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Classic? Collectible? Special Interest? Just Old?

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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well, it's a nice enough ride for $1,600, but generally speaking, the early 1980s was not the high point for American cars.

    If you buy it, just plan to use it and enjoy it. I don't see it having an collector car value now or in the future. Nothing wrong with buying what you like, that's important!
  • deniziodenizio Member Posts: 1
    hello
    i have 2 1970 saab cars ( both model 96)for sale.one runs great the other is a parts car.i would like to sell both.
    dave
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Why not tell us something about them? Price, location, etc.?
  • wzulauf36wzulauf36 Member Posts: 1
    I have a 86 LeBaron Town & Country conv. This model has wood trim, designer leather interion, all the goodies and a 2.2L turbo engine. I have been told there were only 500 of this model made. They were used to introduce the Town & Country line but the production converts. did not have the wood trim. Any info would be appreciated.
  • 5rileys5rileys Member Posts: 1
    My first post. My husband is interested in a 74 Dodge Dart Swinger a mechanic friend is selling. It has a slant six, 52k original miles, is in practically showroom condition with a new paint job. It belonged to a little old lady who barely drove it and has been garaged for the last 8 years. The vinyl top and back tires are dry rotted, but there is no other major work. The asking price is $1,000. We are wondering what this car is really worth and if it is a classic or just an old car. Please advise, thanks a bunch.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Just an old car. The only older American cars that are likely to appreciate much in value are a) open cars and b)muscle cars with high horsepower engines. So the Dodge Dart Sport 340 V-8 would be likely to have much more value than a Swinger. A V-8 swinger (smaller V-8 than a 340) might have a bit more value than a 6 cylinder car.

    Prices for older cars are dictated by supply and demand, not rarity, so that's why the big engines are worth so much more. That's what people want.

    The price asked for the Swinger seems fair enough. I'd guess all fixed up like new you'd have a potential value of around $3,000, but not all that many buyers at that price.
  • C13C13 Member Posts: 390
    True, it's just an old car, but some old cars are more charming than others.

    I could see buying a relatively mint-condition, relatively competant, relatively unpretentious little beast myself, rather than a lot of relatively special, historically significant cars that never ran right and had evil handling even when they were new.

    For example, I'd rather have a slant-6 Swinger than its contemporary, a BMW 320i.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well, that's a given...pretty substandard car, the 320i, and nearly worthless today because of its lack of any endearing qualities. The old Darts at least had a basic honesty which is charming in its own way.
  • C13C13 Member Posts: 390
    That vinyl top would hold me back though, even if it weren't rotten.

    To remove it or restore it will add to the price of a car that really needs to remain cheap in order to remain quaint and charming. And restoring a vinyl top is like restoring a polyester suit.

    And of course the buyer would have to be content with 'quaint' and 'charming'. If the buyer is looking for 'classic' or something, this is the wrong car.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    There does seem to be a small market for "cheap and cheerful" old cars...they won't ever be worth a great deal, and less than their restoration costs, like say for example a 1948 Chevy 4-door, or even a 1928 Ford Model A 4-door. Although 52 and 72 years old respectively, each be bought comparatively cheaply given their age, well under $10,000 for a beauty, often under $5,000 for a good running albeit a little tatty car). I think it's safe to say that if a car is only worth $5,000 after 72 years, it's really not going anywhere--but it still brings pleasure to its owner, hopefully.
  • md_techmd_tech Member Posts: 84
    I was wondering do you have any info on old 76 Bugs. My husband had one years ago but his parents sold it one day and he was heart-broken. Now I'm on a secret mission to find an old bug buy it and hopefully restore it with him for our son. Our son is only 4 months old so I have time.

    Please Can You Help,
    Kristina
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I think you could find one pretty cheap...the "newer" bugs are Super Beetles and as such are not as desirable as the older 60s bugs. But parts are plentiful and cheap and you can restore one for a lot less than just about any other car. Sounds like a fun project!
  • seansean Member Posts: 2
    I just purchased a 1973 Mustang Grande. I did this because the car was a great buy and i have never seen one before. I wanted to find out how many were made and how many are still in existance.

    Thanks for any help,
    Sean
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    There were (it says in one reference I have) 25,274 Grandes made in 1973.

    No telling really how many are left...they also made them for a few years, so all in all, there are probably a fair number of them around, at least enough to satisfy demand for them at this time.
  • md_techmd_tech Member Posts: 84
    Sorry ,my earlier post was incorrect. I'm looking for a 66 Bug to restore any info????


    Thanks,
    Kristina/co host Our Turn
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Fortunately, older VW bugs are like Model T Fords...they made a gazillion of them so they are plentiful and not too hard to find. '66 is a good year, although I believe 1967 was the first year with a 12 volt system, which is preferred in my opinion...but of course, buy what you like the most!

    Let's see what's in the new June 2000 Hemmings MOtor News....(flip, flip)...looks like the 64-67s are going for about $1,000 solid but unrestored, around $3,500 needed light cosmetics and around $6,000 for a fully restored one.

    SO looks like you'd find a running decent builder for around $1,000-1,500. But I would avoid a rusty car under any circumstances, unless the rust is merely surface (paint worn off). Rust, as you know I'm sure, is like an iceberg...you only see the tip of it.

    Nice thing about older bugs is their simplicity and parts availability, as I mentioned. You can order an entire rebuilt engine delivered to your house for probably no more than $700. Try THAT with a Mercedes Benz (more like $7,000).
  • md_techmd_tech Member Posts: 84
    I'll definitely be looking into that within the next few months. That's not such a bad going price for those little cars. My Dad had the 67 Bug when he first started driving,so this might possibly turn into a group project...

    Kristina/co host Our Turn
  • fsaguyfsaguy Member Posts: 1
    My mom is getting too old to drive and I am trying to find if I should let her sell her '71 Buick Skylark, 4dr, v8, or buy it from her as it may become collectable? Let me know if you need more information.
  • denniswadedenniswade Member Posts: 362
    Are pretty common, so it would be some time before it's worth anything substantial. I'd keep it only if you enjoy driving it once in awhile. I had a '72, and I kept it for those nice Sunday morning cruises -- I'd take the freeway just to go get the paper and a gallon of milk!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yes, that's good advice denniswade....I'd even put in more strongly...4-door cars just don't get valuable, period, unless they are special coachbuilt cars (Rolls, Bentley, etc) or, on rare occasion, if they have Hemi engines, etc (muscle cars).

    The /71 Skylark is a durable car, but you'd be old and gray before it would be worth any more than it is now, and even then the rise in value would only be inflationary adjustments. Drive it and use it up if you'd like, but don't restore it or "save" it. As Dennis says, it was a very common car and since values are determined by supply and demand, there are many more of them out there than people want to collect.
  • denniswadedenniswade Member Posts: 362
    Yeah, I'm afraid Shifty is right -- I didn't notice it was a 4dr. Mine was a 2dr and pretty well optioned, and it was worth only about $2k right here in LA.
  • stormdavystormdavy Member Posts: 80
    Don't own this car, but saw it for sale $1,500 obo and visually it fits the term 'cheap & cheerful'. Has a straight six, and repaired floor panels. Best of all it's painted that early 60's aqua that defined an era. What character in the styling! Projects strength, honesty, wide-eyed innocence. Wrap-around rear glass, neat 'folded' fins. Body looks to be solid, though would take a more careful look if buying. Just a thought as alternative to a used blend-in-the-crowd Accord, etc., for a runabout and rolling design primer...
  • pamela10pamela10 Member Posts: 1
    I would like to know the current market value
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    It depends greatly on the engine, the options, the condition and the originality of the car. All these things make a big difference in price. If it's a run of the mill 351 in nice, average condition, maybe $10K, if it's a CobraJet showcar with all the goodies, could go $30K or more.
  • cuellcuell Member Posts: 1
    Hi Mr Shiftright. I'm in love with the looks of 69 Firebird but, I don't have a clue about the car's reliability, maintenance, safety and cost. I don't need a total show car but one that runs and looks good. I just moved to California and I'm buying my first car ever so I'm a little scare about paying that much money for a lemon or future headache. I been all over the net and books but I can't get information that can help me decide. How do I go about this?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    You might want this great little book, called the "Camaro White Book, 1967-1993". It's $11.95 and I think Amazon has it. If not, the publisher is:

    Michael Bruce Associates
    PO Box 396
    Powell, Ohio 43065

    For pricing info, you can check in here when you've found something that you can describe in detail to us.

    These earlier Camaros are pretty simple and reliable cars. What you need to watch out for is cars that have been modified or faked. I'd say the best buy would be a 69 with the 350 V8 and automatic. It's a good performer and has a rugged drivetrain.

    good luck in your search,

    Shifty
  • speedshiftspeedshift Member Posts: 1,598
    Just out of curiousity, why did you recommend that particular Camaro? By the way, I think Cuell's looking for a Firebird.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Same-same car really....

    I recommended the 350 because you get almost the same performance as the big block for a lot less money...so that's what I was thinking.
  • speedshiftspeedshift Member Posts: 1,598
    I don't have the quarter mile times handy, but there's probably not enough difference between a 396/325 and a 350/300 to justify the poorer handling and economy of the big block, at least in a street car.
  • sonny15sonny15 Member Posts: 1
    Mr. Shiftright,

    My family has a 1940 Cadillac, 40-60 Special, 4-door, black with 14,000+ miles, that supposedly was used in one of the "Godfather" movies. I'm trying to identify the best method for determining its value. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
  • jenkinsrlrjenkinsrlr Member Posts: 1
    Can anyone help me find a 65 Rambler Marlin? This is a very unique car. It resembles the 65 Dodge Charger except the headlights are different and the taillight are on the corners verses all the way across the back like the charger. I know very few were built before Chrysler bought the rights to the body style.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I found one with the "Google" search engine:

    image


    It's for sale, too at this URL:

    http://www.cars-on-line.com/65marlin2481.html


    It is a unique looking car, not what most think of as beautiful, but definitely distinctive in its own 1960s way. You should be able to find a very nice one for not a lot of money, so shop a lot and bargain hard for a deal.
  • swestcottswestcott Member Posts: 1
    can anyone tell me what a 1975 in, scout is worth?
    it has a 350 sb chevy, a 2in body lift, orig rear end, and 4wheel drive, new int, new paint comp,yellow, it is in very good shape.
    I paid 1,000$ for it before it had been rebuilt.
    was that to much?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    No,that was an okay price because you're paying not for its collector car value (it has ZERO) but for a working 4X4...so in terms of utility you got a good deal I think.
  • wheelleswheelles Member Posts: 4
    I have a dilemma and need some advice. I own a 1992 Toyota Celica ST. It's a coupe with a rear spoiler.

    I purchased this car new and drove it for a couple of years. It's been in storage for several years now.

    It has 17,000 miles on it, has never seen snow and salt, and has no rust. Between storage fees and depreciation, it currently would be a financial disaster to sell. How old must a car be before it's considered a classic car and could this car attain that classification, or value to a collector, and worth if I keep it? (What
    would it be worth?) Otherwise, what's my best strategy for disposing it at this time?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    In your case the car really has little potential as a collector car, as it is mass-produced in large numbers and is also Japanese, which traditionally do poorly in the collector car market anyway. So that angle is really out of the question. The longer you keep it, the less it will be worth.

    This being the case, you need to sell as soon as possible. Given the low miles, you might try an E-Bay auction, which will cost you about $50...you might get (I've seen this) people paying over blue book because of the low miles. I think this would be your best bet.
  • mdelrossomdelrosso Member Posts: 18
    Mr Shiftright, I recently purchased a '78 Coupe de ville Caddy as an everyday driver. the car has only 80000 mls. on it, and is in pretty good condition (#3 I guess). Anyone have any idea what the future potential could be for this one. Thanks
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I'd say very limited potential for future value, but the car has probably gone as low as it's going to go, so it may creep up with inflation and at least retain some value. This is better than some cars of the 70s, which will sink into worthlessness because nobody wants them. There will always be a few buyers that want a nice ride and a big car for a reasonable price. But don't plan on the car as an "investment"--you'd be much better off with a 5% CD.
  • keith125keith125 Member Posts: 4
    Mr Shiftright, I own a 1964 Oldsmobile 98 Hearse. My Chilton says that the engine identification is located on the driver side head above the center port and should start with an H or T to denote 394cid or 330cid. My engine is stamped at that location but it's a J. I've checked with 442.com and other places but just can't seem to indentify this code. Please help. The full code is J 562899.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Hmmm...well, I'm on the road right now, so why don't you send me your comments again by e-mail and when I get back to the office I'll look this up for you, okay?

    joetro@pacbell.net
    mr_shiftright@edmunds.com
  • keith125keith125 Member Posts: 4
    Thank you for the info. There's a metal tag attached to the driver side wheel well. It says Cotner/Bevington and has the date 2/6/64 and a color code. My understanding is that C/B took the olds 98(and others) and completed the custom body work(leading) and paint. If that's the case, is it possible that Olds installed the 1963 engine originally since C/B stamped it so early in 64?
  • speedshiftspeedshift Member Posts: 1,598
    I should clear up some confusion I caused by answering your first question. I'm Speedshift, just a civilian like you and not our expert host Shiftright. Shiftright is out of town and away from his books, but he'll be checking in shortly.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    for helping out.

    My books show the J code in 1964 corresponds to a 394cid engine with 10:25 compression and 330 HP...if it were a 345HP it would have an S suffix, and if it were export it would have an E suffix.

    So it's probably a stock engine although we have no way of knowing if it's the original stock engine that went in the car in 1964. In this type of car (commercial) that wouldn't be very important anyway.

    As for pricing, the commercial vehicle market is a small niche and is a bit tricky to peg accurately, but as a general rule I'd say they follow the pricing of the 4-door cars with perhaps a small premium over that for special equipment...but an ambulance or hearse usually won't pull the same money as a two door hardtop or convertible.
  • 99ls40099ls400 Member Posts: 1
    I have a 70 Pontiac Le Mans 400 convertible with only 55000 original miles on it. It has been sitting in my garage for the most of the time in the last 15 years. I had a new top with class window and new upholtsery and a new paint (porch red)put on it. No rust, nor dent. how much is it worth now? whether it worthes keeping?
    Thanks!
  • dpage35925dpage35925 Member Posts: 45
    Looking for a brand new classic built in the USA in 2001.

    www.hometown.aol.com/dpage35925
  • alomchinalomchin Member Posts: 2
    Mr. Shiftright , what can you tell me about caddilac Eldorado 75 . i want to look at it with a 99000 miles , one owner . sugg.price is 1900 . is it reasonable or not . i know this car is big , but how is it tech.strong ? what parts of a car could give me an answer of it shape . where to look? Thank you . Tatiana .
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Basically this is Big American Iron and all you really need to do is have the car thoroughly checked out by a competent garage. If the car passes a strict physical exam, you should be okay with it...what you don't want is to have any problems with the major driveline components, but if they are okay, then it's just a matter of keeping up with periodic repairs and maintenance, like any old car. I think the biggest hassle with an old Cadillac would be if some of the electrical or heater/a/c systems weren't working. So you need to try everything ten times to make sure all components/electrics/heating and a/c are working okay.

    Last of all, don't expect these cars to go up in value unless it is a convertible.

    Shifty your host
  • blume1blume1 Member Posts: 25
    Mr Shiftright, my brother in law has one of these small Dodge Rampage pickups, and we were wondering if they have any collector value?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Oh, this has been mentioned before, and most of us here seemed to think not. I suspect it's one of those "curiosity" type of collectibles, where someone will always want one but they won't want to pay too much for it...like Peugeots, old RX-7s and Shelby Daytonas and the like....oddball cars, relatively bargain prices. So I'd say sort of "collectible" but not a "collector car". Not enough interest on a large scale.
  • northstartnorthstart Member Posts: 41
    Hi! I live in the North East of England and have been offered an early to mid seventies Cadillac Fleetwood. The car is in good overall condition, all of its chrome and trim components on the exterior and interior are present and again in reasonable condition, however, it has stood idle for at least a year and is in need of some TLC therefore I have a few questions!

    1) I’m not sure exactly what year it is, so is there any ‘easy’ way to identify this? The present owner is not really an enthusiast and knows very little about the car. He only bought the car as an advert for his business.

    2)Are there any known weak areas of the car, either mechanically or bodywork wise that I should be aware of?

    3)And what was the earliest model year, which could run on lead free fuel. Leaded fuel is no longer available over here in the UK and replacement fuels are very expensive (over $7 per gallon) so this has to be taken into consideration

    I know that the mid seventies Cadillac’s havn’t got the street cred that 50’s and 60’s models bring, however I’m not buying the car with the intention of making a profit somewhere down the line, I just think it would make a nice weekend cruiser. Not to mention this is a lot of car for the money, and here in the UK it’s different enough at least to have some street cred.

    As most of my experience with American cars has been limited mainly to Fords, Lincolns and Chrysler’s any advise would be most appreciated.
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