Subaru Forester (up to 2005)

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Comments

  • lfdallfdal Member Posts: 679
    Hopefully its just looking at the wrong trip odo, but I've seen other dealer's do the same thing - use a customer's car as the parts chaser and the coffee / lunch car for the day, especially if its in for what should be a trivial problem.

    It happened to me once, years ago. I was so ticked I couldn't see straight. I then made it my life's mission to bad mouth that dealer, by telling the truth no less, whenever possible. Wouldn't have been so bad but the moron smoked in the car.... and left the evidence in the ash tray. Aarrrgggh.....

    Larry
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Sheesh Larry, to smoke in a customer's car is either the height of arrogance or stupidity. Regardless of which, I think my blood-pressure would have sky rocketed!

    -Frank
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    To be honest I doubt he lasted at that dealer.

    Happened to a friend of mine when he was about to take delivery, the guy who prepped his Chevy was smoking when he drove it up to him.

    He actually bought a different car. They were lucky he stayed with that dealership at all.

    -juice
  • ezshift5ezshift5 Member Posts: 858
    ...it was 'once for all' that got the 27 (1/2) mpg
    on the Forester XT...somewhat between posts 15270 and 15280, I think......

    At any rate, that's impressive fuel efficiency, IMHO............ez
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    HEY!!!! I better go out and look for that hood scoop and then start lurking the 4 lanes for the next willing 350Z...

    Last I knew, Subaru didn't make any '03 XTs and mine is definitely an '03 but just an ol' XS... sigh. But I love it anyway, all 27.5 mpg. BTW my best was 31 mpg on an all freeway 700 mpg trip Fresno to San Diego and back.

    John
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, they forgot my hood scoop too, on my 1998. I'm still waiting for that recall. ;-)

    -juice
  • ezshift5ezshift5 Member Posts: 858
    ......but am delighted to hear about 31 MPG...ez
  • egretegret Member Posts: 10
    We really like driving it (just test-drove a front-wheel drive, automatical transmission 2005 model) but wonder if the AC is adequate for southern Arizona heat, especially in the back seat for the infant in a car seat.
    Thanks in advance for any thoughts.
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    you were looking at an AWD unit, since that is all Subaru sells. I find the AC unit works superb on my '03 Forester in 100+ Fresno CA weather. I rarely need to take it up to "4" on the fan.

    There have been some complaints (including my own) regarding "Hal" ( the computer control unit for the automatic climate control ) and his apparent disregard for occupant temperature levels. However, the unit on the XS and better has been changed.

    Note, the "X" has an identical AC and ability to keep comfortably cool temps in the vehicle. Just avoid dark colored cars and dark interiors, and consider some type of tinting. I haven't bothered with the latter, but some folks in hot climates recommend it.

    John
  • fredm1fredm1 Member Posts: 2
    I just had the 30K mile service done yesterday. Total cost was about $465 - ouch! Did I get ripped off by the dealership, or is that typical? I half expected to get slapped with a hazardous waste diposal fee as well, but that was not the case. Are all the things they did (changing all fluids and filters) actually necessary at 30K miles? If not, what is the REAL interval that is required?
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    I responded to your question in the Forester vs RAV4 topic.

    -Frank
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Look in the owner's manual -- it tells you exactly what needs to be done at the 30K service. I do my own 30K service, typically for about $100 in parts cost. I can see how it would add up to a few hundred in labor, however, so $300-350 does not seem unreasonable to me. Can't say if $465 is fair, maybe someone else who has paid for the 30K service can comment.

    Craig
  • emnemn Member Posts: 1
    Does anyone have a solution to leaking aluminium rims on our 1999 Forester? I have been having the rims cleaned and sealed every 6 months. The last time after taking it to our local NJ dealer my right tire nearly fell off 3 months later. The head of the service department thinks someone was trying to steal my 5 year old rim. I am tired of taking the tires for service and also risking my life.
  • tazerelitazereli Member Posts: 241
    Well I'll give it a go. I worked at Sears changing tires for 4 years, and I remember some aluminum wheels coming in with slow leaks where all it was, was some corrosion on the rim where the bead of the tire meets the rim. Perhaps some fine grit sandpaper or a wire brush would help if this turns out to be the problem.

    Regards,
    Kyle
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Depending on what was done. I know we charge $265 for the "by the book" subaru 30k. With some increases if people want the tranny and diffy fluids changed or synthetics put in.

    -mike
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    The Edmunds Maintenance Guide will tell you what needs to be done per Subaru and what it should cost in your area of the US.

    Steve, Host
  • edunnettedunnett Member Posts: 553
    My dealer charges similarly expensive rates ($589)for the 30K service but includes FAR more than what you'd see in your owners manual for maint requirements, hopefully your dealer does too. They have a pamphlet on what they do at each interval so I can see it all in black and white and know what I'm paying for.

    Yes, fluids and filters is huge at 30K intervals as well as checking/inspecting several systems. Considering your bumper to bumper warranty expires soon, it's good to have them perform that big service just before. Gives you a little piece of mind that you're all taken care of before you roll off that warranty.

    In general, I think dealers are rip-offs though. They charge far more than an independent shop would for the same service. I plan to do what I can do myself for the 15K and 30K intervals (I can do the filters and fluids) then bring it in to the dealer for the rest - build some good-will with them since I am a big user of warranty work and I like my dealership. :-)

    Elissa
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    the nasty spark plug change. It might be worth a hundred bucks just for that.

    Otherwise, I can get the fluids/filters myself.

    John
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    I did the plugs on my wife's Forester, and it was not bad at all. Took more time than on an inline-4, but not challenging. It helped to use an air ratchet to remove and reinstall all the junk that's in the way of the plugs!

    Craig
  • mpgmanmpgman Member Posts: 723
    An earlier reply stated that Forester's side air bags protected the head and the chest so there was no real need for the side head curtains that are appearing on a lot of cars these days. I see where the 05 Legacy has the head curtains in addition to the side air bags. Assuming the Legacy's side air bags protect the head and the chest as well, Subaru must have thought they needed to offer the head curtains too. Marketing, additional safety or both? Why shouldn't Forester offer the same?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Well, you came up with a bad example, because the Forester absolutely CREAMS the Legacy in the IIHS side impact test.

    Both get 5 stars front and 5 stars rear from the NHTSA in the NCAP test, but the IIHS test for the Forester resulted in a Rating of Good, 2nd best in class, while the Legacy earned just a Marginal.

    Cheaper and safer is better if you ask me!

    -juice
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    it has to do more with the height of the passenger in the vehicle and the height of the vehicle, since both the new Outback and Forester performed better than the lower to the ground Legacy.

    Note, it is all relative, who knows what kind of vehicle they are going to get hit by? If it is a truck or a bus at 30+ mph, it doesn't really matter much what they put in the side of the car.

    John
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Plugs are not until 60K.

    -mike
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    Mike, not according to my '03 maintenance schedule for the XS. I wish it was true, I only have 5k left.

    John
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    On the XS it requires them at 30k? Interesting, most all the subies we've delt with since '98+ has either been 60K or 105K, haven't had to do any at 30K, but on a forester they aren't that hard I would imagine.

    -mike
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    On all the recent model cars with 2.5H4 it's 30K. The H6 in my LL Bean was 60K. I think the 2.5H4-turbo in the new Legacy/OB is 60K as well.

    Craig
  • mpgmanmpgman Member Posts: 723
    Locked in analysis paralysis. I'd like to hear from Forester owners who narrowed their choice down to Forester and Vibe and why they went with the Forester. I see Vibe pros as lower purchase price, more available safety features on the 05 (head curtain air bags/anti-skid system), factory leather availability in all models, significantly higher fuel mileage and Toyota build quality in a USA made car. I see Forester pros as top of the class rankings from respected sources, great crash results (possibly matched by Vibe/Matrix), more driver legroom and better overall seating, lumbar support for the driver, better overall visibility especially to the side and rear, more cargo room, and folding mirrors. Can't speak to resale differences or repair histories. Is Forester better?

    I can get a Vibe fwd auto with head curtains, anti-skid, leather and a few other goodies for $18k with all rebates. A Forester X with after market leather, trailer hitch, bike attachment, cargo nets, dimming mirror, etc., will run me $22,800.

    What did I miss? What do you think? Thanks.
  • suydamsuydam Member Posts: 5,084
    The main problem I would have with the Vibe is its cargo capacity -- according to Edmunds, 54 cu. ft. vs. 64 in the Forester. Having just taken a kid to college, we used every possible inch of the Forester, and I'm sure we couldn't have fit it all in anything smaller. And in such a case, how would the Vibe's smaller engine fare on the highway when loaded to the gills? But if that's not an issue for you the Vibe seems nice in all other respects, and I personally would rather own a Toyota- made vehicle for reliability. I just wish they had made it a little bigger and with a tad more oomph. On the other hand, the reason we didn't rent a van for the trip was to force our kid to pare down a bit, so I guess one could always pare down some more! But with the Forester that was a reasonable decision because you can fit a good amount into it.
    '24 Kia Sportage PHEV
    '24 Chevy Blazer EV 2LT
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    I would consider AWD and ground clearance to be huge factors in favor of the Forester, which make it considerably more capable in foul weather and offroad.

    I know you can get a Vibe/Matrix with AWD, but it's not a very advanced AWD system, and you still don't get ground clearance.

    Also as far as engines go, I think Toyota and Pontiac package the various combos differently. Regardless of which 1.8L engine you get -- the 123HP or the 173HP, I would expect the Forester's torquey 2.5L H4 engine to be a lot more powerful and useful for daily driving.

    The Vibe and the Forester drive a lot differently, so perhaps a test drive will decide for you.

    Craig
  • edunnettedunnett Member Posts: 553
    I think the difference in plug replacement periods is dependent on wether they put Platinum or Copper plugs in as OEM. Coppers need to be replaced more frequently - 30K. But Subaru puts Platinums in the bigger, faster engines and they need to be changed less frequently as the metal degrades more slowly I guess. However, removing a Platinum plug after 100K is not guaranteed to be easier than removing a copper one at 100K. That's a long time for hot metal to get ... comfortable where it is. :-)
  • edunnettedunnett Member Posts: 553
    I never looked at the Vibe but did consider and test drive the Toyota Matrix - all models. I found the 4wd whoefully lacking in power and it would scream getting on the highway. But I still liked it. Cute little versatile car for the money. When I test drove the 170 hp model I hated it. Hated the 6-sp transmission and didn't like the seating position (don't know why it didn't bother me in the other model?). In the end I like that for a few thousand more, I got a much more solid feeling car, with a fantastic warranty, good reliability and some extras that make me feel good - not to mention a virtual portable hotel room bed in the back of the car - otherwise known as "cargo area"! :-)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Plugs are sort of a pain. Remove the intake plumbing and the windshield washer fluid reservoir and you still need 2", 3", and 4" ratchet extensions since the clearance is so tight. You loosen the plug with a 4" extension, then you can't get it out!

    So you loosen it with a 4" extension, trade to a 3", then continue, etc.

    Forester has AWD and the cargo space is a lot roomier (an AWD Vibe has 123hp so that won't even get out of its own way).

    Forester has good torque and better utility, basically. You can carry more and in any weather.

    Vibe is more of a hatchback. It's a good choice is your 2nd car is something bigger, but IMO it's way too small to be your primary hauler.

    Also, the non-AWD models have a primitive torsion beam suspension that isn't even fully independent. Take both over a bumpy road and you'll feel the difference.

    Forester is 4 wheel indy and can go over those long speed bumps at 40mph without bottoming out. Vibe could probably take them at 25mph.

    -juice
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    I lean towards DIY and not trusting others with my plugs (we won't say cheap, but actually I am saving my subaru bucks for some other as yet unknown like the Baja Turbo '06 on the new Outback platform-hint hint SOA). Have you used wobble extensions, or angle drives? You mention "intake" how much of this needs to be removed?

    John
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Well, you replace the air filter anyway, and I find it's easier and more thorough to do it if you remove the intake.

    Of course the intake on my 1998 is different than on any other year Forester, so YMMV.

    I didn't have wobble extensions but I doubt they'd help much. Angle drive might help a tiny bit.

    Check the clearance there, you have like 2-3".

    Maybe one of those super-flat ratchets that are meant for tight clearances.

    -juice
  • edunnettedunnett Member Posts: 553
    ...I am saving my subaru bucks for some other as yet unknown like the Baja Turbo '06 on the new Outback platform-hint hint SOA). Have you used wobble extensions, or angle drives? You mention "intake" how much of this needs to be removed?

    1) I thought Subaru was discontinuing the Baja after MY 2005?

    2) Wobble extensions I think were unnecessary to remove my '01 Forester's plugs if I recall. And after cracking other plugs trying to remove them with those extensions, I'm no fan.

    3) Depends on the actual year how much of the intake needs to be removed... On my '01 I had to remove the easily-accessible parts of the intake - no biggie. I think that was all of two screws if that. What was more of the PITA was that I had to remove the battery completely AND had to have an assistant hold the windshield washer fluid reservoir out of my way since it couldn't be easily removed without spillage and electrical disconnects. When I was done I'm sure my knuckles were bleeding. I put platinums in though so I wouldn't have to go through THAT again for a while. Now I've got the turbo ... and to be honest, I can't find the plugs to save my life. They are buried beneath a whole lot of other plumbing and may not even have flexible wires leading to them. Ugh.
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Elissa, your description sounds exactly the same as when I changed the plugs on my wife's 03 Forester XS: take out intake, battery, and washer reservoir (I used a wire to hold it out of the way). It really helped to have my air ratchet to take off and replace all those screws and bolts -- made things go quicker.

    Craig
  • mpgmanmpgman Member Posts: 723
    Local dealer offered me a 4 year 48,000 mile lease on an 05 Forester X with automatic and no other add ons for $470 in fees, nothing else down and $249 a month plus tax. Alternatively, he will sell me an 05 the same way for $19,900 or a leftover 04 for $16,900. What are the differences between the 04 and the 05? Tranny improvements? Any safety items like side air bags? Anything worth getting the 05 other than resale? When I asked about leather and some options such as cargo nets, hitch, bike attachment, splash guard, etc., he said I could write a check for dealer cost to keep the lease price where it was. What do you think?
  • jtm4jtm4 Member Posts: 60
    My '98 Forester uses the Platinum plugs and they cost quite a bit more than the copper. I noticed on my 60k service receipt that my dealer had only charged me a little over four dollars per plug. I asked and he acknowledged the mistake. He gave me a set of platinum plugs, at no charge, to put in at 90k. I haven't been looking forward to it but will give it a shot. By the way, I noticed this at 85k when I was getting ready for 90k maintenance.

    Juice, something I've run in to. My Forester was built in early '98. There was a design change around July '98. When you need to get parts for maintenance it's somewhat of a headache. From what I've been told, the late '98 Foresters went to the 30k copper plugs. I had a similar problem when I had to buy the upper radiator hose...two different hoses for the same year.

    Jim
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    I thought $22.8k was pretty high for an X so I'm glad to hear you have it down to $19.9k (leather, mirror, hitch and nets don't cost $3k). I'm not a fan of leasing so I can't speak to whether that's a good deal or not but $19.9k is a great one for an 05. However, $16.9k for a new 04 is an even better deal if you plan to keep it for several years. Especially since I don't know of any substantial changes for 05 that affected the X model so you won't be giving up anything.

    -Frank
  • bkaiser1bkaiser1 Member Posts: 464
    It depends on the residual as to whether thats an ok deal -- $250/mo for 4 years is $12k, so if the residuals low enough that might be an okay deal. Still, the 04 for $16.9k is a much better deal in the long run, regardless of what the residual may be on the lease. There weren't any major changes for 05, just some detail improvements. Of course, the 04 already has a year of depreciation built in, and the 05 doesn't...but I'd still go with that 04.

    Brian
  • catherine9catherine9 Member Posts: 31
    Can someone tell me which (if any) models come with side head-protecting airbags? And do any of the models come with traction control? I was soooo disappointed when I saw the side test results for the Legacy. I'm trying to find a car that's both reliable and safe and not a Camry.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Catherine

    All Forester have side airbags, as do the Legacy and Outback. The Forester has earned top marks in crash testing.

    The Outback just earned top marks for the side & front crashes. SOA published the results on their site below:

    http://www.subaru.com/index.jsp

    The Legacy side crash ratings are a mystery, as they have the same side protection as does the Outback. The only difference is the ground clearance, which could affect as how the crash sleds hit the door, thus giving different results.

    All Subarus have AWD, which is far better than 2WD with traction control.

    Bob
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Catherine- To elaborate on what Bob said, all 05 Forester models come standard with side-impact air bags that protect both the head and chest. it also has the best safety scores of any small SUV. However, traction control isn't currently offered with the Forester.

    FYI the new Toyota RAV4 also scores well in the safety arena and comes with standard traction control and offers optional side head-protection airbags. So although I prefer the Forester, the RAV4 might be worth looking at.

    -Frank
  • catherine9catherine9 Member Posts: 31
    Thanks for the responses. So I guess these airbags are a version of curtain airbags. Do they protect the rear-seat passengers as well? I wonder if Subaru could reinstall the airbags in the Legacy to work more effectively or if the problem lies with the structual integrity of the car.
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    No the Forester's side airbags only protect the front seat passengers. That's because they are seat-mounted but inflate in such a way as to provide head protection also.

    -Frank
  • catherine9catherine9 Member Posts: 31
    Edmunds says that the 2005 base model was enhanced with an electronic throttle control. Can anyone tell me the value of this feature?
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Not offhand. Sorry. Maybe someone else here can?

    Bob
  • mpgmanmpgman Member Posts: 723
    Just looked at the Edmund's review and another source. Apparently there were some improvements made to the automatic tranny or it is a new transmission period. Air filtration is now standard for the A/C in all trim levels. Other than the gold color seeming to be less yellow in 05, is anyone aware of anything else and do the transmission and throttle body changes have any impact on fuel economy?

    Thanks.
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Apparently it improves gas mileage (look at the ratings, the 05 is rated for higher mpg).

    What it does -- if you step on the gas pedal the throttle will only use what it needs to accelerate rather than going wide open and wasting some gas. So the engine only burns as much gas as it could possibly use to get going, instead of making excess heat/noise/etc... that you'd get by flooring it without throttle control. In other words, the throttle control won't let you waste gas -- it only throttles to as much as the engine can efficiently use. Real good idea.

    Craig
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    mpgman: I'd save $3000 and buy the '04. The 05 gets slightly better gas mileage and resale will be better but you will never, ever, recoup a whopping $3 grand in savings.

    The '05 with a manual tranny does get a remarkable 23/30 mpg. But that'll save you hundreds, not thousands, over its lifetime in your garage.

    Jim: I believe I have the revised '98 model, mine was built in April 1998.

    catherine: all Foresters since model year 2003 have had side airbags that protect both the head and the torso.

    Makes shopping for you easy - any 2003 or later gets a Good rating from IIHS and 5 stars front plus 5 stars rear from NHTSA in side impacts.

    While we're at it, Best Pick IIHS frontal offset and 5 stars front passenger and 5 stars drive on the NHTSA front crash test.

    -juice
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