Is Cadillac's Image Dying and Does Anyone Care?

readerreader · January 2007

This text box parses links sometimes, so use the search to find pictures over on the 2008 CTS specific board.

bumpy · January 2007

They're trying. I don't like what they're trying, but I will give them credit for making the effort this time.

So, how much does GM's Great Wreathed Hope weigh?

xrunner2 · January 2007

Here's the CTS's details

2008 CTS has a nice design, especially in profile and rear 3/4 view. But, what is the appendage on front fenders just below A pillar?

What are details about new engine?

louiswei · January 2007

Not exactly standard of the world...

Technology & Craftmanship

Easy Key system only an option, not standard.
Upgrade audio system: 10-speaker, 300-watt Bose (IS350: 14-speaker, 1-subwoofer, 300-watt Mark-Levinson)
Base audio system: 8-speaker (IS350: 13-speaker, 1-subwoofer)

I'll give Caddy credit to the cut-and-sew interior. However, the material quality is still remain to be seen. I don't think it'll dissappoint though.

Performance

I wouldn't call 300 HP, 270 lb-ft the standard of the world (or even class in this case) either. IS350's 2GR-FSE utilized both direct & port-injection instead of this 3.6L's direct-injection.

Weight: 3872 lbs, that's the heaviest of them all in the entry level luxury performance sedan class. Although CTS is officially a midsize comparing to other compacts such as the 3er, IS and G.

Don't see how this one can beat G35 in 0-60 since the G is lighter with a more or less equal power engine (306 HP). If it couldn't beat the G then definitely couldn't beat the 335i and IS350.

Based on what I read I think this is a very competitive product from GM and should do very well in the ELLPS market. One thing remain to be seen is the handling, I am looking forward to the future comparos and my own test drive later this year. Wouldn't be surprised to see the new CTS's handling to be on par with the 3er or at least not far away from it since that's one of the old CTS's strength.

fintail · January 2007

Me no likey the analog clock. It was amusing when Infiniti did it, but that was over a decade ago, and now it is just cliche.

I will give credit that the disturbing technical graining is gone. But is that dash top kind of fuzzy? Or is it the angle?

I actually like all the buttons...a weird fetish I guess (I also love toggle and rocker switches), but I suspect they will garner complaints from some.

The loyalists should be counting down to the demise of the 3er, C, IS, and G any minute now. It looks to be competitive though, and that's a good thing.

3800 lbs?! That's what my E55 weighs! That's nearly what my old W126 weighed!

Oh yeah, and this thing looks pretty much like what british_rover posted....

bumpy · January 2007

3872??? Mein Gott! :surprise: :sick: :sick: :sick:

Mr_Shiftright · January 2007

Do all the cars come with handprints on the door panels? :P

Actually you don't want "hand-built" anything in a modern car...humans make mistakes...but you want the person assembling your car by hand (those parts that are still installed that way) to be sober and happy and awake.

But for boring out my cylinder walls, I'll take Mr. Robot, thank you very much.

62vetteefp · January 2007

How many of those Lucernes were the $24k 200hp V6 model? Those are the only ones I've ever seen, invariably driven by some old geezer

Probably none since it starts at $26.4k. And I wonder what is wrong with geezers? Do they not deserve to drive? Do they not have money?

laurasdada · January 2007

My initial reaction to the '08 (and just from the pix) is favorable. To me it looks a bit like an Acura TSX on steroids, and while the front end is certainly un-subtle, is it that much worse than the Audi corporate grille? (Yeah, a bit...). Interior looks very nice, but again, we'll have to see/feel/touch and taste the materials. And I do like the analog clock, I find it adds character and elegance. I am also somewhat of a wristwatch guy, so I may be biased... And is a digital clock not a cliche?

I look forwad to reviews of the whole ball of wax. Just like Lexus (and to a much lesser extent, market-wise, Infiniti) was back in '89, hopefully this will keep the beloved Euro marques on their toes and their prices (somewhat) within reach.

Hardtop convertible version, when??? My mid-life crisis is calling for a hardtop convertible...

louiswei · January 2007

3872??? Mein Gott!

I really see this new CTS to be a 5-series/E-class/GS/M fighter than a compact luxury performance sedan. Maybe this is the direction that GM's going, make CTS be their midsize, STS fullsize and bring the BLS over as their entry level sedan.

british_rover · January 2007

Ah yes but I am foolish... :confuse:

Anyway I like it but I kind of liked the old CTS except for the interior and so so transmission.

Too bad there aren't any Caddy dealers around here or I would go take a look at one on my lunch break when they come in.

bumpy · January 2007

Somehow I doubt that Enterprise or anybody else pays $26,400 for a base Lucerne.

And I wonder what is wrong with geezers? Do they not deserve to drive? Do they not have money?

From what I've seen, some of them shouldn't be driving. Cataract Squad indeed. If they had money, wouldn't they have bought the V8?

jkr2106 · January 2007

bumpy, you are hilarious

imidazol97 · January 2007

Ya'll need to come around here. We have many with the 4-holes on the hood. Sorry to dissapoint the myth but the oldsters around here tend to buy Camrys, Avalons, Accords, more than they buy lower level Lucernes.

Lots of spiffy chrome wheels and neat looking cars that make you look twice because they look foreign at first glance then you realize, "Oh, that's a BUICK."

I even heard one fellow call in Saturday that his Lucerne rode too rough. That's a switch from the stereotype...

grbeck · January 2007

I like the new CTS. The interior looks like a huge improvement over the current car. And the styling is a nice evolution of the current Art & Science look.

Overall, a big improvement over the current model, and it's nice to see a domestic auto maker sticking with a theme and improving upon it.

fintail · January 2007

So if the oldsters are buying the Japanese Buicks (and they are here too), who is buying the Lucernes? I think I have seen one 4-holer on the road, and lots of rentals. Not that I think it is all bad...they could be a used bargain, and I might try to steer my mom into one.

Chrome wheels don't make me think "foreign". A lot of cars look better without them (although the Lucerne isn't hurt by them).

louiswei · January 2007

it's nice to see a domestic auto maker sticking with a theme and improving upon it.

Definitely need to give Cadillac credit for that.

62vetteefp · January 2007

Yea, my geezer 49 year old neighbor traded in his SRX for one. Loves it. (hey maybe that is geezer age?)

Actually Buick gets lots of input that customers feel their new Buicks are too rough. After they got out of their Century and into the new LaCrosse there was a bunch. I can imagine the same happened from the LeSabre also.

62vetteefp · January 2007

I think, as has been discussed, it depends where you live. If you are in an area that buys american cars you will see lots of nice upper model Lucernes, etc. If you are from an area where they buy primarily imports then you will not see those upper models.

That is why one persons opinion does not make a fact. You need to use nationwide data to see the whole picture.

fintail · January 2007

Indeed, and as a significant amount of population is on either coast, more people will find these cars uncommon than common. I mean, I see more Ferraris and Lamborghinis around than I do 4 hole Lucernes. For most people, these cars aren't an everyday sight. Middle America sets few trends these days.

gsemike · January 2007

This board has gotten as lively as the old "what will it take to save GM board". I can't keep up.

Since when is the Lucerne a Caddy?

trimaster · January 2007

American preferences

On a side note, saw Dreamgirls over the weekend. Good movie. Cadillac was very prominent throught the early parts of the film.

lemko · January 2007

Shoot, a Lucerne CXS is definately on my car shopping A-list. It looks like the 2008 CTS definately made it as well. I hope it looks as good or even better in person!

bumpy · January 2007

Take a V8 Lucerne, swap around the badges and taillights, and toss in some extra geegaws and you get a DTS.

autoboy16 · January 2007

I just saw the insideline review of the 08CTS. My jaw still hurts from seeing that interior!! Good job caddy

!!

So technically, the bls is the first to use the new version of cadillac's new design theme and the CTS is second.... Suddenly, i don't feel as bad about the BLS as i can now look forward to the next BLS.

Cadillac CTS will come with AWD!! Meaning BLS may have it too!! TODAY IS A GOOD DAY IN AMERICA!! To bad we have to wait to (when will it be released again??) <-{

Anyone have pain supressant!!? My jaw is seriously killing me :P

-Cj

autoboy16 · January 2007

I found out yesterday that the DTS is FWD :surprise: . Very disappointing cadi... Now there is no reason AT ALL for no bls... Even the saab 9-3 is a promising drive. Wow if GM keeps up these great interior, they may sell me my next car. Next big GM steps are a fold flat 3rd row, no 4 speed transmissions, and A BLS...

-Cj

merc1 · January 2007

I just don't the continued talk about the Allante. The car sold well, but it is was a flop and it isn't just me considers it so. GM does also. Just because the car sold doesn't mean it was a success. The Jaguar X-Type sold well for a while too, so did the Lincoln LS. The market relevance of Allante was zilch.

M

bumpy · January 2007

Cadillac CTS will come with AWD!!

Now *that* is a good idea, especially if it's available with the manual since you can't get a G35 sedan that way. And if the AWD is beefy enough, it might make a 600hp CTS-V not completely useless after all.

british_rover · January 2007

That would be interesting as neither AMG, except for the SUVs and those don't count, or M offer their cars with AWD. I do'nt expect a AWD V series though.

autoboy16 · January 2007

my only main gripe (other than BLS) is the crappy stability control system. I hope thats being fixed ASAP and ready [and bugless] by CTS launch. 2008 Cts so far IMO beats the TL [

my favorite car in that segment :sick:

]. But not until the S.C. gets fixed.

-Cj :P

imidazol97 · January 2007

I suspect the guy was in a CXL with the V8 and 50 profile tires... The radio show guys didn't ask CX, CXL, CSX???

But who'd thunk 3 years ago someone would be saying their Buick is too rough, grin. Mine with 60 profile wheels and standard suspension is now too soft. I should have gotten the touring suspension but would have felt it was too terse...

imidazol97 · January 2007

The shape of the overall car in the daylight always makes me think "Toyota"... it hurts me to say that. The night view from rear makes me think I've come upon a Toyota. Around here the used bargain maybe the Camry's at the rental fleets. I'll drive around the airport tomorrow to see how many are sitting.

fintail · January 2007

I actually think it looks kind of European...it's not bad...really dull front end, but not bad as a package.

Loaded up, a DTS for less...more classic GM competing with itself.

62vetteefp · January 2007

Much like the camry and ES.

ggesq · January 2007

New CTS interior is a huge step forward. Let's wait and see what the boys over at Acura have to say in 08 when the TL is due for its redesign.

sls002 · January 2007

Your comment is somewhat muddled. However, as I see it both the Reatta and Allante were experiments. The Reatta was an experiment in a new production process as I am sure you know.

I think the Lincoln LS was a success, but Ford was unable to keep it up in what is a very competitive market.

As far as I am concerned, Mercedes has no relevance, as the nearest dealer is hundreds of miles away. Now if Chrysler dealers start handling Mercedes, then I might be interested.

fintail · January 2007

Indeed

And on that note, I would likely choose a competing GM product over the ES, if those were my only options. I drove an 07 ES for a day, and did not like it. Seemed like a car designed for a 5'6" woman rather than a 6'1" man.

62vetteefp · January 2007

Just a Camry with a slightly softer suspension. Well maybe a different interior and exterior.

autoboy16 · January 2007

I strongly agree. Actually I think the CTS will get scored down somewhat since its instrument cluster is kinda small... Compare it two the acura. ... :surprise:... MUCH SMALLER right?

A quick fix for this would be the heads-up display. Gm can remove it from the Grand Prix and put it in here with some tweaks to the system.

-Cj

sls002 · January 2007

My dealer, who used my 86 Electra T-type as a demenstrator before I bought it, said it was too hard riding. It was much firmer riding than the Park Avenue was, which I test drove and did not like.

sls002 · January 2007

Why do they have to take it out of the Grand Prix? Why not just put it into the CTS?

snakeweasel · January 2007

Well thats you, apparently people who buy Range Rovers (and other brands deemed unreliable) don't see it that way.

I am not saying its right or wrong, just that I cannot see doing it. The reason we don't have a Benz in our garage is because we were weary of the reliability of the brand.

Mr_Shiftright · January 2007

Not good enough. An automaker shouldn't experiment with the buyer's money.

lemonhater · January 2007

How odd, this thing reminds me of a modren version of the 74 cadillac devile my grandma owned.

merc1 · January 2007

It seems as though you're living in a GM built shell, either that or you're trying to come up with some sort of excuse for GM's various flops.

I remember a Buick salesman telling my Aunt that Reatta was comparabl to the 500SL of the day. I remember laughing in his face, he turned stoplight red.

As far as I am concerned, Mercedes has no relevance, as the nearest dealer is hundreds of miles away. Now if Chrysler dealers start handling Mercedes, then I might be interested.

I'm not surprised really.

M

merc1 · January 2007

I am not saying its right or wrong, just that I cannot see doing it. The reason we don't have a Benz in our garage is because we were weary of the reliability of the brand.

Oh I got what you're saying for sure. You're the type of buyer that MB (and others) must win over with improved reliability.

M

louiswei · January 2007

do some burnouts

Geez, do you know how much those summer tires cost...

autoboy16 · January 2007

Other than the V8 GTP Grand Prix, the G.P. Needs either a redesign w/RWD or an AXE... Otherwise, leave it in both. What was I thinking? :confuse:

-Cj

autoboy16 · January 2007

On of those Subscribers (motor trend, Consumer reports, car& Driver, ect. Can't recall which) rated the CTS as having the WORST stabillity control system. It lets the tail slide out and then activates after the darm is done. Any comment like that is not good for a brands image. Especially with it being the most important [upcoming] safety feature. Cadillac can get away with that one since a new model lis being intro'd.

Bmw isn't winning perple over with the driving experience with things like that. Neither is Infiniti's M35 or M45. The good news with them is they have an off switch for fun. Lexus... not so much. All are good sports sedans.

Quick question: The Lexus Gs350 {v6} makes more hp than the Gs400 {v8}... That is odd! The torque numbers are somewhat similar too! Glad caddy didn't do this with the STS!

-Cj

plekto · January 2007

Take a look at the video that's circulating of it in Germany on the Neubergring.

You just can't do that with the nanny-ware engaging at the drop of a pin like most cars now do. So it isn't liked by the morons at Consumer Reports and the rest. Big deal.

Is Cadillac's Image Dying and Does Anyone Care?

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