Well of course, juice - the 16"s are as large as I'd go for off-roading. I don't think I spend more than 10% of my time off pavement and, when I do, it's usually gravel or dirt/mud roads. 17" on gravel might even be okay.
That's why I don't consider the Forester a true SUV. If I did spend more time off-road I might consider something like a Jeep...but that's another topic.
In response to the recent questions on this subject, I found an alternative online/mail order source for Forester parts and accessories. It is Liberty Subaru at http://www.newsubaru.com/LIBERTY/Partsx.html. I'm also in WA state so it was nice to find a dealer somewhere else. They are in Oradell, NJ. I just ordered a few parts from them. Pricing was approx. $60 for an $80 MSRP part, $30 was discounted to $22.55, and .80 down to .60, so the discount appears to be 25%. Cross country UPS was reasonable at 7.25 (light but big box). Order placed July 31 was invoiced Aug. 8 and received Aug 15 (cross-country UPS, remember). The parts weren't all in stock, so that includes order time for the dealer.
Caution: They were very slow to respond to their on-line order form. I think they are fairly new at mail order so they probably will improve, but you might want to use their toll free number (1-888-SUBY4WD).
My experience is only with this single order, but I would order again. I've seen their advertisements in the back of at least one auto mag. I'm not associated with them in any way.
By the way, this is my first post. I have a 2001 S Premium in Silverthorn. Self-installed accessories have been a hitch and front and rear deflectors. Avg. mpg has been just under 25 (automatic) over 5000 miles, and no problems other than a self-fixed rear hatch popping noise when going over bumps. Anyone want to know about this fix? The dealer knew it was a common problem but didn't have a definitive fix.
Sorry to hear about Darlene. Good person to do business with. very pleasent and always helpful, hope things changes for the better. Hmmmm...I am tempted to start a mail/internet parts business. Wonder what it would take?? I have the financial backing...hmmmm...I'll talk to my entreprenurial professor about it when classes start. Anyways, 'rocco, that is an interesting web site, but no oil lasts 100K miles, which means that when doing an oil change old oil from the filter will remain and mix with new oil...not a good idea. unless of course you use their oil. Too proprietary for me. I like my Valvoline Synpower stuff. But thanks for the response.
Hey guys, this may not be true but I was talking to my local hobby shop keeper and one thing let to another and I ended up complaining about the lack of a Forester model. Lo and behold, this guy tells me that Tamiya is planning to release a Forester Model kit sometime next year, probably of the GT model or STi. Oh year the company also just released a 2001 WRC impreza RC car with an internal combustion engine in 1/8th scale. hehehe just ordered one from the hobby shop...time to terrorize the squirels...:p
Mike-- *lol* yeah, I was just running out the door as I was finishing that post so I really didn't get the chance to continue with my thoughts. No, I agree with what you said. Not only do I believe in frequent oil changes but find that leaving an oil filter on for 100k miles to be absolutely ridiculous; no matter how good it's filtering the oil, it has to be losing its effectiveness by that that time! I also have no interest in using either their oil or their filter but just thought I'd give that site out because it was being discussed over on the Subaru board at Club VMag. I have some more questions about oil and filters but perhaps I'd better ask over on the maintenance forum.
Dale-- Is that the same site that Bit was talking about? I assume it is. I was hoping for an online catalog but even without one, it sounds like pretty good prices. If your are in the Seattle area, have you found any one dealer that offers better prices for parts, etc. than others? I'm going to call Liberty to inquire about their prices but it sounds like you've gathered that, after the shipping charges, they'd still beat buying direct locally? I've ordered several items for my Audi from an online parts dealership in Boston (Clair Group, a multi-manufacturer dealership) that even with the shipping charges, beats any of the local dealers so I was hoping to do the same with the Forester. Thanx for the info'.
Juice or Ken-- I know you've said that you use or are willing to use Purolator (Pure Oil Later *hah* ...I didn't know that's what it stands for!) oil filters. I think I remember reading in one study that Purolator makes the Subaru OEM oil filters. Do you know any place online where one can purchase Purolator filters?
Here in NYC, I get an oil/filter change for $22. It would cost me about $7 in oil + $2 for filter + disposal of the oil. I did finally find a place that is a quickie lube that does a good job. So far no mess-ups, no mess, etc.
Too bad it probably won't go back to the 98-00 models - maybe someone will offer a transkit. Modelers could then buy a Forester kit along with the WRC Safari Impreza kit and build a diorama.
Yup. That's the same place. You do have to send them a parts inquiry but I got a rather quick response, great price and parts arrived in a little over a week... NJ -CA UPS ground.
Hello to Forester fans and wizards-- This is my first posting and I appreciate the advice you might have to give.
I am a long, long-time Honda Civic wagon driver who has decided to make the switch to a subaru forester. I've been driving a 4-speed manual, front wheel drive for years, and have gotten 157,000 miles out of one clutch, so am pretty comfortable with it. My question is: in terms of safety and handling, does the subarus AWD system work any better with manual OR automatic transmission?? I've heard conflicting advice on this from dealers. I like the amount of control I have with the manual transmission, but if the AWD works better with automatic, I can go with that. Any other advice, in terms of pick-up or anything else, to make me choose one or the other? Many thanks for your help!
I have a Legacy GT wagon witht the 5 speed. I think the performance is better with the stick. As for the AWD on the Legacy it is a 50/50 split front to rear on the stick and I believe 90/10 on the auto.
Control, go for the MT 50/50 split, safety go with the 80/20 AT, it can vary power up to 60/40, which IMHO gives you a bigger range of moving power around, than the MT, which is closer to 50/50 all the time.
Mike- I'm gonna have to disagree with you on that one. The MT starts with a 50/50 split but if one half loses traction then the power would transfer to the opposite axle.
Nancy- The AT has a more sophisticated AWD system while the MT has fewer things that can go wrong. Both are widely considered to be excellent designs. The MT also provides slightly better acceleration and MPG figures. And of course the MT is $800 less than the AT.
Scirocco- I'm in SE Wash. State, so I don't know about Seattle area dealers. It seems to be pretty rare to find a local dealer that will discount more than 10-15%, though. I've also ordered from Clair in Boston, for my A4 that I no longer own. If you've been to the audi forums, I wrote the A4 brake pad change instructions that are on the site. Besides the Forester, I have a '99 328i, which has been a very good car.
There's been quite a bit of discussion on this in the past. For most driving purposes, both types will serve you very well in poor road conditions. The two differ in their mechanism so ultimately it's up to you to decide.
The MT AWD system is based on a viscous coupling that acts as a limited slip center differential. The power split default is 50:50 front to back and can go to almost front or rear wheel drive when needed. The advantage of this system is that you have an even power split most of the time resulting in more neutral handling characteristics. The downside is that the viscous coupling won't lock so if you're in very slippery conditions, there will be a noticeable back and forth of power between the front and rear axles.
The AT uses a clutch pack to engage the rear axles when sensors detect slip. Normally, it's front wheel biased, but can send close to half of the power to the rear wheels. The advantage of the AT system is that in certain gears, you can keep a power split resulting in smoother driving in very slippery stuff. The downside to the AT system is that under normal conditions, it's most front wheel drive (understeers more).
Again, both systems work equally well under adverse road conditions. It's only under certain extreme conditions that you'll notice the difference.
My advice is to choose AT vs. MT based on your driving style and not for the AWD mechanism.
I was concerned as to which AWD system would be better. I am also a long time stick shift user, and I like the responsiveness, control and improved MPG I get from a manual transmission. I was considering an automatic for my '01 Forester until I test-drove one of each at the dealership. The 5 speed was noticeably peppier than the auto, so that it what I chose. My daily commute is mostly highway without much traffic, so the 5 speed isn't a problem. I can't comment on snow, as I only got mine in April, but it is great on dry and wet roads. My suggestion is to stay with the stick shift, especially since you are already used to that.
I've ordered from them a few times & recieved good service. My local dealer can't come close to their prices. I would suggest you call them at 888-SUBY4WD. I always try to talk to a human when ordering things.
I can add some snow experience, we have both a MT and an automatic Forester. Our driveway is 3000 sq. ft., 20' wide and about 130' long where it is straight to the road. It is also about a 20 to 25 degree incline to the street (garage under).
I couldn't wait for some significant snow so I could experiment. We got about 12" of heavy wet stuff (MA) so I left the snow blower in the garage and fired up both Foresters.
It was pretty uneventful but there are were some differences. I started at the bottom and goosed it up the incline, _trying_ to make them slip. My MT just drove right through it with hardly any slip at all, and mine is the L without the LSD. I was moving pretty good too.
My wife's automatic also had no issue with the task, but hers did it differently. The front wheels started to slip noticeably and instantly I could feel the power shift to the rear, keeping forward momentum. Hers is a Premium with the LSD. Both tracked very straight.
I can also tell you that in normal use through last winter, both vehicles felt extremely competent, never feeling unstable, never slipping. This includes a bunch of ice covered roads. If I hadn't tried to make them slip in the driveway, they wouldn't have. I could have just driven to the end and been on my way.
As Ken said, choose your favorite transmission and be comfortable with your choice. As Len said if you want the extra pep and control, the MT is a great choice, and cheaper too. You really can't go wrong either way.
Hey, Rocco, I finally got to see a platinum silver Forester in person -- nice!! That wouldda been my first choice too. So all in all, how happy are you with the Forester now that you've had it a short while? I know you really thought hard about the decision, and I sense that you're a little disappointed (in the way it drives, in the amount of space that the moonroof takes up). On a 10-point scale, how would you rate your satisfaction with it? (And for that matter, how would you rate the A4, even though they're very different kinds of vehicles? I still wish I couldda gotten one of each!)
YIKES! My husband was taking out the dog crate from out of the back and dug 2 deep scratches into each of the rounded plastic structures on each side(I don't know what to call it!) I almost died! The whole thing replays in my head like nails against a blackboard.
Anyways, He said that the way to fix it would be to put a hot iron to it. I wanted to know what YOU guys thought was the best thing to fix it. I don't want to end up doing a mickey mouse job on this one.
Laurie-- I'm trying to picture exactly where you are talking about. Are these rounded structures near the hatch opening? Is the plastic grained? I'd think melting the plastic by using an iron would possibly make it look worse than the scratch itself. Can you post of picture of it?
Karen-- Sorry I haven't been over on the A4 board recently. I've been spending quite a bit of time researching your headlight problems and was going to post you some links to check out but haven't quite compiled everything yet... well, I'm also getting sort of confused by everything I'm reading *lol* --just when I think I have a solution, I read something else that contradicts what I thought was the ultimate solution. Anyway, I'll try to get back to you sometime on that. I did get the chance to glance at the board over there and it appears that you and Ken are leading the discussions quite nicely ...good for you! :-p
As far as the Forester goes, yeah, I do have some concerns but probably more appropriate to discuss them away from this board. *lol* Yes, I am fond of the silver color on cars but I don't know if having two silver cars makes much sense ...but what makes less sense is buying two new cars in the same year! *shakes head* When I was at the dealership picking up the Forester, I saw a red one on the lot and thought maybe I had made a mistake... the red really looked sharp! I didn't like the beige interior, however. Anyway, I'll give you my ratings and other impressions when I get back over "there." I've been pretty busy with work related stuff recently but I'll try to post this week-end sometime. Take care! *waves*
Thanks to everyone who responded to my query regarding whether to buy an AT or MT on the Subaru Forester. I'm going to give each a thorough test drive and make my decision based on how they feel and what feels right to me. Very helpful tips and explanations!
Sorry, the plastic is only rounded off at the edges.They're right behind the backseat on both right/left sides. I believe the rear wheels lie under neath this structure The top is plastic, the rest is 'fuzzy'!
Rocco, thanks SO much for researching the headlight question; I'm going to post a related message on the A4 forum. In the meantime, why don't you call off the search, or I'll feel guilty!
By the way, interesting about your impressions of the red Forester. When I thought I was going to get a Forester, I decided to wait for the 2001 models in hopes that they'd offer a dark green in the S/with Premium package. Unfortunately, that wasn't one of the choices. So then I was leaning toward Sedona red but ultimately cooled on that choice because I thought it would look better with a gray interior; like you, I wasn't crazy about the beige. Some people thought I was nuts about being so picky about the color, including the interior color, but I think it's important to be happy with the overall looks of whatever you're driving. And I do think the new silver looks very classy.
Hi everybody, recently I've send my son to buy me an oil and he came home with Valvoline Synthetic Blend. What exactly is it ? Is it synthetic oil like Mobil-1 or is it some hybrid oil ? I've put it anyway and with Juice's instructions it was piece of cake. Now about vacation with Forester 2001 M/T. Last weekend we went to Acadia National Park in Maine from New York City. We've made 1200 miles in 4 days. Driving at around 70 mph with A/C on we've came out with 31 mpg. With the speed 85-95mph milage came down to 27 mpg. I'm highly recomending Maine, at least its coastal part. We've took route 1 from Brunswick to Ellsworth and siteseeings are unforgettable. Same goes to Acadia Park. Forester didn't have any problem climbing Cadillac Mt. Before going on the trip my check engine light went on. Problem was checked by dealer and I was O.K-ed to go while the part was ordered. Assist injector solenoid valve was replaced and problem seems to be solved.It was fixed by Staten Island Subaru and so far I'm satisfied with them, Mike-Paisan. I was taken care by Debborah and she was very nice to me. And that's all for today folks. Chris.
Chris, Valvoline Synpower synthetic oil is like Mobil-1, infact they are direct competitors. Valvoline also make 1)Dura Blend, which is a synthetic/regular mix, 2)Max Life, which is also a blend with more additives for high mileage engines, 3)All climate, which is regular/dino motor oil.
Ken, Patti posted up that in NO GEAR SELECTION on the AT transmission does it lock in the power to 50/50 or any other pre-determined torque split. No matter where the gear selector is (R,1,2,3,D) it is always 80/20 F/R split to start with, that will vary up to 60/40 F/R.
Mike, If Patti posted that info, it is in direct contradiction to the owners manual which states that when the gear selector is placed in either 1st, 2nd, and/or reverse the power distribution is 50/50. Oooh yeah .. the debate continues. - hutch
Laurie -- I wonder if you're talking about the plastic caps on the rear strut towers. I'd be cautious about trying to 'melt' the plastic back into shape. Try a little piece before laying an iron onto the whole thing. Since it's plastic trim, you may be able to replace that part if all else fails.
AT AWD Torque splits -- I'd really love to see an official article from Subaru explaining this much debated issue. Someone somewhere has to know for sure!
I know Patti has stated 80:20 and upto 60:40 from information from techs she has contact with. But, I also am suspicious then - because as Ken pointed out, the brochures say 90:10 and 50:50 in 1 or 2. I know there's a disclaimer in the brochures, but c'mon, are they right or are they wrong?
I own a 2002 Forester S. I have been to a few places to have the oil changed(other than the dealer) and no one knows which oil filter is to be used on the 2002 as they say the book has not come out yet. Any one know if it uses the same as the 2001?
I have never understood the claim that the Forester is not a "real" SUV because "you cannot take it off-road." Well, I do a LOT of hiking here in the Pac. NW and I'm not sure exactly how, why or when one ever goes off-road.
That being said, I drive my '02 L AT off *pavement* nearly every weekend, and some of these are old logging roads that really push its all-road abilities to the max.
So - I'm interested in the power transfer debate, especially as far as someone producing a straight dope statement from SOA. My own experience is that power transfer occurs in an adequate manner, particularly on higher-angle or soft stuff, such that I have always gotten wherever I wanted to go. (Mind, I do take precautions in scouting ahead, on foot, and pick a very careful line. I am very well aware that this is not a Jeep.)
Also, I have decided to add the rear diff. protector. Not sure that it will really add a lot of protection, but some protection might be all it takes to emerge unscathed.
Anyone installed this item themselves?
Also, to Scirocco, what does "*lol*" mean? I ask this on the board at large because I suspect others are curious too. (If this is a blatantly obvious abbreviation, or if I missed the explanation, then I guess its shame on me.)
The basic off-road problem with subies IMHO is the angle of approach and departure that is created by the engine layout/bumpers. If they had less overhang in the front and rear, they'd be far better off-roading. Toss in low-range and they'd be even better.
lol= laughing out loud
-mike
PS: I think Juice installed the rear diffy protector pretty easily.
bit-- Whew! Was it just my imagination or did I read that twice?? *lol* (ooops, sorry, Ken ...I guess I really do laugh too much here; my apologies :-p) That really is a good description of the differences in the two awd systems that Subaru uses in its MT vs AT cars. I was going to post a synopsis on awd ( http://www.eskimo.com/~eliot/awd.html) but its latest revision is two years old and doesn't really sum up the answer as well as you just did. It's more of a comparison of different awd systems.
Laurie-- I looked at the strut towers in the back and noticed what you were talking about ...the plastic piece that's on top appears to be a fairly small section and as Ken S. stated, probably wouldn't be too difficult to replace. How deep are the scratches? If they're not too deep maybe going over it with an exceptionally fine grain of sandpaper and then applying a plastic polish or restorer (preservative) may mask it a bit. If you can live with it, when you go to sell the car, the cargo cover brace almost fits on top of it so it might not show to the prosective buyer. *shrugs*
Ken H.-- hmmm, sorry to use that so often, it's kinda ridiculous to use it in this forum but it's a common chat abbreviation and I have a bad habit of using them in both e-mail and message boards. Don't feel bad ...people that don't use chat forums probably wouldn't be exposed to chat expressions that frequently ...sorry! My buddy has an extra ticket to one of the Detroit games on Thursday afternoon so hopefully I can get off work early (which I probably can't *whimpers*) ...wait a sec, that's the last game of that series so if it's a sweep day, I just might play hooky! :-p
Yeah.... don't know what I was doing with that first post. Or this one
Here's the info from the SOA site. Not sure if it answers your questions:
Continuous All-Wheel Drive: Simple, Effective, and Reliable
In vehicles with the 5-speed manual transmission, the All-Wheel Drive uses a viscous coupling in a center differential inside the transaxle case. It contains a series of opposing discs attached to the front and rear output shafts, surrounded by a silicone fluid. In normal operation, power is distributed equally between the front and rear wheels (50/50 power split). Slippage at the front or rear wheels causes a rotational difference between the front and rear discs in the viscous unit, which then shears the fluid.
The shearing action heats the fluid, causing it to thicken. As the fluid thickens, power transfers from the slipping wheels to the wheels with the best traction. When the slippage ceases, all the discs turn at the same speed, restoring the 50/50 power split. The process is quick and imperceptible to the driver and passengers. The continuous All-Wheel Driving System is simple, compact, and virtually invisible during operation. Its traction adds a significant margin of safety on slippery or unpaved roads, and enhances dry-road handling.
Active All-Wheel Drive
Subaru models equipped with the four-speed electronic automatic transmission (4EAT) employ Active All-Wheel Drive. Active All-Wheel Drive optimizes power distribution before slippage occurs.
Instead of a viscous coupling center differential, 4EAT-equipped Subaru vehicles feature an electronically managed variable transfer clutch in the transaxle tailshaft. Power transfer is governed by slippage in the clutch plates, which use a special friction material that easily handles the loads generated during power transfer.
The electronic Transmission Control Module (TCM) controls the All-Wheel Drive multi-plate clutch. The "normal" power split is 90 percent front/10 percent rear. The active AWD can adjust the power split in an instant, depending on many input factors. If the front wheels begin to slip, the TCM increases hydraulic pressure on the clutch, reducing slippage of the plates. As the front wheels regain traction, the TCM reduces pressure on the clutch, increasing slippage of the plates and transferring power to the front.Continuous All-Wheel Drive: Simple, Effective, and Reliable
In vehicles with the 5-speed manual transmission, the All-Wheel Drive uses a viscous coupling in a center differential inside the transaxle case. It contains a series of opposing discs attached to the front and rear output shafts, surrounded by a silicone fluid. In normal operation, power is distributed equally between the front and rear wheels (50/50 power split). Slippage at the front or rear wheels causes a rotational difference between the front and rear discs in the viscous unit, which then shears the fluid.
The shearing action heats the fluid, causing it to thicken. As the fluid thickens, power transfers from the slipping wheels to the wheels with the best traction. When the slippage ceases, all the discs turn at the same speed, restoring the 50/50 power split. The process is quick and imperceptible to the driver and passengers.
The continuous All-Wheel Driving System is simple, compact, and virtually invisible during operation. Its traction adds a significant margin of safety on slippery or unpaved roads, and enhances dry-road handling.
I think the 90/10 and 80/20 figures make little difference. It's basically FWD for the sake of fuel efficiency, with the rears basically getting only enough power to be ready to receive more of it.
Which is why the EPA city estimate is actually better on autos than on manuals (22 vs. 21). Real world figures are different, but Subies can outsmart the EPA.
The important thing, to me, is the "feel". The autos feel like FWD, except there is much better traction when needed. This is ideal for most drivers. You get what you need when you need it.
The manuals feel more neutral, and this is what I like about it. It doesn't feel like FWD at all, ever. While it is not as sophisticated, it is every bit as effective and it is elegant in its simplicity.
We debate this topic often, but when it comes down to it, traction is excellent with both. I can't break traction in the snow unless I try to (for fun). Even a novice driver can drive safely in snow if they are being careful.
Jerry: I have not seen any DRL disabling, but you could check i Club and do a topic search. I'm sure you know it's illegal to remove any safety features - just a disclaimer.
I do have the diffy protector. It's quite beefy. The install is a little tricky because you have to move the exhaust pipe over to reach two bolts, but not too difficult. Instructions and photos are here.
True, the difference between 90/10 vs. 80/20 is negligible. I think the one thing people really want to know about is what happens in 1st, 2nd and Reverse gears?
Just guessing here, but would it stand to reason then that an AT equipped Forester would better benefit from a larger rear sway bar than a manual model would?
That at least the 1st generation 4EATs do not do a 50/50 lock. Since when I auto-x I use the "2" gear selector position, and make some very sharp turns when lining up for grid, and I'd definitely feel the axles binding if that was the case. As for the 2nd gen 4EAT, I can't vouche.
Before I start complaining about a few minor issues, let me say that this is a very well designed and executed car (SUV?).
Since day 1, the car had a slight high pitched wine when going above 65 mph. It's pretty hard to hear, but I can hear it, and the Subaru mechanic I had with me in the car could hear it too. The pitch is like a jet engine when reving. The mechanic said that there is nothing abnormal with my car, although it is possible other 2002 might not have it. He basically said that no 2 cars are alike. They did not have any other 2002 in the lot to compare (I bough mine from another dealership). The fluids in AT/differentials are fine.
A second thing is a rattle coming from the hatch area. Started a few days ago. It's more like a 'thud', it does not sound plasticky or buzzy. It's pretty much all the time there at low speeds, when going over small potholes or bumps.
Yesterday after I turned the front wipers on, on the Intermitent setting, after a few minutes the relay started to become much louder than I think it should. I had other cars with intermittent wipers and I could not hear the relay. This is way louder.
Finally, I checked the front and rear door speakers and they are very low quality. I have the the tweeter package and the tweeters look fine, but the main speakers definitely need an upgrade... The head unit seems good quality though.
Surprisingly low noise from roof rack and sunroof.
Comments
That's why I don't consider the Forester a true SUV. If I did spend more time off-road I might consider something like a Jeep...but that's another topic.
Ed
Caution: They were very slow to respond to their on-line order form. I think they are fairly new at mail order so they probably will improve, but you might want to use their toll free number (1-888-SUBY4WD).
My experience is only with this single order, but I would order again. I've seen their advertisements in the back of at least one auto mag. I'm not associated with them in any way.
By the way, this is my first post. I have a 2001 S Premium in Silverthorn. Self-installed accessories have been a hitch and front and rear deflectors. Avg. mpg has been just under 25 (automatic) over 5000 miles, and no problems other than a self-fixed rear hatch popping noise when going over bumps. Anyone want to know about this fix? The dealer knew it was a common problem but didn't have a definitive fix.
Mike
Mike
Dale-- Is that the same site that Bit was talking about? I assume it is. I was hoping for an online catalog but even without one, it sounds like pretty good prices. If your are in the Seattle area, have you found any one dealer that offers better prices for parts, etc. than others? I'm going to call Liberty to inquire about their prices but it sounds like you've gathered that, after the shipping charges, they'd still beat buying direct locally? I've ordered several items for my Audi from an online parts dealership in Boston (Clair Group, a multi-manufacturer dealership) that even with the shipping charges, beats any of the local dealers so I was hoping to do the same with the Forester. Thanx for the info'.
Juice or Ken-- I know you've said that you use or are willing to use Purolator (Pure Oil Later *hah* ...I didn't know that's what it stands for!) oil filters. I think I remember reading in one study that Purolator makes the Subaru OEM oil filters. Do you know any place online where one can purchase Purolator filters?
--'rocco
-mike
Ed
Mike: please keep us posted on that scale model. I've never seen any kind of model Forester.
I'm not sure who carries Purolator, but it's the type of brand you'd find at an auto parts store like Pep Boys or Track Auto.
mike (lower case "m" for paisan): $22 is fair, but I have 3 cars, so it's $66. I can do it myself for about $25.
Plus, I never drain the tranny fluid by accident. I've heard of 3 cases now on Subies.
-juice
-mike
I'm anal and use a torque wrench and crush washer every time. I also don't overfill it. Both of these problems are common.
-juice
Although they all have different maintenance schedules so it wouldn't help. Currently the MX6 is on a non-maintenance schedule
-mike
bit - 2001 GT Wagon
This is my first posting and I appreciate the advice you might have to give.
I am a long, long-time Honda Civic wagon driver who has decided to make the switch to a subaru forester. I've been driving a 4-speed manual, front wheel drive for years, and have gotten 157,000 miles out of one clutch, so am pretty comfortable with it. My question is: in terms of safety and handling, does the subarus AWD system work any better with manual OR automatic transmission?? I've heard conflicting advice on this from dealers. I like the amount of control I have with the manual transmission, but if the AWD works better with automatic, I can go with that. Any other advice, in terms of pick-up or anything else, to make me choose one or the other?
Many thanks for your help!
bit - 2001 GT Wagon
-mike
Nancy- The AT has a more sophisticated AWD system while the MT has fewer things that can go wrong. Both are widely considered to be excellent designs. The MT also provides slightly better acceleration and MPG figures. And of course the MT is $800 less than the AT.
-Frank P.
-mike
thank you! jerryg49
The MT AWD system is based on a viscous coupling that acts as a limited slip center differential. The power split default is 50:50 front to back and can go to almost front or rear wheel drive when needed. The advantage of this system is that you have an even power split most of the time resulting in more neutral handling characteristics. The downside is that the viscous coupling won't lock so if you're in very slippery conditions, there will be a noticeable back and forth of power between the front and rear axles.
The AT uses a clutch pack to engage the rear axles when sensors detect slip. Normally, it's front wheel biased, but can send close to half of the power to the rear wheels. The advantage of the AT system is that in certain gears, you can keep a power split resulting in smoother driving in very slippery stuff. The downside to the AT system is that under normal conditions, it's most front wheel drive (understeers more).
Again, both systems work equally well under adverse road conditions. It's only under certain extreme conditions that you'll notice the difference.
My advice is to choose AT vs. MT based on your driving style and not for the AWD mechanism.
Ken
Len
Chuck
I can add some snow experience, we have both a MT and an automatic Forester. Our driveway is 3000 sq. ft., 20' wide and about 130' long where it is straight to the road. It is also about a 20 to 25 degree incline to the street (garage under).
I couldn't wait for some significant snow so I could experiment. We got about 12" of heavy wet stuff (MA) so I left the snow blower in the garage and fired up both Foresters.
It was pretty uneventful but there are were some differences. I started at the bottom and goosed it up the incline, _trying_ to make them slip. My MT just drove right through it with hardly any slip at all, and mine is the L without the LSD. I was moving pretty good too.
My wife's automatic also had no issue with the task, but hers did it differently. The front wheels started to slip noticeably and instantly I could feel the power shift to the rear, keeping forward momentum. Hers is a Premium with the LSD. Both tracked very straight.
I can also tell you that in normal use through last winter, both vehicles felt extremely competent, never feeling unstable, never slipping. This includes a bunch of ice covered roads. If I hadn't tried to make them slip in the driveway, they wouldn't have. I could have just driven to the end and been on my way.
As Ken said, choose your favorite transmission and be comfortable with your choice. As Len said if you want the extra pep and control, the MT is a great choice, and cheaper too. You really can't go wrong either way.
Regards,
Frank
Anyways, He said that the way to fix it would be to put a hot iron to it. I wanted to know what YOU guys thought was the best thing to fix it. I don't want to end up doing a mickey mouse job on this one.
Any suggestions?
--'rocco
As far as the Forester goes, yeah, I do have some concerns but probably more appropriate to discuss them away from this board. *lol* Yes, I am fond of the silver color on cars but I don't know if having two silver cars makes much sense ...but what makes less sense is buying two new cars in the same year! *shakes head* When I was at the dealership picking up the Forester, I saw a red one on the lot and thought maybe I had made a mistake... the red really looked sharp! I didn't like the beige interior, however. Anyway, I'll give you my ratings and other impressions when I get back over "there." I've been pretty busy with work related stuff recently but I'll try to post this week-end sometime. Take care! *waves*
--'rocco
Very helpful tips and explanations!
The top is plastic, the rest is 'fuzzy'!
~L
By the way, interesting about your impressions of the red Forester. When I thought I was going to get a Forester, I decided to wait for the 2001 models in hopes that they'd offer a dark green in the S/with Premium package. Unfortunately, that wasn't one of the choices. So then I was leaning toward Sedona red but ultimately cooled on that choice because I thought it would look better with a gray interior; like you, I wasn't crazy about the beige. Some people thought I was nuts about being so picky about the color, including the interior color, but I think it's important to be happy with the overall looks of whatever you're driving. And I do think the new silver looks very classy.
Now about vacation with Forester 2001 M/T. Last weekend we went to Acadia National Park in Maine from New York City. We've made 1200 miles in 4 days. Driving at around 70 mph with A/C on we've came out with 31 mpg. With the speed 85-95mph milage came down to 27 mpg. I'm highly recomending Maine, at least its coastal part. We've took route 1 from Brunswick to Ellsworth and siteseeings are unforgettable. Same goes to Acadia Park. Forester didn't have any problem climbing Cadillac Mt.
Before going on the trip my check engine light went on. Problem was checked by dealer and I was O.K-ed to go while the part was ordered. Assist injector solenoid valve was replaced and problem seems to be solved.It was fixed by Staten Island Subaru and so far I'm satisfied with them, Mike-Paisan. I was taken care by Debborah and she was very nice to me. And that's all for today folks. Chris.
Hope this clear thing up.
Mike
Patti posted up that in NO GEAR SELECTION on the AT transmission does it lock in the power to 50/50 or any other pre-determined torque split. No matter where the gear selector is (R,1,2,3,D) it is always 80/20 F/R split to start with, that will vary up to 60/40 F/R.
-mike
If Patti posted that info, it is in direct contradiction to the owners manual which states that when the gear selector is placed in either 1st, 2nd, and/or reverse the power distribution is 50/50. Oooh yeah .. the debate continues.
- hutch
AT AWD Torque splits -- I'd really love to see an official article from Subaru explaining this much debated issue. Someone somewhere has to know for sure!
Ken
-Brian
I have been to a few places to have the oil changed(other than the dealer) and no one knows which oil filter is to be used on the 2002 as they say the book has not come out yet.
Any one know if it uses the same as the 2001?
Ross
Which brochure states 90/10? (is it online anywhere, I'd be curious to see it, and I'll have to check my dad's manual in his '97)
-mike
That being said, I drive my '02 L AT off *pavement* nearly every weekend, and some of these are old logging roads that really push its all-road abilities to the max.
So - I'm interested in the power transfer debate, especially as far as someone producing a straight dope statement from SOA. My own experience is that power transfer occurs in an adequate manner, particularly on higher-angle or soft stuff, such that I have always gotten wherever I wanted to go. (Mind, I do take precautions in scouting ahead, on foot, and pick a very careful line. I am very well aware that this is not a Jeep.)
Also, I have decided to add the rear diff. protector. Not sure that it will really add a lot of protection, but some protection might be all it takes to emerge unscathed.
Anyone installed this item themselves?
Also, to Scirocco, what does "*lol*" mean? I ask this on the board at large because I suspect others are curious too. (If this is a blatantly obvious abbreviation, or if I missed the explanation, then I guess its shame on me.)
Ken
lol= laughing out loud
-mike
PS: I think Juice installed the rear diffy protector pretty easily.
Laurie-- I looked at the strut towers in the back and noticed what you were talking about ...the plastic piece that's on top appears to be a fairly small section and as Ken S. stated, probably wouldn't be too difficult to replace. How deep are the scratches? If they're not too deep maybe going over it with an exceptionally fine grain of sandpaper and then applying a plastic polish or restorer (preservative) may mask it a bit. If you can live with it, when you go to sell the car, the cargo cover brace almost fits on top of it so it might not show to the prosective buyer. *shrugs*
Ken H.-- hmmm, sorry to use that so often, it's kinda ridiculous to use it in this forum but it's a common chat abbreviation and I have a bad habit of using them in both e-mail and message boards. Don't feel bad ...people that don't use chat forums probably wouldn't be exposed to chat expressions that frequently ...sorry! My buddy has an extra ticket to one of the Detroit games on Thursday afternoon so hopefully I can get off work early (which I probably can't *whimpers*) ...wait a sec, that's the last game of that series so if it's a sweep day, I just might play hooky! :-p
--'rocco
Here's the info from the SOA site. Not sure if it answers your questions:
Continuous All-Wheel Drive: Simple, Effective, and Reliable
In vehicles with the 5-speed manual transmission, the All-Wheel Drive uses a viscous coupling in a center differential inside the transaxle case. It contains a series of opposing discs attached to the front and rear output shafts, surrounded by a silicone fluid. In normal operation, power is distributed equally between the front and rear wheels (50/50 power split). Slippage at the front or rear wheels causes a rotational difference between the front and rear discs in the viscous unit, which then shears the fluid.
The shearing action heats the fluid, causing it to thicken. As the fluid thickens, power transfers from the slipping wheels to the wheels with the best traction. When the slippage ceases, all the discs turn at the same speed, restoring the 50/50 power split. The process is quick and imperceptible to the driver and passengers.
The continuous All-Wheel Driving System is simple, compact, and virtually invisible during operation. Its traction adds a significant margin of safety on slippery or unpaved roads, and enhances dry-road handling.
Active All-Wheel Drive
Subaru models equipped with the four-speed electronic automatic transmission (4EAT) employ Active All-Wheel Drive. Active All-Wheel Drive optimizes power distribution before slippage occurs.
Instead of a viscous coupling center differential, 4EAT-equipped Subaru vehicles feature an electronically managed variable transfer clutch in the transaxle tailshaft. Power transfer is governed by slippage in the clutch plates, which use a special friction material that easily handles the loads generated during power transfer.
The electronic Transmission Control Module (TCM) controls the All-Wheel Drive multi-plate clutch. The "normal" power split is 90 percent front/10 percent rear. The active AWD can adjust the power split in an instant, depending on many input factors. If the front wheels begin to slip, the TCM increases hydraulic pressure on the clutch, reducing slippage of the plates. As the front wheels regain traction, the TCM reduces pressure on the clutch, increasing slippage of the plates and transferring power to the front.Continuous All-Wheel Drive: Simple, Effective, and Reliable
In vehicles with the 5-speed manual transmission, the All-Wheel Drive uses a viscous coupling in a center differential inside the transaxle case. It contains a series of opposing discs attached to the front and rear output shafts, surrounded by a silicone fluid. In normal operation, power is distributed equally between the front and rear wheels (50/50 power split). Slippage at the front or rear wheels causes a rotational difference between the front and rear discs in the viscous unit, which then shears the fluid.
The shearing action heats the fluid, causing it to thicken. As the fluid thickens, power transfers from the slipping wheels to the wheels with the best traction. When the slippage ceases, all the discs turn at the same speed, restoring the 50/50 power split. The process is quick and imperceptible to the driver and passengers.
The continuous All-Wheel Driving System is simple, compact, and virtually invisible during operation. Its traction adds a significant margin of safety on slippery or unpaved roads, and enhances dry-road handling.
bit
Which is why the EPA city estimate is actually better on autos than on manuals (22 vs. 21). Real world figures are different, but Subies can outsmart the EPA.
The important thing, to me, is the "feel". The autos feel like FWD, except there is much better traction when needed. This is ideal for most drivers. You get what you need when you need it.
The manuals feel more neutral, and this is what I like about it. It doesn't feel like FWD at all, ever. While it is not as sophisticated, it is every bit as effective and it is elegant in its simplicity.
We debate this topic often, but when it comes down to it, traction is excellent with both. I can't break traction in the snow unless I try to (for fun). Even a novice driver can drive safely in snow if they are being careful.
Jerry: I have not seen any DRL disabling, but you could check i Club and do a topic search. I'm sure you know it's illegal to remove any safety features - just a disclaimer.
I do have the diffy protector. It's quite beefy. The install is a little tricky because you have to move the exhaust pipe over to reach two bolts, but not too difficult. Instructions and photos are here.
-juice
I have a 01 with a/t...if I put the selector in 1 or 2 do I or do I not get a 50/50 power split?
Patti do you have an answer or is the best source the repair manual?
I know there are lots of views/opinions on this subject but certainly there has to be a definitive answer in laymans terms.
True, the difference between 90/10 vs. 80/20 is negligible. I think the one thing people really want to know about is what happens in 1st, 2nd and Reverse gears?
Ken
-mike
Hmmm...maybe time to swap out that 18mm for a 20?
Ed
-mike
Since day 1, the car had a slight high pitched wine when going above 65 mph. It's pretty hard to hear, but I can hear it, and the Subaru mechanic I had with me in the car could hear it too. The pitch is like a jet engine when reving. The mechanic said that there is nothing abnormal with my car, although it is possible other 2002 might not have it. He basically said that no 2 cars are alike. They did not have any other 2002 in the lot to compare (I bough mine from another dealership). The fluids in AT/differentials are fine.
A second thing is a rattle coming from the hatch area. Started a few days ago. It's more like a 'thud', it does not sound plasticky or buzzy. It's pretty much all the time there at low speeds, when going over small potholes or bumps.
Yesterday after I turned the front wipers on, on the Intermitent setting, after a few minutes the relay started to become much louder than I think it should. I had other cars with intermittent wipers and I could not hear the relay. This is way louder.
Finally, I checked the front and rear door speakers and they are very low quality. I have the the tweeter package and the tweeters look fine, but the main speakers definitely need an upgrade... The head unit seems good quality though.
Surprisingly low noise from roof rack and sunroof.
I am averaging low 20's in mixed driving.