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Comments
What surprised me the most is that this 2.5 liter NA engine gets going good above 4 thousand rpm. It has always felt flat and out of breath around 3500, and this was probably my first and only time to take it above 4000. It felt like it could easily get the Forester up to 120.
John
What year is your Forester and is it manual or automatic?
Thanks,
Donn
J
Michael
115 mph?
XT can do 129. That's crazy though. With the short wheelbase, one sneeze would put you in the trees. Careful out there!
-juice
-juice
They're certainly lower than a Forester, but none is anywhere near as low as half its height. Surprising, maybe, but true. The famous, gorgeous 365GTB4 Daytona, for example, is barely a foot lower than a Forester if you exclude the roof rails. The Maranello is taller than the Daytona.
How fast have you gone? I guess I've never really pushed it. I think I've hit 95 or so, but by accident, not realizing how fast I was going when completing a pass.
-juice
One is built to go 60, but maybe can do 100.
The other built to go 120, but has to settle most of the time for 60.
Having said that, my old Trooper at 75 felt dangerously unstable, the Forester was rock solid without a hint of drift at 95. My guess would be that the Yokohamas become an issue before the chassis/suspension falter at these speeds, what say you Jack?
John
Based on how the XT feels in the upper 70s, I'd say it would do fine cruising all day on decent roads at 100+ - except for the high-winding 4.44 axles.
I can do it myself in a heartbeat. I checked it at 15K miles, and it really was't all that dirty (vs. my 1999 Mercury Cougar V6 cabin air filter). I'm sure it's ready for a change at 34K. That price is just a bit of a shock.
Thanks,
burnsmr4
Those filters are pricey, that's about the going rate. FWIW, mine was clean after a year of use, but got filthy (nasty filthy) after 3 years. Can't explain why the latter years seemed to be dustier, but I'm glad I didn't inhale any of that stuff!
-juice
Chuck
Living in California I would have to add shipping which was about six to eight dollars. I opted to buy the filters from a local dealer at $39.95 + tax. Yes, they are a snap to install. It took me all of 90 seconds in the dealer parking lot.
After exactly two years of filter use and the worst forest fires in California history (I live in San Diego and I now know what hell looks like)the filters were dirty but not as bad I was expecting. Since I live at the coast most of my driving is in very clean air to begin with except for the aforementioned smoke and ash for about a week. The suggested replacement is every 7,500 miles which is just ridiculous.
Every 12-24 months depending road conditions (dusty back country, lots of off-road travel etc. would be at the lower end of the range) should be a good schedule. The filters really do make a difference in cabin air quality. I had taken out the old filters and while driving for a day or two before buying the new ones was amazed at what I had been, thankfully, missing!
Hey Juice, what's the best price/best unit for six cd changer to replace my factory original single disc unit? My set-up is the tuner am/fm/cassette with the cd right below it but in a separate unit. All the controls for the cd unit are on the tuner, except for the eject button.
Thanks!
Donn
And about the cabin filters ... I had planned on getting one in my Forester but was talked out of it by my salesman, who said the filter is not a DIY replacement and most people who get them regret it because they're a pain. Oh well, I didn't consider it a big deal either way.
Regarding cabin filters: Come on! you should know better than to believe anything a salesman says! :-) The replacement is simple and has been pointed out, unless you drive thru sandstorms on a daily basis, it shouldn't need changing more than one a year at the most. So the $40 cost per filter isn't that bad and they really do make a difference. FYI: you can still get one. I'm almost positive that all Foresters are pre-configured to accept the cabin filter and all you have to do is cut one piece of plastic.
Juice can you confirm or deny that?
-Frank P.
Gene
I have the exact same stock Subaru stereo you just described in our 2001 L, and our CD player has recently died. Last night I won a bid on eBay for a brand new 6-CD changer that is installed in the Subaru Legacy, but it will also fit in the Forester (Subaru P131, single-DIN unit, same size as what we both have now). I paid $112 for the auction bid and another $17 for shipping and insurance to bring the total to just under $130. I thought this was a pretty fair price for a 6-CD changer. Only drawback is no more cassette deck but I can live with that no problem. Do a search on eBay for "subaru CD player" and you will get a lot of choices to look at. Good luck if you decide to go that route!
I'll skip the $6 shipping and just buy mine at the dealership. I'll see about haggling them down a little beforehand. Every 30K (nearly 2 years for my car) seems about right for a cabin filter change to me.
Regarding the seat warmer -- I just keep a can of baked beans in the car and my seat heats up just fine. ;-P
Poot joke aside, my 2002 Subaru Forester S seat warmers work fine. The low setting is just right for browning...er...warming my buns until the heat kicks in on a cold morning. The high setting is only necessary if the temp drops below 30 degrees in my area.
I will note that my wife has a 1998 Volvo S70 with heated LEATHER seats. Talk about a scorching. I used her seats after working a 12 hour kids carnival (including setup and breakdown of about 15 tents/10 inflatable slides) to work out my sore back. It was like a thermonuclear blast on my [non-permissible content removed]. Not out of my [non-permissible content removed], I should say. I almost burned myself when I shifted around in the seat.
My 2 cents...and poot jokes. ;-)
Later,
burnsmr4
CD changer: If this is the one:
then you got a really good deal. The retail price is $495. Just make sure your head unit has changer controls!! Not all of them do.
Craig
My 1998 has just one pollen/dust filter. Frank is right, there was a plastic cut-out I removed with an Exacto knife, then 3 screws fasten the cover. The filter slides in and out. Tools required: exacto knive, stubby phillips screw driver.
-juice
If this is not the right site, perhaps someone can re-direct me.
John
Bob A.
Forester: many more options, better "construction", better mpg, proven AWD system (the Element, if you get AWD, only comes on when wheel slip happens). Gauges and ergonomics superior. You might find that with an equivalent, AWD Element with the same features, the price is not much different.
Element: I wasn't sure about the electro-mechanical steering complexity and durability; gauges were just awful, and radio/CD non existant on base model. Have to deal with the Honda "mystique" dealerships.
John
Was there AGAIN for another Oxygen sensor 48K and now out of warrenty.
The suicide doors are unique, and great for creating a wide opening for cargo, but...they'd be a nuisance if you drop off rear passengers regularly because you have to remove the front seat belt to open the rear door, since that's where it's anchored.
I think it's good for the hobbyist, surfer, empty nester who only carries passengers rarely and can benefit from the water resistant interior.
Forester is far more conventional, seats 5, can tow more, has more payload, and more safety features. The base Forester X has side head/chest air bags, while the Element DX doesn't have ABS, side air bags, or even A/C.
The EX is better equipped but still compares more closely to the Forester X in terms of equipment levels. In that case the price difference is about $1200 or so.
You should ask yourself if the Element really meets your current needs. If so, it's a good value IMO.
-juice
I agree that the gauges on the Element EX are awful, and I like the Subaru X AWD better than the Honda's. On my test drives I felt that the Element was more spacious and a bit quicker off the line but that the Subaru was more comfortable (though a touch cramped), more responsive in the mid-range, and quieter. Do these impressions hold up over the long haul?
As for price: I can get an 2003 Element EX AWD manual for about $18,900 and the best quote I've gotten for the comparable 2004 Forester X is $21,700. Am I not getting a good price from Subaru dealers?
Wow! You responded on both my requests. Thanks. I've already reacted on the Subaru forum site, and it is clear that the Connecticut Subaru dealer is not cutting me a break, at least on the initial quotes (the Honda dealer went right to the bottom line), so I guess I'm in for some haggling.
I do like the Subaru safety records and its warranty, and I wonder if the resale will hold up more versus the "trendier" Element.
One thing you might help me on: I can't seem to understand the benefit of the Forester XS AWD over the X AWD. The salesman explained it, but it didn't make much sense (he kept saying that the manual was different from the automatic, too, in both trims, at which point I got lost). I am only interested in a manual; is there a difference between X and XS? Is it worth 2 grand? I don't off-road though I live on a modestly well maintained dirt road.
Fitzmall.com has an X auto for $19.4k, ask your dealer to match that price. That includes freight, even. There is a $750 incentive IIRC, so aim for $750 under invoice if you're negotiating that way.
Since you're shopping automatics, forget about the 2nd system used in manuals.
The XS has a rear limited-slip differential, for a little extra added traction. The X' is open, but I have open diffys and my Forester is still great in snow. Besides, Element has no LSD even available.
You're on the right track. See what kind of deal you can get. There are lots and lots of Subaru dealers up in CT, my in-laws live there.
-juice
Automatic Foresters use a different center differential. Instead of the viscous coupling, they use a variable clutch pack. It typically directs most power to the front wheels (90/10?), but can quickly change the front-rear proportion as needed.
http://www.1stsubaruparts.com/library/
hope that helps...a lot of stuff there.....
Can you tell me what is meant by a "$750 incentive IIRC"
All things considered, I'm definitely leaning to the 2004 Forester X 5-speed. I figured out why the Ct. dealer quote was so high: they automatically added what they called "typical options," amounting to over $1200.
Now, my next question: is the "premium audio" system worth $800? It does have a sub-woofer, which I suspect I would like.
Premium audio - not for that price. Ken got some Sony speakers and sent me his - so I have before/after experience. They're a little better, but no way I'd pay $800 for that. I have the 4 premium sound speakers. I guess you also get the powered sub and the 2 tweeters, but still, I'd go aftermarket.
You will find that the Subaru Crew is a resourceful group, more so than any other on Edmunds.com. We have manufacturer presence here (Patti Mickel from SoA) to help resolve any outstanding issues, which I don't think any other group enjoys. We have our own Community area, of which I'm Community Host (being helpful is my role, basically).
SoA even accepts our input for new products - I am personally going as Subaru's guest to the Detroit auto show next month, air fare and hotel paid for. They truly care about the Subaru Crew and our opinions.
We also have a weekly chat, the longest running here on Edmunds.
That's just some of the perks. Pick the vehicle you like best. :-)
-juice
Hopefully the Premium speaker option for $800 is the one that includes the 6 disc cd changer, which is $400 on its own.
What Juice is saying is that you should be able to find a dealer willing to sell you a Forester X for close to $750 under invoice (as listed on Edmunds). Now given the current weather you're having in NE getting that figure might take some serious haggling. You can of course drive south to the DC area and buy one from Fitzmall.com for about that price.
From what you've said, I think the manual tranny X's full-time 50/50 power split AWD system is more than adequate for your needs (and is far superior to the Element's). I also agree that the "premium" sound system isn't worth anything close to $800. Of course the price of that is negotiable too but even at invoice I think it's still pricey.
One final thought, you don't really need the XS's rear LSD but you might want to consider whether the all-weather package is worth it. I would imagine that the windshield & sideview mirror heaters along with the heated seats would come in pretty handy right about now :-)
-Frank P.
Package 2 includes 4 upgraded door speakers and adds a pair of tweeters and a subwoofer with amplifier. The dealer invoice price for this is $310 as a package. Individually, the invoice prices are $131 for the upgraded door speakers, $67 for the tweeters, and $178 for the subwoofer and amp. This package is also available on the XS.
Package 1 (available only on the base X version) includes everything above plus a 6-disk in-dash changer. Invoice price for this is $614. The 6-disk changer itself comes standard on the Forester XS version.
The $800 you mentioned must be the MSRP for Package 1. No one should pay MSRP for option packages.
Can you tell me what is meant by a "$750 incentive IIRC"
"IIRC" is shorthand for "if I recall correctly".
I would not however spring for the "upgraded sound system" unless they have really upgraded it. In my opinion the Forester sound system -- no matter which one -- generally sucks and definitely isn't worth the price. I really wish we had changed ours. The dealer keeps insisting we get such bad reception because we live in the country (if you turn on the windshield wipers you get too much static to listen to the radio), but the sound system in our Nissan Maxima is great everywhere.
I'm sure you'll like whatever car you get. Hondas are great vehicles too.
'24 Chevy Blazer EV 2LT
-Frank P.
'24 Chevy Blazer EV 2LT
maybe the antenna isn't plugged in in the back of the unit. IIRC someone had a problem with receptionl but in his case it was after installation of an aftermarket unit. Anyways, his problem ended up being the antenna harness wasn't plugged in.
-Dave
The 03 has an in-glass antenna, which requires power. I would check to make sure there is no obvious damage to the antenna in the rear quarter glass. To further troubleshoot the problem, I would check the connection going to the glass and to the radio. The reasons I say this: 1) I have heard of improperly installed glass/antenna systems (say if the rear window were broken and replaced) and 2) in many used cars, people swap the stock stereo back in when they trade/sell the car, after having an aftermarket system installed. This is often done wrong or sloppily. A lot of people and installers don't even know that you need to connect the "power antenna" line to the radio harness. They assume that means one of those power up/down antennas, but in this case, it refers to power going to the in-glass antenna, which has an amplifier. I have probably seen hundreds of posts about poor reception on various forums, and it all traces back to people not powering the antenna. So that's the most likely culprit.
Craig
I checked Fitzmall, and the prices are super. What's the catch? I can go to Maryland, but I might try a similar place that is closer (if there are any closer to me in CT). Any leads here? In any event, I suspect I have a good bargaining chip.
Interesting that there was lots of discussion about audio issues. My two current vehicles get remarkably different reception, and the dealer for the bad one has basically given up trying to fix it. Who knows; maybe that's just a crap shoot.
-Frank P.
http://www.vanbortelsubaru.com/
I have heard that their prices are inline with Fitzmall.
You might also want to contact "raybear" (Ray Baldwin, sales@crabtreesubaru.com) who frequents this board. He's a sales guy at a dealer in Shelton CT, and may be able to give you a fair deal.
Craig
Re the premium audio system: I have it on my XS and am really happy with it.