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Comments
My first question is whether any of you are dissatisfied with the service departments of Subaru dealers along the East coast. I have had some bad experiences with two Toyota dealers in the Washington, D.C. area in the past few years.
My second question is whether any of you test drove the CR-V and Forester for comparison. Please tell me why you choose Forester over CR-V.
I read the Complaint section of the NHTSA website and found more complaints raised by consumers against the Forester than the CR-V for the model year 2000. As a result, I am concerned about the reliability of the Forester. Is my concern valid?
Thanks in advance for your opinions.
The CR-V has several pros: reliability, rear seat room, ground clearance, and efficiency.
And several cons: poor handling, so-so ride, very loud at speed, odd ergonomics, clumsy tailgate (opens curbside), driving position (steering wheel canted left). The autos are also slow.
It was close but it just wasn't fun enough to drive for me.
The Forester is only slightly less reliable (still better than average overall), and the rear seat is tight if you don't move the front seat forward a notch or two.
However, it has plenty of stregths. Full time AWD (not part time 4WD), superior handling, better brakes, more power and torque with equal efficiency, big cargo area, sturdy roof rack, smooth ride, and very quiet cruising.
Forester has won several accolades from the press. They were AAA's small SUV pick 2 years in a row, Strategic Vision's Total Quality winner, Car & Driver's choice in a comparo with the CR-V and several others, and it's been Consumer Reports' top pick since it came out (check the current issue).
Here's a new review from
Motorweek.
They love it, and 9.1s to 60 for an auto is remarkable, especially with 22/28mpg. I have the review on videotape if you want to borrow it (I'm also in the DC suburbs). You can e-mail me.
Dealers are independent, so it's hit or miss. I've been very happy with Fitzgerald Subaru at White Flint, and you can buy from them without haggling. Service was good on my single recall, but nothing has ever broken so I don't have any experience (sorry, I guess!). I do the routine maintenance myself.
Overall, it's a fun, safe vehicle that owners are enthusiastic about. We have several meets in this area, including one in Charlottesville in late October. Last time I handed out free T-shirts from a wholesaler and the event was catered by SoA for free. What was that you asked about service?
I'll look forward to meeting you at one of these events.
-juice
Juice has nailed pretty much why I chose the Forester over the CR-V.
The CR-V is a good 'general' performer. It doesn't excel in any one area, but it doesn't do poorly either. That's one of the reasons why it sells so well aside from the Honda brand name.
I personally wanted a vehicle that handled, accelerated and braked well. My test drive comparisons clinched the decision. The Forester clearly beat the CR-V in these areas. And rightfully so -- the Forester has a better power:weight ratio, lower center of gravity, better brakes and full-time AWD.
Several weeks ago, I was at the Edmunds Live event where you could test drive a bunch of vehicles back-to-back. I took both the Forester and CR-V through a slalom section and then onto a simulated "off-road" track. The Forester zipped through the turns and felt very secure. It's long-travel suspension soaked up the bumps and it's very rigid chassis (a derivated of that used in the WRX rally car)was quiet. In contrast, the CR-V leaned through the turns and you could hear the chassis flex over the big bumps.
Ken
I'm also confident you'll choose the Forester. See you in October...
-juice
The CR-V has an inline-4, and it's rated at 22/25 with either transmission. The Forester gets 22/27 with auto and 21/28 with the manual, both produce better averages.
Meanwhile, I'm averaging 26mpg and enjoying the extra power to boot!
Ryan: rear seat leg room is tight, but that's because there is an enormous amount of front seat travel (14") so it can fit very short females as well as 6 footers like me.
I've found that if you bring the seat forward 2 clicks, noone complains a bit.
Still, the new model comes out for model year 2003, which should be in summer or fall of 2002. The Impreza got only an inch or so more wheelbase, so don't expect a big change. They have the Outback for bigger families.
The good news is that the cargo area is very big for the class, especially with the seats in place, and I have a baby so that's full time. The roof can also carry 150lbs and you can tow one ton (both twice the CR-V's capacity).
Look here and here are some photos you might find humorous. People call it small but it has the attitude and utility of a bigger SUV!
-juice
BTW, I was looking at an S+ the other day and it is the first car I have seen where I like the moonroof . . . and it was HUGE! Unfortunately, the moonroof took up too much of the head room and the top of my head was in contact with the ceiling of the car. Maybe I could get an S+ and have the front seat lowered? . . . just an idea. I would really like to see the car stretched out 3" to give more rear seat leg room. If anybody from Subaru Corporate is browsing these postings take a note and increase the rear seat leg room in the next Forester revision.
The front seat is height adjustable. There are two knobs that adjust the front and rear angle, and it does lower it about an inch or two.
If the power roof doesn't cut it, consider an aftermarket pop-up roof like mine, pictured here. It actually increased head room, since the ceiling liner is gone. Mine's an ASC and was $300, plus $70 to cut the roof rails short, and $30 for a windflector, or $400 total.
I'll make sure our pal Patti Mickel of SoA gets your input.
Do you not like the Outback? It may fit you better, I'm not sure.
-juice
-Frank P.
With mileage worse than Forester, why bother to look at CRV at all ;-)?
I should say though I still did not manage to get anything better than 23 mpg on my Forester, and strangely I'm getting 22-23 mpg no matter where I go: from flat empty freeway to twisties in high Sierra to traffic jam in Silicon Valley...
All are in-line fours and require balance shafts for stability. Funny thing is, Mitsubishi owns the patent so they pay royalties for each one they produce.
Boxers are have perfect first and second order balance and need no such counter-weights.
We all Kate drives like a mad Banshee just before meal time, so the mileage variation is no surprise.
-juice
I don't think I would go with the aftermarket moonroof. Like I stated in my earlier post, I don't like moonroofs in general. The huge moonroof on the Forester is the first I have seen that I liked. And BTW, I did crank down the height adjustment on the seat in the Forester and my head still barely touched the ceiling of the Forester S+.
I moved the seat tracks back an inch or so in my '93 Voyager to get a little more comfortable - still not as good as the '85 Voyager it replaced.
Sounds like the Forester S (not premium) would be best suited for our "big" friend.
Out of curiosity, have you looked at the Forester's seat tracks?
-juice
I have had NO problems with the car. I took it in for the 3,000 mile service (really just an oil change), and otherwise it's it hasn't needed any attention
At first, I didn't like the front seats, but now I am getting very used to them, and have no problems with them even on long drives.
The thing that still surprises me is the ease of driving this car in the city. The high seating position, combined with compact dimensions and an automatic transmission allows me to zip around the congested streets of San Francisco with ease.
Mileage (with an automatic) improved to about 25MPG after the 5000 mile mark.
Overall, I am very happy with this car. I do alot of hiking, and it really is the perfect car to drive to the trail head. I am seeing more and more of them.
So yes it does seem strange that I was initally looking at cars like the Lincoln LS, and ended up with a Forester. Anybody else?
I also live in SF bay area and am "blessed" with 35 mi (one-way) daily commute. Although I take my old Soob (Loyale'92 wagon) on the commute, I enjoy new Forester on weekends (3600 mi so far).
Do you have a book or URL to good hiking trails? I've been trapped in house for a while with my 2 yr old boy, but want to start hiking again.
I test drove the Outback, RAV4, CR-V, Passat, Accord, Contour, and even a Durango, before picking my Forester. I have zero regrets. In fact, I'm more sure about my decision now than ever!
Kate - you should get a backpack child carrier. I have one for Tati, and though she's 33 lbs (big 16 month old!) I can still hike with her on my back. The smaller the baby, the easier it is.
I also put a child carrier on my bike. It's fun to be able to include her!
-juice
or maybe I'm too weak/small...
Lana can only take her for a few minutes, enough to give me a short break.
I'm way out-of-shape, but I also weigh 205 so its only adding about 16% more weight than I normally, uh, "carry".
-juice
No I don't have any pics from the sand dunes ... a shame because it was a lot of fun. In fact I don't have any pics of the car yet. I'll snap a few next time I wash it.
As far as hiking websites ... this one's good
http://www.ebparks.org/parks.htm
I'm partial to Mission Peak myself ... great views.
Am having the upgraded alarm, armrest, rear diffy protector, cargo net and cover, plus hitch added at the port.
Also, has anyone had any experience towing a pop-up (camping) trailer? If so, what size and brand? I'm considering a relatively small one.
Thanks for your feedback.
Be forwarned that others have posted reports of at least the armrest and hitch being on back-order. If this is still the case, you may have to take delivery without and get them installed latter.
-Frank P.
Your auto is actually better suited for towing, since you don't have to slip the clutch. You also have the torquier Phase II engine, so you should have an even easier time towing.
It's a Class I hitch, so that means 200 lbs tongue weight and up to 2000 lbs trailer weight. Subaru recommends trailer brakes if the trailer is over 1000 lbs, so keep that in mind when you shop for a camper.
-juice
-juice
Come if you can, these events are a lot of fun. There will be door prizes, prizes for the top 3 in the Gimmick Rally, and possibly a surprise visit from an SoA rep with a not-yet-production vehicle to preview and drive.
I'd love to meet more of you, so come if you can.
-juice
Engine RPM: I'll have to check but 80-85 mph on the 5-speed should be approx 3500 rpm.
Road Noise: It depends on your perspective. My guess is that it's about avg. Compared to a luxury auto, the Forester is louder but compared to an economy car, it's quieter. My last vehicle was a Jeep and my Forester is much quieter. However, Bob just got a Forester and he thinks that it is louder than his 98 Explorer.
"Rock & bug" deflector: Another matter of personal preference. If you're okay with the way they look, then I'm sure they offer some increased protection from dings.
Extended road trips: I've completed several 600-650 mile trips @ 70-80 mph and have been quite satisfied. However, a couple of owners have expressed a desire for more comfortable seats.
Again this is really something that you need decide for yourself.
Paint Job: There have been a few gripes but I doubt that Subaru has any more complaints than other manufacturers.
Security system/keyless entry: I could be wrong but I think keyless entry is standard on all Foresters. I got the security system upgrade before I found out that Subaru’s have one of the lowest theft rates of any make. So in hindsight, it's probably not necessary.
Good luck with your search.
-Frank P.
Mine is very quiet on the highway, and my 5 speed has about the same overdrive gear as the autos. C&D registered 70 decibels at 70mph, which is quieter than the Infiniti I30t, a supposed luxury car.
I don't have the front deflector yet, but I may get one soon, so I'll let you know how it works.
Sandy has been great on road trips. We've been to Conneticut twice (from DC), Bethany Beach about 10 times, and once to the Outer Banks (6 hours each way). I have a roof top carrier and a bike rack on the hitch, so it fits tons of stuff, including baby gear. I find the seats are firm and supportive - much better than my wife's 626, even though she has leather.
My paint is flawless, though some say the paint isn't the best. I have the L model, with the unpainted plastic cladding, which is very durable and ding-proof.
Keyless is awesome. I had it installed (it was optional back in '98) and love it. The security system is a bargain, so go for it.
Good luck and let us know what you choose.
-juice
Drew/aling
Townhall Community Leader/Vans Conference
-juice
I haven't driven it hard enough yet to explore the limits, but I'll share driving impressions once I do.
I also have a page with more OBX photos (check it out, they're funny), and a photo of the washer I hauled inside this weekend.
-juice
-Frank P.
Email Darlene at QSubaru@aol.com for a quote on the handle.
-Tony
The web site above has her 800 number, too. She has touch-up paint for just $4, and lots of other cool accessories.
Grace: very sweet, keep us posted.
-juice
Every time I visit Fitzgerald, they only have one on the lot, and most of the time it's sold. That may mean you'll have to accept whatever color and options they have in stock, or wait for a special order.
That same dealer also charges a bit more over invoice as compared to the L and regular S models. Again, supply and demand.
-juice
If the vehicle were to be mine, rather than my wife's, it would definitely have been a 5-speed.
Bob
has 75,000 miles.
change oil every 4,000.
had new tires at 70,000.
had new air and fuel filter just put in.
Just recently, i am averaging 13...yes 13 miles a gallon. what the heck happened?
What do i need to do to get this back up besides going to a dealer and having them suck
every dime out of me. There must be an easy fix.
help!!
Javier: the solution is to trade it in for a Subaru Forester. You'll welcome the 26mpg I've been getting!
Kidding. 13mpg may not be out-of-line for such a large vehicle with a big engine.
Make sure you're not in 4WD by mistake (I know it seems obvious, but...). Remove any undeed ballast from the cargo area, if it's full of junk you don't need. Keep the exterior clean for better aerodynamics, and drive as smoothly as you can. Make sure tire pressure is at least 30psi, and check the brakes to make sure they're in good shape and not sticking.
That's about all I can think of for now. Hope your average improves.
-juice
Forester 2001 S Premium Silver Auto
The Chrysler Sebring and Jeep Grand Cherokee use particularly tasteless gold on their wheels.
-juice
We just took Sandy to the apple orchards to pick apples. We were able to get deep into the farm, where few people can get, and found the best apples there.
The wife's apple pie was great!
-juice