Where Is Ford taking the Lincoln Motor Company?

nvbanker · August 2006

No, Scott is right on the mark. That lineup is EXACTLY what Lincoln needs to recover. Unfortunately, heyjewel is more than likely also correct, that it won't happen, or if it does, they won't do it right or soon. The reason, the sold reason the LS was cancelled was because it would not sell for a profitable price point. It was too much car for what they could sell it for, and they lost money on every one. So, those who own one, got a bargain indeed, as it was a great road car.

From a philosophical standpoint, it shouldn't be that hard. From a practical standpoint, this is what you could hope for;

TOWN CAR: Built on the P-2 platform, it's gonna have to be AWD, as Ford won't have a RWD platform going if they sell Jaguar that's big. Ths Mustang platform won't be large enough to make this truly an Aircraft Carrier, which it needs to be. They can make it resemble the 61, and they should, but it'll have to be an entirely different car.

SUV: Go back to the current Navigator looks, put a larger engine in it, and ENHANCE the interior, not cheapen it, they're there. It's a superior design to anybody elses.

LS: Could be built on the Mustang platform, add an IRS, and STYLE it, with some advertising, it would do fine.

Roadster, same platform, Mark reminscent.

I think that's the best we could hope for.

One more thing - they need to have some unique power plants in them. Personally, I think all Lincolns should have V-8s as a trademark, but CAFE and other costs will rule. They should at least, have significant power.

nvbanker · August 2006

Actually, I don't have a problem with the MK-LT. It's a very nice truck, and the Escalanche is just a re-badged and cladded Avalance, you know. What the hey. If I want a luxury truck, the MK-LT works great for me. I wouldn't mind owning one now. Keep it. But put a Lincoln motor in it.

displacedtexan · August 2006

Nvbanker and Scott1256 are spot on with what Lincoln needs to offer to generate showroom traffic. Heyjewel is probably right in his assessment of our chances of seeing it.

Maybe I'm just feeling pessimistic today.

scott1256 · August 2006

Sounds like we all agree that Lincoln needs to offer the 6 vehicles mentioned in post #503. I hope our instincts are wrong and that Ford will give this range the green light.

Right now Ford and Lincoln are building cars that remind me (Mustang excepted) of vanilla ice cream packaged in a plain box. IMO Ford is in a much weaker position now than GM and DC.

A big source of inertia is the way Henry Ford structured the company. The voting rights of the 'family shares' make it very hard to make radical changes like a merger, hostile takeover or board shake-up.

heyjewel · August 2006

Hey guys (and gals?) - sure we'd all love to see the 503 lineup in a couple of years. But hey, unless a miracle occurs, the lineup I posted IS the Lincoln lineup. I took it from Lincoln press releases and info on here from ANT who works for Lincoln so he oughtta know. Yeah maybe he knows some things he's not sharing and maybe there are things going on he is not privy to, but it just doesn't look good. As others have said, Ford apparently just doesn't get it about Lincoln any more.

And, BTW, did anyone notice that ANT completely ignored my question about a Mustang-based Mercury Cougar? The current Mustang is, IMHO, the best ever. Back in '65, Ford had a Cougar stable-mate for the Mustang on sale within 2 years. And it was a beautiful car and a big hit for Mercury ( remember 'at the sign of the cat'?). Today, Mercury is in need of a hit vehicle but has nothing now and nothing in the pipe, so far as I know. AN upscale more elegant Mustang would be purrfect for bringing younger traffic into L-M showrooms doncha think? Much more so, I would think, than a Lincoln based on the stang which would need to sell for, I dunno, $10K more than a stang?

Is there anyone at Ford who reads this who would like to put me in charge? I am available right now. :>)

grbeck · August 2006

In the 1960s the ponycar market was the equivalent of today's "crossover" market. Just showing up was often enough to generate some extra sales and positive image.

Even Rambler made a decent go of it with the Javelin!

(What people also forget is that after 1968, the ponycar market began to decline rapidly, and weaker entries such as the Cougar, Javelin and Barracuda began to decline in sales.)

Today's ponycar market is very limited. People do not want coupes anymore. (I remember that in the early 1970s people with small children were willing to buy Mustangs or compact coupes and stick children in the back seat. With today's child seat laws, that is virtually impossible, which further limits coupe sales.)

The Mustang sells because it is a Mustang, not because the market for ponycars is hot, or expanding.

At this point, a revived Cougar would probably just cut into Mustang sales. Considering that the Mustang will have to battle a revived Challenger and Camaro for a small segment of the market, it's probably best that Ford focus its resources on one car.

mirth · August 2006

...a Cougar, it can't be a Mustang clone and it needs to be positioned as an entry-level hotrod below the Mustang in price point. It would have to be aimed at the 20-somethings that can't afford a new Mustang and don't really care if the car has 2 doors because they're single.

heyjewel · August 2006

I disagree with both u guys! (mirth and grbeck).

In the 60s the pony car market was big, that's for sure. ANd it faded later, like other 'fads'. I disagree that the Cougar and Javelin were weak in sales however. I don't have the figures but I'd bet both those sold as much or more than the Chrysler ponies. The Javelin lasted to 1975 or 76 IIRC as did the Cougar, in pony format at least. Both grew from their original dimensions but were quite nice vehicles in their own right. I still see a lot of the 70s version of the Javelin around.

As for a Cougar priced below the Mustang as an entry level hotrod!!?? I don't think so. But thanks for playing the game. (BTW, they tried an entry-level Cougar (for women anyway) recently and, as usual for Ford, gave up before they fully developed the car's potential)

Would Cougar cut into Mustang sales? Maybe, but it would all still go to Ford, the Cougar would be a higher profit vehicle, the new traffic in the LM showroms could only help the brands and there are people who remember the 60s Cougar and others who would be attracted to it because it would be a more elegant Mustang. Like me for instance. Does anyone else remember how great the 67 thru 69 Cougars were? And how different from the Mustang they were? Of course, that was when Mercury was a real brand, not a lipstick-like accessory for women. In the present marketing view for Mercury where the brand is seen as almost exclusively for women, the name 'Cougar' is just too fierce and scary anyway. THey'd probably have to rename it the 'Kitty-cat' or the '[non-permissible content removed]' to better reach their audience.

grbeck · August 2006

The Chrysler ponies never sold that well...the 1970 Dodge Challenger was the most popular Chrysler ponycar. It sold a little over 80,000 units, and dropped dramatically for 1971, and limped out the door in mid-year 1974. The Barracuda peaked at about 60,000 in 1967. After 1970, each one was lucky to break 25,000 sales per year.

The Cougar sold well its first year - with over 100,000 sold, but then dropped every year, until it was made over as a personal luxury coupe for 1974.

The Javelin scored about 56,000 sales its first year, and then declined until it hovered around 25,000 per year until it was phased out to make room for...the Pacer!

nvbanker · August 2006

"Does anyone else remember how great the 67 thru 69 Cougars were? And how different from the Mustang they were? Of course, that was when Mercury was a real brand, not a lipstick-like accessory for women. In the present marketing view for Mercury where the brand is seen as almost exclusively for women, the name 'Cougar' is just too fierce and scary anyway. THey'd probably have to rename it the 'Kitty-cat' or the '[non-permissible content removed]' to better reach their audience."

Absolutely, I remember them, lusted after them, and considered restoring one! The original Cougar was a mega hit. And it was a "man's car" back then, where the Mustang was the "Secretarys" car unless it was a GT Fastback. But when the Cougar came back in 83, it was immediately a "woman's car". With the formal roofline, it was just plain pretty. My wife lusted after one for years, until she finally got one in 1990, and another in 1994. The little Mazda derived Cougar that came about in 00 (?), or so, was Girly. My Wife said, when she went to look at it, "I don't think I'm young enough anymore to pull this one off". As you said, Mercury, headed by Elena Ford, is all for Women anymore. What a migration from, "Mercury, the Man's car" to Milan. My wife still likes Mercury, and that's fine.

heyjewel · August 2006

The Javelin scored about 56,000 sales its first year, and then declined until it hovered around 25,000 per year until it was phased out to make room for...the Pacer!

Had to make room for the Pacer - it was Tooo Wide! :>)

grbeck · August 2006

As a kid I remember being very impressed by the sequential turn signals on the Cougar (and Thunderbird) of that era. Ford should bring that one back today, just for the novelty value.

grbeck · August 2006

It was that type of decision that ultimately drove AMC into the arms of Renault.

nvbanker · August 2006

OH, grbeck, as was I, those trick signals were the bomb. Incidentally, ran across a 65 T-Bird at the auction a few months ago, running, but pretty distressed and tired. I sure wouldn't have wanted it. Still, my buddy and I had a quick bet - Did the sequential signals work or not? I bet not. I lost. The damn things worked, and not much else on the car did! Who would have known???

It's those trick things that excite people about cars - and Ford lacks most of them now. Cadillac has 'em. Even Lexus has some.

grbeck · August 2006

Those trick features make people notice a car.

Of course, it helped that in 1965 Ford made disc brakes standard on the Thunderbird and Continental (which they both needed, given their weight). Cadillac didn't have disc brakes standard on the regular line until 1969 (although they were standard on the 1968 Eldorado, probably spurred by a brutal review of a drum-brake-equipped 1967 Eldorado by Car & Driver.)

Nothing wrong with a few gimmicks to please the crowd, as long as the basics are all there.

nvbanker · August 2006

Ford had a ton of firsts back then. The two sided key was introduced by Ford and not copied for decades by GM. The 3 way tailgate on the station wagon was out there in 65 also, and never copied by GM. Though they eventually brought out that wierd wagon where the tailgate disappeared into the roof and floor. Interesting... Disc brakes as you said, but back then, they ADVERTISED these features and innovations. Today, they do not - they don't even show you the car doing anything other than just going down a road!

fintail · August 2006

And of course they've had the flex fuel for well over a decade...and nary a peep to be heard about that one.

Sometimes I think I could create better ad campaigns all by myself than these overpriced agencies the big 2.5 hire.

grbeck · August 2006

And don't forget the industry's first V-8 built with thinwall-casting techniques (introduced in the 1962 Fairlane).

In all fairness, it is harder to come up with "breakthrough" features today, given the fierce competition.

Advertising the equivalent of a two-sided key would bring yawns from today's jaded audience.

Plus, Ford needs a new INTERNAL attitude. I read that one of the reasons the vice president who pushed the Esacpe Hybrid left was because of the company's culture. She regularly received e-mails from co-workers asking why she was pushing this hybrid, and calling it a waste of time.

Newsflash - concerns over fuel consumption and emissions are not going to suddenly vanish (even if large segments of the environmental community do go overboard with "the-sky-is-falling" rhetoric).

Meanwhile, Honda says that it will push for improvements in fuel economy and emissions in its new vehicles (while maintaining performance), regardless of the direction taken by government regulations.

nvbanker · August 2006

NO doubt, Ford's current culture is one of NON-Bold moves.... Just saying so, won't make it so.

scootertrash · August 2006

Each time I see those "bold moves" ads with Billy, I expect them to end with a close up of him with a tear running down his face, like in the old "don't litter" ads.

nvbanker · August 2006

Exactly, scooter. Compare the ads Chrysler has with Dr. Z, showing cars doing handling stunts, seats disappearing, heading a soccer ball, with Bill saying we have cars that'll run on ethanol. He's 10 years late on that claim. But again, show the car, its features, and capabilities, like the Mustang Ads and the F-150 ads! Of course, Lincoln ads are now the worst. They used to be ok, when they first advertised the Navigator with the power running boards....

lemko · August 2006

...that there will be no V-8 in the MKZ, I'd say Ford's taking Lincoln to meet Mr. Booth. A V-6 doesn't work for the Acura RL and most certainly won't work in what's supposed to be a top-of-the-line Lincoln.

[Deleted User] · August 2006

I hope Ford is thinking in terms of a V8 that will fit front drive sedans at some point. The TT V-6 may be a hot set-up, but luxury brands without a V8 option tend to languish, no matter how good the 6 might be. Beyond that, not having a V8 for the MKS means there will be no V8 option at any point for the MKX or the Edge or the 500 or Montego. The Chrysler 300, Dodge Charger, Dodge Magnum, Chevrolet Impala, Pontiac Grand Prix, Buick Lucerne and all the Cadillacs offer V8s now.

Hot set-ups of smaller engines do tend to get good press, but they don't tend to sell in great numbers. The Audi 6 2.7T, the old Mazda 2.3 V6 Miller cycle engine, the 274 hp Maqzda 2.3 4 cylinder, the WRX four, etc., all put out great gobs of power for their displacement at the time, and have been praised, but the sales numbers were not big.

Part of the difficulty I think is that by the time you turbocharge and intercool a smaller engine, it weighs a lot more than the non-hopped up version. Further, gas mileage tends to be no better than that of bigger naturally aspirated engines. Witness the 2007 LS460. They are advertising it as having the power of a 5.5 with the economy of a 3.5. They are darn close. It gets better mileage than the MazdaSpeed 6 sedan, which is a manual.

grbeck · August 2006

I think Ford is turning Lincoln into Mercury.

Given this route, I'd suggest the company bite the bullet and somehow find a way to phase out Mercury. Perhaps Lincoln's dealer network could be combined with either that of Ford or Mazda.

Either way, I'm looking for some BIG changes at Ford in the next 12 months. This is a company in serious trouble. If everything isn't on the table, it should be, and that includes sending Mercury off to where Oldsmobile and Plymouth currently reside.

marsha7 · August 2006

I was wondering where they hid Olsmobile and Plymouth, ya just don't see any more new models from them on the roads, do ya???...:):):):):):):):):)

arumage · August 2006

All of GM's V8 sedan's excluding Cadillac are FWD, which is not a very attractive solution IMHO, and Chrysler's get poor gas mileage. The Cadillac's are awesome, but I wouldn't really want to owe more in repairs than I owe on the vehicle.

Most of the difference in gas mileage difference you point out in the MazdaSpeed 6 sedan and the LS460 has to do with the extra two gears the Lexus has and the ratio of those gears. It's an 8-speed automatic. Also, the LS460 will probably start at over $50,000.

All that being said, I also think that they should atleast offer that 4.4L V8 with the MKS just because I can't see somebody's grandfather driving a twin-turbo Lincoln. I definitely would though.

lemko · August 2006

Well, compared to peers' who own BMWs and Mercedes, any repair costs associated with my Cadillacs are very modest.

Per Chryslers, they may get poor fuel economy, but that's the trade-off for pavement-blistering performance.

An 8-speed transmission is overkill for the Lexus and risks tarnishing that make's reputation for reliability. The only guys I can see really praising an 8-speed Lexus gearbox are the owners of transmission shops. "My kids are going to Harvard!"

Twin-turbo Lincoln? Too exotic! Stick with a tried-and-true V-8.

arumage · August 2006

The word is that Ford is working on a small V8 w/ respectable horsepower(4.2L I think) based on the 3.5L V6, but it's 18-24 months away from completion. This would be the best of both worlds. People get the V8 they want, and Ford gets to use a new engine produced with relatively the same manufacturing techniques as the high volume V6.

I have to applaud Ford for making this new V6 relatively simple, yet very competetive. If they make a V8 out of it, that would take care of most of their fleet. They should be pretty easy to work on.

scootertrash · August 2006

Ford's in the news today-
Billy is courting Carlos Ghosn again, and the Ford family might take the company private.

Should be interesting.

douglasr · August 2006

Jaguar, of course, has taken the majority of funding at Ford Motor over the last decade in place of investment in Lincoln in a large measure. Today that may all come to an end as Sir Anthony Bamford has effectively put Jaguar on the table with his remark at Bonneville: "I'd like to buy it..." Bamford's JCB International has nine facilities in America and nine in Europe, his personel net worth is L1.3Bn, and JCB is fifth internationally in supply of construction equipement. Started in 1945 upon the birth of young Anthony, in his garage Joseph Cyril Bamford (JCB) began manufacturing his own type of farm and construction equipment in his 12x15' garage---starting out just like Henry Ford in 1895-6! Bamford gave advice to Sir William Lyons on many occassions for Jaguar, hence the family connection cited by Sir Anthony, who has run JCB International since he was 29 years old in 1975.

Though I believe that Ford Motor will keep Jaguar until the introduction of the S Type replacement, for the simple fact of hubris and wanting to succeed one last time before they throw in the towel, Bamford has the capacity to ante the first bid on the table to $2.5Bn for Jaquar. IN doing so it places the Big Cat into play, and anyone will dive in for a countering offer---Toyota, Hyundai, the Chinese...etc.

This can only be good for Lincoln. Hamstrung as it now is by a lack of investment on one side, and corporate politics on the other. Elena Ford, also responsible for future strategic plans at Lincoln-Mercury was quoted in Forbes: "Yes, I am a Ford, but as far as I can tell, people have no problem looking past that when it comes to getting work done..." she commented in reponse to another Ford Executive who stated: "People thought....'oh they put Elena in there...' I don't want to be the person to tell them it's a waste of time." Forbes article questions how long the Ford's can stay at the helm of the Blue Oval, given the possibility of partnership or merger with another firm, and the lackluster performance of Bill Ford since 1998. As such they site the possible demarche or 'veto' family members have over pending projects that do not meet their approval. Hence the axing of Lincoln investment under Wolfgang Reitzle several years ago.

Where will Lincoln roll? Even a privatised Ford Motor Company will take several more years before a V8 powered Lincoln is ready to compete against the ever improving competition. Mr. Horbury's job just got a lot harder.

As Lincoln goes, so goes the nation...

DouglasR

(Sources: Edmunds Inside Line, FT, JCB International; Forbes Magazine September 4, 2006)

nippononly · August 2006

a TV ad for Lincoln last night - highly forgettable IMO. What was that tag line, "reaching higher" or something? Sheesh. There was 0 motivation in there to go check out a Lincoln.

nvbanker · August 2006

You find 'em at the Buick &
Dodge dealers, marsha7..... Oh, they're there, just look closely. :shades:

lemko · August 2006

Shoot, should be more like:
"Lincoln: Retire."
or
"Lincoln: Reach into Mazda's parts bin and see what you can come up with."

I am so disappointed in them. Why don't they build that beautiful Continental prototype only without the stupid "Hot Wheels" rims?

scootertrash · August 2006

-Lincoln: When you've fallen and can't get up.

-Dumping Jag is Lincoln's only hope.

-Mercury is toast.

-You KNOW, the MKS will NEVER get a twin turbo engine anymore than Ford delivered that 25% SUV mileage improvement Billy promised or the 250,000 Hybrids a year he promised and backed away from a few months later.

- I hope Doug stops saying "as Lincoln goes, so goes the Nation" If that's the case, I'm getting depressed.

nippononly · August 2006

"Lincoln: When you've fallen and can't get up"

ROFLMAO!!!!!!

:-P

douglasr · August 2006

Sir Anthony Bamford's off the cuff remark about wanting to "buy Jaguar", put more than the Big Cat in play. Behind the veneer comes Jacques Nasser at J.P. Morgan offering buy both Jaguar, Land-Rover and other labels. Ford Board member Robert E. Rubin, former Treasury Secretary resigns from Ford Motor in part because they are discussing taking the company private, and his son works for Nasser and J.P. Morgan Bank---citing a conflict of interest. Bill Ford gets asked the same week in an interview in Business Week if "problematic brands like Lincoln and Jaguar" are for sale? Bill anwers that "we haven't concluded what we are going to do yet...but our strategy doesn't preclude that..."

The very next day the WSJ prints an article about executive woes at Ford: "I need to get out of Detroit" one executive is quoted---with the enquiries to head-hunting firms by Ford Executives increasing three times since the begining of the year. The article sadly points out that individuals Bill Ford himself pointed out for special tasks or placed in the spot-light within the last several years have since left Ford Motor, Phil Martens and Mary Ann Wright chief among them (Ms. Wright was in part development engineer for LS, and now works at Collins & Aikman) as former Hybrid Engineer for Ford Motor. Executives are getting worried at Ford Motor enough to prepare the parachutes.

Mr. Nasser, still enormoured of the British Brands, may well be able to set up a new automotive firm on the rocks of Ford's failures within PAG. If the Ford Family wants to privatise Ford Motor, half the cash needed for the buyuout can be realised by selling the bulk of PAG. While Ford Motor turned down an offer for Astons several months ago, it might now reconsider. Nissan-Renault might step into the breach an offer a partnership with Nasser.

The closure of Wixom leaves Lincoln a third shift brand, sharing platforms of other Ford Motor cars---much as it has done for several decades albeit having its own home. A Lincoln Motor spun off from Ford Motor into a new company with Jaguar/Astons/Land-Rover, and aided by Nissan-Renault might have a chance. Wixom could revived as the 'Lincoln Motor Company' independent within the umbrella the the new "Nasser-Nissan-Motors Co". Mr. Ford and his cousin Elena---also in charge of future strategy for Lincoln-Mercury---seem oblivious to the fate of Lincoln. A Lincoln within Ford Motor, having lost 25% of its market-share since 1998, will have at best a marginal future as top-line pick-up trucks, and the latest Ford-Mazda chassis. It is being taken out of the top rank of motorcars without a V8 for the Mark S. Even AMG Chairman Volker Mornhinweg admits that a V6 is not enticing enough for its customers, if that holds for a specialist manufacturer at the high end, it holds for a larger one too. Maybe it is time for Lincoln to leave Ford Motor, and allow another firm to guide its hand---perhaps they can capitalise on the very lore that Edsel Ford and Henry Leland created, along with Elwood Engle and Gene Bordinat.

Such a scenario would be risky, but provide a tremendous chance for Lincoln to start fresh. Ford Motor investments in Lincoln won't show fruit until 2009-10, and any new company would take as long to build a new car. Lincoln's future between now and 2009 dismal at best, a change in ownership with new dealers might not hurt, especially given positive press over the move. Yet the success of Bentley under VWAG and Rolls-Royce at BMW AG points to the possibilities that revival can happen, even when they come from untoward and surprising directions. The new 'Nasser-Motors' (NNMC) could take a lot of Ford Motor talent with them: Ian Callum at Jaguar, Peter Horbury and Freeman Thomas at Ford Motor, and Dr. Ulrich Bez at Astons. The top-end team could march out of Detroit just as many Ford Executives are doing. In effect, a vote of 'no confidence' in the 'Way Fordward Plan'.

Given the vacilations at the top of the Glass House...such a plan might well happen. If Lincoln Motor Co became independent again, under the umbrella of new owners, the fair case can be made for top-flight manufacturing in America using an American brand, in a new or revamped factory. Goodwood cost BMW AG $85Mn to build...VWAG spent five times that to revamp Crewe. Wixom might well lead the way once again...it has been a very long time. Bill Ford can't ignore the new Cadillac adds tauting the new 'Wixom Performance Center' showing the hand-crafted Cadillac engines...Cadillac now building 'better Lincolns'---hot rodded with those hand-built Wixom engines! Yet, selling Lincoln may well provide the solution to the question W.C.F. Jr. seems unwilling to answer---what to do with Lincoln?

Where Lincoln rolls, so rolls the nation...

DouglasR

Sources: WSJ/08-28-06; Business Week/09-04-06; FT; Edmunds Inside Line.)

heyjewel · August 2006

Ohh boy, Douglas, really reaching on this one arent you?

These mucks blowing hot air around the big cat would no sooner want to include Lincoln in their shopping list than Jacques Nasser would want a white engineer in his company.

Ford can sell all this British stuff to Nasser and complete the full circle started when Nasser came into the then flush Ford and went on a buying spree in GB. The Nasser tenure is what ruined Ford, no doubt in my mind and for Nasser to come in and pick up the pieces is a sick joke, but that's the way it is. (Firestone being a somewhat unrelated but heavy straw on the camel's back - sorry, Jacques, just an expression)

Nasser helped push as many white workers out the door at Ford as he could. If I were a white person working at Jag/LR etc, I'd polish up my resume right now. Nasser won't want to see a "sea of white faces" at his first company meeting.

As for Lincoln, I received a big promo post card from them just yesterday. "Celebration - pick one of our beautiful Lincolns and ..." Their Lincolns consited of 3 vehicles - a big pickup truck, a big SUV and a modified Mazda. Now *THAT's* a vehicle lineup positioned for the future, eh?

douglasr · August 2006

Ohh, I did not say that Lincoln as part of "NNMC" under jacques nasser would be a cake-walk, only that 'it could' happen if Mr. Nasser talked Bill Ford into selling Lincoln----the Mark S tied as it is to Jaguar and other PAG bits. If that happened then Lincoln would have one, and only one chance at survival---which might be capitalised upon. Yet I don't beleive for a moment that Ford Motor would actually sell Lincoln. Dump the majority of PAG excepting Volvo, yes, in an instant. The whole PAG experience diverted funds Ford Motor could have used to fix its carlines, expand Mercury and Lincoln. Selling Lincoln for Ford Motor would create a wave of bad publicity on one side, and 'what's in store for Lincoln' on the other. Neither result would solve Lincoln's problems for another several years. Mr. Nasser doing, in-effect, what John DeLorean did decades ago: start a new motor company! In today's harsh climate, that would really be putting the kneck on the line. But there are plenty of hedge fund players and individuals like Kerkorian that might finance such a venture. Given the fact that Bill Ford himself has stated no option has been taken off the table...selling Lincoln, privatising, selling whole or part of Ford Motor Credit, etc., etc. is all in the tea leaves.

Like Perry Mason used to say..."I merely said, 'suppose Ford sells Lincoln...'" If Ford Motor did that, it would tacit admission of defeat, and speed the ultimate break-up of Ford Motor Company. That is why Lincoln, then as now, is the fulcrum of the company between its product lines and profitability: why it is so important for them to get it right, and bring Lincoln back from 'Packardisation' aka making Lincoln into an ultra expensive Mazda or Jaguar/Volvo clone.

As Lincoln goes, so goes the nation...

DouglasR

[Deleted User] · August 2006

Nasser's methods may not have been to your liking, but Ford's troubles cannot be put on him. He's been gone long enough for them to have a whole raft of new product. Instead, current management sat on their hands, further delayed things, and refused to produce some real cars from some very winning concepts.

nvbanker · August 2006

Well....from my vantage point, here's how it started to slip down. I actually applauded Nasser's acquisitive ventures, until he went in the retail auto parts bidness in Europe anyway. I thought it was a coup buying Volvo, Jag, LR and AM. I thought it would give Ford a global footprint, placing them squarely in the Euro Luxury niche, with real heritage. Plus, I believed Ford was just what the Brits needed to fix their stalling leakers. I was right where Jaguar is concerned. I also think Ford helped Volvo move forward.

I also agreed with his assemblage of the PAG, including putting Lincoln in it, because the LS was born - the undisputed champion of the brand. A true 5 series competitor, with an American heritage. American Luxury was a good tagline. Gone, now of course.

But Jacques did have a dark side. He ran off the best engineers and designers on an ethnic cleansing binge, retarding the continued progress the company had going. Real inertia (and morale) buster. Shame those people were white guys - they couldn't help it. And they knew their stuff.

In the midst of demoralizing the whole company, despite a good structure with a plan, the Firestone/Explorer disaster struck. And a disaster it was. Although eventually cleared of any negligence, Ford was stained irreparably it seemed, and Jacques took the fall for the one thing that probably wasn't his fault. It was hard to feel badly for him, because he wasn't a likeable guy. But fair is fair. Funny thing, once the Michelins were installed on the fleet of Explorers out there, they quit flipping over.....

Now, Bill, who has never been known as a "Mr. Fixit" manager, takes the helm, and basically unwinds everything Nasser had done, the good and the bad. Except, he can't get back his expertise that was dismissed for being too white and male. Well, we know what happened next, the cash dried up, the plan to be come the "green" car company was implemented, promises were made, and not fulfilled. Big trucks were supported, the Taurus was allowed to languish hopelessly, and the arguably best Brand in the business at one time, became a sorry parody of itself in the rental fleets.

Meanwhile Lincoln was completely neglected, the Town Car was endlessly "thrifted" into livery status, with cheap leather and no options you can't get on an Impala. The LS was given the axe, and so dies the finest Domestic Sedan ever built. But, we have Lincoln trucks - problem is, even the Navigator, the Taurus of Luxury SUVs that changed the world, now takes second place behind the Johnny come Lately Escalade without even a fight, mostly because of the horsepower deficiency. (Personally, I still like the Navigator best). But we have the Mark LT, not bad, really, though obviously rebadged. The Zephyr even insults us further, being such an obvious Fusion, and beneath that, an obvious Mazda 6. It's just way too damn small to really be a Lincoln, and way to slow as well.

Well, didn't mean to rival Douglas r for word count, but that's how I see it. Ford has no plan. Lincoln even has less. Bill is seriously considering a sale or merger? He sells Hertz, a profitable arm of the company, and dumps every dime into Jaguar, which has never made a profit yet. Now, he's gonna sell Ford Credit, the one other profitable arm of the company he has? What would Henry say..... Once the last profitable division of the company is sold, the company will then last 6 months before the mighty Ford brand is know as Nash, Studebaker and Packard.

:sick:

marsha7 · August 2006

When I went to have my Ram 1500 serviced at Dodge, I looked and looked but the new Plymouths must be in the fenced yard behind the dealership...:):):):):)

savetheland · August 2006

Why Nasser hated white guys? And how engineers can be fired based on their etnicity or race? Why engineers did not start class action against company? Sorry Navi I can hardly believe in this story, in PC America it is next to impossible. We tried to fire just ONE black guy for a good reason and we had trouble (though we won after spending money on lawyer).

heyjewel · August 2006

"Why Nasser hated white guys? And how engineers can be fired based on their etnicity or race? Why engineers did not start class action against company? Sorry Navi I can hardly believe in this story, in PC America it is next to impossible. We tried to fire just ONE black guy for a good reason and we had trouble (though we won after spending money on lawyer)."

I don't know if Nasser 'hated' white guys. I do know that, in a Ford company meeting, it was published and several people who were there confirmed it, Nasser said "I do not like the sea of white faces I see at these company meetings." Nasser instituted an HR plan which enabled him to force out many white workers. And he did. That was lso confirmed by people in the company.

savetheland, I don't know what part of the USA you live in but firing a minority, especially a black employee, is next to impossible, as you found out. It's no surprise to me, I've seen it thruout my career. OTOH, firing someone who is white is easy as making toast. That's America for ya. I've heard it wasn't always this way. That we're making up for past wrongs. Well, I say BS. Not one single white person who has been fired or displaced over the last 30-40 years committed any of those wrongs. But it is fashionable to hate and blame white folks cause we're all rich rich rich and we got this rich on the backs of minorities. Just ask them. BTW, when u ask them, see if they have some extra $$$s. I've been out of work for almost a year. I was forced out to make room for another of the new minorities (actually majority in most S/W companies now) - an H1B import from India. I called a couple of employment lawyers. They thought I was joking that they might take my case. There was no case. Cause I'm w h i t e.

But I digress from discussing Lincoln. I met many smart, dedicated engineers and product managers thru my LS experiences and the LS owners club. I don't know what happened to them. I do know that talented people have been leaving Ford for years - first forced out, then laid off, now they're just trying to get out. (See yesterday's or day before Detroit News.) I am losing confidence that Ford can get out of this mess and perhaps they deserve it? Bill F has done little to turn things around except cut cut cut and promise promise promise. He promised to build a huge number of hybrids. But he backed off that. His head of hybrid development left the company. He put his sister or cousin, whatever, (Elena) in charge of Mercury. Now it's a joke. He put a black guy who was a parts manager in charge of Lincoln. Now look where Lincoln is. Well, at least they've raised their diversity quotient, even if they can't get a decent Mercury or Lincoln designed and built.

scootertrash · August 2006

Did anyone hear the rumor that Ray Nagin will take Robert Rubin's place on the Ford Board of Directors?

displacedtexan · August 2006

Thursday's USA Today, Money section, had a front page article about the possible sale and future of Jaguar. What interested me in the article was the following statement by the author, after discussing the sale of Jaguar and Land Rover: "This would leave Ford with two premium brands: Volvo, which has seen sales slip 10.3% this year, and Aston Martin, a low-volume car maker." And this, attributed to UK analyst Michael Wynn-Williams: Ford "desperately needs to be able to move up to the premium market...If it dropped its premium brands, it really would be in trouble."

No mention of Lincoln at all, anywhere in the article: not as a once-upon-a-time premium brand; not as a possible future premium brand. Lincoln was totally off the radar. I'm not sure what can be done to turn perception around, and I'm not optimistic about the marque's future.

scootertrash · August 2006

Today, Paul Harvey said Ford is shopping Jaguar- so it has to be true.

[Deleted User] · August 2006

Excuse me, but what a sorry bunch of over-paid dimwits. Selling off parts of your own body--especially when it is on life support and needs every bit of itself to recover--is going to accomplish, well what?

It is so difficult to understand how people who have no clue--of the market and the industry and what matters to the buying public--get thenselves into these positions. Witchcraft, perhaps??

Apparently, Bill Ford is not even aware enough to know that he should be ashamed of what has transpired under his watch. And now "everything is on the table." Like as in "we have no clue, but won't someone always save us?".

Look, you dolts. You have had every advantage: good sales, good engineers, good concepts, huge market share. You got there with product. You NEVER got it by delaying introductions, cancelling proposals before they tested and by being timid. You will NEVER get to the top by limiting yourselves to what focus groups like.

I don't think any of this is getting through to anyone who matters at the helm. Ford, Mercury, Lincoln, Volvo, Land Rover, Jaguar and Aston Martin could have a synergy no one else could touch. Admit you don't know jack--doesn't the market share loss even with those kind of assets tell you that???

New products, non-pretend updates and more variety to the already existing models may cost you huge amounts of dough, but nothing else will have a chance of succeeding. Selling an arm or a leg will only make you look stupid. Pity poor Lincoln, but as Lincoln goes, so goes Ford.

savetheland · August 2006

In news I read that Ford is trying to sell profitable Aston Martin without Jaguar. I am not wondering anymore  they lost their way evidently. They had similar problems in 30s, 40 and 80s. Ford was worlds #1 automaker in 20s and see where they ended up. After Taurus there were talks that Ford will be #1 again but you know that Ford is no Toyota  they have to do lot of stupid decisions first and then recover after heroic efforts. And it is even before union inefficiency is taken into account.

I am in CA. Blacks are considered here as holy cows so I do not even try to argue with them  just staying away from trouble. I did not argue with my cat either

When papers talk about premium cars they mean Europe. Lincoln did not succeed in Europe. Premium Ford sold in Europe was Ford Scorpio but after failed redesign Ford abandoned this sector. Idea to replace Scorpio with Lincoln LS did not fly because of Jaguar.

Jaguar hurt Ford in many ways. Not bringing Lincoln in Europe is only one episode. Jaguar will probably be around after Ford goes bankrupt and disappears completely being a distant memory and still Jaguar will be unprofitable. May be some Chinese company will own Jaguar eventially. But who needs Ford/Lincoln/Mercury? Ford has to get rid of Jaguar ASAP.

nvbanker · August 2006

Well, for now, Ford Credit is on the block first. By the way, it's the most profitable division of the company. So, naturally, that's the easiest to sell, so that's where desperate, short term management looks. Hertz was first - also profitable. Now Ford Credit, next Jaguar, Land Rover... I've been a Ford guy all my life, and my father was one before me. They've had their ups and downs, but I've never seen it so out of control as now. They're on the ropes, and only a real leader could put them back in order. What's Iacocca doing now? Probably gumming his food and playing chess...

douglasr · September 2006

On the ashes of PAG Group, a new company, perhaps, under Jacques Nasser will for created. For the man has not actually left Ford Motor, keeping an office within the company, will not get his chance to prove the viability of his investment in the British Brands. Astons sale along with Jaguar, and Land Rover might be forced into the breech to sweeten the deal, will provide the centerpiece for the new firm. Outside of Ford, it may well prosper. How many talented executives will follow the example of the un-named Ford executive quoted by the WSJ: "I want to get out of Detroit", and begin perhaps a brain-drain at Ford Motor.

It was not a mistake for Ford to expand, over-arching with Jaguar was---two thirds the investment, or at least half, should have gone to Lincoln. The whole of the X series Jaguars should never have been built as such, being Mercury's instead. A realistic build target of 75-100K cars would have seen success instead of doubling the chance of failure at 200K. And the style being criticised for being too conservative: "Hard core loyalists loved what they were doing, everyone else was puzzled..." Matthew Lynn of the London Spectator comments. It is sad now that they fixed the car, reliability factors included, that they will not wait for the next S Type, sharing as it does a platform with the Lincoln S.

Go, and go it will. Bill Ford's "we're not ruling anything out" mantra in his effort to return to profitability, merely tells the public, "We don't know where we are going."---because they do not see where they actually are. The disconnect between top management and the real world seems must greater from this distance. At the end of the day, a Ford Motor without the British Brands will free up billions for Lincoln and Mercury. But an exodus of talent to the new Nasser Motors underwritten by J.P. Morgan Bank, will leave a tougher nut to crack for Lincoln to emerge from the ashes of the mistakes at the Glass House.

"Good Enough" is no longer adequate. No serious replacements for LS, Town Car, Crown Vic/Marquis, Taurus or even the MondeoSVO have been announced or scheduled. It will take some serious talking and action by Ford Motor to realign itself in the public eye after it off-loads a fair percentage of the company. Selling Ford Motor Credit, even a portion, would make it harder for Ford to borrow in the future---raising its costs longterm. Sitting on $35Bn in cash and credit, and engaging in a "garage sale", means that Ford is losing closer to $2,000 a vehicle in North America. To make a profit outside its finance arm, Ford needs to change its costs $2,500 per car.

Perhaps that is why there is ostensibly panic at the Glass House, and revisions are being offered ontop of revisions. Where does that leave Lincoln? It will still be 2009-10 before any serious product sees the light of day. Continental is still mentioned within the Lincoln website...though none now exists. So Lincoln has to survive some very dark years until the next decade to see new product worthy of the tradition and name. I would hate to say that only when Toyota passes Ford for '06, or '07 will Bill Ford cede his chair to Edsel II. And only then will someone champion Lincoln. For it is clear that there is no voice at Lincoln urging its cause. Elena Ford, Mr. Fields, and Mr. Leet seem unaware...Bill will only chose between the choices he is given.

With or without Jaguar, it seems those choices are narrowing for Lincoln.

DouglasR

(Sources FT, WSJ, Automotive News, Edmunds ONline)

Where Is Ford taking the Lincoln Motor Company?

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