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John
If your leasing bank provides GAP insurance, they are paid off completely on the lease.. no need to prorate anything... So, basically.. the mileage won't matter.. No loss, so full refund on the extra mileage charges...
Just thought of that.... hmmm... Might be missing something, though..
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Prepaid mileage is deducted from the residual value which translates to increased monthly payments. And so, the cost of the additional mileage is amortized over the term of the lease.
Consider this scenario...
An adj. cap of $20,000; $12,000 residual (no prepaid mileage); 0.00200 MF; 36 month term. The payment amounts to $286.22. Now consider prepaid mileage in the amount of $1,350. Deducting this amount from the $12,000 residual results in a net residual of $10,650 which increases the payment from $286.22 to $321.02. This amounts to a $34.80 increase in the monthly payment.
Assume that after 20 months of this 36 month lease, the vehicle is stolen and never recovered. The ACV is, say, $14,000. The prepaid mileage lease has a lease balance of $14,973 while the normal mileage lease has a lease balance of $15,699. Yes, GAP does cover the difference in both cases and the lessee owes nothing in either case. However, over the preceding 20 months, the lesse paid an additional $34.80 each month and so loses $726 worth of prepaid mileage charges (the difference between the two lease balances or what amounts to the future value of the additional $34.80 monthly payment at an implicit interest rate of 4.825% for 20 months). So, there is no full refund of the prepaid mileage charge. Hindsight is always 20/20. The lessee would have been much better off not prepaying the additional mileage and having a $286.22 payment instead of a $321.02 payment during those 20 months previous to the time the car was stolen.
John
Except... BMW doesn't do it this way... Residuals aren't adjusted.
Honda Finance does do it that way, however... but then, I don't know their policy on refunds...
I like your math, though!
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"As long as we are into scenarios... here is another one..
If your leasing bank provides GAP insurance, they are paid off completely on the lease.. no need to prorate anything... So, basically.. the mileage won't matter.. No loss, so full refund on the extra mileage charges...
Just thought of that.... hmmm... Might be missing something, though.. "
which clearly references a bank lease and not a BMWFS lease or any finance captive lease for that matter. So, at this point, we're not talking about BMWFS. What I described is probably the general rule. Any departure from that is an exception (e.g., BMWFS).
Regards,
John
Any idea what the purpose of that is?
When you pull into service, they put your key in the key reader and it pulls up your records and enters your current mileage into the computer..
I bought an extended maintenance plan from a dealer out-of-state, and had to FedEx him my key... Because he had to have a key-read on the same date as the extended maintenance contract was sold.
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Is it possible to get a lease for lease than 10k? somewhere in the neighborhood or 5k? Also any idea if it would be a big difference in the monthly payment compared to a 10k lease? I know it would of course depend on the car. Thanks
You are correct... It's not a good deal, if you aren't using the miles.. better off buying..
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I am considering a new lease for a car that is approx $600/month for 36 months. I'd like to trade in another car i own that is worth approx $25k. The trade in value is greater than the total value of the lease payments. What is the best way to handle this when structuring a deal?
Any thoughts appreciated - Thanks.
It's usually not a good idea to make down payments (cash and/or trade) for reasons detailed below. But first, let's address your concerns. So, here are a few things to consider if you're intent on trading your old car...
Fund providers will not fund a lease unless the difference between the adjusted cap and the residual value is at least at some prescribed level determined by the fund provider. If your net trade value is used as a cap reduction, it may reduce this margin of difference below an acceptable level. A solution would be to use only a portion of the net trade as a cap reduction and take the balance in cash. Or, simply have the dealer write a check for the entire trade value and use it to purchase other durable goods or invest in non-depreciating assets.
Be advised that trade values for vehicles of like kind are not subject to tax in most states. However, cash cap reductions are subject to tax in all states.
Another solution is to consider a single pay option lease where your trade value can be used to pay, in part or in full, the single payment option. The single payment option lease is a lease where a lump some payment is made at lease inception in lieu of monthly payments. Most fund providers compute single pay options by discounting the money factor; computing a monthly payment; and then, multiply the payment by the term of the lease. This type of lease must be approached with a high degree of caution so, please, read your lease contract; especially the early termination clause. If your car is totaled or stolen and, never recovered, you should know exactly how your unearned depreciation credit, if any, will be calculated in such instances.
Now, here are reasons why it's not a good idea to make cap reductions (i.e.,down payments) on any vehicle...
A car is a depreciating asset and is purchased for consumption; and so, it's an expense and not an investment. No savvy investor would ever invest in stock
that they know will depreciate or lose value over time. Also, if the vehicle is lost or stolen and never recovered, the insurance carrier will only pay ACV (actual cash value or est. market value). If your lease balance exceeds the ACV (called the GAP), your GAP protection will cover the difference. This GAP narrows the larger the down payment. Large down payments can cause the ACV to exceed the lease balance (negative GAP). In such cases, you necessarily risk losing part or all of your cap reduction if your car is totaled or stolen but never recovered.
If the GAP equals or exceeds 0, then you owe nothing and receive nothing. However, you've lost your entire cap reduction or dp (down payment). The insurance company will pay the fund provider the ACV and the GAP carrier
will pay the fund provider the difference between the amount owed (lease or loan balance) and the ACV. And so, the fund provider doesn't lose; you do!
If GAP < 0, then you'll receive, from the fund provider, the difference between the ACV and the lease balance or loan balance less any transaction costs incurred by the fund provider. However, this may not be sufficient to cover your cap reduction or dp. In which case, you would lose the difference. The only thing the fund provider wants is the outstanding balance owed plus any transaction costs. You, of course, get whatever remains (the scraps so to speak).
One other thing... never buy GAP protection from a dealer if the fund provider doesn't offer it in their lease contract, or provides it at additional charge, because the cost is grossly inflated! Check with your insurance carrier and, whether you buy or lease, your carrier can attach a GAP rider to your existing insurance policy. The annual cost, as a rule of thumb, is roughly 0.10% of the vehicle's MSRP. So, if the MSRP is $25,000, then your annual GAP premium is roughly... 0.10% x $25,000 or about $25 annually.
Hope this helps.
John
I currently have a 2008 Mercury Milan lease that I got my hands on during the times of great lease incentives. I currently pay $229 a month and put $1,000 down at lease signing. My lease was for 12K miles a year, which I will exceed by about 5,000 miles when all is said and done.
My current budget limits me to $250 a month for a new car.
1.) I could buy the car for $12,800 from Ford, which I've been told is non-negotiable. The car will need new brakes, and tires (naturally, the car has upgraded wheels and so the tires are all kinds of expensive). Financing the car may be more per month than I'm currently paying to lease it.
2.) I could turn the car in, pay the mileage fees and re-lease. Even though I want another Ford product, they just can't seem to be able to quote me for a vehicle (besides a Focus, which I'm not interested in) for under $270 a month. It seems like Mazda has the best prices at this time. What are some other lease programs in my budget?
This is the first time I have leased. I can't say I'm excited to do it again, but I'm not sure I'll have a choice. I will definitely be going with 15K miles a year.
Opinions? What do you think is the best way to go?
Thanks for your help,
Jennifer
That said, the best lease deals seem to be on the 2011 Legacy.. In my area, they are offering a $220/mo. deal on 36mo/30K leases with ZERO due at signing... Figure another $20/mo. to bump up to 36mo/45k... and then tax.... and, you'll probably be in around $260/mo...
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1) Will Mazda (or any other company that offers lease options) finance me with a bankruptcy on my record even though I have made zero late payments since then?
2) What interest rate or "money factor" can I expect?
Thanks!
Mark in Wisconsin
I just came back from a Mercedes dealer and they offered me for an SUV ML350 with a sticker price a little be over of $54,000(I don't remember the exact amount), $549 a month(incl taxes), 10K per year and $2,500 out of pocket.
Is this sound as a good deal to you?
Thanks in advance,
The only options I am looking for on this car are the following (invoice prices I'm looking at):
Leather Pkg - $1,655
Prem. Pkg - $3720
Heated Steering _ $209
Heated Frt Seats - $698
Keyless entry _ $1,060
Heated rear seats - $577
Total invoice - $45,561
The dest fee of $850 I guess I sld pay upfront and not finance. I don't want to put any money down, (or should I?) Wld lease for 12,000 miles or 15,000 miles @ 36 months. What are the residuals and money factor on this vehicle, and I read that there is a $1,000 incentive. Also, does MBNA have maintenance free as BMW? I live in NY and would pay for taxes upfront and the registration etc. Is there anything else I am missing?
What is a good deal and monthly should I be looking? Thank you for you help on this. (I have lot of questions for you, sorry
"Voldermort" lol I should really be Dumbledore
.
So it's that time of the year again that I am shopping for a car, and my lease with BMW is over in 25 days...so I was looking at this car. Hoping that a dealer will give me a sweet deal that I can't refuse. LOL
The only options I am looking for on this car are the following (invoice prices I'm looking at):
Leather Pkg - $1,655
Prem. Pkg - $3720
Heated Steering _ $209
Heated Frt Seats - $698
Keyless entry _ $1,060
Heated rear seats - $577
Total invoice - $45,561
The dest fee of $850 I guess I sld pay upfront and not finance. I don't want to put any money down, (or should I?) Wld lease for 12,000 miles or 15,000 miles 36 months. What are the residuals and money factor on this vehicle, and I read that there is a $1,000 incentive. Also, does MBNA have maintenance free as BMW? I live in NY and would pay for taxes upfront and the registration etc. Is there anything else I am missing?
What is a good deal and monthly should I be looking? Thank you for you help on this. (I have lot of questions for you, sorry
"Voldermort" lol I should really be Dumbledore
.
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I am leasing a car from Mass and registering it in NJ. I have ALL of the paperwork from the dealer to complete the registration & titling process, including the Power of Attorney from the Lessor . . so far so good.
Here's the problem . . New Jersey DMV doesn't know how to calculate the sales tax on the lease and tried to charge me sales tax on the full purchase price/cap cost.
I have researched this pretty carefully. The sales tax on a Lease, in New Jersey, is due upfront (accelerated sales tax); the sales tax is essentially based on the "sum of the payments method" (with adjustments where required) and the term of the lease.
Simple Example: 30 Month Lease with zero at signing, no trade, rebates etc and a $400 per Month Lease payment should result in upfront sales tax of $840 ($400/Month X 30 Months X 7% NJ Tax Rate). DMV tried to charge me 7% of $35,000 ($2,450).
In most cases, I guess Motor Vehicle staff is dealing with leases from in-state dealers who have already Tax Stamped the title . . . in which case they simply accept what has been stamped and process the registration and title.
So . . does anyone else have experience in registering an out of state leased vehicle in New Jersey and what is the secret to getting the DMV people to correctly calculate and accept my payment of the sales tax?
Thanks in advance!
Based on the information provided in the document
Streamlined Sales and Use Tax Law: Motor Vehicle Leasing Issues
issued by the NJ Treasury Dept- Division of Taxation, the following excerpts pertinent to your situation may apply
2. A lease contract with a New York lessee (sales tax accelerated and paid at lease inception), lessee relocates to New Jersey on or after 10/1/05. What amount of tax is due if any?
New York law requires sales tax on a motor vehicle lease to be paid as if the total payments due had been paid at the time of the first lease payment. If the lease was entered into on or after 10/1/05, since tax was legally due and paid to New York with no right to a refund, and the tax in both states is imposed on the lessee, New Jersey’s reciprocity provisions will apply. Thus, although sales tax is due in New Jersey once the primary property location is here, the lessee may claim a credit for the tax paid to New York. Since the New York tax rate exceeds 7%, no additional tax will be due. The Division does not have a specific form to claim credit for taxes paid to another state. When the vehicle is registered in New Jersey, the lessee will have to provide the New Jersey Motor Vehicle Commission with proof of tax paid to the original state. No additional tax should be collected.
3. Lessee relocates to New Jersey from a state where tax is paid monthly on the lease payment, is tax now calculated on the remaining term of the lease?
Yes. When leased property is relocated into New Jersey, the lease is subject to tax based on the remaining lease payments. If the lease was entered into prior to 10/1/05, the prior law applies and tax is due up front from the lessor, based on the total of the lease payments remaining. If the lease was entered into on or after 10/1/05, the new law applies and New
Jersey tax must be collected from the lessee, based on the remaining lease payments, but it may be remitted with each periodic payment. (For leased property moving into New Jersey, the tax payment is not accelerated because the provision in the law regarding accelerating the tax payment is only applicable when the leased property is “delivered to the lessee in this state.”)
In your case, you simply leased the vehicle in Mass and are registering it in NJ. Mass levies and collects taxes on the payment streams as they are received. To reiterate, the above provision in NJ provides that
“For leased property moving into New Jersey, the tax payment is not accelerated because the provision in the law regarding accelerating the tax payment is only applicable when the leased property is “delivered to the lessee in this state.”
Because the lease originated in Mass and the vehicle was delivered to you in Mass, according to the above language, it seems plausible that acceleration of tax is not applicable in your situation. The bet here is that you’re tax liability in NJ is limited to 7% tax levied on each payment.
More than likely, you were speaking with a clerk at a local DMV office. I suggest raising this issue with the NJ Division of Sales Tax
http://www.state.nj.us/treasury/taxation/
Tel.: 609-292-6400
Hope this helps.
John
autoleasegeek@zoominternet.net
I plan to call Taxation again on Tuesday to get further assistance. I will follow-up here with info once resolved.
BTW, the legal language cited in your post I believe relates to leases already initiated in another state and then transferred here . . the accelerated sales tax applies in my case because the lease is being initiated in New Jersey which requires upfront payment. That was confirmed with Division of Taxation Rep who was very cordial and well informed on the topic.
Check out this excerpt from the Division of Taxation website, in particular the last sentence:
"20. What is the lessor’s responsibility for collecting tax on lease payments for property that was subject to a lease that originated outside New Jersey but that is subsequently brought into New Jersey for use in the state? What if the lessor had since assigned the lease to a finance company?
When leased property is brought into New Jersey, sales tax is due on each of the remaining periodic payments for the term that the property remains in New Jersey. If the original lessor assigned the lease to a finance company, then the finance company is the lessor and is the party responsible for collecting the tax from the lessee and remitting it to the State. (This treatment is substantially the same as under prior law. Prior to 10/1/05, when leased property was moved into New Jersey, the lessor was responsible for remitting tax based on the remaining term of the lease; however, the tax payment was accelerated, whereas under the new law, it is remitted with each payment.)A lessor must obtain a New Jersey Motor Vehicle Identification Number, and obtain and use a New Jersey Sales Tax Satisfied Stamp in order to lease, title, or register a vehicle in New Jersey (this has always been the case).
When a vehicle comes into New Jersey from out of State, the title must be stamped indicating the amount of tax due on the remaining payments, which must be collected by the lessor from the lessee and remitted directly to the Division on the tax return covering the period in which the leased property entered this State. If an out of state title is presented without a New Jersey Tax Satisfied Stamp, in order to process the paperwork, the MVC is required to collect the sales tax in full, based on the lessee’s remaining lease payments (so the lessee will have to provide such information)."
The last sentence really explains exactly what DMV should do in my case . . . which is to total-up the lease payments and apply the tax rate . . . but there is simply no convincing them - lol.
apologies for the long posts folks . . . someday someone else will need this info and will be glad to find it all in one place . . .
I'm anxious to see how your situation gets resolved.
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If the lease originated in MA and the vehicle first registered there and then later brought into New Jersey, then the tax comes out monthly.
As a side note, I attempted to have the dealer issue a Temp MA registration so that I could pick up the vehicle, pay MA sales tax . .. and then bring the vehicle into New Jersey to register here and pay the difference in the sales tax rates . . . no can do . . . must be a resident of MA in order to get Temporary Registration . .
Apparently, the NJ Dept of Taxation needs to clean-up their language. Case in point...
"For leased property moving into New Jersey, the tax payment is not accelerated because the provision in the law regarding accelerating the tax payment is only applicable when the leased property is “delivered to the lessee in this state.”
I'm not sure what they mean by moving into New Jersey. That needs clarification. Also, "accelerating tax payment is only applicable when the leased property is delivered to the lessee in this state" suggests to me that it doesn't matter whether one is or isn't a resident of NJ as it refers to the property; not the individual. And, yes, the language does suggest that if the vehicle was originally registered in Mass and delivered in Mass, then you would not be subjected to accelerated tax in NJ. But, again, moving into NJ needs clarification.
Also, check this out. According to the NJ Dept of Taxation...
Tax Base (N.J.S.A. 54:32B-7(d))
Agreements for a term of six months or less: The tax base for these short-term rentals and leases is the amount of the periodic payment, i.e. the amount of the rent due. These short term agreements will be treated the same as “rentals” under the prior law.)
Agreements for a term of more than six months: The lessee pays the sales tax to the lessor either on the original purchase price of the leased property or on the total of the periodic payments required under the lease agreement. (Whether the tax will be calculated on the purchase price or the total of the periodic payments is negotiable between lessor and lessee.)
John
I will be very happy to pay all of the sales tax due upfront and register the vehicle!
I would even be happy to go to the taxation office and pay the sales tax directly to them and have them apply a "Sales Tax Satisfied Stamp" to the tiltle before going back to Motor Vehicle Office . . . but I doubt this is an option.
Before going back to DMV this morning, I called the NJ Division of Taxation to alert them that DMV would be calling them (Taxation Office) today for instruction on my situation.
The Division of Taxation people were wonderful! The gentleman I spoke to took down my information and offered to call ahead before my arrival at the DMV office so that they would be ready when I arrived.
Sure enough, DMV was ready and expecting me when I arrived and I did not have to wait in any of the long lines that I saw. It took about 10-15 minutes and a little tinkering with their software to be able to correctly enter the "Tax Base $" in the "Net Sale Price" field but once they figured it out, voila, home free.
The main thing you will need to register a vehicle in NJ, that has been leased from an out-of-state dealership, is a detailed worksheet breakdown, on the Dealership's letterhead, showing how the sales tax was estimated/calculated. I would also recommend calling the Taxation Division before going to the local Motor Vehicle Office in order to lay the groundwork.
Apparently this is not something they routinely deal with so it will require a little extra time, patience and effort.
Also remember that, in addition to the documents normally needed to register a vehicle, you will need Power of Attorney from the Leasing Company/Lessor in order to sign and complete the paperwork on their behalf, as they are the "Owner" of the vehicle and listed as such on the registration and title work.
DMV/Doc/Bank Acq I know are all upfront and will come out of my down payment. Just wondering
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
Its semantics no?
It COULD be that Honda Finance demands it up front. That part I can't answer. But I'm not sure why that should be written in stone. I could have a faulty memory, but it seems to me I've even been asked before if I wanted to pay up front or at the end.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
And yes, you will only make a total of 36 payments. The last one is due 30 days before the actual end of the lease. The only thing you pay at lease end is the lease termination fee, and for any damages or over mileage.
You can always roll the first months payment, along with the DMV/Doc/Acquisition fee into the lease, which will obviously increase your payments somewhat. Your choice.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
Do dealers offer leases with such low mileage and, if they don't, can I make a case at the dealership that-- all else equal-- the car I return to them will have a lot less mileage than the average lease?
Thx for any help!
And the dealer has no idea if the car will come back to his store. And even if you turn it back in to him, he has to buy it from the leasing company who will probably charge him more because of the low miles. So it's no real advantage to him.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
Anyone?
Dealerships do not have the authority to negotiate excess mileage charges. The excess mileage rate structure is established by the fund provider and is non-negotiable. However, excess wear/tear charges are negotiable.
Hope this helps.
John
AllRoadAnger
What would be a good negotiated price? (And do the lease calculations use the lower negotiated "sales" price or the retail price?)
money factor?
residual value?
Does anyone know what special deals or programs are available on Rogue leases?
Thanks for the help and advice.
Nissan Rogue Lease Questions
regards,
kyfdx
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Thanks in advance!