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Honda Fit Hybrid
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Seriously, he was focused on new innovations over the next few years. It wasn't a talk about existing product lines. The way the whole thing is put together gives me a double-grande dose of doubt regarding a Fit hybrid.
Originally, when the rumors first appeared, Fukui all but denied them. Those rumors were based on leaks suggesting a low(er) cost hybrid which was smaller than the Civic. Given Honda's strategy for using existing models to build their hybrids, the Fit was a logical assumption. And, if this dedicated hybrid uses the Fit chassis, it makes the assumption all the more acceptable.
What Fukui just announced explains how the rumors may have formed as well as why Fukui denied them.
I am so glad to hear that coming from a previous Insight owner. When I hinted that the physics of the IMA were not sound - any gains may have been due purely to the smaller engines that Honda fitted to that particular Civic and the Insight - over on the HCH board I am sure some members there wanted to skin me alive !
I think I wrote, half seriously, that the IMA is what you get when a group of mechanical engineers try their hand at electrical engineering.
In reality, and I speak from personal experience, it is very hard to break a corporate culture heavily based on successes had with another discipline, in this case internal combustion engine design. Successful hybrids are going to need an engine with a significantly different profile.
If the Insight had been a series hybrid using an induction motor pinioned 10:1 to the differential as per EV1 I am sure that there would have been an entirely different outcome. Without the EV1's 840lbs of battery the Insight would have had no problem with those 8 second to 60mph speed ramps.
But I digress, I also suspect that Honda made the common mistake of resting its future on just the one design team.
Someone pointed out that if you drive at 60 for more than 45 minutes then reclamation of energy when braking to a standstill is negated by the losses incurred by hauling the 100lb HV battery around in th first place ! (the penalty estimated in the increase in rolling resistance comes out as 200 watts @ 60mph).
There is only one justification for regeneration through the recapture of potential and kinetic energy and that is for a pure battery electric vehicle where you are having to lug a gradually depleting battery around with you 24/7 anyway. Then the recapture makes perfect sense to use this already existing structure to absorb that energy. BUT to deliberately install, pay for and accomodate a battery just for this one task is totally ludicrous. I am waiting for the penny to drop on this one for Honda. To be fair the Toyota Prius is also suspect on this count now I think about it.
I am interested in the Fit because my Echo's lease is due to expire soon and that's why I follow this board, not to discuss hybrid theory. The Advanced Hybrid Eng is where I normally hang out.
T2
I don't know why members of the HCH board would want to skin you alive for saying that. I thought that was pretty common knowledge. Isn't the primary reason for the electric motor (and battery) to provide a boost to the small gas engine for acceleration, and secondarily to allow the gas engine to shut off at stops, and (for HSD) to allow the car to run at low speeds for short distances on electric power alone? I would think in urban stop-n-go driving there would be some gas savings from the autostop and electric-only driving, since regenerative braking would happen more frequently in that scenario.
"The report also says that Honda executives have denied that the subcompact Fit will be available as a hybrid".
http://www.canadiandriver.com/news/060519-6.htm
No problem with me, as long as Honda fits the Fit with a small super efficient turbo diesel that gets 65+mpg. Yes honda, after almost 5 years in this thread I am still waiting for the Fit that fits my efficiency preference. Hey, I'll take a 3+3 FRV diesel too - if it gets 40+mpg.
marcb
- ex Prius Owner.
- getting 45mpg mixed driving on a 12 year old Jetta diesel.
I think you're going to be waiting a very long time for that Fit Diesel, though. HCCI engines could be available by then.
The newest IMA do have double the output, by coincidence. However, I don't know if it is used anywhere except the 2006 HCH.
The IMA advantage is that Honda could place it in any vehicle at a moment's notice, unlike the HSD, which requires more engineering. The only thing Honda has to do is find a place for the batteries and reprogram the ECU. The drive train is plug and play with the standard Honda transmission components. It is not as efficient a hybrid, but is easier to implement.
The second advantage it has over HSD is that the IMA will run without a traction battery; the HSD cannot.
Then they could ship a few to North America?
60+ mpg on the highway would not be out of the question.
By the way, the FR-V diesel consumes 5.3L/100km in extra urban (highway) driving so that will fit your requirement of 40+mpg. Actually, combined fuel consumption is 6.3L/100km (~37 mpg), which is quite good for a 1600kg MPV!
Re-read my original post if you have any questions.
Sales of the Jazz in Europe are OK (and they are rising every year), but still nothing spectacular. All (or at least almost all) of the competition offers a diesel option, and Honda will need to do the same to raise the bar with the next generation Jazz.
A larger V6 diesel was.
The V6 diesel is most certainly going into the Ridgeline here. However, it may also be used in the Legend and MDX overseas.
...not to mention combined fuel consumption of 5.3L/100km (44 mpg)!
I would take a diesel over a hybrid of any Honda model. Diesel engines inherently have lower CO2 emissions than gasoline engines, and smoke/particles is no longer an issue on filter-equipped cars with low-sulphur fuel. Add in higher fuel economy, a significant increase in torque, and Honda's recent news that they will have decreased NOx levels to that of gasoline...sounds like Honda has a winner.
The horsepower on the Civic diesel is 140@4000 while it has about 250 lb-ft of torque at 2000 rpm.
I may be.
This strategy makes no sense to me, but I just found this link today.
Could be a misquote, or it could be that Fukui said something in his homeland, which he didn't say to the US press.
How long did you have your Insight? Was it a 5-speed? Did you like it? Why did you get rid of it?
Thanks,
MidCow
P.S.- Very, very seriously considered ordering an Insight, but my wife said it wouldn't have enough power for me so we got an S2000 instead LOL, go figure!
You said "ex Prius owner"
Why did you get rid of it? How did you like it? Any problems?
Any VW relaiblity issues? I liked their TDI, just not sure bout relaiblity after my Audi reliability experience.
Cheers,
MidCow
Also HSD can only go in reverse in full-electric LOL.
Cheers,
MidCow
Anyway, Fit Hybrid supposidly in 08.
http://corporate.honda.com/press/article.aspx?id=2006051735893
Straight from the CEO, over 2 months ago - scroll down to product strategy
The last I had heard though, it appeared that Honda Corporate was going with a separate vehicle entirely for the next hybrid platform. So, the whole concept of a Fit hybrid may be moot.
At this point, Fit looks like the right Fit for me even if it is just old fashioned technology.
Also honda has trademarked the name Latitiude. Latitude is the name of a new Accord based crossover. Some say it's the stream. I think it's the JDM Odyssey that might come here. That would make for an interesting crossover. Could have the 190 HP K24 and a 268 HP J35. Might compete with the ody but should give the Ford flex a run for it's money.
Some more information on Honda's new hybrid plans.
"We can confirm that the CR-Z will go on sale in the U.S. in 2010," but added, "We are not ready to announce any plans for the sale of the Fit Hybrid in regions outside of Japan."