ford tried to increase sales with the X type).
I think not having Jag in the fold will certainly open up the door for Lincoln to move back upmarket - something they weren't allowed to do with the LS.
I don't know for sure when the restyled XJ is due. Yes, 2010 is a long way off but other than the MKS, Lincoln will not have anything upscale any sooner than that even with a shot of cash from a Jag sale. The XF, due next spring looks very promising.
I agree with Akirby that the sale could mean good things for Lincoln but it will take some time. Meanwhile, my dealer continues to advertise new MKZ's for $25,995. They also sell Fords so the same salesperson who sells Focus' and Rangers is selling $26,000 Lincolns. Lincoln has a long way to go to become a luxury marque again.
Unfortunately, they also tried to copy Jaguar styling in issuing new sedans, but all they managed to do was excise the grace of the old things, and put Jaguar cues on relatively boring bodies (XJ, S Type, X-Type).
Very true. The pre-2004 XJ long wheelbase was unique and beautiful. The 2004 and later versions are vastly superior in every way except styling - they look frumpy. Get past the frumpy looks and they are great cars, though. I believe it was C & D who said the combination of ride/handling may be better than Lexus, BMW, or Mercedes. All the XJ needs is a new body and a bit more standard HP and they would be near best in class overall.
The S-type was recognized as being quite stylish in 1999. Like the Lincoln LS, they had a few early issues and by the time they worked those out and made solid mechanical improvements, the styling was stale.
The X-type looked like a miniature XJ (not a good thing) and had little or none of the goodness or cache of its big brother. It struck me as a loser from the beginning.
Another thing that I think has hurt Jag is the constant rumors that it is for sale. I wouldn't drop $75k on a brand whose future is so uncertain. With the current XK, the upcoming XF, and the rumored changes to the XJ, I think they are on track product-wise. I wish Ford would decide once and for all that Jag needs to stay under the Blue Oval umbrella with the XF, XJ, and XK covering the $50 - $100,000 price range.
"This would leave Ford without a presence in the market for high-end motoring..." The BBC World News stated in an article by Jan Madslein about the Jaguar-Land-Rover sale. Cerberus Capital Management and Blackstone are bidders for the "Cat Box" at Ford Motor. Chrysler aquiring JLR would be a risky but also a reminiscent moment: similar to that of Walter P. Chrysler when he acquired Dodge at a firesale price and established DeSoto at the same time. Whether it would work any better for Chrysler than Ford is certainly debatable. As Labour & Manufacturing MP, Lord Bhattacharya said in Pariliament: "If Ford could not make Jaguar profitable, how can private equity..." Indeed!
But the public perception remains worldwide that without Jaguar, (and Astons) Ford has no "presence" in the high end market, Lincoln having been sorely neglected at the hand of the Big Cat. Not only does the team at the Glass House have to rebuild the brand from the ground up, they have to change public perception too...for Lincoln will inevitably have to be sold outside the U.S. at some point to compete against Cadillac, Buick, BMW, Mercedes, et.al.
According to the Federal Trade Commission, Ford Motor lost $10Mn between 1926-1935 selling Lincoln L and K chassis...keeping the brand as a loss leader. Something that Ford Motor can't afford to do in the modern era. Three of its products are successful and profitable, but the future platforms can't afford to fail...Lincoln and Ford Motor do not have the margin of error that they once enjoyed. The Firestone Tire Fiasco cost Ford more than just an inconvenient recall...it was all down-hill from there. Until today...with Ford surpassing Toyota in consumer quality indexes. That certainly has to count on one hand for more than just sales, but now they need them.
Two-Fifths of the 50 or so members comprising the descendants of Henry Ford, "The Ford Family", are wanting to cash in their chips, take their money and depart. Being that Ford stock has been stuck at $8.50 for several years, and the last roll of the dice for Ford is at hand, one can see the vote of no confidence in Bill Ford Jr. coming from his family, especially with no common stock dividend paid out. However, unlike to Firestone tire fiasco (and remember William C. Ford Sr. married a Firestone...) which could be patched up and fixed, an exodous of Ford Family members selling their shares and removing the Family hold on the voting rights would have catastrophic consquences for the company in the public eye. Any chance to revive Ford Motor, much less Lincoln would probably suffer irreversible consequences---unless the shares were sold en bloc to a single investor allied with remaining Ford Family members---banks likely would not extend any more credit to Ford Motor, and they certainly would have trouble selling their bonds.
Thus...the clock has moved closer to midnight. J.D. Powers is the one ray of hope that might put-paid to public perception about Ford and its products. If High End Motoring is ever to remain at Ford, it must do so with Lincoln---becoming the talisman for the firm and the family---putting even greater pressure on Mr. Horbury and ARM.
DouglasR
P.S., N.V.B.: I very much appreciate your praise for my words...and extend a kind thanks for your remarks.
(Sources: Ford Motor Company; Federal Trade Commission Report on the Motor Industry 76th Congress, Document 468, U.S. Government, 1939; Automotive News; WSJ; FT; BBC World News)
sells its shares, then Ford will be relegated to the trash heap of history with Oldsmobile and Plymouth...
I question your comment about JD Powers and Ford...while a rotten JD rating could spell doom quicker, a great rating will not overcome an ugly product that no one wants...
Example: If JD had been around back in the days of the AMC Gremlin and Pacer, a JD rating of A+++++++++++++ would not have added one vehicle sale, IMO...
And, I apologize for bring up such an ugly part of automotive history...:):):):):)
It's really good to see all the posts here. Lincoln is indeed alive and well and with a little luck will have a bright future. Amusing, this week my Town Car developed a rattle outside the car, I took to the local dealership and the tech went out with me to check the sound, he was as stumped as I was so took the car in to the service Dept. to Check the car out. To both our surprise it was the rattling of the rear license plate frame, he was even kind enough to put some tape under the plate, when I asked how much was told I was good to go, I sent them a thank you note and told them I would mention to my friends and neighbors. Just bought new Cadillac DTS, so far have had an electrical system problem, resolved with a new battery at my request. Also has a rattle on the drivers side of the passenger compartment that goes away after the car has been in motion for about a half hour, think it's temperature related, not resolved. In summary one 2005 Town Car, one loose license plate frame, One 2006 DTS bought new recently, multiple problems not all resolved yet. Go Lincoln!
According to Autoweek the reason why Ford wants selling JLR is commitment to new huge investments in billions(again) to come up with new line up for both brands to be competitive in luxury car market. And there is no reason to believe that Ford will get its money back since British marques never were profitable. So Ford needs to make decision very soon about throwing more money into JLR or letting them go. If it does not sell JLR - there will be no money for core brands. Ford cannot continue wasting billions on brands which will continue be unprofitable with 90% probability.
Therefore JLR must go ASAP. I am 100% sure about. I will increase chances of Ford survival considerably because not only Ford will save billions but it will also get additional 6-7 billion dollars from sale
It is more than 6-7 bln. because you have to consider Ford will saving another 4-5 bln simply not throwing it into JLR. Ford may be 10-12 billion ahead if sells JLR and it is almost have of debt. This kind of money is enough to turn around Lincoln, Mercury and Ford combined. Needles to say that unlike JLR FLM can be profitable.
Land Rover is profitable, a couple of sources figure around a billion a year, but Jaguar is in such sad shape that Ford will have to include LR just to get rid of Jag.
Both firms are very niche brands. Their combined worldwide volume is less then 300,000 I think. They need a larger parent company to help share development costs.
I sense a dying breed here..... Personally, I mourn the loss of JLR at Ford - I thought they were a good move at the time Nasser bought them, and Ford has done a lot for Jag. But clearly, Ford can't afford them any longer, and they should have been sold years ago.
It does not matter if LR is profitable now or not. It was not profitable for very long time and may become unprofitable pretty soon again. Just like Chrysler. And still Ford must to throw billions into LR right now to keep it afloat. So best thing is to get rid of it.
JLR are certainly no MB, BMW or Lexus. It is proven that they are not money makers. Ford better concentrates its efforts of Lincoln alone and move it up as a global luxury marque. It can use technologies developed for Jaguar to develop real Lincolns.
Cerberus can buy JLR, strip it and make it luxury brand for Chrysler. Packard also was making fine cars as well as many other luxury marques which disappeared because of lack of resources and quicker competitors.
I would also ditch Lincoln over Jaguar, but also realize NO ONE would buy the Lincoln brand.
Ford did wonders for Jaguar quality, but shot itself in the foot with the LOOONG product cycles and timid restylings. If Ford unloads JLR and then Volvo, they are left with their clone divisions of Ford, Mercury and Lincoln, and little-better-than-niche marketer Mazda. And they only own around 33% of Mazda, AND Mazdas are becoming little different from Fords anyway.
Ford invested billions and billions in Jaguar since the late 80's. Ford almost killed Lincoln over it. The XF looks like it could be the first hot selling Jag. So let Cererus have it now at a fire sale price?
Meanwhile, the European Fords (still not engineered to be sold here) are getting nothing but accolades. This has been such a bumbling disorganized company these past 10 years (to the advantage of Euro-Ford, which went its own way and had a clue about it).
Ford and Lincoln are at a disadvantage now, with all the competition as good as it is. Good efforts like the MKZ are not nearly good enough, given the realities of the market now. I fear that the MKS will also be a good machine, but not enough ahead of the pack to help Lincoln in regaining much market share.
The company needs bold, innovative, excitingly styled and luxurious products. They aren't going to come on line much faster by unloading Jaguar now. Maybe fate will step in and force Ford to keep it (because no one wants it), and then those high paid "saviors" will really have to show their stuff.
Amazingly silly statement. What IS Lincoln? Nothing but redesigned Fords and Mazdas and Volvos. It is nothing, has no value, how could Ford sell it?
Exactly my point.
It just sailed over your head. Lincoln has essentially no value at all. You would have to pay someone to take it off your hands and you couldn't even bundle something worth while with it as an incentive.
I will say it again Ford would be better off by...
1. Hanging onto their remaining Euro divisions 2. Collapsing Ford to Just the Mustang, F-Series, small car, mid-size car i.e Value brand 3. Bring over expensive Euro Fords as Lincolns or Mercuries 4. Kill whichever brand doesn't get the Euro Fords
Forget any and all Euro products. Sell the Eurocars and reinvest the sale proceeds into revitalizing Ford, Mercury and Lincoln with agressive marketing, new designs, & improved engineering quality. "Made in North America by North Americans for North Americans" thus keeping the $$$$ on this side of the Pond. Airbus is hurting and so should the Eurocar.
I appreciate the heritage and mystique of Jaguar and Land Rover as much as anyone. However, Ford in its hubris squandered billions of dollars on marques that, despite recent improvements and promise of future improvements, still aren't making them any or much money. Sell the Cat and Land Rover, and plow the money into restoring Lincoln's fortunes. Sure, Lincoln doesn't carry much cache now, but it once did, neither does Jaguar now. Freed of the millstone that is Jaguar, Lincoln can be reshaped into a significant marque once again.
Putting fantasies aside – Jaguar has no value or even worse – negative value. It is perennial loser for almost all its life and tries to sell outdated design as brand new models therefore no way it can compete with Germans and Japanese luxury cars. Jaguar cars should be discounted and sold for much less than they try to sell now. Production has to be moved in USA. And considering the production volume and expensive design – it will continue to drop in sales as stone.
Realistically Ford has to pay money to someone to take away Jaguar, even with LR (like Daimler did with Chrysler). The fact is that all major manufacturers refused to take Jaguar and LR at any price.
Other option is just kill it and sell land occupied by offices and plants - at list it will bring some money. And then sale Jaguar logo to Chinese company what actually happened with Rover.
Revitalize Lincoln and Mercury how? They are the two most lost brands in the US. They have ZERO international presence and none of their products are unique.
Unless Ford wants to be a US only automaker, which would probably be a death sentence for it, one of them needs to go.
Ford isn't going to have to pay someone for them to take Jag and LR off their hands. With LR included with Jag most estimates put them getting a couple of billion for both companies. When you think about what they paid for both companies that is a technically a loss but those are SUNK costs. You cannot recover that money it is gone.
I repeat:"revitalizing Ford, Mercury and Lincoln with agressive marketing, new designs, & improved engineering quality.
Improve the Ford/Mercury by sharing costs of construction, but limiting the Crown Victoria to the 4.6 engine with SOHC, the Merc Grand Marquis would have the 4.6 with DOHC engine option and the Lincoln Town Car would be limited to the 5.4 engine. The AOD transmissions would be all the same 6 speeds. Ford/Mercury sharing same drive lines, wheels, & glass, but upscale the front and rear of the Mercury. The Town Car would be incorporating a lot of Mercury components, but in addition have a longer frame, body, & IRS.
Apply the same techniques as outlined above to the lesser/smaller issues of each brand as needed. Mercury's Cougar would not resemble the Mustang though.
The secret to selling is agressive marketing techniques with a large dealer network, educated sales staff, and the commercial advertising to whet your appetite for the sale.
Most needed is the hard working, long hours sales persons in each dealership all on Commission only pay basis.
There are many other suggestions, but space doesn't alllow them here, however, you get my gist.
Improve the Ford/Mercury by sharing costs of construction... Doesn't offer much of a solution. First of all, that's what they already do. Secondly, you cannot create real differentiation among what are essentially the same cars by putting slightly in different hp, when the competition often offers several engine hp choices in each model. A Mustang is a Mustang whether it is a 6 cylinder or a 600 hp special model. Third, the CV, GM and TC are old, old, old designs that even back in 1998 looked rather silly with new front and rear clips on their 1991 era big car styling (big long boats teetering on wheelbases 6" shorter than on the Chrysler 300).
I have no idea what the answer is--and obviously Ford doesn't either--but to leave the company with onlly Ford, "ersatz Ford" Mercury, and mishmash "fancy Ford" Lincoln may mean that Ford will then have to be swallowed by someone else to survive.
And ditching EuroFord makes no sense either, as they seem to be the bright spot among the true Fords. Build 'em here.
As DouglasR is wont to point out, there used to be a place where Lincolns were made. That is no more. Now they make all three siblings in same factories. The experiences of one buyer who used to post on this board ell us what we need to know about Ford's ability to co-manufacture. He bought a nice, expensive Aviator a few years ago. Had lots of trouble with the drivetrain. He finally found out that the factory had put the Aviator engine in, but the Explorer drivetrain. Unbelieveable but true. There are so many people who wont buy American cars now that all this talk may be too little too late. Ask yourselves this - just what could Ford do to their cars to get these America haters into the showroom? Stressing the connection that Mazda and Volvo now have with Ford might help/ Like - "buy a Mercury, it's really not a Mercury, it's a Mazda so you can trust it." Or "This Lincoln is really last years' Volvo so its really not an American car." But in truth, there is no answer to this. These people are gone. The rest are the total of Ford GM and maybe Chrysler's market share which totals to what maybe 60% That's the total that Ford can go after now. Anr it's shrinks evertime someone buys a Lincoln that has the wrong transmission installed at the factory. But keep LR out of the mix. It was a terrible mistake to buy that company in the first place. LR has traditionally been for people who have far more money than brains and enjoy making excuses for why their British car is in the shop more often than not. BMW learned that the hard way. The fact that the racist Nasser thought Ford could pick up where BMW failed is a testament to his genius - NOT.
You don't have any clue what you are talking about.
Ford did succeed where BMW failed. Land Rover has hit global sales records for the past three years now and should do it again this year.
The quality of all the products is way, way up and the new LR2 has been flawless.
Land Rover was the only SUV brand to see increased sales in a decreasing market last year.
So tell me again how they are failing?
At one point I thought Lincoln could be salvaged. It could be reborn from its ashes like Caddy was. I don't think they can now. If ford ends up with just Ford, Lincoln, and Mercury then I think we can basically right them off as a world contender. Lincoln and Mercury have ZERO presence outside the North American market. SO that leaves Ford to do battle outside the US. That is not going to work.
Personally, I couldn't care less about manufacturing something to make the Europeons like us. They are little people driving little cars on little roads with big petrol costs. It would be stupid of them to want a V8 Ford product.
Ford's challenge is to market their V8 products in North America where there is plenty of potential buyers for such cars. Just build and sell vehicles that compete with the big Mercedes and Lexus to win those buyers back to American made.
Obviously, ARM believes it can be done or he would have remained at Boeing. All it will take is Inspiration, Inovation, & Improvements. The overseas market is not needed if you saturate the N American market with high quality American V8's.
I can hardly believe that Toyota can succeed with Lexus worldwide while Ford cannot with Lincoln. Lincoln is known around world for much longer than Lexus. Potentially Ford can make better Lincoln's than Toyota Lexuses. Only thing required from Ford is a sheer power of will and trust to its own brands. Buying existing brand in most cases does not help. Grow should be organic.
Jaguar can do better without Ford's cost cutting philosophy. Germans are profitable because they don't save money on engineering and therefore can sell cars for more.
Ford did wonders with the quality of both Jag and Land Rover. With Jag, their only mistake was product cycles too long and no new styling on the big cat. It's really a wonderful machine - but it looks so old....the cache for the old Jag is wearing out.
But the thing is - Ford needs money, or there will be no Ford. ARM is turning the ship around, but it's a big ship and it turns fast. He has no choice but to stop the bleeding at Jag, despite what has been lost, and use the money from the sale to support what is left of Ford, and that may only be Ford when the company is done. But frankly, Ford is the most honest product they have, and if that's all that is left, no Lincoln/Mercury division anymore, it may be the only way they can survive. It will be interesting to watch.
I had two Lincoln Navigators - both excellent trucks. I now have an Escalade - which is only superior in a couple of ways - the seats for one. But as a performer, the Navigators outperformed, outrode, out maneuvered this truck by miles. Ford builds a better, more advanced truck by my comparison.
But they have only really revised the Navigator once, in 03. It's so stale, and the remington shaver front end just offends me to no end. I can't drive one of those. Just can't.
The MKX is as ugly as can be as well. The Edge doesn't look so bad, being a Ford, and a tricked up Edge is sort of appealing to me. But the MKX is just awful, despite a pretty nice cabin.
The MKZ is getting great reviews - but it is afterall, a Mazda 6 under there, and it's way too small for a Lincoln IMO. Lincolns should be bigger than Fords, and more powerful, IMO.
So Ford may be all that survives. If that's the case, and they can make money, regardless of the size of the company, and they make superior product, as they do in trucks, IMO, that may be what it's going to be.
Personally, I couldn't care less about manufacturing something to make the Europeons like us. They are little people driving little cars on little roads with big petrol costs. It would be stupid of them to want a V8 Ford product.
This statement is just full of ignorance. Fuel prices will continue to rise and I wouldn't be surprised if our fuel prices start to more closely match Europe's.
If you think a large multinational corporation can survive without Europe, or the rest of the world for that matter, then you are as deluded as the Isolationists before WWI and WWII.
China will become the largest market for new vehicles in the next few years. GM has managed to make Buick a popular brand in China and Lincoln is no where to be seen.
Europe is still a huge market for new cars. It is not as large as North America or as large is China will be in a few years but it is still a significant market.
Saturating North America with high quality American V8s is not going to save Ford. Having a few good niche mid-sized and full sized V8 powered cars will be good but you need a full line up of cars. The premium small car market is exploding and Ford the only thing Ford has is the Volvo C30.
"Lincoln had a chance with the LS to establish a beach head in the luxury performance segment. They were ahead of Cadillac . . ."
Yup.
I discovered this board only today, but your post certainly reflects my thoughts & feelings. I have an LS. I'll never own another Ford product. I'm confident they don't care.
Let's see: Lincoln, Land Rover & Jaguar -- who knows which other brands will bite the dust as FoMoCo tries to figure out which of its orifices excrete and which don't.
Oh boy. I came to my Ford experience a bit over seven years ago, and it's been a real trip.
You just don't get it. You seem to think the overseas markets are essential to American manufacturers of vehicles. Hah!
It's not isolationist to focus on selling to just North American buyers, however, if the foreigners want our future and superior products, they can buy them, but let's not cater to them as they won't fit into our larger cars.
So Buick is in China -GM can have that market.
Now, try to understand the concept of a smaller Ford Company selling fewer cars to just N American customers and making more profit per car in doing so. We shareholders are more interested in our appreciating investments than our likeability quotient with foreigners.
A company can't be all things to all peoples. North America has the possibility of being the niche market for FoMoCo.
Do you have any idea how many cars Ford sells in Europe? Or how quickly Ford would go bankrupt if it did not sell cars there? It is not a stretch to say Ford of Europe is helping keep the company afloat, since they're actually making money (and building very good cars).
Your view of the auto industry is understandable given its heritage, but just building Detroit iron would be suicide. A multinational car company able to share components, assemblies and technology across many geographies and hundreds of thousands of units (e.g. Toyota) is going to squash anybody who can't play that game. There are still bastions where Detroit rules (I don't think an Asian manufacturer will ever rule in pickups!) but the sad truth is that the American car market is NOT growing. And if you're an investor, the first thing you're going to look for is growth. The domestic manufacturers made a lot of money on big margins on SUV's and trucks in the 90's but those days gone and they are never coming back.
I'd also note this: American car buyers are not going to spring for sedans with V8 engines in any large numbers. The car companies aren't building those cars in great numbers because they know the market is small. (I guarantee you that you'll have no problem buying any car with a Hemi under invoice if you look around. The Ford Fusion is doing much better in comparison.)
As for Lincoln, Ford really can't afford to build a new luxury car platform (or assemble it), so they do what they can. I'm guessing a RWD full-size car platform from Ford will never see the light of day.
A company can't be all things to all peoples. North America has the possibility of being the niche market for FoMoCo
But as a full line manufacturer that is what you are supposed to be. :surprise:
The overseas market are essential to North American brands. The US market is not going to have huge year over year growth anymore. The only ways a company is going to see big, read double digit, sales increases is to steal market share from another company or expand into developing markets.
Both cost big money but if you already have the distribution network set up in a foreign market it costs less to get sales there then to fight for sales in a mature market. Now you turn around and use those profits to improve your domestic line of vehicles and be more competitive.
The problem with Lincoln is simple - they were first relegated to 2nd tier status behind Jag who tried to move downmarket. Then they were ignored like a red headed stepchild (translation - no funding).
Now they're simply caught without a viable large RWD platform. They'd build the Interceptor and MKR today if they had the platform, but they don't. I'm confident they're working on one (most probably a jointly designed Aussie platform) but it won't be here for a couple of years at least. They're just victims of poor platform planning and Mulally seems to be fixing that problem.
The MKS should be a good intermediate step. Lincoln didn't lose their way overnight and they won't find their way back overnight either.
Comments
I challenged, elsewhere, Ford Motor executives to explain what they would do the differentiate Lincoln from other Ford Motor products so that the public perception would not relegate Lincoln to what happened to Packard in 1957-58----becoming Studebakers and killng the brand.
What then IS quality???
What makes a car unique from its brethren even when it must necessarily share components and platforms from lessor vehicles?? How do we define the tactile sense of quality, one that lends itself above and beyond the mundane to afford ourselves the extra expenditure required to purchase it. Those qualities that we often lend the term: "otta have it"
Lincoln is now right up against that conundrum. They have to solve that equation in order to survive. Is it 1/15,000th of an inch or better in terms of bearing clearance in an engine? Is it the quality of the veneers, and the smoothness of the chromium to the touch??? The tactile senses versus the performance curve????
What makes one car so very much better from the next Honda or Corolla...those are the questions that the engineers and build/production men must solve.
True when Henry M. Leland put his first wrench to a Cadillac after the departure of Henry Ford, and true again when he departed GM to establish Lincoln. And true evenso, when William C. Ford Sr. led the charge at the Continental Division building the Mark II.
If we to lift ourselves up from the dirt, then the degree of our quality manufacture is but one symbol of it. And in our nation, why not that Lincoln should lead that charge, as leader of one of the largest industrial combines in our nations' history?
What is wrong with that old notion?
Thus we now have the 'Platinum Blues' where independent opinion has labelled Wixom yet again, home of just such a goal, now dormant and gone.
I do not now, nor will ever aspire to, a Hyundai "Supreme Imperial Deluxe" sedan---replete with extended warranty and chromium plate.
So where then does that leave us with Lincoln?
Mr. Horbury, Mr. Mulally, and the ascent of Mr. Ford are all that remains between the future and the epitaph of Lincoln.
But it is far more than a name or a brand at stake.
DouglasR
...now for the bright news: Lincoln moved up THIRD worldwide in quality as a brand against very tough competition, and Ford Motor topped Toyota in many catagories within the top ten rankings. Three Lincolns all made the top rankings within the J.D. Power Quality assessments.
...so Lincoln still knows how to bolt together a car...according to independent sources. St. Thomas will have to improve upon Wixom, and that is a tough act to follow.
What will Ford Motor say when the business and automotive press ask why Ford closed Wixom in the face of number one rankings worldwide, when Town Car is still going to be built in St. Thomas?? Why move production of the car at all???
Unless, of course, Wixom is being saved for a new line of Lincolns, and the factory has to be reconfigured entirely to build it...
Packard was able to switch its assembly lines from East Grand Boulevard to Conner Avenue in 1955 in record time, building the last '54 September 15, 1954 and completing the new line October 17th and building the first '55 November 1, a change-over of roughly two months between the last '54 and the first '55. Quality was not upheld between the two plants, defects per car rising to the point that effectively killed Packard, nor was production capacity maintained with half as many cars able to be produced by the same number of workers....hopefully this will not befall Lincoln as it moves to St. Thomas.
Thus it is possible that the "idled" Wixom plant is being saved for the future Lincoln that won't be off the drawing/computer boards for another 18-24 months. And in so doing the engineers are designing the factory floor along with each part to dovetail into another level of manufacturing quality and ergonomic "takt" time proficiency.
Meantime, the Platinum Blues are playing at Wixom.
DouglasR
(Sources: Packard, Beverly Rae Kimes, Automobile Quarterly 2002)
Well damnit - after bolting the same car together for ten years, the V.I. could learn after assemblying 1998, 1999,2000,2001,2002,2003,2004,2005,2006,and 2007.
Until Town Car separates itself from the Victoria and Marquis with higher quality, more powerful engine, & IRS, why buy it no matter it's birth location?
$6.5Bn at a minimum has been invested in Jaguar, and the losses greater than that, not only in dollar terms, but opportunity cost. Great Lincolns and Continentals, not to mention a wholly new range of cars could have been made.
I digress. Mr. Horbury is now laboring mightily to meet ARM's July deadline for next generation rear-wheel-drive/all-wheel-drive Lincolns. The Bosch Diesel CRD technology has also been proven in prototype Chrysler 300's to deliver 41 mpg, so Ford Motor and Lincoln have their work cut out for them.
Wixom, now being torn up to move production to St. Thomas, has the chance for an "open door" to a new platform and a new range of cars carrying the Lincoln label. And a platform that could be built in any of the major plants across the globe, especially if Ford Motor went to China and began CKD assembly on the mainland as Cadillac and Chrysler have.
VWAG is also now using new build technology from Fronius GmBh for CMT, Cold Metal Transfer Welding, that allows a tighter bodyshell to be built with less metal shrinkage and defects, and lower post-weld finishing, at their Mosel plant that makes bodyshells for Bentley. Just as Lincoln lead worldwide with the adaption of the Behr paint system in 1964, Lincoln could lead again by defining new manufacturing standards in the next generation of cars.
So that perspective buyers will be surprised when they open and close a door on a new higher content Lincoln. The "Wow" effect has to be there. Now that Lincoln scored top three hits on the J.D. Powers Index, the possibility exists that a new level of build quality could be introduced---just at the moment people are returning to look at Lincoln.
That is the next challenge for Horbury, ARM, and Mr. Ford at Lincoln.
DouglasR
(Sources: VWAG; Fronius Gmbh; Bentley Motors Ltd.)
I'm most dismayed, though not surprised, that Jaguar/LandRover are now for sale... I was hoping they could turn Jag around finally, and reap some of that investment back. Plus, Ford owning them, gave them considerable foreign cache here. Also, Ford made Jaguar and Land Rover SUCH better cars, the comparison is impossible to explain. Yet, they got precious little credit for that. But those of us who remember the quality (if I can use that word) of an 84 XJ6, appreciate what Ford did for them.
Tell that to some of the people at the big range rover board. There is this huge thread there with half of them saying how bad ford has made Land Rover and how much better Land Rover was before ford owned it. :surprise:
Plenty of people saying they hope BMW buys it back. NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN.
Do these people not remember Land Rovers from the 1990s or even the early 2000s? I was just joking with one of my co-workers today that you can't really fix an old Land Rover the best you can hope for is to let it die with dignity. We should give it compassion care and instead of calling the shop a repair shop call it a hospice.
I know - and Rover is not yet reliable, but c'mon, sit in a Range now, and sit in one from 97, and tell me it hasn't been greatly improved in design? Given time, quality would come up. I'm sure of it - but alas, there may be no more time.
Jag will never be a high volume seller but it sure seems a good fit at the top of the Ford food chain. Even if Lincoln finally gets their act together with a competitive American luxury car in the $50,000 range, there is still plenty of room for Jag higher up the scale.
I am OK with the sale if Ford really rebuilds Lincoln into an American Luxury brand worth aspiring to - but as Douglas so eloquently points out, the clock is ticking. If Ford is content just to be a truck and lower-end family car company, I am done with them.
Those who think Ford has been bad to either Jaguar or Land Rover forgot about when they were under the British Leyland umbrella. Did they do anything right?
The XK is pretty and has Jaguar-ness, and the proposed XF looks like a stunner. The new XJ, if it ever arrives, also has both innovation and "catness" about it. It would be Ford's fate to lose billions on this company and then see it soar after selling it.
That just seems like forever if they are waiting for jag to add profits to Ford's bottom line...a few bad years and Ford is a footnote in history, 2010 is forever...
The problem is Jag has too much overhead for such a low volume brand (which is probably why Ford tried to increase sales with the X type).
I think not having Jag in the fold will certainly open up the door for Lincoln to move back upmarket - something they weren't allowed to do with the LS.
I agree with Akirby that the sale could mean good things for Lincoln but it will take some time. Meanwhile, my dealer continues to advertise new MKZ's for $25,995. They also sell Fords so the same salesperson who sells Focus' and Rangers is selling $26,000 Lincolns. Lincoln has a long way to go to become a luxury marque again.
Very true. The pre-2004 XJ long wheelbase was unique and beautiful. The 2004 and later versions are vastly superior in every way except styling - they look frumpy. Get past the frumpy looks and they are great cars, though. I believe it was C & D who said the combination of ride/handling may be better than Lexus, BMW, or Mercedes. All the XJ needs is a new body and a bit more standard HP and they would be near best in class overall.
The S-type was recognized as being quite stylish in 1999. Like the Lincoln LS, they had a few early issues and by the time they worked those out and made solid mechanical improvements, the styling was stale.
The X-type looked like a miniature XJ (not a good thing) and had little or none of the goodness or cache of its big brother. It struck me as a loser from the beginning.
Another thing that I think has hurt Jag is the constant rumors that it is for sale. I wouldn't drop $75k on a brand whose future is so uncertain. With the current XK, the upcoming XF, and the rumored changes to the XJ, I think they are on track product-wise. I wish Ford would decide once and for all that Jag needs to stay under the Blue Oval umbrella with the XF, XJ, and XK covering the $50 - $100,000 price range.
But the public perception remains worldwide that without Jaguar, (and Astons) Ford has no "presence" in the high end market, Lincoln having been sorely neglected at the hand of the Big Cat. Not only does the team at the Glass House have to rebuild the brand from the ground up, they have to change public perception too...for Lincoln will inevitably have to be sold outside the U.S. at some point to compete against Cadillac, Buick, BMW, Mercedes, et.al.
According to the Federal Trade Commission, Ford Motor lost $10Mn between 1926-1935 selling Lincoln L and K chassis...keeping the brand as a loss leader. Something that Ford Motor can't afford to do in the modern era. Three of its products are successful and profitable, but the future platforms can't afford to fail...Lincoln and Ford Motor do not have the margin of error that they once enjoyed. The Firestone Tire Fiasco cost Ford more than just an inconvenient recall...it was all down-hill from there. Until today...with Ford surpassing Toyota in consumer quality indexes. That certainly has to count on one hand for more than just sales, but now they need them.
Two-Fifths of the 50 or so members comprising the descendants of Henry Ford, "The Ford Family", are wanting to cash in their chips, take their money and depart. Being that Ford stock has been stuck at $8.50 for several years, and the last roll of the dice for Ford is at hand, one can see the vote of no confidence in Bill Ford Jr. coming from his family, especially with no common stock dividend paid out. However, unlike to Firestone tire fiasco (and remember William C. Ford Sr. married a Firestone...) which could be patched up and fixed, an exodous of Ford Family members selling their shares and removing the Family hold on the voting rights would have catastrophic consquences for the company in the public eye. Any chance to revive Ford Motor, much less Lincoln would probably suffer irreversible consequences---unless the shares were sold en bloc to a single investor allied with remaining Ford Family members---banks likely would not extend any more credit to Ford Motor, and they certainly would have trouble selling their bonds.
Thus...the clock has moved closer to midnight. J.D. Powers is the one ray of hope that might put-paid to public perception about Ford and its products. If High End Motoring is ever to remain at Ford, it must do so with Lincoln---becoming the talisman for the firm and the family---putting even greater pressure on Mr. Horbury and ARM.
DouglasR
P.S., N.V.B.: I very much appreciate your praise for my words...and extend a kind thanks for your remarks.
(Sources: Ford Motor Company; Federal Trade Commission Report on the Motor Industry 76th Congress, Document 468, U.S. Government, 1939; Automotive News; WSJ; FT; BBC World News)
I question your comment about JD Powers and Ford...while a rotten JD rating could spell doom quicker, a great rating will not overcome an ugly product that no one wants...
Example: If JD had been around back in the days of the AMC Gremlin and Pacer, a JD rating of A+++++++++++++ would not have added one vehicle sale, IMO...
And, I apologize for bring up such an ugly part of automotive history...:):):):):)
for about a half hour, think it's temperature related, not resolved. In summary one 2005 Town Car, one loose license plate frame, One 2006 DTS bought new recently, multiple problems not all resolved yet. Go Lincoln!
Therefore JLR must go ASAP. I am 100% sure about. I will increase chances of Ford survival considerably because not only Ford will save billions but it will also get additional 6-7 billion dollars from sale
I know 6-7 billion would help ME out a little...:):):)
Both firms are very niche brands. Their combined worldwide volume is less then 300,000 I think. They need a larger parent company to help share development costs.
JLR are certainly no MB, BMW or Lexus. It is proven that they are not money makers. Ford better concentrates its efforts of Lincoln alone and move it up as a global luxury marque. It can use technologies developed for Jaguar to develop real Lincolns.
Cerberus can buy JLR, strip it and make it luxury brand for Chrysler. Packard also was making fine cars as well as many other luxury marques which disappeared because of lack of resources and quicker competitors.
Jag at least still has unique models, brand equity and parts sharing with Land Rover to help both companies.
Amazingly silly statement. What IS Lincoln? Nothing but redesigned Fords and Mazdas and Volvos. It is nothing, has no value, how could Ford sell it?
Jag OTOH, is a brand of it's own, always has been and has actual intellectual property AND hardware including factories etc that go with it.
Ford did wonders for Jaguar quality, but shot itself in the foot with the LOOONG product cycles and timid restylings. If Ford unloads JLR and then Volvo, they are left with their clone divisions of Ford, Mercury and Lincoln, and little-better-than-niche marketer Mazda. And they only own around 33% of Mazda, AND Mazdas are becoming little different from Fords anyway.
Ford invested billions and billions in Jaguar since the late 80's. Ford almost killed Lincoln over it. The XF looks like it could be the first hot selling Jag. So let Cererus have it now at a fire sale price?
Meanwhile, the European Fords (still not engineered to be sold here) are getting nothing but accolades. This has been such a bumbling disorganized company these past 10 years (to the advantage of Euro-Ford, which went its own way and had a clue about it).
Ford and Lincoln are at a disadvantage now, with all the competition as good as it is. Good efforts like the MKZ are not nearly good enough, given the realities of the market now. I fear that the MKS will also be a good machine, but not enough ahead of the pack to help Lincoln in regaining much market share.
The company needs bold, innovative, excitingly styled and luxurious products. They aren't going to come on line much faster by unloading Jaguar now. Maybe fate will step in and force Ford to keep it (because no one wants it), and then those high paid "saviors" will really have to show their stuff.
Exactly my point.
It just sailed over your head. Lincoln has essentially no value at all. You would have to pay someone to take it off your hands and you couldn't even bundle something worth while with it as an incentive.
I will say it again Ford would be better off by...
1. Hanging onto their remaining Euro divisions
2. Collapsing Ford to Just the Mustang, F-Series, small car, mid-size car i.e Value brand
3. Bring over expensive Euro Fords as Lincolns or Mercuries
4. Kill whichever brand doesn't get the Euro Fords
Realistically Ford has to pay money to someone to take away Jaguar, even with LR (like Daimler did with Chrysler). The fact is that all major manufacturers refused to take Jaguar and LR at any price.
Other option is just kill it and sell land occupied by offices and plants - at list it will bring some money. And then sale Jaguar logo to Chinese company what actually happened with Rover.
Unless Ford wants to be a US only automaker, which would probably be a death sentence for it, one of them needs to go.
Ford isn't going to have to pay someone for them to take Jag and LR off their hands. With LR included with Jag most estimates put them getting a couple of billion for both companies. When you think about what they paid for both companies that is a technically a loss but those are SUNK costs. You cannot recover that money it is gone.
Improve the Ford/Mercury by sharing costs of construction, but limiting the Crown Victoria to the 4.6 engine with SOHC, the Merc Grand Marquis would have the 4.6 with DOHC engine option and the Lincoln Town Car would be limited to the 5.4 engine. The AOD transmissions would be all the same 6 speeds. Ford/Mercury sharing same drive lines, wheels, & glass, but upscale the front and rear of the Mercury. The Town Car would be incorporating a lot of Mercury components, but in addition have a longer frame, body, & IRS.
Apply the same techniques as outlined above to the lesser/smaller issues of each brand as needed. Mercury's Cougar would not resemble the Mustang though.
The secret to selling is agressive marketing techniques with a large dealer network, educated sales staff, and the commercial advertising to whet your appetite for the sale.
Most needed is the hard working, long hours sales persons in each dealership all on Commission only pay basis.
There are many other suggestions, but space doesn't alllow them here, however, you get my gist.
Doesn't offer much of a solution. First of all, that's what they already do. Secondly, you cannot create real differentiation among what are essentially the same cars by putting slightly in different hp, when the competition often offers several engine hp choices in each model. A Mustang is a Mustang whether it is a 6 cylinder or a 600 hp special model. Third, the CV, GM and TC are old, old, old designs that even back in 1998 looked rather silly with new front and rear clips on their 1991 era big car styling (big long boats teetering on wheelbases 6" shorter than on the Chrysler 300).
I have no idea what the answer is--and obviously Ford doesn't either--but to leave the company with onlly Ford, "ersatz Ford" Mercury, and mishmash "fancy Ford" Lincoln may mean that Ford will then have to be swallowed by someone else to survive.
And ditching EuroFord makes no sense either, as they seem to be the bright spot among the true Fords. Build 'em here.
There are so many people who wont buy American cars now that all this talk may be too little too late. Ask yourselves this - just what could Ford do to their cars to get these America haters into the showroom? Stressing the connection that Mazda and Volvo now have with Ford might help/ Like - "buy a Mercury, it's really not a Mercury, it's a Mazda so you can trust it." Or "This Lincoln is really last years' Volvo so its really not an American car."
But in truth, there is no answer to this. These people are gone. The rest are the total of Ford GM and maybe Chrysler's market share which totals to what maybe 60% That's the total that Ford can go after now. Anr it's shrinks evertime someone buys a Lincoln that has the wrong transmission installed at the factory.
But keep LR out of the mix. It was a terrible mistake to buy that company in the first place. LR has traditionally been for people who have far more money than brains and enjoy making excuses for why their British car is in the shop more often than not. BMW learned that the hard way. The fact that the racist Nasser thought Ford could pick up where BMW failed is a testament to his genius - NOT.
Ford did succeed where BMW failed. Land Rover has hit global sales records for the past three years now and should do it again this year.
The quality of all the products is way, way up and the new LR2 has been flawless.
Land Rover was the only SUV brand to see increased sales in a decreasing market last year.
So tell me again how they are failing?
At one point I thought Lincoln could be salvaged. It could be reborn from its ashes like Caddy was. I don't think they can now. If ford ends up with just Ford, Lincoln, and Mercury then I think we can basically right them off as a world contender. Lincoln and Mercury have ZERO presence outside the North American market. SO that leaves Ford to do battle outside the US. That is not going to work.
Ford's challenge is to market their V8 products in North America where there is plenty of potential buyers for such cars. Just build and sell vehicles that compete with the big Mercedes and Lexus to win those buyers back to American made.
Obviously, ARM believes it can be done or he would have remained at Boeing. All it will take is Inspiration, Inovation, & Improvements. The overseas market is not needed if you saturate the N American market with high quality American V8's.
Jaguar can do better without Ford's cost cutting philosophy. Germans are profitable because they don't save money on engineering and therefore can sell cars for more.
But the thing is - Ford needs money, or there will be no Ford. ARM is turning the ship around, but it's a big ship and it turns fast. He has no choice but to stop the bleeding at Jag, despite what has been lost, and use the money from the sale to support what is left of Ford, and that may only be Ford when the company is done. But frankly, Ford is the most honest product they have, and if that's all that is left, no Lincoln/Mercury division anymore, it may be the only way they can survive. It will be interesting to watch.
I had two Lincoln Navigators - both excellent trucks. I now have an Escalade - which is only superior in a couple of ways - the seats for one. But as a performer, the Navigators outperformed, outrode, out maneuvered this truck by miles. Ford builds a better, more advanced truck by my comparison.
But they have only really revised the Navigator once, in 03. It's so stale, and the remington shaver front end just offends me to no end. I can't drive one of those. Just can't.
The MKX is as ugly as can be as well. The Edge doesn't look so bad, being a Ford, and a tricked up Edge is sort of appealing to me. But the MKX is just awful, despite a pretty nice cabin.
The MKZ is getting great reviews - but it is afterall, a Mazda 6 under there, and it's way too small for a Lincoln IMO. Lincolns should be bigger than Fords, and more powerful, IMO.
So Ford may be all that survives. If that's the case, and they can make money, regardless of the size of the company, and they make superior product, as they do in trucks, IMO, that may be what it's going to be.
This statement is just full of ignorance. Fuel prices will continue to rise and I wouldn't be surprised if our fuel prices start to more closely match Europe's.
If you think a large multinational corporation can survive without Europe, or the rest of the world for that matter, then you are as deluded as the Isolationists before WWI and WWII.
China will become the largest market for new vehicles in the next few years. GM has managed to make Buick a popular brand in China and Lincoln is no where to be seen.
Europe is still a huge market for new cars. It is not as large as North America or as large is China will be in a few years but it is still a significant market.
Saturating North America with high quality American V8s is not going to save Ford. Having a few good niche mid-sized and full sized V8 powered cars will be good but you need a full line up of cars. The premium small car market is exploding and Ford the only thing Ford has is the Volvo C30.
Yup.
I discovered this board only today, but your post certainly reflects my thoughts & feelings. I have an LS. I'll never own another Ford product. I'm confident they don't care.
Let's see: Lincoln, Land Rover & Jaguar -- who knows which other brands will bite the dust as FoMoCo tries to figure out which of its orifices excrete and which don't.
Oh boy. I came to my Ford experience a bit over seven years ago, and it's been a real trip.
Never to be repeated, at least by me.
It's not isolationist to focus on selling to just North American buyers, however, if the foreigners want our future and superior products, they can buy them, but let's not cater to them as they won't fit into our larger cars.
So Buick is in China -GM can have that market.
Now, try to understand the concept of a smaller Ford Company selling fewer cars to just N American customers and making more profit per car in doing so. We shareholders are more interested in our appreciating investments than our likeability quotient with foreigners.
A company can't be all things to all peoples. North America has the possibility of being the niche market for FoMoCo.
Your view of the auto industry is understandable given its heritage, but just building Detroit iron would be suicide. A multinational car company able to share components, assemblies and technology across many geographies and hundreds of thousands of units (e.g. Toyota) is going to squash anybody who can't play that game. There are still bastions where Detroit rules (I don't think an Asian manufacturer will ever rule in pickups!) but the sad truth is that the American car market is NOT growing. And if you're an investor, the first thing you're going to look for is growth. The domestic manufacturers made a lot of money on big margins on SUV's and trucks in the 90's but those days gone and they are never coming back.
I'd also note this: American car buyers are not going to spring for sedans with V8 engines in any large numbers. The car companies aren't building those cars in great numbers because they know the market is small. (I guarantee you that you'll have no problem buying any car with a Hemi under invoice if you look around. The Ford Fusion is doing much better in comparison.)
As for Lincoln, Ford really can't afford to build a new luxury car platform (or assemble it), so they do what they can. I'm guessing a RWD full-size car platform from Ford will never see the light of day.
But as a full line manufacturer that is what you are supposed to be. :surprise:
The overseas market are essential to North American brands. The US market is not going to have huge year over year growth anymore. The only ways a company is going to see big, read double digit, sales increases is to steal market share from another company or expand into developing markets.
Both cost big money but if you already have the distribution network set up in a foreign market it costs less to get sales there then to fight for sales in a mature market. Now you turn around and use those profits to improve your domestic line of vehicles and be more competitive.
Now they're simply caught without a viable large RWD platform. They'd build the Interceptor and MKR today if they had the platform, but they don't. I'm confident they're working on one (most probably a jointly designed Aussie platform) but it won't be here for a couple of years at least. They're just victims of poor platform planning and Mulally seems to be fixing that problem.
The MKS should be a good intermediate step. Lincoln didn't lose their way overnight and they won't find their way back overnight either.
http://www.tocmp.com/pix/Lincoln/images/part2/65Lincoln01-or.jpg
The ad copy alone makes me want one. You'd never see a beauty like this one in taxicab livery.
Here's another one:
http://www.tocmp.com/pix/Lincoln/images/part2/65Lincoln02-or.jpg