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Subaru Forester (up to 2005)

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Comments

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'm sure there is some tolerance, but not a lot.

    A tire like that Yokohama lasts, what, 35k miles or so?

    I would not be too hard to measure.

    -juice
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    My Geolander's lasted 50k and still had some tread left. Somebody else got similiar mileage (Ken perhaps?)

    -Frank P.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    50k is more than I thought. I only got 28k out of my Duelers. Luckily they don't even use 15" rims any more, they won't clear the brakes!

    -juice
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Yeah the Duelers sucked but the Yokos are actually pretty decent tires that do well (but not great) in most areas.

    -Frank P.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Funny thing is, had it not been a 2003, I'd have suggested to swap out the Duelers regardless of the mileage, LOL.

    -juice
  • jtm4jtm4 Member Posts: 60
    The Duelers on our '98 L lasted 27k. After that we went through a set of Discount Tire's Arizonians in about 40k. I kept them rotated and properly inflated, too. It wasn't our driving style, just the quality of the tire. We put a set of Yoko Avid Ts on for the third set. This is the best car tire I've ever driven on. They're quiet and they provide good traction in wet and dry conditions. We don't have snow in my area of Texas so I can't attest to the tire's snow performance.

    Jim
  • ezshift5ezshift5 Member Posts: 858
    .....by this board parallels a running faucet....

    ..just keeps flowing: (1) the X has a less expensive windshield in the event of a rock crack.

    (2) 50k on the stock Geolanders sounds great!!

    Happy New Year to all...still saving my Naval Reserve pay for a Forester.....ez
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    ...the information provided...by this board parallels a running faucet...

    So, Fletch, now we're all a bunch of drips,eh?

    <ducking and running>
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    They can't even spell "Forester", never mind that they rank the Neon higher than a Civic, Legacy, and RAV4.

    More importantly, how can the Escape rank worst of all, and then Tribute not even show up on the list? They supposedly factor sales, so logically the twins would be right up next to each other, as they are on more scientific ratings such as JD Power and CR.

    -juice
  • subarusaleshousubarusaleshou Member Posts: 161
    is the law firm. Bunch of attorneys trolling for suits where there aren't any. More of the masses that undermine and degrade the quality and opinion held of the minority. Lawyers... one of the few instances where the minority is superior to the majority.
  • mckeownmckeown Member Posts: 165
    After 'browsing' many of the complaints, I have to admit, I have seem Most if not ALL of them posted on this and other Subaru Boards. Anything from hesitation, engine accellerating when cold, transmisssion delay when putting into drive right thru the clutch jutter complaints and even my own backfiring when shifting (Guess others have formally complained).
  • subkidsubkid Member Posts: 94
    >>>Lawyers... one of the few instances where the minority is superior to the majority. <<<

    Other instances would certainly include car dealers ;)
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
    with around 5k miles on the my new forester = zero times in shop

    with around 5k miles on long gone '00 windstar = 6 times in shop

    that list is a good laugh
  • hayduke01hayduke01 Member Posts: 128
    We don't know the details of any of the cases posted on that firm Web site. It's possible, even probable, that some of the larger settlements or jury verdicts were made possible by the defendants'attempts to deny any responsibility and to evade their legal obligations under their own warranties and under applicable state and federal law.

    Every one of those defendants probably had an opportunity to perform its contractual or statutory obligations, but chose not to despite repeated requests to make it right. It is those decisions that create the demand that keeps attorneys productively employed.

    Contrary to popular opinion, defendants don't just give money away when plaintiffs make demands. Typically a party's bargaining power is defined by the likely outcome at trail. When a case settles the parties reach an agreement. They do so to avoid the uncertainty and expense of trial, but also knowing the possible and probable outcomes at trial.

    I don't look for the type of work promoted on that Web site. But I have made GM cough up some money on a warranty claim; I've also made an auto dealer take back a new car and return a trade in due to some extremely offensive sales tactics.

    I'll concede that it's possible the legal profession isn't perfect.

    But for those of you on the "kill all the lawyers" bandwagon, consider this: there's sufficient demand for our services that America now supports over one million attorneys. I believe that most of that demand is based on honest grievances and genuine injuries.

    Most attorneys are far too busy to accept frivolous cases.

    Looking beyond the lawyer bashing, which is entertaining even to me at times, I have to say that I think this is a great forum and a great community.

    Happy New Year to you all!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Actually, thinking more about this, I'm surprised to see any Hondas on there at all. Thing is, Honda tends to buy back cars that have repeated defects. This takes them out of circulation, and helps their numbers look good.

    Some would argue this skews their numbers, but customers are happy, so...

    I recall seeing a lemon list from Florida and Honda was the only make that did not have a single car on it.

    One guy who serves as an expert witness on lemon law trials says Hyundais and Kias are still the most common ones he sees, yet the list has ZERO KIAS AND HYUNDAIS. LOL

    -juice
  • samiam_68samiam_68 Member Posts: 775
    Looked through some of the cases, most seem true and legitimate. Check out the 2004 Outback windshield cracking when the defroster was turned on. A lot of people on these forums have cracked windshields on brand new or relatively new cars - definitely a Subaru defect.

    I'm actually going to fill out a complaint about the seatbelts and the climate control. These could be considered dangerous and more than just annoying - loss of vehicle control due to seatbelt locking for no reason and loss of visibility due to icing up of the windshield becuse of a useless front defroster.

    No, I'm not a lawyer, but I do find amusement in people on these forums defending Subaru like it was their own company. Remember, Subaru makes money, a LOT of money, from its consumers, therefore it should strive to please the consumer, not strive to have the consumer defend the shortfalls of its vehicles.

    Toyota/Lexus would not be the most reliable car brand in the world if they didn't address design flaws discovered by their customers. Subaru should take a lesson from them.

    Just my 2 cents....
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    OK, but let me play Devil's Advocate here for a second.

    You say Toyota is the most reliable car brand in the world, yet the make the #2 Lemon!

    Apparently the most reliable brands are Kia, Hyundai, and Suzuki, which fail to make the list. OK, try not to laugh!

    See my point? And BTW, I was defending Honda and Buick (in another thread), and attacking the Mazda Tribute (I own a Mazda Miata).

    -juice
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    I'll concede that it's possible the legal profession isn't perfect.

    No profession is. Certainly some in my CPA field have drawn fire over the past several years. Still, let me be the first to nominate the quote above for "understatement of the millenium".

    there's sufficient demand for our services that America now supports over one million attorneys.

    Made possible by (1) encouraging several successive generations to grow up believing that every single bad thing that ever happens (even happenstance things, and especially things mainly caused by one's own carelessness or stupidity) is a golden opportunity to shift the blame to someone (anyone!) else and then extort money from them, and (2) the refusal of Congress and legislatures (most of whom are <gasp> lawyers) to ever even minimally police their own by enacting anything resembling real, fundamental tort reform.
  • samiam_68samiam_68 Member Posts: 775
    Juice,

    From the many people I know who own(ed) Toyotas/Lexi, myself included, I have never heard anyone complain about their cars. Complaints about the dealerships, yes, but never the product itself.

    From the several people I know who own(ed) Subarus, myself included, every single one had gripes about the cars themselves, most regarding either poor design or reliability.

    Granted, my sampling may not represent the entire consumer base accurately, I tend to go with what I know to make a statement that Subarus are less reliable than Toyotas in general.

    Just my humble opinion.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I am a little shocked, did you sleep through the sludge debacle?

    Toyota's behavior was just awful, and yes, some Lexus models were also affected (ES300, RX300). They only folded after a very effective public/internet campaign pressured them to, against their will.

    We are talking about complete engine failures, $6000-8000 repair bills. They blamed customers.

    Here is an article, the link still works:

    http://www.autonews.com/article.cms?articleId=38302&a=a&b- t=sludge

    3.3 million bad engines! Did you know that dealers actually were offering "De-Sludge Specials" where they'd flush oil detergents through engines to clean them?

    Toyota had a hard earned reputation for reliability, but face it, they choked. Badly. They're big enough to overcome that debacle, sure, but notice how the 3.0l V6 has been phased out?

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'm not arguing that they are perfect, but I certainly have seen a much higher level of cooperation from SoA than I have from Toyota, or any other make for that matter.

    The mere presense of Patti on these boards is a big deal, most makes wouldn't risk it.

    Has Subaru has some bumps? Sure. Wheel bearings on Forester/Impreza up until 2002. O-rings and gaskets in some 2.5l Phase I engines. Clutch issues, too.

    But SoA honors those claims under warranty, something Toyota tried to wiggle out of. Fortunately, consumers were empowered enough to force them to put their foot in their mouth.

    -juice
  • samiam_68samiam_68 Member Posts: 775
    Was not aware of the sludge problem. Three people I know personally drive a '98 and a '99 ES300 and a '99 Sienna without problems (so far). Hopefully they won't get the sludge malaise.
    But you're right, each car make has its share of problems.
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Holy cow, yet another subject that Jack and I completely agree on!

    Oh well, on that happy note I'm off to pick-up my now leather upholstered FXT (camera in hand).

    -Frank P.
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    off to pick-up my now leather upholstered FXT

    Loving leather as I do, it really ticks me off that you of all people managed to wangle a 5-speed leather-throned XT. Life is so unfair. It just makes me feel like suing somebody.
  • subarusaleshousubarusaleshou Member Posts: 161
    also applies in the car sales profession. I'll be the first to agree with that.

    America "supports" over a million lawyers because they are so busy filing suit against McDonald's when the hot coffee stuck between their legs burns them and assorted other situations.

    Definitely the legal profession is needed and just as definitely it is overpopulated and severely abuses it's reponsibility and trust to society.

    I have 3 friends who are good and ethical attorneys. I also see plenty of examples of abuses to the system and the costs to society caused by those less than ethical attorneys.

    I just wonder how much less our Foresters and everything else would cost if we weren't paying for the abuses but only the legitimate claims to society.

    Ok, I'm through with this thread. Not enough blood pressure medicine to stay in this topic.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Sam: just make sure they stick to the more stringent oil change schedule, and more importantly keep all receipts and service documentation. They should definitely not stretch oil change intervals.

    I do my own service, so I use my.subaru.com. Don't know if Toyota has a similar site but if I owned one I'd look into that.

    Cool Frank! Congrats! I can host pics if you want.

    FWIW, I've worked with an excellent lawyer (real estate settlement attorney) and a very good salesman (at fitz Subaru), so I'm not complaining.

    -juice
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    McDonalds got everything they deserved and the judge was wrong to lower the judgment.

    But we're all off-topic and I'm exercising my host prerogative and getting the last word in :-)

    Back to the Forester (bashing car dealers is still topical I suppose <g>).

    Steve, Host
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    if it wasn't (most likely) for lawyers, US-spec Subies would have higher tow ratings to match those in other countries...

    Frank, you're right; I just broke my promise about not mentioning towing here anymore. :) Oh well, win some, lose some...

    Bob
  • rsay777rsay777 Member Posts: 100
    It was suggested to me by my sister that if I pointed the fob at my chest it would increase the range. I believe she is correct. It has worked three times in a row. I haven't put it under any scientific scrutiny other than just walking up to the car in the parking lot. FWIW. Bob L.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I heard chin.

    Steve, Host
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Yep, holding it under your chin is suppose to maximize the range. Something about turning your body into an amplifying antenna.

    -Frank P.
  • originalbitmanoriginalbitman Member Posts: 920
    As strange as it sounds it works everytime... and from greater distances than I would have guessed. BTW my Soob is almost 3 years old and still the original batteries in the remote.

    bit
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    BIt- Mine were still going strong at the 3 1/2 year mark.

    -Frank P.
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    Whether or not the chin tactic had any actual effect on earlier Sube remotes, it does absolutely nothing for the '04 fobs. Both of mine have to practically touch the door glass before anything happens. Ridiculous.

    McDonalds got raped. Darwin's natural selection somehow failed to weed out that plaintiff.
  • subarusaleshousubarusaleshou Member Posts: 161
    paces away from the car. I roughly estimate my pace at 2.5 feet so that's about a 75 foot range. I think atmospheric conditions or sunspots or something affects it though because sometimes it's only good for maybe 20-30 feet.

    Another vote for McDonald's got screwed. That's the same person who's ready to sue them now for "cold coffee" since they lowered the temp to protect her thighs. Anyone not driven by attorney/client greed would have told her "That's really awful what happened to you. I guess now you know better than to put hot coffee between your legs."
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    My "Subaru" fob is identical in every way to my friend's "BMW" fob. Same keyless entry system. Mine works fine; he suffers the same problem Jack does. My spare fob does too.

    We have the Subaru Crew Cafe for debating the legal system and burned thighs.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    My keyless batteries are 5 1/2 years old (at least) and they still work with the chin trick!

    Time for new batteries, I guess. Range has never been that good, but honestly it hasn't gotten worse in more than 5 years!

    -juice

    PS Loosh in the Forester thread? Oh man, you know he's got the XT on his mind...
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    *heh heh heh*

    It's going to be hard to stay on the fence, Juice, especially if we're not getting Leg pricing on Monday.
  • subarusaleshousubarusaleshou Member Posts: 161
    seem to be more like a light switch than a rheostat, at least in my experience. It seems rather than dwindling down they drop like a rock, still functioning but at a fraction of the previous level. Batteries are inexpensive enough that I replace mine every other year just to be sure.
  • hayduke01hayduke01 Member Posts: 128
    Recently my low fuel warning light has been lighting earlier than usual, once when the gauge showed 1/4 tank remaining.

    It's an intermittent problem, doesn't happen every tank. Sometimes after lighting early it goes out, to return at the appropriate time, other times it remains.

    A related question: has anyone run their Forester out of gas? I know it's not a good thing to do, but just wondering how far down the gauge really goes.

    DISCLAIMER: This perceived funtionality issue is one that I characterize as "minor." It does not detract from my appreication or enjoyment of my Forester. I do not contemplate, intend or plan the filing of a lawsuit.
  • wzeiserwzeiser Member Posts: 35
    Fuel economy ended up being an issue in my decision (that and the lack of moonroof and leather in the 5-speed, but we've been through that already). The Forester XS fuel economy is rated at 21/28 for the 5-speed (the standard 2.5 liter boxer engine) and the XT at 18/23. Meanwhile, the Impreza TS Sport Wagon (2.5 liter) also gets 21/28, yet (and here's my point) the Impreza Wagon WRX gets 20/27 with a 2.0 liter turbo engine.

    I take it the same kind of conversion was not possible with the Forester?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It was, it is, actually. Overseas they've sold 2.0l turbo Forester for years, with anywhere from 170 to 240 hp.

    But...SoA probably thought turbo lag would be too bothersome. Foresters are used more often for towing (it's even pre-wired) and you don't want a sudden surge of unpredictable power hauling heavy loads.

    So they went with a torquier, less laggy 2.5T. But 25% more displacement coupled with a shorter final drive ratio is going to use more fuel, any way you look at it.

    The Vue Redline is slightly slower and makes about the same mileage as the auto XT. The XTerra S/C is a guzzler in comparison, and much slower. So I don't think that fuel economy is unusual.

    -juice
  • ezshift5ezshift5 Member Posts: 858
    in decision making - will engender more importance with each passing year (wouldn't you say?)

    With this in mind, what's the best highway MPG noted to date for the FXT.

    Tahoe C: what say you?

    H-2004....ez
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think some have hit 25mpg. I don't recall the low, maybe 17?

    Still, Edmunds' long-term Tribute got 14 mpg on one tank, 16 mpg overall. Makes the XT look like a fuel miser.

    My theory is that Subaru will re-certify the next Forester as a truck. They already did with the Baja, that allows for more looser CAFE standards. 20.7 today, 22.2 to be phased in from 2005-2007.

    Cars have to average 27.5, so I think the Forester won't be called a car for long.

    Let's see the Lexus RX400H (hybrid) when it debuts in Detroit, and how popular it is. I think that will influence the market a lot if it's popular, like the Prius is. Highlander would be next. Honda and Ford are rumored to be working on them too.

    -juice
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
    i consistently turn around 18mpg in mixed driving and have gotten as low as 14.98 in city driving.
  • atlgaxtatlgaxt Member Posts: 501
    of the XT where there is info about the fuel economy my recollection was that it was classified as an SUV. I don't know if that means it is already certified as a truck.
  • carinfcarinf Member Posts: 3
    Can someone tell me how to remove the overhead clock from a 99 Forester. thanks
  • wzeiserwzeiser Member Posts: 35
    Juice: I agree that the fuel efficiency of the XT is still better than most in its class, and it might be the only decent 5-speed available with any such power. Also, I see your point on the towing problem, though frankly I am suspicious of how effective in general pre-market analysis really is. Thanks for the clarification.
  • crashton6crashton6 Member Posts: 245
    To remove the clock just take a small screwdriver & put it in the seam at the bottom or top edge of the clock. Pry down & it will pop out. It's a snap fit. Once it's out unplug the wiring connector. Mine went out last January. I bought the replacement from Liberty Subaru 888-suby4wd.

    Chuck
This discussion has been closed.