Subaru Forester (up to 2005)

paisan · January 2002

Every time I see a Trooper reviewed it starts out saying "It's a 10 year old design, with minor updates" To me that is saying how good the design is, but most of them rip on any car that is more than 3 or 4 years old in design even if that design works. Oh well what can you do.

-mike

yellowdr · January 2002

Same was said in recent review of the S-10. It's been around forever, loyal customers, and BEST MPG of all trucks tested.
The truck tested tops in the slalom and equal to anything off road but they described the styling as "old" and they said that they can't wait for the 2003 design that will look more like a V8 Dodge.

They changed the traditional' jeep Cherokee for the Liberty and, in my opinion, didn't add anything to the vehicle that matters.

Go figure??

lark6 · January 2002

Isn't it funny how styling has apparently become a criterion of success for light duty trucks and SUVs? I'm under 40 but I can still remember a time when SUVs were driven mostly by architects, contractors, surveyors and nature show hosts. Although my dad is on his 6th or 7th Chevy 1/2-ton pickup - each with increasing levels of content - I have a hard time accepting pickups with interiors that can't be hosed out.

As for the motoring press and their five-year cycles, I'd hate to be married to one.

Ed

hsilva · January 2002

I don't know if this has been covered anywhere, but I have had to have my bug guard replaced 3 times since April, when I bought my 2001 ForesterS. Has anyone else had any problems with this. It was dealer installed and is made by Subaru for the Forester. It just does not seem to hold up. The last one split down the middle and broke off when I closed the hood after checking the oil.
The vehicle is garaged and well maintained. I just don't know what the problem is.
Any ideas?

grahampeters · January 2002

G'day

There are some designs which have a very long life because of the inate funcionality or attractiveness of them. Historically we can think of designs such as

Ford model T
VW Beetle
Porsche 911
Range Rover mk I

These designs were special. Over time, they were refined but not substantially changed. They don't happpen along too often. Each of them were in a niche where there was not really anything directly equivalent.

Whilst the Forester is unusual, it now has several close competitors. It shouldn't be surprising to find that it's competitive advantage is fading. I will be fascinated to see what happens with the new model.

I was musing on the topic of good design last night when looking at a site devoted to the C130 Hercules. Designed in the late 40's / early 50's, it has been in continuous production since 1956 with development still continuing. It is still the transport workhorse of most Western Airforces.

Other good designs that spring to mind include a lot of Volvos, Levi 501 jeans... Think of a few for yorself and try to figure what makes them last and last.

Cheers

Graham

rsholland · January 2002

Good design is timeless. Always has been. Always will be.

Bob

tincup47 · January 2002

You could also include the Original Land Rover, still soldiering on as the Defender. I do think that the Automotive world except for a few vehicles that can be considered brand icons is having to accelerate model changes and updates to keep the public interested and sales up. We (in the U.S. at least) seem to need improvements at an ever increasing pace. I think an example of this is the American fascination with cupholders. Twenty years ago you could only get the cheap ones that clipped into th window track, today that seems to be a major hot button. The Discovery Series II finally has cupholders that can hold a large drink, Land Rover NA has been deluged with requests for these for people that have older Discoverys. The UK was totally unprepared for this and are astounded at the rate the U.S. consumer is clamoring for them.

grahampeters · January 2002

G'day

Cupholders are one of those wierd things which the rest of the world does not understand about Americans. I can't really get that excited about them as I don't usually drink in the car.

In many countries, eating or drinking in a moving vehicle is illegal. Drive-ins have virtually disappeared from the rest of the world and hence the need to keep drinks stable and out of the way of bouncing teenage limbs does not exist elsewhere.

The prime purpose of cupholders, so far as I understand it, is to provide something for my children to operate with their toes, for entertainment whilst waiting for their mother.

I have to say that cupholders are not my idea of good design.

Cheers

Graham

paisan · January 2002

Believe it or not, most State in the US it is also illegal to "have an open beverage" in a vehicle which includes soda, beer, etc. etc. Basically because when the first laws prohibiting drinking and driving came out, people would simply pour their beer into soda cans and go on their merry way.

-mike

storyteller · January 2002

You make an intelligent point, Graham, about great designs that endured a long time. But your examples are all from a different period. When the VW Bug was popular, there were about four or five things called "Aspirin" on the shelves. I recently counted 38 types of Aspirin (or equivalent medications) in my grocery store. The consumer culture has evolved so that people have different expectations. Consumers now want what they want . . . exactly what they want.

kenm6 · January 2002

I jusy found out the front differential gear oil dip stick of my 2002+ popped out, oil were all over the places. Apparently the stick was never in place since the car was new. The car started to smell like something burning while driving. I put in about 1/2 quart oil to bring it back up to level. The manual indicated it would take 1.3 quart of oil. It lost almost half of its capacity. My question is how do I know whether the gear is damage or not. The car still running great. Don't feel anything different. Can anyone tell me something? I am kind of worry. Thanks.
-Ken

nygreg · January 2002

I installed the bug deflector on my OB in early summer. No problems as of yet. A collegue has a Forester with the deflector and has no problems that I know of. Must be some big bugs you are hitting.

sorry I can't help here.

Graham - we need to drive around with coffee cups to give our right hand something to do since most Americans don't drive sticks.

.....unless your of Italian descent, then we use the right hand when talking (right Paisan?)

Greg

purduealum91 · January 2002

I am not trying to pick a fight or put the Forester down. I sure hope there is a major redesign coming. If I were buying today, I would have to give the 02 CRV a serious consideration. Its not over priced and it has more room. I do like Subarus awd better though. I dont care what honda says.

cschaaf · January 2002

Has anyone added a remote starter to their Forester? I have an '02.

Any suggestions? Can I do this myself? How do they work? (Looked on HowStuffWorks.com, no info there)

Thanks

tidester · January 2002

You're not likely to find the specific information you want just by browsing on howstuffworks.com.

Usually you would post your question in an appropriate forum and, if you're lucky, someone will volunteer an answer or relevant information.

tidester
Host
SUVs

illinoiscentra · January 2002

If Honda CR-V's are going for MSRP++, I would call them overpriced.

hsilva · January 2002

Thanks for responding Greg. I had the oil changed today and they replaced the bug guard (under warranty of course). I wish it WERE big bugs hitting it. Then at least there would be a reason for it breaking. But in New England the bugs just don't get big enough (for which I am truly grateful). So I guess if this keeps up I'll just have to let Subaru replace my bug guard on a quarterly basis. At least it will always look new!

ateixeira · January 2002

The Forester still holds its own, even in comparos. In the last C&D test it finished in the top half, and the editors don't have to pay for gas or repairs on the Escape and Tribute that won that comparo.

Also, CR still rates it as the 2nd best mini SUV, almost tied with the top RAV4.

Finally, we just posted a link to an owner loyalty study that showed the Forester enjoyed the most loyal owners. For a tiny niche manufacturer, that is amazing.

Yes, 5 model years is a long time, but the new one is basically ready and behind curtains for us to see. The competition may have caught up, but the 5 year old is still competitive. Imagine how good the new one could be!

Ken: my guess is you'd already know if there were a big problem. You could have the oil drained and refilled again, since the old stuff might haved sloshed around and gotten foamy. If so, check the drain plug, which has a magnet on it. If there are metal shavings on it, buy an extended warranty!

CR-V improved a lot with the redesign, but remember, it has to compete with the next Forester for most of its life.

One measure of success is the fact that the Forester has never relied on rebates to sell, not once. Not bad.

-juice

dhdunn · January 2002

Folks, I've gone through the posts, and read this and that on the 2003 Forester. I'm very close to buying a 2002, and want to know if people think I should wait for the 2003. Juice, I believe you suggested something like this in one of your emails. The advantage to that is a new design, of course. The disadvantage is a higher price undoubtedly, on the 2003. Through all the discussions about the "brat-type" Forester, does anyone have a good idea what it's going to be like? Wouldn't they show this at the Automotive show? If anyone has any ideas/pictures/whatever, please let me know either here or at dhdunn@yahoo.com. Thanks y'all!!

d

kens · January 2002

d,

Unfortunately, there's very little out on the 2003 Forester. I've seen one artist's sketch, but it looked pretty similar to the one we have now.

How long can you wait? Even if the 2003 Forester debuts at an auto show, it won't be until late summer/early fall until they being showing up at dealerships.

Ken

armac13 · January 2002

The 2003 Forester apparently will be unveiled at the Toronto Auto Show in February. Please use the following link:

http://www.autoshow.ca/exhibitors/subaru.htm

You've got about 34 days to wait. :-)

Ross

jimmyj1945 · January 2002

I am also looking at the forester and trying to decide between the 2002/2003. Even though we will not see one for quite awhile, when it is shown at the Auto Show next month, I believe there will be enough information for me to know if I should go with the 2002 or wait for the 2003.

Jim

dhdunn · January 2002

Folks, thanks to your feedback, i was able to find this information. But I'm not sure of the source (perhaps some of you are familiar with Mag-X??). In any case, here's a link:

http://mag-x.com/scoop/forester0109/index.html

armac13 · January 2002

That picture has been around for quite a while and the general consensus is that it is NOT the new Forester. Mag-X is, I believe, a Japanese mag.

Ross

mrluther · January 2002

Hello to all!! This may be a funky question...does anyone notice that this car makes a loud click or pop after you shift? My mechanic was not very helpful and he is a subaru master mechanic and owner himself. Any info would be welcome>>>

dan715 · January 2002

My friend has a 1999 Forester and the tail lights have the

orange
red
clear

Is there and where that sells tail lights that go

red
red
clear

or

clear
red
clear

Thanks, Dan

rictom · January 2002

All: I've been reading posts and asking questions. We've been trying to decide between the crv or forester. Today we had the opportunity to drive a 2002 crv. We were impressed with the improved pickup. We drove a 2001 a few weeks ago and could really tell the difference. We also liked the fact that the rear 60/40 seats split, could be folded down and tumbled forward against the front seats, and that the rear seats could be slid forward, (but couldn't be tumbled forward from that position)
This car would be primarily for my wife so her opinion was the one that mattered most. The gearshift coming out of the dash was unusual but didn't put her off. She liked many things about the CRV, as she did the 2001. We decided to zip over to the subaru dealer and test drive the 2002 forester again while the crv was fresh in our minds.
Bear in mind I was familiar with the specs and safety options on both and I liked a couple of the extra safety features the Subaru had like the daytime running lights and foglights and the high crash test scores, but these things didn't make much difference to my wife. She wanted a little more zip than her 87 civic, good visibility, and room for the dogs.
She definitely liked the look and extra zip of the CRV but when she got in the Forester again, about 2 minutes into the drive she said, I want the Subaru. Case closed.
So while we'll be making a deal over the next few days I'd like to know which online subaru accessories place anyone would recommend. I'm looking at a few things and I remember the extra armrest extension being a popular item, so I think I'll start there.
Thanks, looking forward to being a Soob part-owner soon.

masan · January 2002

John--

Thanks for the helpful input on going from a Toyota to a Subaru. Glad to hear that your Forester is still going strong at 88,000! No headgasket problems or CEL's? :-}

I'm still researching. I might wait until March when the annual April auto issue of CR will be out. By that time, we should also know more about the 2003 Forester.

What I'd really like to do is to rent each vehicle I'm considering for a day.

Graham--

Cupholders are very important to me. I like to sip on hot tea (in an insulated mug) while commuting to work in the morning. Later in the day, I usually go through a drive-through to get a soft drink or iced tea. I spend a lot of time in my car!

cyberpirate · January 2002

jei · January 2002

Renting for a day is a great idea. You may have to search for a rental company with Foresters and similar vehicles or see if a nearby dealer has a no-strings-attached rental program. You get to discover the character & personality of each car.

I only had the CEL come on once early on - the fuel cap. 6 - 8 clicks & no problem since. I don't expect head gasket trouble until after 200,000 miles. Our '92 Legacy wagon is over 200K. It's still in pretty good shape, although it does use/leak some oil. The only big repair was an automatic trans rebuild at 176K, Probabaly due to neglect. On the Forester, I'm changing trans fluid religiously every 30K.

The 2003 Forester is slated to debut at the Toronto Auto Show in late February. Links are about 50 posts back in this board. I'm planning to check it out at the New York show in March, but don't have plans to replace my '99 any time soon. Still happy with the "old" design. Keep us posted!

John

dhdunn · January 2002

Rictom, we have friends who have a CRV, and they love it. But they obviously didn't look at the safety data out there. i think you're making the right decision, because the Forester did better in the collision tests. For me, with 2 kiddos, that's really important, and when we started looking into this class of vehicle, I stopped considering the CRV when I saw the crash test data (http://www.iihs.org/default.htm). That may be a bit narrow minded on my part, but if i can get a safer vehicle, and probably for less money (is the CRV less expensive?), then why not?

d

Nancy · January 2002

Can I use generic ski rack on my Forester or do I need a Subaru one? Also, re: the bug deflector- mine too broke in half on my way back from NJ to Syracuse. They did replace it under warranty and said they "changed" the deflector at the end of the summer because too many of them were breaking. Hopefully, this one will hold up for the duration.

c_hunter · January 2002

Rick: I think you and your wife made a good choice! The new CRV is nice, and much improved over the old model. However, the Forester drives and handles much better than either CRV. The Forester is just a great vehicle all the way around. Congratulations on your choice.

Recently, I have bought accesories from Thomason Subaru in Oregon (www.subaru-parts.com) and Liberty Subaru in New Jersey (www.newsubaru.com). They both discount prices around 20%, as do many other dealerships with online sales. I have been happy with the service in each case. My advice is to pick someplace that is close to you, which will minimize shipping time. When I've ordered from Liberty Subaru, standard UPS gets the shipment to Virginia in 2 days.

Nancy: the Subaru accessory racks (not the original factory racks) are made by Yakima, so you can always just buy them from Yakima if you want (it may be cheaper that way). Thule also makes a rack system that will attach to the Forester's side rails. You can also buy adapter clips that will attach Yakima ski clamps to the standard factory crossbars.

Craig

rictom · January 2002

Thanks for your feedback. I am glad my wife decided on the Forester. I liked all the safety features and don't feel I'm sacrificing anything in the way of performance and drivability. The 2001 crash tests on the CRV are disappointing, but they haven't tested the 2002 yet and maybe they'll be better.
As for accessories I've heard many people say they liked that extra armrest/storage combo. Is that something you purchased?
At the moment I have a quote for an 2002 L for $19,866 including keyless remote. That sounds good to me, could I get a quick yay or nay from all who would like to?
I'm waiting to hear from my local dealer to see what he can do. With any luck we'll have a deal early this week.
Thanks again
Rictom

mckeown · January 2002

Mrluther, I now own a 2002 MT and have told the dealer about the "popping" or mild backfire when shifting. Had to take Rep for a ride to demonstrate it as mechanics said they could not reproduce, their consensus, It's normal, live with it. It's now 4 months old, 10K miles and still does it, guess we have to live with it.

C_Hunter, thanks for info on Liberty Subaru here in NJ, that is where I have purchased 4 Subaru's since '82 and get all my parts (15 mile away), BUT at the parts counter they never once mentioned about their "online" parts & discounts. Guess if you don't ask, sometimes you never know.

c_hunter · January 2002

That price sounds exactly like the invoice price Edmunds shows for an auto-trans L model with keyless entry ($19750+116). If so, then that's a good deal! Most dealers will get within $100 of invoice on these cars.

Craig

c_hunter · January 2002

If my memory serves me, people on this forum have mentioned that the accessory tailpipe cover alleviated this noise. So, out of curiousity, do either of you guys have the tailpipe cover installed?

Craig

ateixeira · January 2002

rictom: if that's an automatic, the price is good. I have and recommend the armrest extension, because it's the same height as the door arm rest.

I can't wait to see the 2003. I don't think the price will go up too much, because there is a lot more competition out there now. The pressure is on. I see 3 possibly scenarios:

1. The Forester moves to a Legacy platform, and gets the rear multilink suspension and a lot more room with the longer wheelbase. The base engine gets VVT and a 5hp boost, plus a turbo option is offered. Price goes up $1000 across the board, and yours truly will be in line the buy the first one for my wife.

2. The 2003 gets a hybrid Impreza/Legacy chassis, with a longer wheelbase or the multilink rear suspension. Room is a little better, and the base engine remains 165hp, plus we have to wait an extra year for the turbo. I would wait for the turbo, and consider it.

3. Very little change. 0.5" wheelbase stretch, similar to the Impreza, struts all around, same engine. I would need something bigger, so I'd probably pass on it.

I hope #1 holds true, but we'll probably get #2.

-juice

goldencouple1 · January 2002

We just put a quick 150 miles round trip on our 2002 L MT yesterday -- Interstate, city stop-and-go, and rural roads in the Rio Grande Valley (acres and acres of turned brown fields waiting for chilies). "Yuki"(yoooki) the 2002 Forester was a dream: smooth, quick, comfortable, and nimble. When I saw the odometer I didn't believe the trip had been as long as it was.

The weather was perfect, 60 degrees F in the border country, and the car was fantastic.

ateixeira · January 2002

Sounds like fun.

I have a cute story, my daughter prefers our Forester over our 626, so when we ask her which one she wants to go in, she always says "Daddy's Car. Mommy's car is broken".

Pretty funny. The 626 has been in the shop 3 times in the last year and a half or so.

-juice

mckeown · January 2002

C_Hunter, No I do not have a tailpipe Ext. If it would Stop-the-Pop, I will purchase one. Thanks.

danjaecks · January 2002

Someone mentioned problems with the front bug screen breaking. I noticed on mine that it's in the way when lifting the hood. If you aren't real careful you end up lifting the hood by the plastic bug guard. Perhaps that is what breaks them as the hood is quite heavy.?

ateixeira · January 2002

How 'bout an aluminum hood for 2003, a la WRX?

I'd like to see struts to hold up the hood, too.

-juice

rsholland · January 2002

I think we'll see more aluminum hoods (and roofs) from Subaru. They indicated this would occur a while back.

Bob

ateixeira · January 2002

They have to control weight. It's been sneaking up on them, about 150 lbs per redesign. Eventually the 2.5l engine will no longer feel peppy enough.

-juice

rsholland · January 2002

want to lower the center of gravity (even more). Using aluminum up top, allows them to do that.

Bob

jimmyj1945 · January 2002

for number 1. "The Forester moves to a Legacy platform, and gets the rear multilink suspension and a lot more room with the longer wheelbase. The base engine gets VVT and a 5hp boost, plus a turbo option is offered. Price goes up $1000 across the board, and yours truly will be in line the buy the first one for my wife." and I'll be second in line. Even better, put in the H-6.

Jim

ateixeira · January 2002

Aluminum hoods are a start. I think that Mag-x link mentioned the roof rack would be more integrated. I guess it could be closer to the roof. Ever seen the one on the Expedition?

-juice

armac13 · January 2002

is NOT necessarily better. If the 2001 Forester had been more than an inch or two longer, I would not even have considered it. I got the Forester because it was Impreza sized on the outside with much more room on the inside. The Legacy line was just too big to realistically contemplate. Changing the rear suspension would give additional room while still keeping it in the same class. I also do not need 250 hp. 165-175 is plenty for me, thank you.

Ross

rsholland · January 2002

it's what you make of it.

The Ford Escape is actually shorter than the Forester, yet is much roomier inside. The main reason for this is that the Escape has a wheelbase that's about 4" longer than that of the Forester, and it also has less front overhang.

Bob

Subaru Forester (up to 2005)

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