sorry, i said that badly... People see 'Civic' and think gutless economy car. While yes, it could probably be called essentially the same by some, I prefer to consider it otherwise. Really, the biggest reason I did it was because I saw some pictures of others who had done it and liked how it looked... It really does look pretty nice, with just the red 'Si' on there.
I got exactly the same problem. It gets very bad when it is hot outside and it is almost gone when it is cooler and rainy.
The people at the dealership first admited that they hear the noise, later they denied saying that they don't hear anything unusual and that they are not going to do anything about it. I have filed a complaint with Honda America and now I am waiting for them to see it. Can you please give me an advice what to tell a Honda rep when he sees the car and I am not able to duplicate the noise?
Another issue... the plastic shelf behind the rear seats has a crack coming from the hole where the seat belt is coming through. I didn't notice it until about four months after buying the car. Now the dealer tells me that I abused it and they are not going to replace it! I don't know what to do about it. Noone has ever sat in the back of the car...
Hey folks. I was wondering if I could get some input from those who had checked out both the GTI and Si. I am trying to decide between a GTi with DSG or an Si Sedan w/ Navi. Here's what I've come up with so far from two short test drives...
Looks: To my eyes, the GTI looks better with its sophisticated styling and almost-Audi classiness (Beauty is in the eye of the beholder).
Handling: Si takes this one hands down. The steering is much more direct than the GTi
Power: The GTi wins due its torque advantage and more usable powerband, though its worth saying that the Si is a hoot about 6k rpm, and it still has decent pull around town.
Price: Si is MUCH cheaper than the GTi, and this price difference would mean that I could swing a Navi system, whereas in the GTi, I can't.
Space: Tie. The Si has a better back seat while the GTi has a better trunk with ski pass-through.
Interior: Tie Again. The GTi is classy, but also a bit boring. I feel like it would age well, but it's not all that exciting. The Si on the other hand looks like a spaceship and has quality similar to that of the GTi, but something tells me it will look dated quickly.
I've been trying to find a clear winner for quite sometime, and I still don't know. Do I pay more for a car with a trick transmission and a more upscale feel, or do I pay less for something that is more entertaining in the twisties but less of a long-distance machine? Any help would be great! Thanks!
The problem with VW is reliability and dealer service. If and I do stress IF you have a dealership near you that is really great and I am talking about the service dept here, not sales. Then a VW would be a possible choice but in my hometown the dealer is "not the best to deal with" and my experience with VW's are that they are really nice cars but tend to be unreliable. Hondas seem to be fairly bulletproof and I've owned 2 Civics and both were bland to drive but very very reliable. Newer Hondas might be more fun to drive (I haven't driven one in quite a while) but they really are bulletproof and that says a lot about a car.
Just curious if you've looked at a Mazdaspeed 3? I have a friend who is considering one and it's like $23K MSRP! The MS3 is a sick car, I'd be very tempted if they offered it in white.
I've had my 07 Si for about 6 weeks now. When we test drove an Si about 6 months or so ago, the hanging throttle was very pronounced. When we finally ended up buying one, the one we purchased has barely a hint of it, and only when you're way up on the tach. When tooling around town there's no hanging at all. Perhaps they've "fixed" it on new production.
So far my only complaints are:
Some popping from the suspension. It rides well for a performance car (much better than my 99 Mustang Cobra did). We have really rough streets where I live and it only does it at really slow speeds with fairly big bumps/holes.
The exhaust is fairly loud inside the car. Louder than the stock pipes on my Cobra. Most of the time I like the sound. Sometimes it gets annoying.
The interior is hard to keep looking clean and new. The black shows dust/dirt/hair easily. The black seats love to pickup lint. My wife took some friends out one night, one of which was wearing a pink sweater. I almost had a heart attack when I got in and saw my seat had a hot pink tint to it. The black plastic on the inside of the door scuffs easily and shows it badly.
All in all, the car is really great. It's amazing how far the Civic has come since I had my 95 EX coupe.
I haven't checked out the Mazdaspeed as much as the others mostly because the interior struck me as cheap. I am a stickler for interiors since, as I see it, it's where you experience the car and spend almost all of your time. I realize that the MS3 is crazy fast and a good drive, but the interior just kills it for me.
As a reply to the other post(s), I guess the throttle hang isn't so much a problem as an annoying feature. Are there any other known issues with the Si? I've had a look at the GTi forums, and it seems like the DSG is better than it was in the first A3's, but I'm still hearing about some problems.
Another couple questions, how is the highway cruise in the Si. Quiet? Smooth Ride? Does the 6th gear help keep the revs down and the engine calm? How is the torque at low revs? Can you drive around normally, doing all of the normal A to B chores without going into VTECH. Please forgive all of these questions...This is the first Honda that I have ever really been interested in, and most of my car knowledge lies with Saabs and Audis.
I bought my '07 Si in May, and I absolutely love it. To answer some questions...
Quiet? Very. Even just sitting at a light, the noise level with the windows down vs. windows up is significant. pretty quiet even at cruising speeds on the freeway.
Smooth? Reasonably. If you're going over kinda uneven roads, you'll definitely feel it, but on normal driving, it's great. Stiff enough to let you feel the road, but pretty smooth overall ride.
6th gear is fairly tall, in normal driving I take it from about 63 mph at 2800 rpms to ~80 mph at 3600 rpms, and 100 mph at around 4800 rpms. About the Si's rpms, remember that this engine is designed to drive with higher rpms... I normally don't let them go below ~2500, and (again in normal driving, i.e., non-vtec-fun-time ) shift at around 3500 rpms.
About the i-VTEC, remember that it is ALWAYS engaged, anytime you start being aggressive with your driving (flooring it, etc.). With that said, I drive around town ALL THE TIME without kicking the VTEC into high gear... As I said above, just normal driving with reasonable shift points, that will keep the VTEC fairly quiet.
Torque is pretty good at the low end (sub-2800 rpms) and the high end (6000+ rpms). In the middle it's marginal, but just fine as long as you're not loaded down with a car full of people. If you have 1-3 people in the car, you can still pull some good performance. With 4 or 5, you definitely notice an unfortunate lack of adequate torque... :sick:
ALSO... (sorry, this post is REAL long...) I test-drove the GTI before I bought my Si. Although I agree that the greater power in the GTI was nice, my main turn-offs were the price and a somewhat shoddy reputation for VW reliability over the long-term. I plan to keep my Si for at least 7-8 years or so, so as a college student, I wanted a car that would be happy and healthy over the long haul. Personally, though I look back with joy at that 'Launch Mode' of theirs, the GTI was really not what I wanted, and the SI was perfect in every respect for what I was after. Light/compact, good mileage, respectable/fun performance, and a nice appearance.
Defects in the front suspension, bad struts, poor paint quality, easily worn/damaged interior materials, recalls for defective rear wheel bearing seals, etc. I have NEVER taken a Honda product in for any kind of recall since 1990. Now, I will.
Or did you mean that I show proof that Honda still tops VW - that's as close as JD Power and Consumer Reports.
Hey thanks for answering all of my questions. I'm still not sure about which one to go for. I think I'm going to have to go for a couple of longer test drives and then maybe flip a coin... :confuse:
Hey thanks for answering all of my questions. I'm still not sure about which one to go for. I think I'm going to have to go for a couple of longer test drives and then maybe flip a coin...
The reality is that when all is said and done what you should do is buy the car you like the most. Forget all the magazines and advice from friends etc.... When you sit in the car and you just really enjoy it that's the car you buy. The one you don't have any regrets buying when you drive out of the dealership. You've narrowed it down to 2 cars so buy the one you like the best, drive them a few more times and be happy with what you buy. It's really that simple.
I'm just curious where you got your info, and what you base your judgements on. I'm on 4000mi. and have none of the issues you mention:
Defects in the front suspension, bad struts, poor paint quality, easily worn/damaged interior materials, recalls for defective rear wheel bearing seals, etc
Though, paint is chipping from 80mph @#$%^ I-5 construction.
Those are some issues people are having with the Si. I haven't looked in any of the GTI forums, I'm not really sure what they may be having with it. Myself, I'm at about 4300 miles, and haven't really had any major issues. Yea, there are some small things I'm gonna have looked at since I have the warranty (like my left-rear window making an odd noise going down), but nothing I'm at all concerned with.
so i've been part of this group since June 23 when i bought my Si sedan.
as some of you have said, you developed a left front popping sound in the suspension when hitting certain bumps or road imperfections.
mine started at about 1000 miles. i went to my dealer tonight and recreated the problem by driving over pavement that has a culvert drain cover over a sunken area of the road, like a street. that's the only way i ever heard the popping sound.
the technician called honda. they said they are aware of the problem but have not decided how best to fix it yet since the sedan problem is a recent one as opposed to the coupe which has had the same problem.
so we wait and see.
otherwise, this car is a blast.
but a funny thing happened to my trade-in back in June: it was an '05 Accord coupe 4 cyl with only 12,000 miles on it. it was sold a couple weeks later, and then 3 days after that, the tranny fell out of it! i never ever had a problem. too weird. guess i was meant to get rid of it, and lucky for me i did when i did.
My suspension pops, I've worn a hole into the floormat, and I'm in the serial number range for the wheel bearing/ABS sensor recall. I have 14,000 miles. I also had a notchy third that went away after changing to synchromesh.
My popping noise happens at the same times it sounds like. It doesn't hurt drivability at all, and it doesn't happen frequently. More disconcerting than a true problem.
This Civic will have a tough time matching the reliability of my 95 EX coupe. That car went to 100k with only 2 problems other than normal wear (tires, battery, etc): the passenger side door pull cracked (just drove in a bigger screw with a washer) and the cupholder broke (swapped it with one taken from a junkyard for $30). Lowest maintenance of any car I've ever had.
I have the 07 Civic Si Coupe and am also experiencing a similar issue in 1st Gear. Having had an Integra GS-R with instantaneous response, I am having an issue getting used to the Si's throttle response. From a dead stop on the Si, if I punch the throttle (as you may if straddled on the upside of a hill) the throttle hesitates or bogs. Although I've yet to stall the engine, the car does not respond as you would expect. In traffic that I travel, I many times have to pull into hi-speed lanes from a dead stop. This throttle issue concerns me for safety reasons. Quite frankly, I bought the Si specifically for being able to enter hi-speed traffic safely. Unlike civiclove1, it appears to be more pronounced in my case when the engine is hot (I need to test that theory a bit more).
I have read about the need for an ECU reflash, however, it appears this is only necessary for the 06 Si.
I also went to the Honda Dealer, and of course their know-it-all arrogant attitude was on full display and of course said they had never heard of such a thing...
If anyone has a solution to this issue, please write me at sizroch@comcast.net
I was wondering if anyone could help me out with this. I am looking for a new Honda Civic SI 2008 ( my 97 Civic has about had it). A lot of dealerships have said anytime in Mid-late September, but some have said it may not come out until Nov. or Dec. and I really need a new one soon. So, when did the SI's come out last year and does anyone know when we could actually start to see the 2008's? Also, I am looking for a rally red 4 door sedan with Nav., wonder if I'll have a hard time getting one. What should we be paying for this car, close to MSRP, about $1000 less or closer to invoice (doubt!). Love the test drive in the 2007 model, WAY better than my 97 Civic EX! Thanks for any thoughts anyone has.
I got mine at just a little under sticker, but didn't try to haggle too much and got a good deal on my trade-in. I know they were selling for over sticker when the sedans first hit. I'd expect to pay sticker, or just under if you're expecting the first ones of the year.
Good luck finding one with NAV. They don't make many, and the chances of a local dealer getting one in your color choice will be dicey.
My dealer (in fact all of Houston) didn't have one on the lot when we decided to purchase. The dealer was able to pull up a delivery schedule list showing what cars were slated to be delivered in the Houston area (including the colors and options). They were more than willing to do a trade with another dealer if they were getting just what we wanted. Turns out they were getting a ralley red soon and no one was getting one with ralley red AND Nav. To get one with Nav, we were looking at an unspecified much longer wait. As it was we had to wait 6 weeks for ours to be delivered.
One thing no one has mentioned. Don't expect to be able to get the iPod adapter. Apperently they've been pulled because once they make one, iPod does an update and they no longer work. They have no idea when/if they'll be made again. Right now we're using a Monster FM adapter with mixed results.
bascially, the pro's and con's of each car were outlined in your post, and like some posters have said, forget about what your friends say, and go for what your heart says, as cheesy as that sounds.
the gti has a better powerband, the si has a better sounding engine and exahust note, the gti is def the best long distancer, the si loves the twisties, the gti less so, but it loves the freeway more, and it loves having more than just you in the car.
both cars can do pretty much what the other one can, its just that they do some things the other does a bit better.
i wouldn't worry too much about mkV reliability; its not up to the honda standard, but not nearly as bad as it used to be. (and then you have newer honda's which have had their issues, and suddenly they are this horrible, unreliable company! )
the biggest deal would be maintenence. even though they are both performance vehciles and would naturally require you to eck out a bit more with regards to their more economical siblings, VW's are not cheap to maintain, even if you have no problems with yours.
i like both cars for different reasons. The roadtrip going, torque whore, i-love-a-simple/classy-interior in me says gti, but the sensible, high rpm, backroads hugging honda man in me says the si.
The throttle hanging is just a minor annoyance, you don't need to drive the car any differently because of it.
Torque at low revs is decent for NA 2.0 4cyl, but it isn't anything like the GTI. Generally, consider that you'll need 50% more revs in the Si than the GTI to get similar performance. If you try to accelerate quickly at 3k RPM, you'll be disappointed, but at normal traffic speeds, 4-5k RPM gives decent kick and isn't *that* loud (it is loud, though). It will pull as low as 1500RPMs or so, but, well, it won't pull much and it isn't really meant to be driven with the engine that slow. I normally cruise around 2.5k-3k RPMs, which might sound high, but, seriously, the engine was meant to do it this way. It's smooth as can be imagined, and not very loud at those speeds.
6th gear is quite tall considering where the engine makes its power; you're doing 2500RPM at 55mph. Highway acceleration is economy car-like in 6th, but that's no real surprise. Drop to 5th and it's quite adequate for the majority of uses, and 3rd and 4th are geared *perfectly* for acceleration in to lower highway speeds and higher highway speeds respectively. It's enough in 6th gear that you won't need to downshift to maintain speed up large hills unless the car is loaded down.
You don't need to touch vtec at all in normal driving, except for passing quickly, where you just flick it in to 2nd/3rd/4th, and you're off quite nicely.
There are suspension issues, I have something similar to the popping sound that people have been speaking of, but it doesn't affect driving other than being a sound. Dealer claimed it was nothing when I took it in, I'm just waiting for a TSB or recall on it now.
Overall, the Si is not a quiet car, though it is reasonable if you keep the revs down and drive normally (which is very, very difficult to do).
The ride is superb for the level of handling the car offers. If you're used to VWs and Audis, the Honda will be a lot firmer, but it is extremely composed, and very comfortable. You do feel all the small bumps on the road, but only in rare circumstances are they jarring.
The biggest difference for you will be in going from small turbo engines to a NA engine that'll put out about the same amount of power; if you don't rev the snot out of the Honda, it won't go very fast. It's more than adequate, mind you, but if you shift at 6000RPM, the 0-60 time in the Si is likely to be similar to a regular Civic; only when you go beyond that does the car actually become truly quick.
When you're in the VTEC range, the Si feels like an insanely light vehicle that you can zip around in to your heart's content. It's a very different feel compared to the VW/Audi weight and torque.
You should probably still give the Speed3 a whirl, though it might not be what you're looking for, it might still win you over. A lot of people really like them.
Oh. I can start it pretty easily in 3rd gear with some careful clutch modulation going *slightly* uphill. I bet I could do it in 4th on flat or slightly downhill road, but I don't want to do that to my clutch.
Yeah my decision still isn't any closer to being made :confuse: . I was recently able to drive a 2006 Si Coupe that is owned by a friend of mine, and here's a few things that I noticed...
The steering is much quicker than in the GTi which makes the Si fun just to drive around town. In contrast, the GTi feels more like a "normal" car, which makes runs to the grocery store feel more...well...normal. I also found the Si to have decent pull at low revs around town. I am used to a 1994 Saab 900S (non-turbo) that had 150hp when it rolled off the assembly line many moons ago. So then, while the Si may not match the GTi for low-end grunt, it feels light and peppy next to my Saab. I loved the interior. The material quality was much better than I expected (I am used to European cars, for the most part), and while I appreciate the simple design of the GTi, the Si struck me as futuristic and interesting. The oval-shaped steering wheel was surprise that I don't think has been mentioned. The shape is subtle enough that I didn't notice it in the pictures, but felt the difference immediately. Back to the GTi, I feel that I would get bored with the its interior quickly. As for the highway ride, I can't really say much about that because I drove the Si around town and on a twisty road (where it was fantastic, by the way), but I can say that I am used to the highway ride of a '94 Saab (lots of wind and road noise, and very bumpy on a 13 year-old suspension). There were several instances where I looked at the speedo in the Si and realized that I was going much faster than I thought, which is a sign of a car that is fairly calm at high speeds. I do take some long trips on which a GTi may be better, but compared to what I'm used to, I think the Si would be fine. The GTi still has some pluses though: I know it may sound silly, but a draw for me with the GTi is the fact that it has xenon headlamps, which the Si does not. I'm also curious about the DSG. I am used to driving manuals and have always enjoyed having a clutch and shifter, but I am somehow drawn to the paddle-shifting. Has anyone tried this who is used to a manual? Do you think I would miss the clutch? Also, does anyone know if you can install xenon-type bulbs in the Si? I notice that many production cars have these types of bulbs (Older Acura TL's, Escalade, Navigator, etc.)? Thanks for all your help everyone!
You can buy HIR 9012 bulbs for $25 each, plus get the factory foglights (and some 30 mil film to protect them from someone like Lamin-x) and fine tune the headlight adjustment and you should have lighting that is as good as many HID equipped cars. Edmunds rated the headlights of the two in a comparison test last year and the GTi had marginally better headlights. Installing retrofit HIDs that actually work is around a $1000+ proposition.
Well after some thought I think I've finally come to a decision...
While the Si represents better value over the GTi, has quicker steering, and the promise of Honda reliability, I think I'm going to have to go with the GTi.
Here's why...I've always been a fan of European simplicity and class, and the GTi has that in spades. The interior is not as interesting as the Si, but it has lots of little touches that make it feel special (guages, flat-bottom wheel, plaid seats). I also am a fan of the GTi's more usable power band and the DSG gearbox. Sure, it doesn't have the handling of the Si, but it still likes to have a play. Finally, I've always been a hatchback fan (current car is a Saab 900), and I think I would have a tough time adjusting to a sedan-type car.
My next step is to look for an '07 GTi that a dealer wants to unload to make room for the '08's. Thanks for all your help...sorry I decided to go against the Honda. I still think the Si is a great car, and I recognize that it is better than the GTi at many things, but for my situation and tastes, the GTi wins.
I realize you've already made your decision, but here's my review anyway...
I bought an '07 Si Sedan after test-driving the GTI and Mini Cooper S.
The Mini is definitely the sports car of the bunch. It feels the quickest, has ample power everywhere on the tach, has heavy, quick, direct steering, and has amazing handling. The ride is stiff but not unreasonable. The interior is just too quirky for me (the turn signals would drive me insane very quickly), and in the end I couldn't justify a 2-door with a tiny, tiny back seat.
The GTI feels the most "mature". It has a very refined interior, comfy seats, and lots of interior space. I didn't find the ride or noise levels to be that different from the Si (unless you're talking about an Si above 6K rpms, which is a different story...). The steering feels well-weighted and direct, but distinctly slower than the Si. Then there's VW reliability. After 50K miles, who knows how often the GTI will be in the shop?
The Si has everything I was looking for and is several thousand less than a comparably-equipped Mini or GTI. It has very quick, direct steering. The effort is a touch lighter than the others, but still offers plenty of road feel. It corners very flat and has ample grip (and I have the all-seasons). The ride is pretty firm (though I wouldn't say "harsh", but on long road trips I'd probably opt for our Passat wagon. It isn't the quietest car on the road (you definitely hear the exhaust note even at low rpms), but it's liveable. I actually like the interior, including the gauge setup. I think it's more legible than the GTI (and WAY better than the Cooper). The seats are the most comfortable of the three, in my opinion (though I wouldn't mind adjustable lumbar support...) and really hug you in the turns. The trunk is quite roomy, and the back seat is perfectly fine. The shifter has the shortest throws of the three and has very good feel, but can be notchy at times, and 6th is hard to find. Also, third gear has been an issue with many Si owners. I've heard that changing the transmission fluid improves things considerably. Power down low is pretty good, but not earth-shattering. Shift at 3000-3500 and you'll get 28+ mpg. Shifting at 3500-5000 rpms feels very sporty and good for normal driving. Above 6000+ rpms, the driving experience is TOTALLY transformed. You feel like you're driving a $20K Ferrari, if such a thing existed. The engine screams like a race car, the scenery blurs, and you just hang on until the shift light starts to blink... it's completely addictive. The others I test drove just didn't grab me the way the Si did, and in the end that (coupled with better value) was what sold me.
hey no problems man! the gti is a great car, i have a love for both honda's and vw's and both the gti and si are great at certain things.
even though i love the high rpm thrills and flat cornering of the si, the gti's powerband, stability and classiness are unmatched.
if its of any consolation, i had a mkV rabbit, and i drove her to 28k without any problems. VW really upped reliability with the MkV's, even if it still falls short of honda standards.
I have a lot of experiences lately where traffic is moving about 10-20mph less than the speed limit, and the sleepy drivers in traffic are wondering what Civic-looking thing just flew past them.
they accord will be a bit quicker, but it wont handle nearly as well. depends on your priorites. I'd get the civic, but thats because i prefer tossability to out right speed.
For those who still want it the USASpec PA11-HON2Y adaptor still works. It can work with the XM radio. It's cheaper but Honda is working on a new ipod adaptor.
MSRP with Dest., Wheel Locks, Splash Guards, Auto D/N Mirror/Compass with Attachment, and Trunk Tray $22,477. Paid $21,800 (w/o options would have been $21,000). Went ahead and paid $299 up front as well for lifetime window tint once the vehicle arrives (Rallye Red). Loaner car and free car washes from dealer. 2.9% for 36 mos.. Relatively painless process. Original price quote was $25,000! Another quote from another dealer was $22,500 without any options. Two dealers failed to offer a price by mid-afternoon today following request from yesterday evening.
Congrats! Hope you'll share your dealership experiences on our Dealer Ratings & Reviews page - that would be a great help to other consumers in your area.
what state are you from? im in the ny/nj area & i have a quote for $21335 (including dest but before taxes and fees and no nav/summer tires). u think thats a good deal or i can do better?
In the Austin, TX area, there are 5 Honda dealerships. None of them ever have an SI sedan around to even LOOK at, let alone test drive. Either no one wants one and so Honda doesn't produce that many, or they are so hot that there is no inventory. I know the answer is the latter, but anytime there is an SI sedan around, it's always in Galaxy Grey. Not a bad color, but not my choice. There is never black, ralley red, or blue. I don't think I've even ever seen a blue one!
Are profit margins much better on Accord? Because there are plenty of 2008 Accords on the lots, but no SI sedans. If they're hot, why don't they produce more? I would love to buy one, but just because it's a great car doesn't mean it's great for me - I have to be able to test drive and make sure the car fits me.
I stopped by a local Honda dealership in N. Texas one afternoon after work and they had a Si Sedan on the lot but the sales person never offered to get the keys, offer a test drive, etc. (guess Jeff Gordon and Jimmie Johnson are making R. Hendrick enough money to where he doesn't need to sell vehicles). I ended up buying from another dealership in Frisco, Texas. Just heard from the sales person earlier this week that it had been made and that they anticipated arrival on Halloween if everything went according to schedule. When I purchased it I was told that they had one "in route" and that it would be in over the next 2 weeks. Don't know where the truth lies but I don't mind having it built just for little 'ol me during my mid-life crisis.
cz75, I'm in Birmingham (Hueytown). I can back you up on their Si inventory here in town. Serra Honda (which is literally in my backyard) has more than one on the lot.
at $1500, i don't think it's worth it. i bought a garmin nuvi 660 for $600 and i love it! the best part is that you can take it with you in any car. i've even used it to navigate new york city on foot. built in navi systems are a waste, i think.
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2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
I got exactly the same problem. It gets very bad when it is hot outside and it is almost gone when it is cooler and rainy.
The people at the dealership first admited that they hear the noise, later they denied saying that they don't hear anything unusual and that they are not going to do anything about it. I have filed a complaint with Honda America and now I am waiting for them to see it. Can you please give me an advice what to tell a Honda rep when he sees the car and I am not able to duplicate the noise?
Another issue... the plastic shelf behind the rear seats has a crack coming from the hole where the seat belt is coming through. I didn't notice it until about four months after buying the car. Now the dealer tells me that I abused it and they are not going to replace it! I don't know what to do about it. Noone has ever sat in the back of the car...
I appreciate your comments!
Looks: To my eyes, the GTI looks better with its sophisticated styling and almost-Audi classiness (Beauty is in the eye of the beholder).
Handling: Si takes this one hands down. The steering is much more direct than the GTi
Power: The GTi wins due its torque advantage and more usable powerband, though its worth saying that the Si is a hoot about 6k rpm, and it still has decent pull around town.
Price: Si is MUCH cheaper than the GTi, and this price difference would mean that I could swing a Navi system, whereas in the GTi, I can't.
Space: Tie. The Si has a better back seat while the GTi has a better trunk with ski pass-through.
Interior: Tie Again. The GTi is classy, but also a bit boring. I feel like it would age well, but it's not all that exciting. The Si on the other hand looks like a spaceship and has quality similar to that of the GTi, but something tells me it will look dated quickly.
I've been trying to find a clear winner for quite sometime, and I still don't know. Do I pay more for a car with a trick transmission and a more upscale feel, or do I pay less for something that is more entertaining in the twisties but less of a long-distance machine? Any help would be great! Thanks!
Hondas seem to be fairly bulletproof and I've owned 2 Civics and both were bland to drive but very very reliable. Newer Hondas might be more fun to drive (I haven't driven one in quite a while) but they really are bulletproof and that says a lot about a car.
Just curious if you've looked at a Mazdaspeed 3?
I have a friend who is considering one and it's like $23K MSRP! The MS3 is a sick car, I'd be very tempted if they offered it in white.
I'd like to know.
So far my only complaints are:
Some popping from the suspension. It rides well for a performance car (much better than my 99 Mustang Cobra did). We have really rough streets where I live and it only does it at really slow speeds with fairly big bumps/holes.
The exhaust is fairly loud inside the car. Louder than the stock pipes on my Cobra. Most of the time I like the sound. Sometimes it gets annoying.
The interior is hard to keep looking clean and new. The black shows dust/dirt/hair easily. The black seats love to pickup lint. My wife took some friends out one night, one of which was wearing a pink sweater. I almost had a heart attack when I got in and saw my seat had a hot pink tint to it. The black plastic on the inside of the door scuffs easily and shows it badly.
All in all, the car is really great. It's amazing how far the Civic has come since I had my 95 EX coupe.
As a reply to the other post(s), I guess the throttle hang isn't so much a problem as an annoying feature. Are there any other known issues with the Si? I've had a look at the GTi forums, and it seems like the DSG is better than it was in the first A3's, but I'm still hearing about some problems.
Another couple questions, how is the highway cruise in the Si. Quiet? Smooth Ride? Does the 6th gear help keep the revs down and the engine calm? How is the torque at low revs? Can you drive around normally, doing all of the normal A to B chores without going into VTECH. Please forgive all of these questions...This is the first Honda that I have ever really been interested in, and most of my car knowledge lies with Saabs and Audis.
Thanks for the help!
Quiet? Very. Even just sitting at a light, the noise level with the windows down vs. windows up is significant. pretty quiet even at cruising speeds on the freeway.
Smooth? Reasonably. If you're going over kinda uneven roads, you'll definitely feel it, but on normal driving, it's great. Stiff enough to let you feel the road, but pretty smooth overall ride.
6th gear is fairly tall, in normal driving I take it from about 63 mph at 2800 rpms to ~80 mph at 3600 rpms, and 100 mph at around 4800 rpms. About the Si's rpms, remember that this engine is designed to drive with higher rpms... I normally don't let them go below ~2500, and (again in normal driving, i.e., non-vtec-fun-time ) shift at around 3500 rpms.
About the i-VTEC, remember that it is ALWAYS engaged, anytime you start being aggressive with your driving (flooring it, etc.). With that said, I drive around town ALL THE TIME without kicking the VTEC into high gear... As I said above, just normal driving with reasonable shift points, that will keep the VTEC fairly quiet.
Torque is pretty good at the low end (sub-2800 rpms) and the high end (6000+ rpms). In the middle it's marginal, but just fine as long as you're not loaded down with a car full of people. If you have 1-3 people in the car, you can still pull some good performance. With 4 or 5, you definitely notice an unfortunate lack of adequate torque... :sick:
ALSO... (sorry, this post is REAL long...) I test-drove the GTI before I bought my Si. Although I agree that the greater power in the GTI was nice, my main turn-offs were the price and a somewhat shoddy reputation for VW reliability over the long-term. I plan to keep my Si for at least 7-8 years or so, so as a college student, I wanted a car that would be happy and healthy over the long haul. Personally, though I look back with joy at that 'Launch Mode' of theirs, the GTI was really not what I wanted, and the SI was perfect in every respect for what I was after. Light/compact, good mileage, respectable/fun performance, and a nice appearance.
Or did you mean that I show proof that Honda still tops VW - that's as close as JD Power and Consumer Reports.
The reality is that when all is said and done what you should do is buy the car you like the most. Forget all the magazines and advice from friends etc....
When you sit in the car and you just really enjoy it that's the car you buy. The one you don't have any regrets buying when you drive out of the dealership.
You've narrowed it down to 2 cars so buy the one you like the best, drive them a few more times and be happy with what you buy. It's really that simple.
Defects in the front suspension, bad struts, poor paint quality, easily worn/damaged interior materials, recalls for defective rear wheel bearing seals, etc
Though, paint is chipping from 80mph @#$%^ I-5 construction.
as some of you have said, you developed a left front popping sound in the suspension when hitting certain bumps or road imperfections.
mine started at about 1000 miles. i went to my dealer tonight and recreated the problem by driving over pavement that has a culvert drain cover over a sunken area of the road, like a street. that's the only way i ever heard the popping sound.
the technician called honda. they said they are aware of the problem but have not decided how best to fix it yet since the sedan problem is a recent one as opposed to the coupe which has had the same problem.
so we wait and see.
otherwise, this car is a blast.
but a funny thing happened to my trade-in back in June: it was an '05 Accord coupe 4 cyl with only 12,000 miles on it. it was sold a couple weeks later, and then 3 days after that, the tranny fell out of it! i never ever had a problem. too weird. guess i was meant to get rid of it, and lucky for me i did when i did.
This Civic will have a tough time matching the reliability of my 95 EX coupe. That car went to 100k with only 2 problems other than normal wear (tires, battery, etc): the passenger side door pull cracked (just drove in a bigger screw with a washer) and the cupholder broke (swapped it with one taken from a junkyard for $30). Lowest maintenance of any car I've ever had.
I have read about the need for an ECU reflash, however, it appears this is only necessary for the 06 Si.
I also went to the Honda Dealer, and of course their know-it-all arrogant attitude was on full display and of course said they had never heard of such a thing...
If anyone has a solution to this issue, please write me at sizroch@comcast.net
Thanks
Good luck finding one with NAV. They don't make many, and the chances of a local dealer getting one in your color choice will be dicey.
My dealer (in fact all of Houston) didn't have one on the lot when we decided to purchase. The dealer was able to pull up a delivery schedule list showing what cars were slated to be delivered in the Houston area (including the colors and options). They were more than willing to do a trade with another dealer if they were getting just what we wanted. Turns out they were getting a ralley red soon and no one was getting one with ralley red AND Nav. To get one with Nav, we were looking at an unspecified much longer wait. As it was we had to wait 6 weeks for ours to be delivered.
One thing no one has mentioned. Don't expect to be able to get the iPod adapter. Apperently they've been pulled because once they make one, iPod does an update and they no longer work. They have no idea when/if they'll be made again. Right now we're using a Monster FM adapter with mixed results.
bascially, the pro's and con's of each car were outlined in your post, and like some posters have said, forget about what your friends say, and go for what your heart says, as cheesy as that sounds.
the gti has a better powerband, the si has a better sounding engine and exahust note, the gti is def the best long distancer, the si loves the twisties, the gti less so, but it loves the freeway more, and it loves having more than just you in the car.
both cars can do pretty much what the other one can, its just that they do some things the other does a bit better.
i wouldn't worry too much about mkV reliability; its not up to the honda standard, but not nearly as bad as it used to be. (and then you have newer honda's which have had their issues, and suddenly they are this horrible, unreliable company!
the biggest deal would be maintenence. even though they are both performance vehciles and would naturally require you to eck out a bit more with regards to their more economical siblings, VW's are not cheap to maintain, even if you have no problems with yours.
i like both cars for different reasons. The roadtrip going, torque whore, i-love-a-simple/classy-interior in me says gti, but the sensible, high rpm, backroads hugging honda man in me says the si.
Torque at low revs is decent for NA 2.0 4cyl, but it isn't anything like the GTI. Generally, consider that you'll need 50% more revs in the Si than the GTI to get similar performance. If you try to accelerate quickly at 3k RPM, you'll be disappointed, but at normal traffic speeds, 4-5k RPM gives decent kick and isn't *that* loud (it is loud, though). It will pull as low as 1500RPMs or so, but, well, it won't pull much and it isn't really meant to be driven with the engine that slow. I normally cruise around 2.5k-3k RPMs, which might sound high, but, seriously, the engine was meant to do it this way. It's smooth as can be imagined, and not very loud at those speeds.
6th gear is quite tall considering where the engine makes its power; you're doing 2500RPM at 55mph. Highway acceleration is economy car-like in 6th, but that's no real surprise. Drop to 5th and it's quite adequate for the majority of uses, and 3rd and 4th are geared *perfectly* for acceleration in to lower highway speeds and higher highway speeds respectively. It's enough in 6th gear that you won't need to downshift to maintain speed up large hills unless the car is loaded down.
You don't need to touch vtec at all in normal driving, except for passing quickly, where you just flick it in to 2nd/3rd/4th, and you're off quite nicely.
There are suspension issues, I have something similar to the popping sound that people have been speaking of, but it doesn't affect driving other than being a sound. Dealer claimed it was nothing when I took it in, I'm just waiting for a TSB or recall on it now.
Overall, the Si is not a quiet car, though it is reasonable if you keep the revs down and drive normally (which is very, very difficult to do).
The ride is superb for the level of handling the car offers. If you're used to VWs and Audis, the Honda will be a lot firmer, but it is extremely composed, and very comfortable. You do feel all the small bumps on the road, but only in rare circumstances are they jarring.
The biggest difference for you will be in going from small turbo engines to a NA engine that'll put out about the same amount of power; if you don't rev the snot out of the Honda, it won't go very fast. It's more than adequate, mind you, but if you shift at 6000RPM, the 0-60 time in the Si is likely to be similar to a regular Civic; only when you go beyond that does the car actually become truly quick.
When you're in the VTEC range, the Si feels like an insanely light vehicle that you can zip around in to your heart's content. It's a very different feel compared to the VW/Audi weight and torque.
You should probably still give the Speed3 a whirl, though it might not be what you're looking for, it might still win you over. A lot of people really like them.
Oh. I can start it pretty easily in 3rd gear with some careful clutch modulation going *slightly* uphill. I bet I could do it in 4th on flat or slightly downhill road, but I don't want to do that to my clutch.
The steering is much quicker than in the GTi which makes the Si fun just to drive around town. In contrast, the GTi feels more like a "normal" car, which makes runs to the grocery store feel more...well...normal. I also found the Si to have decent pull at low revs around town. I am used to a 1994 Saab 900S (non-turbo) that had 150hp when it rolled off the assembly line many moons ago. So then, while the Si may not match the GTi for low-end grunt, it feels light and peppy next to my Saab. I loved the interior. The material quality was much better than I expected (I am used to European cars, for the most part), and while I appreciate the simple design of the GTi, the Si struck me as futuristic and interesting. The oval-shaped steering wheel was surprise that I don't think has been mentioned. The shape is subtle enough that I didn't notice it in the pictures, but felt the difference immediately. Back to the GTi, I feel that I would get bored with the its interior quickly. As for the highway ride, I can't really say much about that because I drove the Si around town and on a twisty road (where it was fantastic, by the way), but I can say that I am used to the highway ride of a '94 Saab (lots of wind and road noise, and very bumpy on a 13 year-old suspension). There were several instances where I looked at the speedo in the Si and realized that I was going much faster than I thought, which is a sign of a car that is fairly calm at high speeds. I do take some long trips on which a GTi may be better, but compared to what I'm used to, I think the Si would be fine.
The GTi still has some pluses though: I know it may sound silly, but a draw for me with the GTi is the fact that it has xenon headlamps, which the Si does not. I'm also curious about the DSG. I am used to driving manuals and have always enjoyed having a clutch and shifter, but I am somehow drawn to the paddle-shifting. Has anyone tried this who is used to a manual? Do you think I would miss the clutch? Also, does anyone know if you can install xenon-type bulbs in the Si? I notice that many production cars have these types of bulbs (Older Acura TL's, Escalade, Navigator, etc.)? Thanks for all your help everyone!
the steering is lighting fast on the si, plus, despite the torque disadvantage, it weighs significantly less than the gti, hence the nimbleness.
the gti has a great interior, but just like my rabbit, its a bit stark, and you will tire of it more quickly.
While the Si represents better value over the GTi, has quicker steering, and the promise of Honda reliability, I think I'm going to have to go with the GTi.
Here's why...I've always been a fan of European simplicity and class, and the GTi has that in spades. The interior is not as interesting as the Si, but it has lots of little touches that make it feel special (guages, flat-bottom wheel, plaid seats). I also am a fan of the GTi's more usable power band and the DSG gearbox. Sure, it doesn't have the handling of the Si, but it still likes to have a play. Finally, I've always been a hatchback fan (current car is a Saab 900), and I think I would have a tough time adjusting to a sedan-type car.
My next step is to look for an '07 GTi that a dealer wants to unload to make room for the '08's. Thanks for all your help...sorry I decided to go against the Honda. I still think the Si is a great car, and I recognize that it is better than the GTi at many things, but for my situation and tastes, the GTi wins.
I bought an '07 Si Sedan after test-driving the GTI and Mini Cooper S.
The Mini is definitely the sports car of the bunch. It feels the quickest, has ample power everywhere on the tach, has heavy, quick, direct steering, and has amazing handling. The ride is stiff but not unreasonable. The interior is just too quirky for me (the turn signals would drive me insane very quickly), and in the end I couldn't justify a 2-door with a tiny, tiny back seat.
The GTI feels the most "mature". It has a very refined interior, comfy seats, and lots of interior space. I didn't find the ride or noise levels to be that different from the Si (unless you're talking about an Si above 6K rpms, which is a different story...). The steering feels well-weighted and direct, but distinctly slower than the Si. Then there's VW reliability. After 50K miles, who knows how often the GTI will be in the shop?
The Si has everything I was looking for and is several thousand less than a comparably-equipped Mini or GTI. It has very quick, direct steering. The effort is a touch lighter than the others, but still offers plenty of road feel. It corners very flat and has ample grip (and I have the all-seasons). The ride is pretty firm (though I wouldn't say "harsh", but on long road trips I'd probably opt for our Passat wagon. It isn't the quietest car on the road (you definitely hear the exhaust note even at low rpms), but it's liveable. I actually like the interior, including the gauge setup. I think it's more legible than the GTI (and WAY better than the Cooper). The seats are the most comfortable of the three, in my opinion (though I wouldn't mind adjustable lumbar support...) and really hug you in the turns. The trunk is quite roomy, and the back seat is perfectly fine. The shifter has the shortest throws of the three and has very good feel, but can be notchy at times, and 6th is hard to find. Also, third gear has been an issue with many Si owners. I've heard that changing the transmission fluid improves things considerably. Power down low is pretty good, but not earth-shattering. Shift at 3000-3500 and you'll get 28+ mpg. Shifting at 3500-5000 rpms feels very sporty and good for normal driving. Above 6000+ rpms, the driving experience is TOTALLY transformed. You feel like you're driving a $20K Ferrari, if such a thing existed. The engine screams like a race car, the scenery blurs, and you just hang on until the shift light starts to blink... it's completely addictive. The others I test drove just didn't grab me the way the Si did, and in the end that (coupled with better value) was what sold me.
even though i love the high rpm thrills and flat cornering of the si, the gti's powerband, stability and classiness are unmatched.
if its of any consolation, i had a mkV rabbit, and i drove her to 28k without any problems. VW really upped reliability with the MkV's, even if it still falls short of honda standards.
Good luck - let us know how it goes.
Are profit margins much better on Accord? Because there are plenty of 2008 Accords on the lots, but no SI sedans. If they're hot, why don't they produce more? I would love to buy one, but just because it's a great car doesn't mean it's great for me - I have to be able to test drive and make sure the car fits me.
Frustrated :mad: :sick: :confuse: