Subaru Forester (up to 2005)

joseph50 · August 2003

I've posted before on this. But it since it came up again with new reader/owners/potential owners:
My 2001 S is just barely adequate in this area.
I had it checked out by a personal mechanic and dealer guys. All say it gives the best its got. The dealer guys gave me some jive that "The B14 is not as good as the earlier B12 cooler unit" (or was it B16 and B14?). Darn, it's loud on the 4 setting, and sounds like it's really working hard. Anyway, let it me the most of my concerns.
Supremely happy otherwise.

jason_els · August 2003

>Re: fog lights, I could never figure out why they come on in >conjunction with, instead of, regular beams. Not with high beams, >sure, but I think regular beams destroy their utility just as well. >Any thoughts?

In the US it is illegal to have more than four headlight bulbs lit at any one time. Some headlights use both the low and high beam bulbs at the same time so if the fogs stayed on that could total 6. Thus the foglights are universally designed to go out when the high beams come on. The US has been historically and notoriously late in adopting new headlight technology; witness the recent HID fiasco. Having done nothing until recently to curb the use of cheap illegal blue bulbs, the DOT has only encouraged manufacturers and consumers to shy away from true HIDs.

hypov · August 2003

I understood the max to be 6?
Can't remember where I got that notion/info from.

-Dave

ateixeira · August 2003

Joe: try insulating the pipe that carries the cold air towards the fire wall. Its path is right above the hot engine, on the driver's side. I think that would help.

My wife's Legacy cools well also, and that's a 2002. Maybe that one is a higher capacity unit, I dunno.

-juice

speterson1 · August 2003

While we're chatting about A/C, that reminds me of another question - why does the owner's manual only recommend the air intake setting be on "fresh" and not "recirculate" when using the A/C? When it's really hot and humid outside, isn't it a lot easier for the compressor to cool the interior air that's already cooler than constantly pulling in hot, muggy fresh air? Maybe it's all in my head, but whenever it's been really awful outside I set the system on recirculate and it seems to be a bit cooler inside than if I'm taking in fresh air. Any insights on this?

Steve

paisan · August 2003

4 is only in communist states like CA, but most manufacturers build their cars to the specs of the lowest common denominator. NY IIRC is 6.

-mike

subkid · August 2003

While debating Forester vs. CRV, I was following CRV forums and found out about a couple interesting things that they do to CRV - custom programming to certain features.

Window defrosting - AC comes on, and if you want to prevent that, it's possible to re program its behavior.

Auto window - functionality can be switched off or on.

So, is it possible to do a custom programming to a Forester?

K

daniell · August 2003

If you mean the transmission lag (from a dead stop only) I still have it. I tried using premium gas only, and it did not solve the problem (at least it did not make it worse). I was hoping an ECU reprogamming would cure the problem, but my Forester apparently already had the right ECU code. Now at 21 K miles, the famous "hot smell" is gone, but I am getting steering wheel vibration when braking at highway speeds. Will have the dealer look into these 2 issues at the next oil change. Also, will probably buy the extended warranty, since I plan to keep the car for at least 5-7 years.

ateixeira · August 2003

K: I don't think so, but then again I don't have a model with climate control.

-juice

subkid · August 2003

ateixeira,
I didn't mean those specific features, but re programming in general. I'm almost sure that every computer controlled car has some way of playing with it that isn't made public. And BTW, I think that my owner's manual states that AC comes on during defrosting no matter climate or not (I don't have it also)

K

georgeinmd · August 2003

The pipe you refer to carries low pressure, gaseous phase refrigerant from the evaporator (where cooling takes place, in the heating/cooling unit in the passenger compartment) back to the A/C compressor. Insulating it would have no effect on cooling efficiency. -- George

stever · August 2003

Starts in about 15 minutes - see the banner at the top.

Steve, Host

glenvillesub · August 2003

Greetings. After reading these message boards for years I finally decided to sign in and post. Just bought a 2004 forester. Previous to it I had several outbacks. Up here in the north we always run snow tires and I'm wondering if I will have any problem putting the four P225 60 R16's snow tires from my outback on the forester, which has P215 60 R16's. I'm sending this from work, the car isn't here, so I hope I got the sizes correct. I'm betting if I ask the subbie dealer they will advise to stay with the stock sizes. Anyone ever gone up a size like this? Any advice would be appreciated.

tidester · August 2003

Welcome aboard! It's about time you decided to jump in!

While you're waiting for a Subie to reply (c'mon, gang!) you might check out the general tire discussion in Tires, tires, tires.

tidester, host

mckeown · August 2003

Subaru has released a Service/Info Tip to it's dealers regarding the 'quirks' of the 4EAT. They have also released a similiar bulletin to subscribing service shops via "endwrench". See the writeup starting on pg.4 of the following link:
http://www.endwrench.com/current/Current6/03/InsiderInfo.pdf

kullenberg · August 2003

They should fit; they will be .2" taller in radius, and a little less than 3/4" wider. The biggest problem is that your spare won't match, and could cause a problem, if you had to use it. Subies are very sensitive to all the tires being the same circumference. If you get a spar of the matching size, make sure it will fit in the spare tire well.
Cheers
Pat

ateixeira · August 2003

225/60R16 should barely fit, squeeking by, depending on the offset of those rims.

I have that size now, but my wheel offset is different, +40mm IIRC. That put the wheels farther out, away from the body, leaving enough space for the bigger tires.

I have my spare inflated to something like 38psi, I'd air down my 225s so more closely match the spare if I ever got a flat. FWIW, the donut on the Legacy seemed to have a bigger difference than my unmatched spare (which is why we changed it).

-juice

lark6 · August 2003

Thanks for the link - very interesting. Seems to me that one of the "cures" for the jerkiness many complain of is not to "lightly accelerate," but to disengage the lockup clutch by punching it!

Interesting also is the internal ad for remanufactured brake calipers. What does the name "Akebono" mean? I'd only heard it before as the name of a now retired sumo yokozuna who is originally from Hawaii.

Ed

rsay777 · August 2003

Just made an appointment for the X and wanted to get some clarification. All my earlier Sub's have had "sealed chassis" and therefore no lubing needed. I thought I read on this board that something needed lubing on the Forester (sway arm, stabilizer or something?) the service mgr said this "There are no grease fittings on any Subaru's" anyway would some get me straight? Thanks, Bob L.

c_hunter · August 2003

That is my understanding as well, so I believe you are correct.

Craig

leo2633 · August 2003

I think you may be referring to a tip to lube the sway bar bushings with lithium grease to prevent squeaks. That has been discussed here occasionally.

Len

ohsubeguy · August 2003

Brian ...
Thanks for this good info. I had a feeling the dealer was giving me a line. Can you comment on thermostats that work at different temps? I've read that keeping the engine at a cooler operating temp inproves performance. One article mentioned installing a 170 degree thermostat vs a 172 degree thermostat. Any opinions or comments?

OHSubeGuy

ateixeira · August 2003

You don't have the lube the chassis, as per old-time oil changes on body-on-frame designs.

However, it helps to grease up the suspension bushings, which might otherwise squeek.

Do this when you rotate the tires, it's wide open and easy to access.

-juice

bsvoller · August 2003

I'm afraid I'm not among the performance gurus here, but there are plenty of them around...

What about changing the thermostat, guys? Advantages, disadvantages?

-brianV

ffsteve · August 2003

2 degrees difference? I would have thought that would be within the tolerances of the thermostat. I would guess 5, 10 or 15 degrees might make a difference in performance, if there is any truth to the rumor.

I've not heard that changes in temperature aids performance in any way - barring the extremes of the cold just-started engine and the over-heated engine.

So I'm interested to hear otherwise.

I think the engine management system is optimized to run the engine at a set temperature. If you lower that set value by replacing the thermostat, then you might confuse the computer which might continue to run the engine a littel richer until it warms - which is never will because the thermostat has been changed. Again, I question if 2 degree would make any difference here either.

Let us know what you find.
Steve

sfarinacci · August 2003

I keep waiting for Subaru to come out with the first. When I talked to the dealer a few months ago, he said the problem was every time they found a fix it would cause something else to go wrong. Quite aggravating!

ohsubeguy · August 2003

I've been asking questions about the Forester thermostat because my '99 Forester has developed an overheating problem. I've had issues with the dealership and don't trust them to work on my Sube after a botched 60K service. Is changing out the thermostat a logical first step? (the radiator overflow tank has plenty of fluid in it) Or do I need to take it in somewhere and have it fully diagnosed? If I don't trust the dealer where do you go?

OHSubeGuy

rmd122 · August 2003

My 98 Forester is at the dealer for a seat belt that is slow to retract. The car has 92K and I was amazed when the service writer said that it may still be under warranty. Anyone know any details about an special seat belt warranty?

dnos · August 2003

I would like to make my 03 Forester X a little "tougher". So far the only things I have is the rear diff skid plate, rear bumper step guard and the tow hitch. I will eventually build my plastic bedliner, but I would like to be able to fully load this mini-wagon up to its limits without having the headlights pointing up. Can the XS self-leveling suspension bolt right up no problem? How about air-springs, are there any made for Subies? Maybe stiffer springs, but I like how it handles and I don't want to increase the ride height. Also, what are my options for light weight front skid plates?

Leo dC

c_hunter · August 2003

huh?

p0926 · August 2003

Little late but I'm quite satisfied with the AC on my 2001 S. However, I do recommend tinting to cut down on the Forester's "green house" effect. With tint, I normally keep the fan speed on 1 but will bump it up to 2 initially if it's been sitting in the sun for an extended period of time. I agree that on a real hot day and 3-4 passengers that it does take a while for cool air to reach the back (even with the fan on 3). I don't know if I've ever run it on 4 as it does start to sound like a freight train :-)

-Frank P.

kens · August 2003

I don't know of any particular warranty that covers seat belts, but I would imagine safety items would be covered longer. That's good to know that the dealer would address that right away.

Leo -- The US Forester XS does not have self-leveling suspensions. They are only available for Japan and Australia/New Zealand.

Frank -- Tinting makes a world of difference. Even with a 70% tint (virtually clear) on the driver's side window (that's all that's allowed in CA), I can feel a huge difference in the heat hitting my arm in the summer time.

Ken

kens · August 2003

This weekend I had a project of refinishing my front porch. The first step was to pressure wash off the old paint. I drove to a local Home Depot and rented a 3500psi pressure washer. The unit was about twice the size of an average lawn mower and the staff wasn't sure if it would fit the Forester. I rented some ramps, and the cargo space swallowed up the entire unit without even having to lower the rear seats!

Ken

joybell · August 2003

do you have the older model or the new one? I am curious because I have a feeling that there is less cargo height in the new one. The roof seems to slope down and is not as high.

rsay777 · August 2003

Just doing a little washing on the X when I decided to spray the wheels with some Simple Green cleaner. Did a great job of degreasing the alloys but it turned the side wall of the tires BROWN. I'm talking as if I had forged some good mud. Armor All fixed it up. Whats a good spray that will get the wheels and leave the rubber black? Thanks, Bob L

c_hunter · August 2003

I have used simple green on tires, and it seems to work OK for me. I spray it on, let it sit, and then follow up with a scrub brush.

Craig

p0926 · August 2003

Monica- Ken has a 98 but AFAIK the interior cargo volume has remained constant between model years.

-Frank P.

earthwoman · August 2003

rmd122: My warranty (MY03 Forester) states that seatbelts have a lifetime warranty against defect.

rsay: I use Maguiar's Gold Class Vinyl/Rubber Protectant. It does not turn the tires brown like many products. The tires do get a slight white haze when wet for a prolonged period (a day or so) though. It is available at Auto Zone. They also have a webiste www.maguiars.com.

saint264 · August 2003

Questions about Edmunds pricing:

1) Edmunds lists an XS and an XS with Premium Package (about $1000 more). However, dealer literature doesn't describe such a difference. What is in Edmunds Premium Package?

2) Edmunds says if I buy a Popular Equipment Group for $282 three options are included (splash guards, cargo tray & rear bumper cover). However, when I look at the price sticker on the window of the car, the invoice shows the price for the Popular Equipment Group AND the three "included" options. Which is correct?

3) The dealers I've talked to have a cold weather pkg (heated seats & mirrors, front wiper defrost). I can't find these on Edmunds.

4) The dealer tells me "invoice pricing on the internet can have errors." I used to consider this garbage, but given the discrepancies noted above, I'm beginning to wonder. Help!

tidester · August 2003

All the options are listed here.

You may also wish to provide our editors with feedback.

tidester, host

p0926 · August 2003

1) Re-check your Forester brochure. The optional premium package is listed at the bottom of page 26 (Monotone body color and power moonroof).

2) The "Popular Equipment Group" does indeed include the items listed (usually at a slight discount from what they would cost separately). It's possible that the maroney sticker (window sticker) lists the options twice but only once should be with a price. If it appears that they're trying to make you pay twice you should point out the error to the dealership.

3) The cold weather (aka All-Weather) package comes standard on the XS and XT and isn't available on the X. Therefore the heated seats & mirrors, front wiper defrost, rear LSD and EBD (see pg 9 in brochure) are listed as standard items for these models by Edmunds.

4) Au contraire! From my rather extensive research, Edmund's prices are almost always to within the nearest dollar of the manufacturer's invoice pricing (Kudos to Edmunds!). The only exception I know of is New England dealers slap on a couple hundred dollar "regional advertising" fee.

-Frank P.

kens · August 2003

Frank answered for me but I have 1998 Forester S. I don't think the cargo space has changed in the newer models except for the sunroof and center rear seatbelt housing.

Ken

eps105 · August 2003

As a previous owner of a '99 Forester L traded in for an '03 XS prem, I can assure you that the cargo space is not smaller in the '03. In fact, Subaru claims to have incrementally increased cargo space (few nips and tucks) and claims that the hexagonal shaped opening is wider. I cannot argue those claims. Even with the middle seat belt and the inch or so taken by the sunroof, I don't think the opening area is any smaller. The appearance of the sloped roof and lower roofline is an optical illusion created by the new body panels. The exterior dimensions are almost identical and has no more slope than the old.

Elliot

glenvillesub · August 2003

Thank you for the input on using the tires from my outback on my Forester.I had kinda forgotten about the spare tire problem. They look like they should fit, but looks can be deceiving...... In any case, I like the way the Forester handles over my previous Outbacks, And I find the seating position more comfortable. Sitting in the outback to long always pinched some nerve in my leg. Much, much better now.Thanks again.

ateixeira · August 2003

Seat belts are a safety item, so even if it's not under warranty, that dealer is establishing good will with a customer, and (very) likely earning your repeat business. It's nice to hear stories like that, no?

Leo: the self-leveling shocks are only offered in Japan, though I guess you could import some at a price. kajko tried iSR's taller, beefier springs and they had issues with the fit on the new models, so that's on hold for now. Primitive does sell a front skid plate you could add for now.

-juice

oregonboy · August 2003

I had the driver's seatbelt on my Nissan pickup replaced under warranty at 150+k miles due to WEAR... the edges were fraying. The dealer suggested that it was a one-time deal. The truck was totaled at 204k miles, so I never found out if I could have done it again for free.

-james

stoner420 · August 2003

We just purchased a Forester XT with AT yesterday.... This vehicle is amazing, the engine is just insane.. I also own an '02 WRX wagon, and although the XT doesn't outperform the WRX in the handling category (but still holds its own quite well), but the engine... wow.

kajko · August 2003

Leo:

the self-leveling suspension is std on Australian 2003+ XS models. there's a good description of the system in the australian write-up of the Forester (i posted a link quite a while back). the struts have a little oil container that pumps more oil when strut is under load. the system is much different from the old (and prone to breakage) air suspension. What's more, 1stsubaruparts website lists the SL struts as available for the Forester here in USA. I'd be very curious if in fact they are. If so, it should be easy to upgrade. The Australians i correspond with tell me that self-leveling is great for loading the car up, e.g. camping trips. As juice mentioned, i am going the stiffer springs route (i want height and stiffness), though still waiting on the 2003 springs...

cheers

purduealum91 · August 2003

I cant believe people are willing to pay more than $24k for the XT Forester. Tell me it isnt true.

stoner420 · August 2003

edmunds shows base invoice is ~24k (incl dest charge) for the automatic... We traded an 01 Accord, so it's hard to get an exact figure, but assuming standard kbb values, we paid just about the edmunds TMV for ours, not much haggling or pricing around either, just went to the first dealer and made a deal.

Subaru Forester (up to 2005)

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