Subaru Forester (up to 2005)

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Comments

  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Jim- I wouldn't be too concerned about piston-slap. IRT the extended warranty, while they're not my cup of tea, it's not too late to get one. You can purchase a Subaru Gold warranty any time during the original factory warranty period.

     

    -Frnak
  • jopopsyjopopsy Member Posts: 65
    Hey Gang:

     

    Is there any way to get the climate control system to simply pump in the ambient outside air? Here is what's happening: Its about 38 degrees here in Jersey ATM. When I put the temp dial all the way down to 65, I had assumed that meant 'cold'. What I guess is happening is the car compares the 65 w/ the inside and outside temperatures and dishes out a warm mixture; I assume this is so the inside cabin can get to 65.

     

    I assume the only way to actually get the ambient fresh air into the cabin is to open the windows or roof?

     

    Before you ask I was driving in today w/ a thick wool jacket on and I was kinda toasty ...

     

    Jopopsy
  • joseph50joseph50 Member Posts: 235
    I just passed 50K on my 2001 Forester S.

    I have had no problems so far, and plan to keep the car for years to come.

    Would you recommend purchasing an extended warranty package for it? Do different dealers offer different prices?

    Thanks.
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    Wouldn't directing the air out of the vents at face leven and not having the a/c on fix that problem?

     

    -Dennis
  • dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    I just passed 50K on my 2001 Forester S.

     

    Would you recommend purchasing an extended warranty package for it?


     

    It's too late to get the Subaru Added Security new car warranty. You must purchase the warranty before the 3 yr / 36,000 mi. warranty expires.

     

    You can get used car warranties, but they are expensive.

     

    DaveM
  • samiam_68samiam_68 Member Posts: 775
    I'm assuming you have a Forester XS or XT? Here's more info on Subaru's infamous climate control:

     

    http://www.geocities.com/samiam_68/SubaruCCS/SSC_Fix.htm
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    I can't remember how our 03 Forester operated, but my old 02 Outback and my new 05 Outback both treat "65" as no heat, which allows an ambient vent mode.

     

    For a vent, I dial temp to 65, press off, then select bi-level (face and floor). From there, you can turn the fan on if you want more flow. All the while, the incoming air will be unheated (it may pick up some engine heat from flowing over the hood into the ventilation intake near the wipers, but that's all).

     

    Anybody else with a newer Forester know if "65" has this same meaning on the Forester? I'm pretty sure it did on our 03 XS...

     

    Craig
  • almost buyingalmost buying Member Posts: 4
    Hi there folks,

     

    Thanks C_Hunter & tap3 for the inputs on my previous post.

     

    Here is the whole story:

     

    I am in the market to buy a Subaru Forester XT AWD 4dr Wagon w/Premium Package (2.5L 4cyl Turbo 4A).

     

    I've requested some quotes through Edmunds and got back a few responses. The one I am more inclined to pursue is as follows:

     

    Forester XT Premium $24,959 (base price)

     

    -->> Dealer Processing Fee $185 (I'm sure I can negotiate this)

     

    -->> Tag Fees $160 ($72 is for new DC tags, $26 for the title fee, $20 if there is a lien on your Forester, $17 for the VA temporary tag , $10 for DC New Car Inspection Fee , and $15 for a Zone Parking Fee if you need one.) -- what do I really need from this bunch ?

     

    -->> DC Sales Tax 6%, or $1,497.54 (I can get them to lower this because they are selling out from Virginia which charges 3.17% on sales taxes)

     

    -->> Local Gross Receipts License Tax (1/6th of 1%) $42.12 (what the h** is this???)

     

    ** Total out the door price: $ 26,843.66 **

     

    Just wanted to make sure I am getting a reasonable price or if I am being taken for a ride...

     

    Any feedback would be greatly appreciated...

    Thanks.
  • samiam_68samiam_68 Member Posts: 775
    Forester "65" is heat off as far as I know, but in cold weather it won't blow 33 degree air, so there must be some warm air mixed in.
  • mpgmanmpgman Member Posts: 723
    Paid $19,800 delivered plus tax and tags for an automatic X with the following:

     

    after market leather

    splash guards

    arm rest extension

    full set of nets side and back

    cargo tray liner

     

    This included the rebate. As to the warranty deductible, it seems to me you need 4 separate claims to make up the difference in price between the 0 and the $100 deductible. That is something of a gamble, isn't it?
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    According to Edmunds the XT/Auto Premium costs $28,770 MSRP and $26,539 invoice. Take off $1600 from invoice for the current rebate on the XT, and you get $24939. I'd say the $24,959 price seems pretty good!

     

    CRaig
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Check over in Subaru Forester: Prices Paid & Buying Experience for other recent deals people have made. That board looks like it could use some more year-end posts so if you're lurking and have a new Forester, please tell.

     

    Steve, Host
  • mel8mel8 Member Posts: 1
    Hi, I've been thinking about buying an '05 XS, but wondering if I should wait for the '06 models to see if they have side curtain airbags, better upholstery, and no more monotone paint!

     

    I just came across this on the web and am wondering if it's true--if so should I snatch an '05 now? Does anyone know more about what a Forester replacement (if this is true) would look like? Lastly, if a regular '06 model is planned, any idea what changes it would hold? Thanks!

     

    Subaru:

    OOX (Forester replacement) 2006 model, mid-2005 debut

    Status: Confirmed

    The popular Subaru Forester car-based SUV will be replaced by an as-yet-unnamed vehicle for 2006. Saab will likely get a version. The name could be Tribeca or XUV, and the platform is also going to be used for the next Buick Rendezvous.

     

    http://automobiles.allinfoabout.com/news/whatsnext.html
  • mckeownmckeown Member Posts: 165
    The New Subaru is named the B9X, due to be shown at the Detroit Auto show next month. It is a 7 passenger SUV. Not listed as a Forester replacement, but an additional vehicle to the Subaru lineup.

    Uses the 6 cylinder, Automatic only, upscale with a starting price of 33-35K. Looks like a Nisson Murano to me. In 2007 Saab is supposed to get a one added to their lineup.

    Maybe Steve (HOST) can point you to an Edmunds board with a discussion, but there are other sites who have had pictures and Specs now for a few months.
  • dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    The New Subaru is named the B9X, due to be shown at the Detroit Auto show next month.

     

    It is currently called B9 Tribeca and will debut at the North American International Auto Show (Detroit) on January 10.

     

    Edmunds discussion: rsholland, "Subaru B9 Tribeca (B9X)" #1, 5 Nov 2004 4:06 pm

     

    DaveM
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Sounds like that other info was mixed up or outdated. The Forester was new for 03, and we will likely see the "new" model as an 08 (introduced in mid 2007). As others have mentioned, the B9 Tribeca is an entirely different vehicle.

     

    Two-tone paint was standard for 03 and 04 on the XS, and you had to get the premium package for monotone paint. This year, I think monotone is standard and the LL Bean gets two-tone.

     

    Since the 05 has gotten numerous interior updates, I would not expect many changes in 06.

     

    Finally, the Forester's current side airbags offer head protection, so the lack of curtains is not as big an issue as it would seem (though full curtains would be an improvement).

     

    Craig
  • dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    Since the 05 has gotten numerous interior updates, I would not expect many changes in 06.

     

    I would expect to see a facelift for the Forester in MY06. Subaru typically does this in year 4 of the 5 year cycle.

     

    In the past, Subaru has added mechanical and interior changes in year 3.

     

    DaveM
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    anyone ever bother changing the fluid? It is not a maintenance item in the owner's manual.

     

    John
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I missed a lot!

     

    Congrats to new owners like mpgman, jopopsy, and agateroad.

     

    Piston slap at 40% incidence is comical. He's gotta be kidding!

     

    "They all do that" is a lame excuse from a lazy mechanic or service manager.

     

    I have regular speakers and when Ken upgraded to aftermarket ones he gave me his premium sound speakers.

     

    Well, the rears were still dual cones! Not even 2-ways. The fronts are 2 ways, replacing the stock dual cones. Wattages are higher.

     

    Go aftermarket, you can get 2-way or even 3-way speakers for those prices. Stock tweeters are good, though.

     

    -juice
  • joseph50joseph50 Member Posts: 235
    In most of our books here, you are entitled to miss some here or there.

    Happy New Year!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It was nice to get back in the Forester. In Brazil cars are much, much smaller, and something like the Forester would be considered a premium midsize SUV.

     

    The only domestic SUV in Brazil is the Ford EcoSport. If you thought the Escape was compact, you have no idea - EcoSport is diminuitive. It comes only with a 1.6l engine and AWD is an option, though most come with FWD.

     

    So that is considered small, Escape would be mid-size and Explorer, large. They don't sell anything bigger to the consumer market.

     

    Any how, it feels positively luxurious to get into my Forester after driving around in a Fiat Palio mini-compact all that time.

     

    -juice
  • almost buyingalmost buying Member Posts: 4
    Hi there,

     

    I am almost closing the deal on a 2005 Forester XT Premium Package. The dealer quoted me the following add-ons:

     

    Lojack starts at $695 and the Subaru Upgraded Alarm* is $256 (all before tax)

     

    What do you all think about it...

     

    Hey Texeira I'm from Brazil too man (Natal/RN) !

     

    * I am going to search the forum for an explanation of the so called "upgraded alarm" but any clarifications would be appreciated...

     

    Thank you all.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    None of my cars have alarms, so I can't offer advice, sorry!

     

    Hey, Natal is awesome. I haven't been there in a long time, but Ponta Negra is the coolest dune to climb up and them tumble down. Very cool city.

     

    -juice
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Lojack is nice but depending on where you live, it might be overkill. That’s because while we might think that the Subaru Forester is the perfect vehicle... it's not exactly high on any potential thief's list ;-)

     

    -Frank
  • almost buyingalmost buying Member Posts: 4
    Thanks Texeira/Frank...

     

    I live in DC and will definitely need an alarm, but maybe a lojack WILL BE an overkill as well pointed out by Frank.

     

    Any advices on the dealer's offer to upgrade the alarm ($256)...

     

    BTW when it comes to car I know nothing, so buying and installing would not be an option...
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    My Forester has LoJack with Early Warning, and it's definitely not overkill for me!! I would actually recommend a third layer of protection.

     

    -Dennis

    victim of WRX wagon theft in '03
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    If the upgrade is other than an immobilizer and just the ability to "passive" arm...

    Forget About It!

     

    The "Upgraded" alarm I had gotten for my '03 WRX is just the vanilla OEM alarm with a half-cooked passive arming.

    To passive arm, first get out of car. Then manually lock the doors [not using remote] and shut the door... DUH!? What a waste of my $200+ >:| Take that money and put it into an aftermarket or just save it and stick with the standard alarm.

     

    Lojack @ $695 is only the basic recovery system and nothing else. Alarm and Advance Alert are additional.
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    I don't see it anywhere in the '03 owners manual. The new OEM NGK plugs had about a .042" (my largest plug gap gauge is .040) and the Champions that came with the car were at least .050" after 30K.

     

    Changing plugs was easy on the '03, a standard 5/8" spark plug socket, 3/8" swivel, and 3" extension did the trick. Nothing need to be unbolted on the passenger side, the driver's side required 2 bolts on the windshield fluid container and a coat hanger to hoist up 6". The whole job took less than 1 hour.

     

    Fuel filter change was easy too, it is right out in the open and no pressure was in the lines. But, the OEM Subaru filter is not black epoxy coated like the orginal and it doesn't look nearly as dressy.

     

    John
  • edunnettedunnett Member Posts: 553
    A coathangar to keep the fluid out of your way! What a great idea! I just used my husband!

    I found that the longer you leave plugs in the engine the larger the gap becomes. So if you put them in at .042, they may come out quite more gapped than that - NGK actually has a formula for this on their site if I remember correctly. Interestingly enough I have three separate types of spark plug gapping tools - none of them ever read the same gap on a plug! When a manufacturer claims the gap should be .043 and it's anyone's guess which gap measurement to use and the plugs coming out are .054 - then what does it REALLY matter? ;-)

    elissa
  • y2k_forestery2k_forester Member Posts: 1
    Hi,

     

    I bought a Crystal Gray '05 XS auto a week ago (just slipping in at the end of the "Year End Drive" (and I think the end of the owner loyalty rebates?), trading my '00 S 5 sp. I'm very happy with the new car, just getting used to not having my left foot move for the clutch!!!

     

    I shopped the CR-V again, like I did in '00, but bought a Subaru again. My '00 wasn't perfect, but it felt like a favorite pair of sneakers, and the '05 has a familiar but even better feeling, along with some of the old quirks as well.

     

    Now I'm going to add the accessories that I had with the '00 that I want with the '05. I liked the fact that the S had mudflaps and the rear bumper "cover" (protection) as standard equipment, so I'm going to add those. I am also missing the extra storage of the armrest extension. After that, but later in the spring, I'll add the hitch for the utility trailer, and I think the tweeter kit based on good reviews.

     

    My question is on the flaps. The S had "matte black" (fading to gray) flaps, but now they offer body color matching flaps. How does the paint hold up on the painted flaps? Anyone try the "black" unpainted flaps with an XS? I was noticing the flaps on our 2000 Honda Ody as I left for work today, and they are unpainted black and seem to "work well" with the Canyon Stone Silver Ody.

     

    Any thoughts or comments graciously accepted.

     

    -Joe
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I know what you mean, I'd prefer unpainted also. The whole point is that they get filthy.

     

    -juice
  • leo2633leo2633 Member Posts: 589
    I'm glad to see that the mud flaps on my 2001 Forester S aren't the only ones that have faded from black to gray. I was thinking of spray painting them black again. I also agree that the black looks better than the painted ones.

     

    Len
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    well, it is an interesting question. With the old standard coils we didn't get enough voltage to run high gaps (.04" +). The new electronic ignitions run hotter and the spark can cross a larger gap (which makes for better fuel ignition and burn efficiency). The spark is going to jump across the path of least resistance, which ordinarily will be the closest contact point. So, any resistance while inserting a round .040" gap tool should be a .04" gap.

     

    John
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    My wife had the painted flaps on her 03 XS (silver) and they were pretty durable in the 2.5 years we owned the car. The painted flaps on the 05 Outbacks seem pretty good too. However, I would get the basic black unpainted ones myself if they were available. Some part of me likes to have unpainted parts down low. One of the reasons I got the gold paint on my 05 Outback -- all the lower skirts and the flaps are unpainted black plastic. One less area to worry about scratches/etc..

     

    I envy you on the color -- I really like the crystal gray. If they offer that on the Outback at some point, I would start itching for a trade-in!

     

    Craig
  • 4mygrey4mygrey Member Posts: 26
    I have an 05 XT PP and went with the upgrade. If by "upgraded alarm" you actually mean "upgraded security system" this is probably the upgrade from the standard engine immobilizer to the alarm, which doesn't come standard. My understanding is that there's only one level of alarm system (but it can be wired to arm through the remote or passively...I agree that I wouldn't call that an upgrade). I paid $444 for alarm, bumper cover and splash guards and I think you are doing better than that. The immobiliizer will already stop someone from driving off with the car, but I got it more for scaring away people who want my "stuff"... I shop and travel a lot and sometimes the cargo cover doesn't cut it. That said, here are my thoughts on it...we were concerned that it would be annoying...like you brush past the car and it goes off...not at all, so that's good. But...we beat on the poor forester pretty heavily and couldn't get the warning mode (a few honks...rather than a few minutes) to go off like we wish it would have. I think someone really needs to break a window, or at least take a hammer to one, before this thing will start up.
  • patricemqpatricemq Member Posts: 7
    Im having the same problem with My 05 honda pilot what was your outcome did the noise go away? how did they fix it? thanks
  • eps105eps105 Member Posts: 216
    I finally got the tires I wanted on my '03 Forester XS a month or so again, but I was waiting to post my experiences until after I tried them in the snow. Well, we got about 1-2 inches of snow here in Philadelphia yesterday, and the commute home was a perfect test, so here's my review....

     

    I never really liked the Yokos that came with my Forester, they were OK, but nothing great. My biggest gripe was that they ALWAYS squealed when making tight turns (at the wheel end-stop) or even driving around corners at moderate speeds. Dealer swore the car was in alignment and said that grippier tires tend to squeal because they are holding the road better. I figured that was just an excuse since they're rated 'B' for traction!

     

    So anyway, I went along with Consumer Reports' finding that the Falken Ziex ZE-512 were the top-rated all-season sport-performance tires. They were high-rated for all categories, including wet and dry braking, hydroplaning, and noise and comfort. And they cost 50% less than the #2 rated Bridgestone Turanzas.

     

    By the way, I had about 32,000 miles on my Yokos, and I probably could have gotten another 5,000 or so, but Consumer Reports did a study and found that tires with even 1/2 their tread loose tons of grip in the rain and snow, so my policy is to replace my tires prior to the winter where they're well past 1/2 tread, even if they're not near the low tread indicator. They were also starting to wear a bit unevenly, too, despite my attention to keeping the pressure just right.

     

    I paid about $80 per tire, out the door. I also got (and HIGHLY recommend) a 4 wheel alignment from a very reputable shop. Turns out, some of the wheels were a little out of the alignment spec., which MAY have accounted for my squealing problems, so I can't definitively fault the Yokohamas.

     

    When I first got the Falkens, they seemed a bit firmer and noisier than expected, only for me to realize the shop pumped them to about 35 pounds. Taking them down to 29 helped a LOT. The noise got better after an initial wear-in of a few hundred miles. (Must be those little nubs!)

     

    I can now say how much I LOVE these tires -- they are noticably quieter than the OEMs. Not "tons" quieter, but still quite noticable. The greatest improvement is when driving from asphalt to concrete on the highway -- the concrete no longer transmits that droning whine. I can't tell the difference driving on either surface. These tires are easily as quiet as the supreme ride in my wife's old '99 Passat with Michelin MXV4 Plus tires, which cost double of the Falkens.

     

    The ride and handling is simply unbelievable, and I feel like my Forester handles BETTER than new -- it's like having a new car all over again. I feel like I am going to roll my Forester before it starts losing traction around a corner. No sensation of the tail coming out or anything.

     

    Yesterday in the snow, I really tested them out. Pressed the gas hard on snow-covered roads and really felt that AWD working -- you can feel the tires slip for about a 1/2 second and the AWD adjusts the traction to the best wheels and suddenly you just lunge forward. I'm sure it's not as good as putting snow tires on a Subie, but as good as I would expect for all-seasons.

     

    So after driving on them for almost 2 months, I would give these tires a perfect 10. There's pretty much no compromises -- great price, great traction, and quiet ride. Highly recommended!

     

    You may not see Falkens advertised by major tire stores, but I found when calling around that almost every independent tire dealer can get them from their distributor. And they also sell them regionally at Sears Automotive stores here in the Philly area as well.

     

    Oh, one last thing -- they don't have raised white letters. It gives it a cleaner look and matches the newer Foresters -- '05's have all-black tires, in case you didn't notice.

     

    Sorry for the long post, but people always seem to be asking about tire recommendations, so I thought I'd share my experience.

     

    Happy driving!

     

    Elliot
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
    my wife rides the rims pretty good in the hills here so the OEMs on the fxt '04 will be gone before 20k. figure at that time i will do those handling mods that others have mentioned along with a new set of thread.
  • dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    Well, we got about 1-2 inches of snow here in Philadelphia yesterday

     

    IF the weather forecast is right (:lol:), you'll get to try them in 6 to 8 inches this weekend.

     

    DaveM
  • eps105eps105 Member Posts: 216
    njswmplands: The Falkens would be perfect for the FXT, being that they're sport-performance tires. If I got an XT, I'd put the Falkens on right away and sell the OEM tires. (Anyone know what the OEM's are on the '05 FXT? Are they different that the NA models?)

     

    Dave M: 6-8 inches? Last I heard it was 6-12 and they said it would start like a wall of snow.... I can't wait! BRING IT ON!!

     

    Elliot
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    If I got an XT, I'd put the Falkens on right away and sell the OEM tires. (Anyone know what the OEM's are on the '05 FXT? Are they different that the NA models?)

     

    The OEMs on the '05 XT are the same Geolandar 900s that are on the NA models. I swapped mine for a set of Dunlop SP5000s before the car ever left the dealer's lot.

     

    Ed
  • dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    Accumulation depends on 1) who you believe, 2) your location, 3) storm track. Therefore, YMMV.

     

    DaveM
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I put a set of those Falkens on my Miata. Huge improvement over the previous Bridgestones in lateral grip, and especially wet grip. It no longer feels "scary" in the rain.

     

    Snow grip is only OK, but that's because it's a Miata (light, RWD).

     

    I'll put a set on the Forester next time, also.

     

    -juice
  • joseph50joseph50 Member Posts: 235
    Thanks for the review.

    I have much the same impression of the Goodrich Traction T/A H's on my 2001S. (4,000 miles on them)

    What issue of CR contained the tire reports?

    How did the T/A's compare with the Falkens?
  • eps105eps105 Member Posts: 216
    The last review in Consumer Reports for Performance All-Season tires was the November, 2003 issue, page 50.

     

    Unfortunately, the Traction T/A's were not reviewed. (I'm not sure they're considered "performance" all-seasons, so they weren't included. There's really a very fuzzy line between regular all-season, touring performance all-season, and sport performance all-season tires; mostly marketing IMHO)

     

    Funny thing, in the Sears stores, the tires are rated "good", "better", and "best", with the Falkens merely listed as good. A quick glance shows that the ratings are suspiciously tied directly to price!! Nice try, Sears.

     

    Elliot
  • dnestrdnestr Member Posts: 188
    Permanent using of refreshment cosmetics is worth trying for making em black again. Just avoid to spray too much ;)
  • joseph50joseph50 Member Posts: 235
    Another excellent entry, Elliot.

     

    FYI, Tirerack lists the T/A as "High Performance All Season" but, as you said, categories are indeed "fuzzy."
  • gmginsfogmginsfo Member Posts: 116
    Better speakers were the second change I made to my '03 XS; detaching the roof rack crossbars was the first, before I even drove it off the lot. I bought a pair of 6" and 4" Polks for the front and rear doors, respectively, and the tweeter plug-ins for where the "wing windows" might otherwise be, the former from Frye's, the latter from an AMD, which came prewired and were easy to snap in myself. I also had the installer use an RCA-plug wiring harness to hook the receiver to the 4 main speakers, since this conserves the signal and minimizes interference. No need for an amp, there's plenty of power in the stock radio/CD/cassette, whether its classical or rock I'm listening to. Together, I've got a great sounding system.

     

    I've a question re: braking technique. Is it better to apply steady pressure over a shorter distance, or carefully pump the brakes over a longer distance when coming to a stop? I'm big into coasting - certainly not in neutral, mind you - but by laying off the accelerator once I see slowing ahead in order to save gas. Any advice?
  • jackleungjackleung Member Posts: 79
    For detail, read this edmunds thread:

    jackleung, "Subaru Crew: Problems & Solutions" #4598, 22 Jan 2005 3:37 am

     

    My previous message was banned by Edmunds as they said my message violated their policy. I hopes this one is ok. My intention is just to helps other Subaru owner aware they may have the same issue w/ me, and discover it before warrenty is expired....
  • mpgmanmpgman Member Posts: 723
    Recently got a new X. Really like it but interesting when compared to my Hyundai Elantra GT hatch. The Hyundai has much more cargo room in the rear hatch area. Also has more driver and passenger leg room and a more substantial driver's foot rest. The Subie's center console has no open trays to set something down in like a phone. The Subie's cup holders are too shallow. Slimmer bottles are a problem. Some other thoughts:

     

    1. No ignition ring light on the X like on the Hyundai?

    2. Unless you keep the seat all the way back the center arm rest, even with the extension, winds up behind you? Bad design. The Elantra's holds as much and is better even with the emergency brake being there.

    3. Rack the seat height up and you hit your head on the roof line assist grip. Should be the collapsible type.

    4. How are the power door locks supposed to work? 2 clicks close together to open all the doors? Somewhat annoying.

    5. For an outdoorsy kind of car, the carpet rises too close to the door sill. Better to have a plastic molding there that won't get so dirty. Either that or use darker colored carpeting.

     

    All that aside I really enjoy the car.
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