Are you a current Michigan-based car shopper? A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/2 for details.
Bargain "Classics"--$12,000 or Less and 20 Years or Older
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Austin-Healey Sprite/MG Midget
BMW 1600/2002
Datsun 1600
Fiat 124 Spider
MGB/MGB-GT
Porsche 914-4
Saab Sonett
Sunbeam Alpine
Triumph Spitfire
Triumph GT6
Volvo 1800
Among the "dark horses" you could include:
Alfa Romeo Berlina 1750/2000
Alfa Romeo Alfetta GT/Alfetta Sedan
BMW Bavaria
BMW 320i
BMW 630 CSi
Fiat 850 Spider
Fiat X1/9
Jensen-Healey/Jensen GT
Lotus Cortina Mk2
Porsche 924
Triumph TR7
Triumph TR8 Coupe
OK, none are 'classics', but I'd advise a 633 or 635CSi over a 630, a 944 over any 924, most newer Saabs over the Sonnet, ANY BMW over the 320i (including the equally underpowered 84-85 318i). Scary in general. Of course, a nasty 450SL can be had for $5-10k easily as well......
I agree that both the 633 and 635 are better than the 630 CSi, but they are too new. Personally, I wouldn't buy any 6-series coupe. I would rather purchase a 2800CS or a 3.0 CS. Of course these cars are probably closer to $10,000. Actually, I think you'd have trouble finding a decent 6-series for less than $5,000, so I withdraw this one from my list.
You're right about the 924 too. The 944 is definitely superior. Unlike the 6-series, I would definitely consider getting a 944. A friend of mine and I drove down to the Monterey Historics last year in one and its a great car. But the Boxster and new 911 are better cars also. Maybe we should incude them.
I kind of like Saab Sonetts. While I agree that newer Saabs are better cars, they are definitely not sports cars.
I really think that all early 3-series coupes are pretty much the same (with the obvious exception of the M3)
I think a decent 450SL would be a lot closer to $10,000 than $5,000.
The second list of "dark horses" I provided are definitely not the best. They are interesting but flawed in terms of design, engineering, styling and/or performance.
I don't think you can go wrong with the cars on the first list. The Alfa Romeo being the best of course.
I think they are, personally, although not all will agree with me. At least with the 320i, you can modify them and make a decent car out of them (at some expense) but a 924 and a Saab Sonett are pretty hopeless IMO. I'd certainly avoid them at any price. Also the BMW Bavaria, which is just a sink hole for money you will never get back, and a TR7, which is a difficult car to get running well (bad cylinder head design), and will also never be worth very much.
All the other cars on the list are at least workable if not downright enjoyable. Some are better than others (obviously, a Fiat 850 Spider is borderline, but it's cheap and fun and can be made to run well), and some on the list will never appreciate in value. But in general, it's a great list of affordable and interesting cars.
Same goes for the Subaru FF-1. A bad small car.
Actually I liked the 600 even though it was absurd. My friend Al was a great motorcycle mechanic and we breathed on the little 600 a bit, with some head work and better carburation, and it really could move along, even in the Colorado altitude!
72 Porsche 914 1.7 $6500 (owner says show condition)
75 MGB $4000 (owner says very clean)
77 Fiat 124 $6500 (looks extremely clean)
I'd rather save some money and buy a new tv, but the Porsche seems a little more interesting than the rest. Someone help me save some time. Thoughts?
The 1.7L 914 is a bit of a dog. They handle well, actually, they were better in the twisties than contemporary 911s when driven by the average Joe...
But they really are doggy. A proper 4-cyl Porsche would be a 356/912.
MGBs are cheap and easy to fix, parts are plentiful and cheap and they are wonderful little cars.
Bill
The Fiat is a fun car, but ghulet said it: that is ALOT of money for it.
I've never heard good things about a 914.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
The 124 is the most comfortable of the three cars by far and the best riding, but also the most fussy. Good cruising car, though.
The 914 in the 1.7 liter is not all that good a performer (adequate) but will wipe the other cars in handling and braking. Best 914 is the 2.0 liter.
I'd hesitate to recommend a 912 because engine rebuilds are so very expensive, worth more than the entire car in fact. You can't really find a decent 356 for under $10K anymore that doesn't have "needs" and they are expensive cars to restore.
So really given your budget, the MGB sounds best. You will have to live with little rain leaks through the top, a bit of a dog cart ride over bumps and if you don't get overdrive, the MGB gets very busy in the engine compartment at 70 mph+.
If you found a Fiat 124 with a realistic price and in good shape, I'd give that car a second look as well.
A 912 would be a great buy IF and ONLY IF someone who is COMPETENT with the 1600 Porsche engines looks it over before you buy it.
Also, its' important to know that these engines require oil changes AS WELL AS Valve adjustments/clearance checks at the same time.
Bill
Of course, if you found a 912 with a *documented* professional rebuild, it might be worth the price, but if the engine is a mystery engine you'd have to get the car very cheap, since the engine rebuilt is worth more than the entire automobile itself.
At least with a 356 if you pay wholesale and you have to eat an engine, you can still come out okay.
One of my 356s.. One I do not drive regularly is one that just made it down to FL. A 1957 Super speedster. A pretty weird one too.. Its' a Stock, late '57 (T2) but.. when I first got it.. It had alloy hubcaps on it. Weird, eh? It isn't a GT (God I wish!) tho. Anyhoo... the motor is the original, and needed a rebuild, and an align-bore..etc.
Well, I WILL rebuild it someday, its' on a stand right now. I am "preserving" it. So I told my 356 guy up in NJ where I lived at the time to build me a "fun" engine. Its' a pre-68 912 engine in there... And it was done "right". The 912 engines end up in a lot of 356s.. He had about 5 of them he was using as cores for rebuilds. In fact, he said he was buying rusty 912s for under $2,000 with decent engines. I was really tempted to buy a wrecked one on eBay recently for like $1,500 with a good drivetrain. I figure itd' be a nice core drivetrain for my '57 Coupe. But the nice thing about a C/SC/912 Motor is that they're great for use in a driver. They're probably the most durable of the 356 motors... Sure as heck better than the early 1600 Supers and Super 90s!
Stan Hanks (Have ya heard of him?) just posted on the 356 digest a pretty neat statement. Something to the effect of that, unless he has documented proof that the motor was rebuilt by someone he knows to do goodwork, he automatically considers ANY of the 356/912 engines a Core. He is one of the few people alive who can do a 4-cam...
There's just toomany ways to ruin a 356 motor... It is amazing how many people think they are just like VW engines!
Bill
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Anybody who can build a 4-cammer sure has my respect. I tried and gave up and sold the engine (for a pretty good price, too as I recall).
Some folks think a Porsche engine is "like a VW engine" which is absurd if you actually busted down both engines and laid them out side by side. The quality and precision of the Porsche engine becomes immediately apparent, and does the sophistication of the design compared to the humble VW.
Of course, the guy ended up to be selling the car for a friend of the family. I finally spoke to the true owner and the "very clean" turned into "the body could use some work" which turned into "rust behind the right door, but all the 75's have that", plus broken mirrors, but all the 75's mirrors are broke". See ya.
The 914 could present me with more problems than I want to deal with, (i think a 912 is much cooler looking anyway). Owner seemed extremely into the car, probably sold it anyway.
I'm really not to excited about the Miata thing, my mother-in-law has one...enough said.
$5000 in my hand today. Fun, clean, quick, and not your mother-in-laws car....is it too much to ask?
Time to keep looking.
No, no, you want an MGB 1974 on down. 1975 starts the rubber bumper cars with jacked up suspension and terrible emissions technology. Stay away from 1975-80 MGBs please. And $5K for 1975 should bring you a show car!
No wonder I thought it was such a good deal!
It was a '75. These prices are much deflated from the chrome bumper earlier cars.
I had thought about the rubber bumper thing, but still thought (before hearing about the rust) that it was the best of the 3 choices.
Well, aezelig, back to the search.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
There was also a 72 Triumph Spitfire for under $4000. Have read and heard that it isnt so awesome, but is it even worth a look?
How about a 1965 Porsche 911?
The 914 Porsche still sitting in the paper with big classified, got the owner to send me some more pictures, Exterior and Interior look 100% perfect. The engine is tough to look at. I found a Porsche mechanic nearby. The car is two hours away. Any suggestions on how to get the seller to let me get this guy to look at it? Seems like it may be a little touchy to get him to agree to keep the car for a day or two.
I'm thinking about just building a go-kart.
I think one way to get a car inspected is to put a deposit on it. I doubt theowner will give you the car outright but he could come with you or drive it over himself. If you want to sell your car, you have to sell your car, if you know what I mean.
I don't think I'd recommend a '65 911; however it is historically an interesting car.
This is really the least desirable of the Spitfires due to the fact that horsepower was reduced to a measly 58 by emissions requirements. There are some good things about a Mk IV but power and torque aren't one of them. You'd be better off finding a Mark III or skipping up to a Spitfire 1500.
If a Mark IV were cheap and perfect, you might consider it. But if it needs work, you are throwing money in a furnace.
They are fun, though, but an MGB will walk all over a Mk IV.
A 1965 911 is a great car, for a 1965 Porsche. Its' easily a better performing car than a 356 Carrera 2, and much much cheaper to own, to buy and to drive. Then and now.
Now, is a late '60s LWB car a better bet and cheaper in all likelihood? Yeahup.
THe few NICE 1965s that I know of are coveted by Porsche "freaks". I am halfheartedly looking for one. Do I really want a 1967 or 1968 911s? Not really. DO I want a 1965 911? Oh hell yes I do! It is the first 911. And the crudest.
Sort of like 356s. I just bought a very very early 1951 Coupe that needs a lot of work. Not really rusted (Battery box only.. even Desert cars go there!) but needs a total. It is a pretty valuable car. Done its' worth more than a comparable 1965 356SC Coupe. Now, is it a better car? No. It is much more historical, it is "cuter" in my opinion, and much much more historical. The Later 356s are the most common by a long shot. They are the best driving cars. This car, with its' 1100cc engine is slow, it has weak brakes, a split windshield that is tough to see out of to a degree..etc...
But it is a VERY early Porsche, and its' what I want
So buy what ya WANT, but if you want a car to drive, and historical signifigance is not your big priority, get a later 911.
Bill
Not accurate. I can order Long Block, fully rebuilt 2.0L 911 engines for well under $4,000. (I think $3K-3,500 in a recent ad in Panorama)
Can't do that on a 356...
Bill
Bill, are those German parts in those $4K rebuilds. Seems kinda cheap for jenyewine German bits and pieces. And is this "rebuilt" or "overhauled"? If you don't know off hand dont' bother I can check myself, thanks.
I dont think they're all NPR or anything like that.... (Big Bore 1600 Motors are a pet peeve of mine.. I dont like breaking cranks but that's just me..) They are remans, no just rebuilds, and I have heard several good things about these guys...
http://www.motormeister.com
They have 2.0s for $2,795 exchange... shoot.. why buy a used engine? They do 2.4s for $2,895, 2.7s for $2,995, 3.0s for $3,595 and 3.2s for $3,995. The 3.6s run $5,495.
Seems awfully cheap, but again, I've heard they are very good. Besides, if they were junk, would they be in Pano?
But then again, I am a lot like you. I mean, I used to own a Beautiful Meissen Blue 57 Cab.. a really early one, a "beehive" car with a 1600Normal that I blew a rod in. Typical. Thankfully the case was OK. So I spent close to $7K on the rebuild. Now, do you NEED Carello rods in a driver? No. But are the factory rods with the insterts a weak spot, and did I go overboard? Yeahup. But when it was done... I could take that sucker to 6,000 if I wanted to (I never did.. pointless on a Normal). So I tend to go overboard, but dammit that motor was NEVER gonna come apart at 5,100 again (I was merging.. and.. well.. got on it in 2nd... Bad move.. stooopid)
That being said... I'm sure these would be fine for the normal driver... Someone who has an old 911 they blast out to Baskin Robins on Sunday nites with the kids.
They are remans I do believe...If you have the new Pano they're on page 47.
Bill
A badly rusted MGB is basically a parts car. His pricing is way out of line.
The interior was so unattractive though. Black, padded dash, boring layout, big DATSUN on the gearshift. Definately not too cool from the inside, but it too was in good shape. The biggest problem is that the car is so narrow, I dont think my wife would ever make it into the passenger seat. And then she would just complain the whole time. I sat up all night thinking this might be the car for me.
Well tomorrow I get to see a Lotus Europa that has been extremely well cared for by a local race car driver, plus maybe a couple of more mg's, but most of them have some rust issues and are not what I would call bargains $4-6k.
Someday I'll find the right car.
T
Ya know, I have no idea what a Datsun roadster is. Anybody got a pic of one??
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
When they were new I liked them, probably for the same reason I'm not wild about their styling now--they look fairly crude, like their sheet metal was stamped out by people who didn't feel real comfortable doing curves. Even the entry-level British sportscars had more sparkle and zip.
I'm not saying the 1600 and 2000 are ugly, just that they look almost unfinished. It does make them look more butch than the average '60s sportscar, but probably the best thing about that series was the 2000 engine (DOHC IIRC) and 5-speed.