Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
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Classic? Collectible? Special Interest? Just Old?
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is helpful, if a bit too optmistic (they call it the "wish book", as in "I WISH I could get that price"...but it's a great starting point.
On the web, you might check out this site:
http://www.vmrintl.com/
I think if you consult all of those you'll have a fairly good idea of what the value is....and remember, originality means a lot, so deduct accordingly for modifications.
goperrons--the value of the /77 Continental is not so high due to it's being a 4-door, but I'd say $3,500-4,500 would be about all the money right now in the market.
louise_lorden@yahoo.com
What is the body material? Fiberglas? And what type of engine powers it?
Anyway, thanks sbarer, for un-misleading me...I'd say you're a bit hard on the car, more like $8,000 for a very very nice car...but, yes, I have seen them sell for $5K when the seller doesn't want to wait....the market is a niche, so you need to find just the right buyer for this type of car.
CLASSICS---the only true "Classics" are *certain* cars built from 1925 to 1948 exclusively, as determined by over 30 years of research by the Classic Car Club of America. The list is extensive, but does not all models of a certain make. Some makes have all their models as classics, like Voisin, Duesenberg, Horch, Cord...and others have most of their models, like Bugatti (all but the Type 52) or Packard (all but the cheaper cars). Ford has nothing on the list, nor does Pontiac, Chevrolet, and other common makes...however Chrysler has some of the early Imperials from the 20s and 30s.
ANTIQUE---any car built before 1930
VINTAGE--any car built before 1925
BRASS ERA---shiftright is not quite sure, but he thinks this refers to pre 1915 Vintage cars.
COLLECTIBLE--a virtually meaningless term, but it could be reasonably linked to the term MILESTONE CARS (i.e., all Milestones are Collectibles).
MILESTONE CARS--a list of 1945-1972 distinctive postwar (World War II) automobiles, both foreign and domestic, which are chracteristic and significant to that era. This list is determined by auto experts belonging to the Milestone Car Society, and include a wide variety of cars in a wide variety of body styles...it's not nearly as "snooty" as the Classic Car list.
SPECIAL INTEREST CARS--a polite way of saying that if one person wants one, it's a "special interest" car. It's like saying "you're special" to the kid in kindergarten who comes from Roumania and is shorter than everyone else.
I think some attempt at definitions is good...while it's a free country and all, I really do wince when someone calls a 96 Impala a "classic". Try me again in 50 years.
The term "classic" dates from Roman times, and is a reference to the earlier Greek "Classical" period. It was used to describe works of art and architecture that, in the opinion of the viewer, possessed certain attributes that the Greeks displayed in what they, the Roman patrician class, considered the old regime's finest work.
In the eye of the beholder, a '96 Impala might indeed possess or suggest such qualities. Not to me, mind you, though on a strictly visual level, I'd saythat the design is successful. It's unified.
Maybe cars themselves are inherently anticlassical. I think they're more Mycenean myself. Maybe Cycladic.
Cars like all Porsches (sans 912, 924 and 928...I'll allow the 914/6,)Acura's NSX, Audi Quattro, Corvettes from 84-C5, Cadillac STS (for Northstar alone,) Lancia Stratos, all Ferraris with the exception of the Mondial and 308GT4, all BMW's except 318/320's, Honda Prelude 4ws, RX7s, Mazda Miata, 280/300Z's, Lexus SC400, Range Rover,and just to get Shift's attention: the Viper!
The dictionary defines "landmark" as "a thing or event of historical or aesthetic interest". So right there some of the BMWs and RX-7s have to go (a BMW 528e is a landmark? NAH!)...the Miata a definite yes, nix on the Nissan 280 or 300, I'd say yes on the Lexus 400 (Scared the bejeezus out of Mercedes and BMW), Range Rover, yes, defined the luxury SUV market, Lancia Stratos, yes, one hell of a rallye car / Cadillac, I'm afraid not, unless one deemed a modern Cadillac that didn't fall apart historical, so in that sense, yes!--Ferrari, well yes and no, they made a few turkeys, but you weeded out most of them, so sure--NSX, Quattro, both definitely, Corvette, I'd say the C5 for sure, 914/6 is an interesting car but not ground-breaking in any way...sort of a VW-GTO maybe? Not sure about that one. Viper, maybe, as the last gasp of American brute power in the 20th century--only time will tell on that car.
The site's URL is:
http://www.cars-on-line.com/musclecarsmenu.html
Yeah, that is an interesting site, although I think it's kind of funny that 90% of the cars they list aren't muscle cars at all....they should know better!
As for pricing, that's tricky when the car is a show car or trophy car or celebrity car--those factors throw regular pricing off. The real "market" is determined in the #2 automobile...the very clean, nicely restored car that one can actually drive....these trophy cars are inevitably over-restored (in the sense that they are put together much better than the factory ever did), are never or rarely driven, and thus are given the name "trailer queens". Anyway, trophy car prices can go way, way, up because of the tremendous investment and because some big-buck collectors only want pristine, unused, perfectly and accurately restored cars...and they'll pay for it. You got your trophy animals, your trophy wife, your trophy house and your trophy cars.
But hey, free country....me, myself and I like cars you can drive, race, whatever...you crack them up, just fix 'em again.
One of my favorite cars is a Bugatti Grand Prix car that races at Laguna now and then...it's worth god knows how much and it's painted with a brush, just like they did the original race cars. And it's beautiful because it's real.
Oh, there's no shortage of these cars, really, so another will come along if you ever get serious about owning one. It's just a question of tracking them down and eliminating the ratty ones. There is, unfortunately, a lot of "puffery" if not downright false advertising that goes along with these cars, so caution is in order...there are counterfeits (you can buy any decal or metal ID plate you want) and shoddy workmanship (bondo sleds--we call 'em "magnet-proofed cars"), to say nothing of cars that are just completely incorrect. So you could never buy one of these off the internet without looking at it or having it professionally inspected prior to sale.
I am new to the discussion group. I would like to know if a 1975 BMW 530 Sedan would be of interest to collectors, old car lovers, etc. HOw much would a car like that be worth? What are the amenities that make it worth more?
Thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience,
Vida
In answer to your question, it's been my observation that so far, at least, a 70s BMW 530 has not been of any interest at all to collectors, as evidenced by their low current value of around $2,500 in good condition. While they can be a very nice used car to drive around, I think they will always be "only" that...a nice used car. Probably their rather conservative looks, cost of upkeep and 4-door sedan configuration all work against the car becoming a vehicle worth restoring. So far at least, only the BMW 2002Tii (fuel-injected version of the 2002) and the 3.0CS coupes have shown any "legs" as collector cars, being attractive 2 doors with decent performance capabilities. But even these two cars are not bringing really strong prices, so that doesn't bode well for the sedans at all.
Best thing to do with a 530 of that era is find a nice one and enjoy driving it as long as you can.
Of course I am not very excited about the news but I very much appreciate your answer. So much for my 1975 BMW!
There are 2 old Audi 5000S Quattros (Mike Wallace Specials) that park in my lot at work. Some clean examples of those could be had for $1500 to $2000. I'm sure that they have their mechanical weaknesses, but for somebody in the market for a nice Euro-sedan on a tight budget it seems like a steal. It may yet happen that the public will catch on to that particular model, with its '60 Minutes' history and all, and it appreciates a bit. Not that I would expect that car to ever appreciate a lot.
There are so many fine machines that failed to get marketed properly, or that are currently under-appreciated for just silly reasons. They may be long shots if you're interested in financial gain, but some of them are as much fun as the ones that *are* currently recognized as OK to collect.
It's like those damned oldies stations on the radio. Not one of em knows or cares about which songs most influenced the multitudes of musicians who followed, or which songs represent a high point of musical or artistic development. All they know is "The Biggiest Hits!!!", and they play the same damned 20 or 30 hits over and over.
Or the example from the art world that's always used is that Vincent van Gogh didn't manage to sell a single painting in his lifetime. A few years after his death they begin to command small sums. Now their prices have risen to the tens of millions. They're still the same beautiful images that made some 1890 French dude say "I don't care if people say it's overpriced at 20 francs. I like it." Was he wrong?
The 5000s is a textbook example of a brilliant design poorly executed and everybody noticed (another contemporary example--Dodge Neon)...a Van Gogh is brilliantly conceived and brilliantly executed and nobody noticed...big difference!
If you want an old car, popular or no, to play with, let's talk about it and maybe I can save you a lot of trouble?
It's all academic with me anyway. I can't afford a mid-70's, mid-level Schwinn. (Actually, I have just such an example in storage. Low miles. No major rust. Needs tires. Original paint!)
My next vintage machine will probably be a 10 to 20-yr old Chev/GMC van (350, 4-bolt main). After that, a motorcycle.
Alledgedly clean, early-80's Yamaha RZ350's are going for $2K. In touring bikes, Suzuki GS 850G's are in the same price range; maybe a little less.
If a sportscar is in the stars for me at all, you've already helped me to confirm my interest in a Miata, MGB, Midget, 124, Giulietta or Duetto. Did I leave anybody out? If the budget permits, it'll be a 911; anything but a 2.7.
But there still is a certain attraction to under-appreciated vehicles. The aforementioned motorcycles are extremely un-hot right now, though they were leaders in their day.
The cheapest decent old Triumphs are 3 to 4K, Nortons 5 to 8, and BMW's 6 to 10.
I dunno. Maybe I should just sell my '95 Civic EX for $10K and get an R69S.
Brits and Italians are notorious rusters. My advice is to find a nice Lotus Elan (Fiberglass.) You won't have to worry about body rust, but you'll need to frequently hose-off the chassis.
Another idea would be to consider a more modern convertible that is basically a "throw-away", since the chances of them becoming collectible aren't very good...like 80s Alfa Spyders, Miatas, VW Cabriolets (Rabbits)....all available around $4,000-6,000, all fun, all reliable, and all more rust resistant.
JJpowell@win.bright.net
Well, that is kind of interesting actually, but if you're thinking that makes it worth any more, I personally don't think so, since it is so minor an aberration, is easily counterfeited, (how on earth could you ever prove you didn't do it yourself?) and anyway, it is not on an important car historically speaking.
The interesting thing about factory "oddities" is that without documentation and without being of a significant nature, no one is willing to pay extra for them.
So if I were you I'd rest easy and sell it if you wish.
Host
I just don't see it myself, but hey, if you can the concept to someone, go for it! I don't wish to rain on your parade.
Host
My boss had a 1988 Plymouth Sundance...he took off one tail-light, cut the grille in half, exchanged a couple of wheel covers and emblems, and voila! He had one-half Dodge Shadow, one-half Plymouth Sundance. He even painted the car halves two different maroons...one was like black cherry the other was like a regular maroon. He did not do anything inside but it would've been interesting to make one half tan or something and the other half the original gray. A cut here, a cut there, swap out this door panel, cut the headliner, change the seat out, and there you go! Of course we silly people do things like that to our $500 cars.
There are a lot of variables to figuring out the value of a '63 Porsche, but if you're willing to answer the questions, I can help you.
1. coupe or convertible
2. which engine 1600C or SC
3. B or C model
4. sunroof if applicable
5. Is the color correct and authentic for the year of the car?
6. Is the interior (seating, carpeting) all correct materials (leather, german weave carpeting).
7. Is the engine # correct? (Is the right engine in the car?)
You'll need to know all or most of these things, because if, say, the color and engine are wrong, that alone is a huge deduction in value. Also, Cs are worth more than Bs, and of course convertibles more than coupes, and originality of interior also very important.
Last of all, you need to know the condition of the body pan underneath, since these cars have no frame, so if the bodypan is rusted or damaged, the car may in fact be nearly worthless.
So let us know as much as you can...
Host
Nick
I could best describe it as "a triumph of craftsmanship over engineering". It is an overly complicated gas eater with some serious engineering flaws. In the recent Sports Car Market Magazine, a most respected journal of classic car values, the Silver Shadow rates *one star*, which, when you look at the Ratings Table, says this, and I quote:
"one star---Woof, woof! A dog that nobody cares about and most likely never will".
I would strongly discourage your friend's family from considering it. If they want an old English car of similar style, buy a late 40s, early 50s Bentley Mark VI steel saloon...also not cheap to fix, but cheaper to buy (half the price), much better looking, and easier to deal with...and a far more sturdy automobile.
The Rolls has been riding on a reputation that had merit in the 1930s, but not in the 1960s by a long shot. The new Rolls, with BMW power under the hood and German electronics, may prove to be a great car again someday.
Nick
But hey, if your friends have money to burn and want a toy and are going in with their eyes open, fine, then there's no crushing disappointment. But really there are far more fun and interesting and lovely cars to burn your money on.
Have 'em e-mail me before it's too late.
70 with a (shame) dropped in Falcon motor, vinyl top, yellow/black, auto - 3spd w.od. $1695
67 Convert. 6 cyl. auto - $2900.
Which would be better deal?
Thanks for your effort.
Robin
if the car is decent, that's a good price for it.
Asking price - $2800 or BO
Is this a good deal????