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Hyundai Santa Fe vs Toyota RAV4 vs Mazda CX-7 vs Ford Edge
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Yes, it's not 1985 anymore, but american car makers still haven't figured out how to make good cars. Yes, the fusion is doing well, but that's just a lonely, isolated example. The american buyer, by and large, has figured out that Toyota/Nissan/Honda/Mazda/Hyundai, as a group, far outstrip the American Big 3, in terms of reliability and quality. The numbers speak for themselves. Why do you think the American Big 3 are loosing their shirts in the market place? Hmmmm? It's because Toyota, who for the first time, dominates. It's quality and reliability. Period. And as for the Edge, look at the early figures...It's not doing so well.
I rest my case.
Vince. :shades:
The fusion is not a lonely, isolated case. All of the new Ford products introduced in the last 3 years have proven very reliable (Mustang, F150, Fusion, 500/Taurus). Same with GM. Not sure about Chrysler.
Welcome to 2007.
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/SavingandDebt/SaveonaCar/MostDependableCar.- aspx
Vince.
Once I've decided on a particular class of car that I'm interested in (size, style, price, etc.), then I can research to see how the various models in this class compare in reliability. I have to take into account that vehicles are constantly being refined and may have a different reliability than a model 2 or 3 years ago. Of course, whatever the statistics say, it's difficult to ignore what my past experiences have been with various brands as well as those of friends and family. Sometimes it's impossible to stay objective.
Finally, the reliability is just one factor in selecting a vehicle. I have to balance reliability with feature sets, looks, mileage/performance, safety, comfort, and pricing before I can arrive at my final decision (not necessarily weighted in that order). The car company that can give me the best complete "package" is the one that gets my business. While I grew up in a "Ford family" with my father working at Ford and us always having purchased Ford brands, the winning packages for me over the past 15 years have been supplied by non-domestic brands.
The real winner is the consumer. Competition has caused cars today to be significantly better than those of just 10 years ago, regardless of brand.
If they used weights then someone would just argue that the weights are wrong.
The point here isn't that one brand is better than the other - only that the statement that domestic brands are much worse than the Japanese brands is absolutely not true anymore.
Someone replied earlier that the reason they wouldn't buy a Ford Edge was that it was 500lbs heavier than a similar [non-permissible content removed] vehicle. To me, heavier equals sturdier, stronger materials, longer lasting. Basically the opposite of every [non-permissible content removed] vehicle I have ever sat in. What would you rather be driving when you get t-boned on the highway? My choice is always going to be the heavier vehicle.
I have owned a Honda, 2 Pontiacs, 4 Fords, a Chevy and a Hummer H3. Which one do you think had the most problems? The HONDA!!!!! The frame by the drivers side rear wheel somehow decided to crack completely in half for no reason, the radio stopped working which required the whole dash to be pulled out to replace a $10 part resulting in $390 in labor, the power seat quit working TWICE, and my favorite, the horn decided to start honking on its own whenever it felt like it. My Pontiac Grand Prix rear window motor burned out, no biggie $50. No problems with the Chevy or Hummer. No problems on any of the Fords (Edge, F-150, Explorer, except Ranger (center cap of rear wheel fell off, Ford gave me a new one). Have any of you foreign vehicle enthusiasts ever even owned an American vehicle? You guys probably all own Mac's too.
"Add that to the fact that the foreign car companies can use inferior steel/aluminum/plastics to make the price even lower than what the Big 3 can/will do."
:confuse: You got some kind of, you know, factual stuff to back that up, Sparky?
FWIW, of all the cars I've owned, my '93 Civic was by FAR the best in terms of reliability, even in the face of heavy abuse: A real A+. I give my '76 Buick a C+, my '97 F-150 a B+, my '00 Jetta a D, and my '07 Mazda an A- so far... The '85 Cavalier that lived me for a while 15 years ago gets a triple F and middle finger. :P
As far as weight, everybody has their own beliefs, but the way I look at it, savvy chassis engineering is JUST AS PROTECTIVE as sheer mass. I say Ford took the low road. ...If you've got a nut to crack, you could either use a chisel or a sledgehammer. One of those is easier to carry around, though.
Mazda makes the CX-7, FORD OWNS MAZDA.
If you were the nut, would you rather be hit by the chisel or the sledgehammer? Do you think the sledgehammer even feels anything when he hits the nut?
Well, I'm gonna say for the record that you're right * I misread the article. You did well in figurin' out that the Big 3 have finally achieved parity and in some cases, surpassed America's competitors in terms of quality and reliability. Bravo!
Vince.
Now, let's see, where's that bridge I was meaning to sell. Someone in Brooklyn just left me a voice mail....
If people knew that the Ford really isn't $33,000 they would pick it over the [non-permissible content removed] crap. Our society is so engrained with the belief that foreign = good. We will all be speaking Chinese/Japanese/ within 20 years. Japan West here we come!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Knowledge is power.
Also, nothing is more patriotic than buying the best product out there, so the local brand makes improvements to survive in the global marketplace.
So what? That's why I also mentioned another brand. Face it: Toyota/Lexus, Honda/Acura, Nissan/Infiniti, and a host of other import brands AREN't owned by Yanks - and you can buy them for less than MSRP.
BTW... when Ford owned Aston Martin, do you think you could've gotten a DB9 with a wicked 'Merican discount? :P
And everyone who's disagreed with you had posted in this forum prior to you, so that hardly makes them trolls. But good luck making a point. Keep trying, and you'll get there eventually.
And now I have that stupid song from the Edge commercials stuck in my head. Thanks fer nuthin'!
Only with a $4000 trade-in. That's below dealer COST, much less dealer invoice. Dealers don't give vehicles away - especially the ones that are selling well.
The Santa Fe isn't Japanese. It does look a bit bloated to me. The CRV looks the best. The Edge is right there tho. Too bad Ford can't get over the hump with their interiors.
So does that mean Hyundai will finish as one of the lead automakers in 2009 (since it finished 3rd place behind Porsche and Lexus in 06 IQS)?
Just for the record, I believe both the Fusion/500 and overall Hyundai brand will likely perform well in the upcoming years but right now it's all speculation about the 2009 survey.
If CR-V, RAV4, and Santa Fe are expensive, then so does the Edge. It's a great vehicle and all, but it does have the highest starting MSRP (comparable equipped, I believe Edge still has the highest MSRP).
I have spent an extensive time in all four of these (and more). I would say the Santa Fe is the all around winner, between features, safety, warranty, look, styling, power, comfort, price and other combinations give the SF the lead in the group. My understanding the Santa Fe has been well-received and doing fantastic for Hyundai.
By the way, these vehicles are not small as you stated. I had no problem sitting in the third row of the Santa Fe and RAV4, for example, (unfortunately Edge doesn't have one). Regardless, this is not a forum about country, race, etc but rather about vehicles vehicles, their attributes, features, comparisons, etc.
The outgoing model looked pretty good. I am just not sure about the front of the new model. A little better in real-life but by far no looker.
Also, rankings mean little if the results are so close together as to be statistically insignificant. What I'd really like to see from JD Powers is the numerical value for each car together with it's standard deviation.
Edge is far behind competition in performance, fuel economy, price, fit and finish (check any car mag review in recent months. The only thing that helps is that it is based on Mazda (Japanese) platform. Still average dealer sells 3 (three) copies of it every month. Open your hood and honestly tell us how many parts "Made in the USA" do you see? How about yours TV, Video camera, watch, parts inside your computer? See it is all global now, some Ford models have 30% of parts made in the US, and on the other hand Toyota or Honda may have 60%. I don't care to whose rich pockets profit goes, thousands have jobs here assembling, selling and servicing those cars.
And don't forget to call it crap next time some medical equipment (made in Japan) just saved somebody's life...
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
So the 2009 survey will feature Porsche, Lexus, Hyundai as the top three most reliable nameplate?
Completely off the subject, but, I own 2 Mac's and use a PC at work, the Mac is superior in every way from reliability to being user friendly. The list really goes on and on. :P
Japanese vehicles tend to be more reliable then American makes, especially in the long run. Their vehicles hold up better as a whole over a long period of time. American makes tend to fall apart, and become less "tight" or reliable. My family has owned numerous Fords with little to no problems, but didn't drive as well once they hit over 100,000 miles as the [non-permissible content removed] brands did. They also required more maintenance at the mileage as well. Where as owning a few Honda's, 1 Toyota, 1 Mitsu. They all felt very secure one hitting 100K. I currently own a Mazda with 30K, and drives like the day I bought it.
Good luck on your decision
I really wanted to like the CR-V since for not much more $$$ than I ended up paying for my Santa Fe I could have bought a top-end EX with leather and navigation. I test drove one that was perfectly equipped; on the day of the test drive I was ready to buy. As much as I wanted to like it, I didn't. It was under-powered, the interior felt very spartan, and I didn't like that the rear seats didn't fold flat. It's too bad since Honda seems to build vehicles of high quality but this one simply didn't do it for me.
The other finalist was the Grand Cherokee Limited. What makes them so attractive is the huge discounts (largely affected by rebates) that are available on them. You can buy them at dealer invoice less a $4500 rebate; for that you get a V8 engine, AWD, leather, moon roof, heated seats, upgraded audio system, and tons of other great stuff. In addition, it's available with navigation; in fact, the Jeep nav unit can be dealer-installed in a non-nav vehicle for around $2000. Even though the non-nav Jeep I test drove would have cost me around $5000 more than what I paid for my Santa Fe, I came close to buying it. I really like the V8 (my other car is a 2005 Corvette - what can I say?) as well as the "macho factor" of the Jeep. In the end, though, the Santa Fe won out because it's more spacious (especially in the back seat and cargo areas), has a nicer interior (than a $40,000 Jeep!), and...get ready for this...it's more fun to drive. For me there was no denying it. Add to that the great Hyundai warranty and owner reviews compared to the Jeep's lousy warranty (3/36,000) and lukewarm reviews and the decision becomes even easier.
I could tell similar stores about the Santa Fe's other competitors but you get the idea. While it's not perfect, it's very good. My list of niggles is short:
Navigation is not available. This alone came close to being a deal breaker for me. It's rumored that Hyundai will be offering a factory nav unit on the 2008 model. If true, I'm hoping that I can buy the unit through my dealer's parts department and have it installed in my 2007; if that doesn't happen I may consider an aftermarket in-dash unit although I'm very hesitant to disrupt the stunning appearance of the dash is it currently is.
Xenon headlights are not available. I've had them on my last 3 vehicles as well as on my current Corvette and they're fantastic.
While the blue interior lighting is fantastic (it's very cool!), it's a little annoying that the switches for the moonroof, HomeLink, and outside mirrors aren't backlit. The good news is that everything else is nicely lit, including the front cupholders and the steering wheel buttons for the audio system and cruise control.
I have just the base audio system. While it has XM and can play MP3 discs (both EXCELLENT features), sound quality is just "OK". The only way to get the upgraded Infinity system in the Limited is to get the Ultimate Package (moonroof, rear DVD entertainment system, 605-watt Infinity system, power front passenger seat, 115V power outlet). Since we have no kids and our back seat will rarely be occupied, we opted out of that and went with just the Premium Package (moonroof). I'm going out later today to look at and listen to speaker upgrades; that ought to solve the "problem".
No auxiliary jack to connect MP3 player.
Carpeted floor mats are optional? C'mon, Hyundai - stop being so cheap!
The instruments look kind of goofy IMO. Maybe it's just the font but they look like they could have come out of an old Rambler!
I'd like to see turn signal repeaters on the side mirrors or front fenders.
The rear bumper-mounted lights don't do anything. On Santa Fes produced for other markets they serve as rear fog lamps - why not here?
While the material used on the top of the dash and the tops of the doors looks good, it's hard plastic with no cushion to it. A little cushioning in the material would provide a higher-quality feel.
That's pretty much it. The Santa Fe is so beautifully-designed and well-executed that it's tough to find many flaws. When I first looked at it I couldn't believe all of the features I saw on the Limited that I test drove:
5-speed auto with Tiptronic
HomeLink
Auto-dimming inside mirror with electronic compass
Electronic Stability Control
Traction control
Illuminated cup holders!
XM radio and MP3 disc playback
Driver's seat power lumbar adjustment
Completely flat rear compartment storage, even when rear seats are down
Huge underfloor storage (5-passenger models)
Smooth, quiet, powerful V6 (3.3 liter)
Dual exhaust outlets - looks very cool!
Reclining rear seats!
18" wheels
Heated seats
Dual zone automatic climate control
Front fog lights
Plenty of interior storage (including a useful compartment on top of the dash)
You get the idea. I point these things out because some of them are easily missed during a short test drive. Bottom line: The Santa Fe is great! I highly recommend it. Good luck.
As I've posted in the past, if I had to buy a new SUV today to replace my 98 Grand Cherokee -- which needed $700 worth of rear-end work this week, so that time may be coming sooner than later -- that I'd get the Santa Fe. Now that the Veracruz is on the lots I'd look at that as well. Fortunately for me, just down the street are the Subaru folks where the formerly hideous Tribeca has had a nose job and may also be a candidate.
My hard-chargin', low-rangin' Jeep days may be over but I still need to have a wide lift gate for a pontoon boat frame. The barn door on the Rav4 is a deal-breaker. The Santa Fe lift gate is at least 45 inches wide on a slight diagonal. Something you don't worry about when youre shopping for a car but makes life difficult when you're trying to get that big box home from Best Buy or Costco.
http://www.koreanautoimports.com/store/index.php?cPath=31_27_51
This might work.
The SF is an excellent SUV. Interior is especially nice. May I ask, how much did pay for it?