Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Is Honda America in trouble?
Doing some research on CR-V sales figures, I was kind of wondering why Honda was taking so long to post their monthly press release. Common practice in the industry is for it to go out the first weekday following the end of a month, sometimes sooner if the last day is a Sunday (usually doesn't count as a "sales day"). It was a couple days late last month, presumably for a good reason -- they had to double check all the red ink and spin doctor the press release's negative sales numbers.
American Honda Reports Record September Truck Sales
Total September Honda and Acura light truck sales increased 7.3 percent* over last year to 49,114 units and broke the previous September record of 44,271 set in 2004, American Honda Motor Co., Inc. announced today. American Honda sales continued on a record-setting pace of 1,160,510 cars and light trucks, increasing 3.8 percent over last year on a daily selling rate basis, putting the company on target for a 13th straight year of sales increases.
Yet another month passes and once again, Honda's sales figures are slumping badly. The only vehicles propping up a vast sea of negative numbers was the Civic Hybrid, a miniscule rise for the MDX, and massive sales for a freshly minted 2007 CR-V. The figures on the CR-V are absolutely astounding and quite shocking when you notice that they're within a thousand or three of unseating the Civic and Accord as the best selling vehicle in the Honda stable!
American Honda October Sales Increase 3.7 Percent; All-New CR-V Sets All-Time Sales Record
Honda's light trucks continue to shine with another record month of sales
TORRANCE, Calif., Nov. 1 /PRNewswire/ -- Honda and Acura total vehicle sales of 110,624 for October increased 3.7 percent over last year on a daily selling rate basis, American Honda Motor Co., Inc., announced today.
American Honda light truck sales of 52,789 led the increase with a 15.6 percent gain that broke the previous October record of 49,193 set in 2004.
I sort of counted the Fit and the RDX -- though they didn't exist a year ago, they did boost Honda's October total by 4,500 units. A positive number is a positive number, right?
So... The newest Civic is only a year old, the Accord, last refreshed in 2003, isn't due to be replaced until 2008 (and the hybrid version is tanking in sales compared to the Camry) -- and as far as I know, there's nothing due to be replaced in their lineup for a couple years or more.
Hardly a "death knell", since Honda is still moving over a million vehicles into the US buyers' hands annually. But, is this symptomatic of a bigger problem just manifesting itself? Is Honda in real trouble here, or are they just suffering the auto industry's (except for Toyota) current sales slump with everyone else?
:confuse:
American Honda Reports Record September Truck Sales
Total September Honda and Acura light truck sales increased 7.3 percent* over last year to 49,114 units and broke the previous September record of 44,271 set in 2004, American Honda Motor Co., Inc. announced today. American Honda sales continued on a record-setting pace of 1,160,510 cars and light trucks, increasing 3.8 percent over last year on a daily selling rate basis, putting the company on target for a 13th straight year of sales increases.
Yet another month passes and once again, Honda's sales figures are slumping badly. The only vehicles propping up a vast sea of negative numbers was the Civic Hybrid, a miniscule rise for the MDX, and massive sales for a freshly minted 2007 CR-V. The figures on the CR-V are absolutely astounding and quite shocking when you notice that they're within a thousand or three of unseating the Civic and Accord as the best selling vehicle in the Honda stable!
American Honda October Sales Increase 3.7 Percent; All-New CR-V Sets All-Time Sales Record
Honda's light trucks continue to shine with another record month of sales
TORRANCE, Calif., Nov. 1 /PRNewswire/ -- Honda and Acura total vehicle sales of 110,624 for October increased 3.7 percent over last year on a daily selling rate basis, American Honda Motor Co., Inc., announced today.
American Honda light truck sales of 52,789 led the increase with a 15.6 percent gain that broke the previous October record of 49,193 set in 2004.
I sort of counted the Fit and the RDX -- though they didn't exist a year ago, they did boost Honda's October total by 4,500 units. A positive number is a positive number, right?
So... The newest Civic is only a year old, the Accord, last refreshed in 2003, isn't due to be replaced until 2008 (and the hybrid version is tanking in sales compared to the Camry) -- and as far as I know, there's nothing due to be replaced in their lineup for a couple years or more.
Hardly a "death knell", since Honda is still moving over a million vehicles into the US buyers' hands annually. But, is this symptomatic of a bigger problem just manifesting itself? Is Honda in real trouble here, or are they just suffering the auto industry's (except for Toyota) current sales slump with everyone else?
:confuse:
Tagged:
0
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
The major reason for the slump as I see it is the aging Accord. A new one should be due out very, very soon. The new Camry is just regarded as a better car than the outgoing Accord.
The Accord was refreshed for 2006 by the way, but its age is beginning to show.
M
In numeric terms, Honda has posted the second highest sales gains of all the automakers (Toyota had the lead) this year, while Big 3 sales are down 8.6%. I don't see a problem here.
Ward's Automotive
I don't think they're in trouble--they're selling every Civic and Fit they can build, they've got a new Accord and Pilot coming in 2008, have a new CR-V available right now, and their minivan is the best on the market. The Ridgeline may be an acquired taste, but it's very practical.
The Japanese makers often make minor design tweaks on popular models at about the midpoint of a product life cycle. That's not a sign of problems, it's just a way that they freshen up the product's look in order to sell more units.
Waste of space to have a second forum for the same thing.
With the bulk of their sales coming from 4-cylinder equipped locomotion (and the decision to keep around the past-its-prime fuel-sipping Insight) along with the lack of a true fuel "guzzling" powertrain, they're bound to routinely secure the title again.
One more thing: whats up with Honda styling? WHy does the current CR-V look so bland? I thought Honda would do a major re-vamp on the styling but they didn;t. The Civic Coupe was a huge re-do for 06 over the 05 model. The 07 MDX looks overstyled on the front to me. The RDX looks alright except for the plastic grille. I was at the auto show today so I did see all the cars.
I do know that Honda had some excellent timing for the launch of the 2006 Civic last year (Hurricane Katrina caused $3.39 a gallon in my area right as the 40 MPG EPA rated Civic was launching) and the launch of the Fit.
Acura has the new MDX and RDX (don't know how well those are selling) and the TL just went through a refresh.
I'd say the 2008 Accord will fix the majority of any "problems" that Honda may have right now.
And I'm pretty sure GM and Ford are absolutely dying to have Honda's set of problems (lack of supply versus demand on the Civic and Fit) instead of theirs (labor unions, legacy costs, slumping sales, etc)
Ummm, a few months ago, when gas was 3+ per gallon, and the Fit first came out, they were selling 6,000 units+ per month, now(look at the Honda thread....)they are selling under 3000(every month, past few months) . they are barely outselling Accent, Rio or even the new Aveo!
I think the Yaris, on the other hand , is still selling 6000+ units per month..
Is it due to Honda can't keep up with demand, or are there sooo many other choices.... sales went down? I dunno.
I know Hyundai/Kia also said they cna't keep up with sales of their 4 cylinders, thus sales are down.
Toyota is irksome, but Honda charges even more $$$ type of vehicle vs type of vehicle.
I know, I priced soeme out, and was surprised.
Anyhow.. on with the debate.
And Honda had such trouble meeting demand on the new Civic they were forced to choose between it and Fit. So, of course, the more profitable won out, which is why first-year sales are now not expected to top 40,000, despite Honda wanting to sell more. It was either that or sell Chinese-built Fits in the States, and Honda didn't want to be in the awkward PR position of defending that choice.
If they ever take the Fit seriously and build more, maybe offer a slightly more loaded model as well, or one with real sport suspension rather than just bigger rims and a bunch of cosmetics, I could be first in line for gen II in about two years! :-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I'm looking forward to seeing the dedicated Hybrid model Honda says they'll have by 2009...
All these new SUVs, no NSX or any other dedicated sport coupe, where is Acura headed these days? It's becoming, in the words of the mighty rockylee, a gadgetology-fest. At least SH-AWD is spreading through the line, about the only silver lining I see since they cancelled my favorite Acura ever, the Integra.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
PS
I liked the looks of the Integra line also.
Due in part to the booming market for the kei or mini car, Suzuki has overtaken Honda for third place behind Toyota and Nissan in the race for Japanese domestic car and light commercial vehicle sales. For the period between January and October 2006, Suzuki outsold Honda by a margin of nearly 7000 units.
It seems that even as the Japanese economy recovers, the Japanese consumer sentiment has shifted. They feel cars are now a commodity and are more reluctant to pay the higher costs associated with larger cars. Kei cars are also cheaper to produce, helping to keep the average cost in the market around one million yen ($9000 US). The kei segment, with engines limited to 660 cc, have only three manufacturers (Suzuki, Daihatsu and Mitsubishi) and account for 35% of the 6 million vehicles sold in Japan each year.
[Source: Shiotsu]
Rocky
Then again... if I had a black leather interior I might have different thoughts...
Rocky
I liked the looks of the Integra line also."
Well, I didn't just like the looks, I owned a few, including one the not-so-wise marketing mavens at Honda North America chose to label "RSX". Which was my last Integra, also the worst-built one, and the least visceral of all.
Nowadays, what do they have? A bunch of fairly boring sedans and SUVs that offer a middling value at best amongst a SEA of similar sedans and SUVs built by a variety of manufacturers. And if sport is your thing, their value quotient drops even further. And although AWD will serve to boost that sport quotient slightly, it will never trump RWD. And air-conditioned seats and better sound and NAV systems? Oh geez, if those are the hope for Acura's future, then it is clear I will never own another Acura vehicle again. Talk about the ANTITHESIS of aspirational for me personally.
I say slap a hardtop on the S2000 and build a proper Z4 competitor, then bring back that NSX just as quickly as you can possibly manage, and hope it's not too late for the Acura line-up. :-/
I'm sure people will continue to buy the MDX just as they always have for what it offers, DESPITE its looks, but how depressing that ugly sells so well these days.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
the v6 accord might have been honda's bread and butter car back in 98, but then again the expedition was also the best selling car in america.
honda is supposed to build a fit and civic plant for production starting in 08 (or was it late 07? i dunno, but soon.) i think those two cars will sell quite a bit more then.
acura has been dissappointing for a number of years now. with the exception of the RDX, i haven't been moved by a car they've made (no pun intended...) since the integra (transmission problems notwithstanding...) considering the civic's new price, i seriously doubt they will release another small car.
i would be more worried about the as-yet-undetermined impact of the slew of recalls toyota has issued in recent months... perhaps next years numbers might paint a different picture.
I think the designed the 07 MDX exterior for some kind of rap video appeal(hence the gigantic mach-razor grille)which is a wrong move in my opinion.
Why you don't like the 04 TL? Its probably the best looking car in its class and the best buy in its class. I understand if you don;t like the RL.
"with the exception of the RDX, i haven't been moved by a car they've made (no pun intended...) since the integra (transmission problems notwithstanding...)
The Integra wasn't one of the Honda's that were part of their tranny recall a few years ago."
"considering the civic's new price, i seriously doubt they will release another small car."
Ah no Acura is different brand than they were 10 years ago when they were labeled the "Integra brand" I think. Yeah I doubt Acura will be releasing another small car. A small car wouldn't go with Acura's image currently.
Why you don't like the 04 TL? Its probably the best looking car in its class and the best buy in its class. I understand if you don;t like the RL.
"with the exception of the RDX, i haven't been moved by a car they've made (no pun intended...) since the integra (transmission problems notwithstanding...)
The Integra wasn't one of the Honda's that were part of their tranny recall a few years ago."
"considering the civic's new price, i seriously doubt they will release another small car."
Ah no Acura is different brand than they were 10 years ago when they were labeled the "Integra brand" I think. Yeah I doubt Acura will be releasing another small car. A small car wouldn't go with Acura's image currently.
What like the little dog that Paris Hilton has? Yeah I don;t understand the craze of people having little dogs that are not cute. I guess are culture is obssesed with rap video appeal(hence the ugly cars of late)and celebs.
Hay know you what 1990's pop culture was so conservative(in a good way in my opinion)that the cars of that time(early to mid 90's)the cars really weren;t designed to be out there looking if you will like they are today. Maybe the cars are designed has something to with our state in pop culture. Look at the wild and crazy 80's pop culture when the cars had that forgettable "flash in the pan" boxy look.
Noticed the new Civic SI sedan is in at the Honda dealer. Very similar to the coupe, except with four doors. $22K sticker, to which they had added a $1000 "pro pack" (a bunch of useless crap worth maybe $100). If Honda dealers continue to do all these silly, and in some cases quite shady, things to jack up their profits on Hondas, their bread and butter will one day be gone, as the public wisens up and drives right on past the big 'H'. The product will only sell itself for so long.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
This reads as if I wrote it! Yeah that gladiator shield kills the looks of the thing for sure. What sighted person signed off on such a design? I agree about the RDX, it look like some stunted midget version of a regular SUV.
M
The only shining lights in Honda's dismal figures are the new CR-V, TSX and MDX models. The Fit didn't exist last year, but I'm sure it hasn't contributed to sales as much as Honda would like.
American Honda Records Best-Ever November Sales
12.01.06
CR-V posts its third consecutive month of record sales
Total American Honda Motor Co., Inc., November vehicle sales increased 0.6 percent over last year to 106,446, breaking the previous November record of 105,860 set in 2005, the company announced today. Supported by a 51.1 percent increase in Honda CR-V sales and a 66.8 percent increase in Acura MDX sales, American Honda's light truck sales are up 8.1 percent for the month. Year-to-date total vehicle sales continue on a record-setting pace of 1,377,580 cars and light trucks, increasing 3.6 percent over last year and putting the company in line for a 13th straight year of sales increases.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061211/FREE/61211003/1057/M- ICROSITE
Am I the only one that hadn't heard about this? Last I knew, the only engine larger than a V-6 Honda was considering was the 10-cyl for the next NSX and possibly some future RL.
On the flip side, it seems the days of Acuras as lightweight, efficient semi-luxury cars are waning fast...but then, I am biased, I will always miss the Integra and never forgive Honda for killing it in the States...
:mad:
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Speaking of Acura, a Tx Acura dealership is trying to convince me to give the brand a 2nd chance apologized for the treatment I received by one of their competitors where I bought mine.
I told him I possibly could forgive Acura, but it will take a SH-AWD TL w/ a 6-speed manual with plenty of power and performance for me to buy one again. I told him I would add such a car to my short-list if I decide not to get a 08' CTS because it's not good enough.
Rocky
The only shining lights in Honda's dismal figures are the new CR-V, TSX and MDX models. The Fit didn't exist last year, but I'm sure it hasn't contributed to sales as much as Honda would like.
American Honda Records Best-Ever November Sales
12.01.06
CR-V posts its third consecutive month of record sales
Total American Honda Motor Co., Inc., November vehicle sales increased 0.6 percent over last year to 106,446, breaking the previous November record of 105,860 set in 2005, the company announced today. Supported by a 51.1 percent increase in Honda CR-V sales and a 66.8 percent increase in Acura MDX sales, American Honda's light truck sales are up 8.1 percent for the month. Year-to-date total vehicle sales continue on a record-setting pace of 1,377,580 cars and light trucks, increasing 3.6 percent over last year and putting the company in line for a 13th straight year of sales increases.
Honda only increased one percent in comparison to Toyota's 16% increase, Chryslers 3% increase, and GM's 6 percent increase in the month of November. I read somewhere Honda's US market share is down to 8.9 percent this year from 9.1 percent in 2005 at this time. If Honda lost market share for 2006 in the US it would be their first market share loss yearly in the US since 1999 when they went to 6.4 percent market share from a 6.5 percent market share in 1998.
As for the Honda Fit Honda can;t keep up with demand of the Fit in the US i think.
I had to drive all the way across the country to get a Fit without a six month wait and a 1k-3k dealer markup. If Honda wanted the Fit to help sales more all they would have to do is build more! I'm sure the only reason that the Yaris and other Subs are out-selling the Fit is because most buyers turn away when they find out about the waits and markups. Yet they are still selling every Fit they build before it even hits the lot.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
They look more like GE than GM to me. They are the world's largest motorcycle manufacturer, they build a variety of non-automotive powerplants (generators, lawnmowers, etc.), and now they are moving into the small aircraft market. Cars are important, but they represent a smaller portion of their total product portfolio when compared to their peers.
Honda also relies on virtually no fleet sales. Try to rent an Accord or Odyssey or Civic from Hertz, and you'd be hard pressed. Few major corporations purchase Hondas for company cars. But Toyota, Nissan, and Mazda sell tens of thousands of models to rental car companies and to various corporate fleets. This helps beef up the overall sales numbers. (In fact, if not for heavily discounted fleet sales, Ford, GM, and D-C would be in deeper trouble, since they sell fewer cars to actual American consumers.)
Honda definitely has its set of challenges with an Accord that's a bit stale, weak worldwide sales of RL/Legend, funky styling decisions, continual reliance on high rpm VTEC powerplants (which I happen to love but not what you want for torque), and an undersupply of hot models, but I'd say they're doing all right.
Also, just 10 years ago, Honda basically sold 3 models---Accord, Civic, and Prelude. And Acura was a secondary luxury player. They didn't have a real minivan, SUV, trucks, or anything close to the breadth of products they have today. I'd say the company has reinvented itself in a decade, but now must continue to innovate to excel. I like their odds. The unveiling of the 2008/2009 Accord concept in Detroit should be fun to watch.
my kids call it the unofficial family vehicle in my town.
will the current owners/leasers replace it with the new model? i don't know.
They are well behind Lexus and the European LPS marquees, but they still easily outsell Infiniti due to a broader product line. Until Acura has a true V8 flagship that is based on RWD architecture (Infiniti almost has that, except they need a good replacement for the Q), and develop something that can compete with the 3-series, I agree it has a long way to go.
Seems to me Honda is just in a phase of their model runs which is not particularly exciting- it's not a reflection of Honda's product quality or success. With Toyota releasing the new Camry, Yaris, imminent Tundra and new FJ, Toyota is just in an upswing phase of their release schedule- no big surprise that they are doing well.
Watch Honda release the new Accord and Pilot (especially if they put a passenger car diesel engine in the market) and I think we'll see a pretty steep upswing.
Honda redesigned Odyssey two years ago, Civic a year ago and CR-V this year and sales took off for all of them. Next year, it is Accord's turn, as well as Pilot's. How about Fit? Honda's isn't pushing that vehicle in NA market yet (possibly due to approaching redesign). If anything, Honda is bound to gain sales over next year or two, even as Odyssey, Civic and CR-V reach their MMC and show a slow down in sales.
Acura has refreshed only MDX (first time in six years), and launched RDX (whose initial sales were likely hampered by major discounting on outgoing MDX sales, and now seems to be on an upswing). While RL sales are slow, TSX and TL are both due for redesign in a year. I won't be surprised if RL is redesigned as well within couple of years.
So, sustaining and slightly improving sales doesn't seem to be an issue for Honda in the near future. For the longer term, it will be interesting to see where they count on the growth (and will likely have to add segments they don't cover today, including a revised Ridgeline and something like it but smaller, and/or larger).
Acura alone, however, dropped by approximately the same percentage. Not a good year for Acura.
I think we can expect to see steady sales growth (between 3-5%) with a few spurts of faster growth (5-8%). But just becuase they've dropped from a good year to an average year doesn't mean they're in trouble. Steady growth is not a problem.
When things drop, or sales don't come in anywhere near expectations, then Honda will have a problem.
Not to put all the focus on Acura, but MDX sales are good, yet not really any better than the first generation at introduction. Still too early to tell with that vehicle.
The RDX has had one month of decent sales - not actually good, but less tragic than before. I think you're right about it competing with the '06 MDX price-wise. And dealers have finally gotten it through their heads that this rig isn't going to sell at MSRP.
The RL is lost cause. The name is dead. They need to kill "RL" and release a new car with a different set of letters and a new mission in life.
TSX and TL will likely set things back on track. The TL-S will likely stabilize sales for the next year, or so. Given the success of the current TSX, I expect they'll be ready with high production volumes for the 2nd generation. They should get more than 30K/year out of a redesigned TSX.
Rocky
Apparently there are differing definitions of what constitutes being "wiped off the map."
I did hear that Toyota is selling every Yaris they are putting on dealer lots, and that the same thing is happening to Honda with the Fit and Civic.
Yeah but only Toyota/Lexus gained more units in 06 sales vs 05 sales other than Honda in the US. Honda/Acura was up +62,000 in 06 vs 05 sales I think. GM, Ford, and Chrysler(not counting Mercedes sales)all saw declines in their sales 06 vs 05 figures. Nissan also declined by 57,000 units 06 vs 05 sales mainly due to Sentra and Altima getting old in their life cycles. Mazda gained 10,000 units in 06 vs 05 sales. Mercedes gained 23,000-24,000 units vs 05 sales. Kia was up 19,000 units 06 vs 05 sales. Suzuki gained 18,000 units 06 vs 05 sales.
"Acura alone, however, dropped by approximately the same percentage. Not a good year for Acura."
Acura sold 201K units in 2006 vs 209K units in 2005. That was only the second year in the US that Acura had cracked 200K units sold in the US. In Addition, the fact the outgoing 01-06 MDX was in its last year of model cycle on dealer lots for the first 75% of 2006.