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Hyundai Santa Fe vs Toyota RAV4 vs Mazda CX-7 vs Ford Edge



  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    Looks like they've mismashed a lot of different groups into one.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Hmm, think about the source, though.

    U.S. News and World Report.

    Would you really go to them for advice about cars?

    Politics, maybe. But cars?

    I'd give them about as much weight as Family Circle Magazine. :D
  • My wife has a 2007 Saturn Outlook XR (same vehicle as the Enclave and Acadia). I have a 2007 Santa Fe Limited. I can assure you that the Acadia/Enclave/Outlook is a LOT larger vehicle than the Santa Fe.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,062
    My wife has a 2007 Saturn Outlook XR (same vehicle as the Enclave and Acadia). I have a 2007 Santa Fe Limited. I can assure you that the Acadia/Enclave/Outlook is a LOT larger vehicle than the Santa Fe.

    Nobody said it wasn't, but that doesn't mean the Outlook is full size, either.
  • So what is "full size"? You suggest above that the Yukon is "full size" while the Outlook/Acadia/Enclave are not. You said:

    No, they're midsize just like the Explorer. The Acadia has a 3 inch shorter wheelbase, 7 inches shorter in height and 1-2 inches shorter in width and overall length.

    I don't know where you got your info, but it doesn't match GM's or's specs. According to the specs available at and, the Acadia has a wheelbase of 118.9 inches vs. the Yukon's wheelbase of 116. The Acadia's external dimensions are barely smaller, but the difference is so slight you'd need three friends and a lot of tools to detect it. The Acadia is 0.8 inches narrower (78.2 vs 79) and 1.3 inches shorter (200.7 vs. 202). While the Yukon is taller, that's because it has more ground clearance (9.1 inches vs. 7.4 for the Acadia) and its body-on-frame constructions pushes the floor even higher. As a result, the Acadia has significantly MORE room inside that the Yukon -- 117 cubic feet for the Acadia vs. 109 for the Yukon. Payload capacity is essentially a wash, too, at 1463 for the Acadia and 1472 for the Yukon.

    By those figures, it seems to me that the Yukon and Acadia are in the same size class. By comparison, my 2007 Hyundai Santa Fe AWD is a pipsqueak. The Santa Fe is 16 inches shorter than the Acadia, 4 inches narrower, five inches lower, and rides on a wheelbase that is 13 inches shorter. Max cargo capacity of 78 cubic feet is just 2/3 of the Acadia's capacity. And trust me, parked next to one another, my wife's Outlook looks huge compared to my Santa Fe.

    If the Santa Fe is midsize, then the Acadia/Outlook/Enclave have to be full size. The only things meaningfully larger are mega-SUV's like the Suburban and Yukon XL.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,062
    I used Their height for the Yukon is wrong and it looks like I transposed the wheelbases.

    If it makes you feel better to call it a full-size then be my guest. But seriously - what difference does it make?
  • "If it makes you feel better to call it a full-size then be my guest. But seriously - what difference does it make? "

    You might ask yourself the same question, as you were the one who started this discussion by insisting that the Acadia/Enclave/Outlook are not "full size" and the Yukon is. I simply pointed out that your statement is incorrect.
  • somedai1somedai1 Posts: 416
    the acadia is quite attractive.... what are the definitions truly in the SUV world anyway? it's crazy how they come up with these names SUV, Cross-Over vehicle - what would be small, mid-size, full size? and those rediculously big SUV's - are they just full size too? why would they compare the santa fe with the rav 4 instead of the highlander? why would commercials pit santa fe against a Landrover LR3? we can continue to be confused about classification but it's all marketing and we'll keep buying.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,062
    I didn't start it - someone else said they were full-sized and I gave reasons why they were still classified as mid-sized. And except for the wheelbase the Yukon is larger than the Acadia including weight and engine size.
  • reemoereemoe Posts: 15
    I know the Rogue isn't in the thread title, but has anyone noticed how identical the exterior styling is of the new Nissan Rogue SUV? They look like twins!
  • somedai1somedai1 Posts: 416
    the rogue looks like the nerdy (not cool) brother of the murano...
  • sduff68sduff68 Posts: 52
    Wow, I really opened a can of worms.

    Hopefully U.S. News and World report will update their website.

    I also subscribe online to Consumer Reports. They still call the Santa Fe a "small" SUV (after the RAV4), even though it is obviously now in the Midsize category.

    However, since "midsize" vehicles like the Highlander are getting so much larger this comparison the Santa Fe can probably be considered a "smaller midsize" SUV.

    Another complaint is that the Santa Fe is Consumer Reports second most highly rated small SUV, however they still don't recommend it. I guess they are waiting for the reliability reports.
  • somedai1somedai1 Posts: 416
    perhaps in trying to reach a wide market - the auto makers are making so many vehicles that are so similar and also so many varying sizes it's hard to catagorize. also remember all the hidden partnerships and alliances in the industry - so you find so many look alikes and shared powerplants....
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    Mazda CX-7 was slapped in the face by CR today, reporting it unreliable. Ouch. Looks like the CEL problem lingered a bit too long for 2007.
  • astegmanastegman Posts: 171
    This just made me laugh out loud, as my CEL was on from last Thursday to yesterday evening. I know why - when I got gas Thursday morning, I didn't tighten the gas cap enough (mine needs at least 6-10 twists). I got gas again on Sunday, secured the gas cap tightly and that did it. I've had my CX-7 for 14 months, and the CEL's come on more times than I can count, for every conceivable reason (and has had every conceivable fix, and 3 different gas caps).

    I know that the CEL is hypersensitive in my particular car and that for the most part, it is completely meaningless. Does that make my car "unreliable"? No, not in my isolated case. The car's been fantastic since Day 1, and I have no regrets. However, I do understand the smackdown by CR; in theory, the CEL can mean something really serious is going on with your car, something that might actually mean danger. It just made me laugh, though, since for me - for my car - the CEL is just an annoyance, something that comes and goes depending on the amount of twists of the gas cap as well as the outside temperature, something to which I assign no importance at all (sounds negligent, I know, but again, this applies only to my car). I take scrupulous care of the vehicle and have full confidence in its performance each time I drive it. Still, it's annoying and is a blemish to the car's reputation. I would hope that later models have no such issues by now.
  • somedai1somedai1 Posts: 416
    are you even sure it's the gas cap? did you diagnose yourself? beware the new car dealer... reset the cel over and over to keep from handling a bigger problem under warranty...
  • somedai1somedai1 Posts: 416
    a little off topic - what made me laugh today - a woman tried to get in my '07 Santa Fe Limited AWD - while i was still in it... with my kids! and it was running! she thought it was her honda crv - (i'm instulted) - but this could be kudos to my Santa Fe - quiet running engine - she didn't even hear it running!
  • sduff68sduff68 Posts: 52
    Since my post the other day Consumer Reports has update their website and they highly recommend the 07 Santa Fe!

    It is so nice to drive a highly rated CR vehicle! Hopefully these ratings will go a long way towards improving Hyundai's resale value.
  • vbbuiltvbbuilt Posts: 498
    Guess we're soul-mates, eh? I've had mine since June 06, 32K miles on it now. I've only had a handful of CELs: gas cap, filler tube, and 1RML valve (or whatever the gizmo is).

    OEM tires, Goodyear, have finally worn out but that's normal wear n' tear for that type of tire. Gonna replace the tires AND the rims in a couple weeks, so I'll post pics in the tire thread.

    Considering the miles, I'm still IN LOVE! I wipe it down daily, dress the tires daily. I CONSTANTLY get compliments. It just gleams in the sun!

    Vince. :shades:
  • sssfegysssfegy Posts: 132
    "replace the tires AND the rims"

    Be careful with the rims, you have tire pressure monitering system, you can by-pass the system but the light will always be on, please let us know if you find any after market that will work with the TPMS.
    Also FYI tirerack has the best price for the Goodyear on the Cx7.
  • I'm pretty sure the TPMS sensors can be moved to other wheels. No need for aftermarket.

    Also, assuming he stays with the same size wheel (I probably wouldn't if it I was going to all that trouble) there are tires with better customer reviews on Tire Rack than the Goodyear. It's been a while since I looked, but it seems like there were some Michelins that people liked. They cost more, but had a much higher treadwear rating than the RS-As.

  • vbbuiltvbbuilt Posts: 498
    Thanks Calitos and ssfegy for your thoughts.

    TPMS compatibility is a "must" for me and there are lots of rims that meet that standard. I'm upgrading to 20" rims/tires, so according to TireRack,com, the 245/45-20 is compatible with the CX-7. I'm looking for all-season tires, so tirerack has 6 recommended tires, so I'll problably go with the Kumho Ecsta ASX. As for the rims, tirerack has a cool feature, that allows you to display the rims on pic of the CX-7. Tire Rack also tells you if the rim is compatible with the TPMS.

    A tire shop here in Leesburg warned me that while OEM TPMS is compatible with a wide range of after-market rims, I'll probably have to get the TPMS sensor reset/recalibrated. The Mazda dealer confirmed that, as well.

    Catch y'all later! Vince.
  • Recalibrated? I would think 32 psi in an 18" rim would be the same as 32 psi in a 20" rim? :D

    The sensors resetting is also supposed to be semi-automatic; there is a procedure in the manual for this for when you rotate the tires, etc. Worked fine for me last time - IIRC, you basically turn the key on and let the car sit for 10 minutes without driving so the radios can resync.

    P.S. We'll want pictures of those installed dubs, Vince!
  • vbbuiltvbbuilt Posts: 498
    Maybe recalibrated is bad terminology. All I know is that Mazda said that once the onboard computer detects a change, the tire indicator light on the dash comes on. In order to extinguish the light, I have to bring the car into the dealer, so they can reset the system (their words).

    I didn' realize that the manual had a procedure, so I'll look into that.

    As for the pics, I'll definately post 'em when I get the new rims/tires.

  • somedai1somedai1 Posts: 416
    i think there is also a problem with the materials used in constructing rims - they are different and in order for the sensors to work properly the rim must be made of certain materials?
  • somedai1somedai1 Posts: 416
    beware the new car dealer... reset the cel over and over to keep from handling a bigger problem under warranty... That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. The dealer gets paid by Mazda to do warranty work. Mazda does not tel their dealers "do not fix problems if they are under warranty" That statement was just really really dumb. My advise: Beware of the uneducated...

    can't find the original post of this - but i'm a little late on the reply but whoa - somebody is really trusting - dealers always lose money when they have to honor warranties as well as the manufacturer so dealers are urged to be very "careful" when it comes to honoring warranties because it does cause a loss... so from dealer to dealer you will see differences- mostly it depends on the particular dealers' overall performance - some will quickly resolve warranty issues to retain customers and build customer satisfaction - others will refuse and deny as long as they can... they make more money on initial sales and non warranty services and for them it is all about making money - make no mistake. anytime they have to perform a warranty repair - they lose money on the retail priced service/repair they could have been working on in that service bay... like any other business - the bottom line is what counts... so hopefully your cel or service engine light problems are trivial... sometimes they are... but sometime you're getting the song and dance from the svc dept. good luck...
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    dealers always lose money when they have to honor warranties as well as the manufacturer so dealers are urged to be very "careful" when it comes to honoring warranties because it does cause a loss

    That is the most retarded thing I have ever heard. Dealer MAKE money on warranty claims, as long as Mazda does not reject the claim after they examine the defective part. I am a Mazda dealer, and I see the financial reports for the service department.

    This is the way it works: John Q Customer come in with an issue with his CX-7. It's a CEL. The tech plugs the car into the computer, and the computer says what the code is. This case, it is a gas cap. The tech then tests the fuel filler area with a series of vacuum tests to ensure that the gas cap is properly sealed. If the test shows a leak in the gas cap, the cap is replaced, if the cap shows no leak, and there are no other signs of a leak, the code is reset. If there is nothing to show that there was a problem, the tech cannot fix anything. This CEL is reported to Mazda, and Mazda pays the Mazda dealer for the work. If the cap needed to be replaced, the dealer sends back the faulty gas cap, as well as the diagnostic test the showed a faulty gas cap, and the dealer then gets paid for the work.

    One would be stupid to think Mazda dealers lose money to do warranty work. Every dealer gets paid by the manufacturer to do work. The only one who loses money is the manufacturer. Dealers are privately owned and operated, and do not operate under direct control of the manufacturer, Mazda North American Operations.

    Service departments DO make more money on regular repairs that are no longer under warranty, because they get retail value, and full labor charges. Dealers would prefer to do that type of work, because it is more profitable, however, you need to keep your new car service customers happy, or else you will not see them in the future. As long as the service department does that, they will continue to be profitable.
  • If anything, the warranty work is also a way for the dealer to make MORE money by cheating Mazda, just the same way body shops cheat insurance companies by claiming reimbursement for work they didn't perform.

    I'm pretty sure my dealer billed Mazda for a new gas cap when in reality all they did was try to file the threads down so it would work. As aviboy said, things like this affect how I will view this particular dealer's honesty if I ever go back their for other work, either under warranty or post-warranty...
  • somedai1somedai1 Posts: 416
    semantics - if you have 10 available bays and all the jobs are identical but they are all warranty jobs - do you make the same money you would if they were the same identical jobs not under warranty? NO! ergo you lose money! that is my point... as well as not all dealer service departments are equally honest - integrity is something that is always in question when dealing with auto service depts dealers or other... don't be so sensitive just because you are a dealer but you made my point for me... you make less on a warranty job when the manufacturer pays you... if you make less on the job - i beleive it is akin to losing money... something nobody likes to do - anyway your wisdom is refreshing... thanks!
  • somedai1somedai1 Posts: 416
    also - if the tech is wrong - parts can be replaced all day under warranty - doesn't mean that the problem is fixed...
  • Not semantics. Perhaps you missed his point: though the profit margin may be higher on non-warranty repairs, there is little benefit to the dealer in agitating a new owner who may come back for all that retail-priced service later on, after the warranty is up. The incentive to make that new owner think a service department is incapable or uncaring is non-existent, and any increased profits on retail work likely aren't worth the risk. And making less profit is NOT akin to losing money. Correct me if I'm wrong, aviboy - but having wheels in bays counts. Having empty bays isn't good for anything.

    Yes, sucky service departments exist (I know - I've got one that I don't go to anymore) but as a rule, there is no motivation for most dealers to tick off their future livelihood.
  • oh, you mean like the infamous engine flush at 15,-20k miles.... :P

    Maybe they mean not to forget to flush the commode :P !

    Personally I like the extended warranties myself !!!!! as well as replacement with rebuilt parts myself:shades:

    Auto repair...gotta be the highest percent markup in the whole place (besides the counters that sell the hats, jackets and jewelry.....)
  • mpuzachmpuzach Posts: 635
    The flaw in your arguement is assuming that even without warranty work, the service department would be filled to capacity. I highly doubt that it would. I don't know the actual stats of warranty vs. non-warranty work but I'd bet a large sum that without warranty work the service department would be way under-utilized. At that point it becomes more profitable for them to do warranty work than to have empty service bays. Some revenue is better than no revenue.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    if you have 10 available bays and all the jobs are identical but they are all warranty jobs - do you make the same money you would if they were the same identical jobs not under warranty? NO! ergo you lose money! that is my point

    I kinda figured that was your point, but I must have missed it. Yes, that is 100% correct. This is where scheduling comes into play. If you can properly schedule appointments, so every customer get's in, in a reasonable time frame, the customers are happy, and the service department is happy. It's not easy to do, though. I am glad I am not in the service end of the business.
  • somedai1somedai1 Posts: 416
    not really a flaw - but there are two sides to it... if your dealership service dept lacks business then you hope for any business to come into the shop - but it is a catch 22 - if you get a lot of warranty work - it speaks to the lack of quality in the vehicles - which may in turn lose you customers anyway... a lot of people don't want to service their cars at the dealer because of their high labor prices - but if your car is under warranty - it is in your best interest to get the car worked on at the dealer - i would think that a higher percentage of cars in the svc dept at a dealer are new and leased cars - so it is possible that those are the cars that support the svc dept for dealers... but if they could make people feel confident in their service and maybe lower their labor prices - they would make more money in their svc depts on retail work when non warranty customers return - - - but ahhh - scheduling to satisfy everyone is always a pain in the bumper...

    another point i wanted to make was - it takes longer to get paid through the manufacturer when the warranty work is approved than when a retail customer pays at the point of sale/service (i think - aviboy will correct me if i'm wrong!) then you might not see that money hit soon enough to effect the bottom line for that week or month...
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    Correct me if I'm wrong, aviboy - but having wheels in bays counts. Having empty bays isn't good for anything.

    I wish our store would have full bays at all hours of business, but, that does not always happen. You know what my tech's complain about? Not enough big jobs. They don't really make any money doing oil changes, tire rotations, 30K services etc. They make the big money doing tranny jobs, big warranty work like replacing engines Mazda's, for the most part, do not break that much. When they do, it's little things like a gas cap.

    I would take full bays everyday, no matter what the job is. Of course, we want the big jobs, but, they are few and far between compared to routine maintenance and small warranty claims.
  • mcq1mcq1 Posts: 103
    Can I get some input about how the Ford Edge compares to the Hyundai Santa Fe?
    I am trying to decide between the two. I need some help here you guys.
  • markanmarkan Posts: 48
    My wife and I drove them both and bought an Edge. We thought handling and performance were very close. The Edge rode better and was much more comfortable plus we liked the look and style much better.
  • mcq1mcq1 Posts: 103
    I thought so. We looked at an edge today then test drive it just looked. The minute I got inside of it I thought wow this is plush this is my next car. So I will be buying one in the next couple of months. Thanks for your post.
    Which model did you buy?
  • hardhawkhardhawk Posts: 702
    We bought the Edge over the Santa Fe for the extra room it has. The rear seat leg room is incredible in the Edge and it overall feels very spacious. Our Edge Limited will be built next week and to us in early December. We can't wait.
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    I have driven both the Edge and Santa Fe extensively and both were winners. Between the two, I would have to give the edge (no pun intended) to the Santa Fe. I do feel the Santa Fe has a better overall package, in terms of comfort, quietness, build quality, pricing, warranty, to name a few.

    Actually, I believe SF's second row is pushed forward to accomdate the available (and adequate) third row. Still, the second row did not feel crowded in the SF; actually, volume behind 1st row with rear seats folded down the Santa Fe has a signifcant edge (again, no pun intended): 78.2 cu. in. for SF vs. 69 for the Edge. Also, the Santa Fe gains significant room over the Edge in the front row, which is one of the reasons the Santa Fe felt that much more comfortable for me in my month long tests between the two.
  • mcq1mcq1 Posts: 103
    We want the limited with nothing else added to it but we haven't seen any in the lots so I guess we have to order one but I am sort of waiting until end of december first of january to get some extra savings. I love love the vapor silver metalic with the charcoal interior.
    I agree the rear seat leg room is pretty nice and overall just a nice solid comfortable vehicle. I give Ford thumbs up for the EDGE!!!
  • mcq1mcq1 Posts: 103
    We just got out Edge limited with Sync. I love it. It handles like a champion. It felt good to buy American. Hurray for FORD...
  • If by "American" you mean the Western Hemisphere, you are correct, but the Edge is built in Canada. Santa Fe is built in the US.
  • somedai1somedai1 Posts: 416
    and both probably have a multitude of japanese parts....
  • mcq1mcq1 Posts: 103
    Oh well I was referring to the company FORD...not a korean company. Of course they have many foreign parts.
    I still rather have the EDGE than the SANTA choice. Thanks.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Japanese? Did you mean Korean, perhaps?

    I'm sure both use parts from all over the world, though odds are most parts are sourced from the US and Canada.
  • mcq1mcq1 Posts: 103
    I really love my new Edge. I am glad that I bought it instead of the Santa Fe.
  • somedai1somedai1 Posts: 416
    the edge does look good - how is it for space and 3rd row and cargo space comparing to santa fe?

    certain colors make it look like garbage tho' - but i guess that's every car...
  • somedai1somedai1 Posts: 416
    what's really be cool is if they gear it toward the performance minded and give it the mustang engine!
This discussion has been closed.