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Classic? Collectible? Special Interest? Just Old?
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Comments
I think some commie cars did make it over here but not officially. Whatever German or Czech companies fell behind the "Iron Curtain" after WW II continued to make the same kind of German car under Soviet rule.
Skoda, for instance, or EMW. I"m not sure where the Wartburg and Gogomobile came from, but I think West Germany....not sure?.Fellow commie car experts?
I believe the Trabant had a two stroke motor. I think one of the car mags did a test of one right after the wall fell.
Yes, Lada did go to Canada and I guess their 4X4s have won some respect up there.
Also, Ural still sends motorcycles over here. I've inspected them and driven them and they may look like BMWs from 25 feet away, but believe me, it stops there.
http://www.parade.com/special/car_winners/car_winners.lasso
In case the link dies, it's an essay contest from Parade magazine asking people to describe their favorite car. The second essay states: "They now call the Pacer a classic. I knew that 20 years ago." What I want to know is WHO is calling the Pacer a classic, what are they smoking, and where can I get some?
-Jason
However, they are dorky enough to be amusing and I think some people will preserve them--that is, preserve the survivors, not restore them. You'd be out of your mind to restore a Pacer.
The kind term for cars like this is "special interest", which of course means nothing.
It doesn't matter if it's an Austin Marina, a Nash
Ambassador, a Trabant or a VW Squareback someone will save it and generally that's a good thing.
I draw the line at Yugos and Subaru 360s (thanks for nothing Mal Bricklin).
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
Well, anyway, he's owned so many interesting old cars over the years, when I saw him a year or so ago, after not having talked to him for a few years, I was curious to see what he has now. Shifty, get this-he is and has been for several years now-ALL ALFA-he has 4 Alfa Romeos, of various year and model, most of them older, I believe. And nothing else. How's that for a former Pacer buyer?
Shifty, was there ever a Pacer in your garage?
By the way, as I remember, he sold the Pacer after only a year or so, because of the disappointing, poor gas mileage and lack of power.
However, he obviously came around to a complete understanding of automotive styling
No, I never had a Pacer. I did have a Checker once, which is just as bad, so I'm not above wallowing in my mistakes now and then.
I've never driven one, but I sat in a few. I think they're actually pretty comfortable, at least up front. The wagon model isn't bad in the back seat. One day I was at a junkyard that had just gotten one in. It must've been a nicer model, because it had thickly padded cloth seats, overly-stuffed vinyl door panels, and shag carpeting. I sat behind the wheel, just to get a feel for it.
I think the earlier models are kinda neat looking, but they ruined it when they tried to give it more of a stand-up formal grille.
I had a chance to get a free AMC Hornet wagon a few years ago, that some friends of mine just wanted to be rid of. I wonder what would've been worse...that thing or a Pacer? That Hornet was another car that was kinda cool in a nerdy sort of way. It was a real bright robin's egg blue, and really stood out.
Next you're going to tell me 1960 Corvair sedans aren't cool.
I would've loved to have had the thing, but I was only 23 when they were trying to get rid of it. Back then, it would've cost me another $500-600 a year to insure. I remember though that they couldn't find anybody to take it off their hands, even for free. They even called around to a few junkyards, and so did I, to help them out. Every place said they didn't have need for a car like that.
Finally, we drove it down to a junkyard south of Culpeper, VA, about 90 miles away, and ended up getting $90.00 for it!
If nothing else, I guess it would've been a nice little car for hauling stuff, but then again, it didn't have a full liftgate...only the rear window opened up. Kind of a hatchback wagon, I guess?
Actually a good little car. I think it was a '70, had three on the tree and the 199 six, manual steering and brakes, basically an improved version of the '61 Falcon I inherited from Dad (now you know his taste in cars). Kind of fun in a penalty box kind of way. A passenger told me I drove it "like a sports car" which I think is passenger code for "too fast".
To sell it I had it repainted medium metallic blue, hosed it out and Armor-Alled the rubber floor mats. It looked pretty sharp. Should have done that when I bought the car and not waited.
I know the 6 was a 4.0 liter, which I think comes out to a 244. I remember when it first came out, it was a big deal because it had 190 hp. Wasn't that around 1988 or so? Was the 4.0 the same basic design as those other 6es like the 199, 232, and 258?
Back to Pacers for a minute. A friend's mother had one when I met her (in eighth grade, 1982). It was a 'wagon' with a six and a three speed on the floor, pretty basic model. It was brown and ugly, but I do remember it being particularly roomy, mostly because it was so wide.
An aunt had a Hornet sedan, I think a '75 or '76, baby blue with matching plaid interior, six and automatic. Not a bad car. She previously owned several Ramblers, so she was particularly loyal to the brand. Next car after that was an '82 Cavalier, two door with power windows. Not nearly as reliable as the Hornet.
Interesting footnote about the Pacer-it was designed to take the little V6 that AMC had bought from GM, but then sold back to GM just before the Pacer came out. Dumb move. That big inline six didn't fit as well in the Pacer. I don't think it would have made a whole lot of difference, though-V6 or not.
History says GM was smart to buy it back though, eh? Heck, what would they be putting in all their cars now?
I kinda like the Matador too, in a strange sort of way. The old hardtop that they had up through '73 (or was it '74?) was pretty sharp looking, but that weird frog-eyed thing that finished off the nameplate was something else! So hideous you just had to love it! Plus, it still had roll-down rear windows, which were really becoming scarce in 2-door cars by then.
Those "coffin-nosed" Matador sedans looked like a big Dart up front, just with more of a "nose". One thing I'll say for 'em though, it seemed like the Matador had a nicer interior back then than competing Ford, Chevy, or Mopar cars. I remember looking in a few at an AMC show that Grbeck and I went to back in June, and it looked pretty upscale for the time.
The story I heard from an old witch in a cave was that when they were designing the Pacer that some guy knocked the real clay model off the table and before they could pick it up and straighten it out an AMC exec came into the room, pointed to the floor and said "That's It! Build It!"
"Do you know WHY the Wankel and front wheel drive were dropped? They were to be purchased from GM. GM was having trouble getting their version of the Wankel to pass emission standards and asked Congress to give them a few years relief. Congress said no, so GM said it would just write the whole billion dollar (or was it two?) deal off on taxes! So they abruptly dropped the thing, leaving AMC with a new car but no new engine. What did they do? They made the 258 six fit. To do this, Dick Teague had to widen the body by six inches. This six inches is the drive shaft tunnel (vacant on front wheel drive cars, naturally). So no, the Pacer wasn't intended to be 'the first wide small car'... that came along by necessity and was capitalized on!!"
The whole text is at this URL: http://www.amcpacer.com/about/statsfacts.html
I wonder if the Pacer was based on an extremely shortened Matador platform? From the ones I've sat in, the Pacer feels almost midsized inside, at least up front, although the rear is extremely compromised due to the reduced length.
I'm thinking kind of along the lines of the Gremlin, which was a shortened Hornet. As a result, the Gremlin seemed bigger up front than a Vega or Pinto, which I guess it should, considering the Hornet was a compact, but then the back seat of the Gremlin rated right up there with the worst of them!
I do remember Pacers had H-U-G-E transmission humps, no doubt because of the shoehorning they had to do to get the engines in there.
When the car actually hit the market it had some buzz left for about 30 minutes. The the buzz turned into a polite chorus of "Oh dear".
My uncle bought one, and I was surprised by how small the interior space seemed compared to the outside of the car. It may have been short but it sure was wide.
Here's a website that 'confirms' the GM wankel story and then says that AMC even licensed the wankel direct from NSU after GM fell through... but in the end as you know it was the big-6 for the Pacer, all the way until deep-6 time for AMC.
http://www.mederle.de/amc/pacgeng.html
Perhaps it was one of those golf course deals, you know "Hey, if you ever get that rotary to stop puking oil and eating gas at the rate of a Panzer tank, give us a call!"
The only part of the story that sounds true is that of GM asking for government relief or suing somebody. At this same time, the Japanese just shut up and passed all emissions tests and made the rotary work.
To me, that is the real story behind many of GM's debacles of the late 70s and 80s. They had to be dragged kicking and screaming into the Modern Car Age.
I can't think of another interesting Japanese sedan from that period. Well, the 510. Name another.
Datsun 510
Maxda RX2/RX3
Datsun 240Z
Nissan Patrol 4X4
Toyota FJ40 Land Cruiser
Some might say the Datsun 1600 Fairlady and 2000 Roadster as well but I'm not sure either one was very interesting to drive or look at. A coin toss on those two.
All you had to do was let off the gas under the right circumstances.
Sometimes they would emit a HUGE LOUD backfire after being parked for a few minutes. I remember something about raw gas slowling dripping into what looked like a small blast furnace they had.
After a few minutes...KABOOM! This was really bad if you had come home from work, parked the car in your garage and were sipping a cold one.
I was once in a shop when an RX3 that was up in the air having it's oil changed suddenly backfired! We ran for cover...thought a bomb had gone off!
Anyway, this is why I put the alternative of "Just Old" in the title of this discussion. I think some old cars are just "old cars" and we should refer to them that way rather than say "collectible" just because Ralph has 20 of them in his backyard. True, he's "collected" them, but they collect tin cans and cardboard for recycling, too. So if we call a 62 Rambler an "old car", then that allows the word "collectible" and "classic" to have meaning for more interesting cars.
Also, that doesn't mean that restoring "an old car" is a smart thing to do either. Gee, if a person had the money and talent, I could think of better cars to apply it to myself.
Try not to duplicate your posts next time and THANKS!
Shifty the Host
http://www.ricdidonato.com/Downtime/index.html
Good luck.