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Pontiac Aztek

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Comments

  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    "One question for GM lovers: Why do they spell it "gages" on the dashboard but "gauges" in the brochures? "

    What does this have to do with being a "GM lover"?? Color, colour... warranty, warrantee ... who knows.
  • mark156mark156 Member Posts: 1,915
    drzoom1, GM points? Oh no! I cherish my AA (American Airlines) Mastercard because I, too, build points for free upgrades and free tickets, etc. I also build points on AA from rental cars and some hotels and my MCI long distance, so I have several avenues to build points exponentially. If only I could get a credit card that builds points toward another Mercedes....well, life is not fair I guess. :o(

    Just joking here.... but, I can see the look on your wifes face when all of the "saved-up" GM points have topped out and you surprise your wife with an "Aztek". Instead of saving the points for a free vacation (two kids will make you want a vacation) to Hawaii or something. Instead, you might save $2/3K on a car that will depreciate more than that on the day you drive it off the lot. Was it worth all of the effort in saving? Couldn't you see the guy, 25 yrs ago, bringing home the AMC Pacer feeling all puffed-up with pride and glowing with happiness by using his "AMC" credit card. Mark
    2010 Land Rover LR4, 2013 Honda CR-V, 2009 Bentley GTC, 1990 MB 500SL, 2001 MB S500, 2007 Lincoln TC, 1964 RR Silver Cloud III, 1995 MB E320 Cab., 2015 Prevost Liberty Coach
  • jmaterojmatero Member Posts: 253
    First of all, lets clarify some things being written here...

    The Aztek is NOT being redesigned next year. This is what IS happening...

    By the fall, dealers will start seeing the 2002 Aztek models with exterior modifications. Anything plastic on the exterior (front/rear bumpers, side skirting, protective cladding, grille, front/rear lighting will be changed and (with the exception of the lights of course) will be painted the color of the vehicle vs the gray we have now. The cladding over the wheels will lose the flat look and become round so as to make the wheels look larger. Many have complained the wheels look too small (a hippo on tip-toes). Also, look for more black paint applied to the window/door sills (upper) and roof with the only "painted" area, the c-piller (this will make the windows look more integrated and eliminate the unsightly angle at the rear hatch. Mechanically, the vehicle will be the same as it is now... they ARE looking into more power, but not by the fall. As for "gages" vs. "gauges", they've done that for years... most likely a way to save space.. but remember, most GM cars did not even use many gauges (speedo and fuel only) until recently! They've always been an option or on the high-end models. The joke was americans didn't know how to spell "gauges" because they only needed to spell "idot lights".

    Also, GM has instituted low financing on 2001 Pontiac Azteks. 5.9% is now in effect according to a letter I got from GM yesterday.
  • vadpvadp Member Posts: 1,025
    " All the information you need is at the Toyota web site. It's quite clear.
    Perhaps the writer of the article you read has made a mistake."

    First of all, the article I mentioned quotes Robert Reuter, GM's chief engineer for joint venture program. Do you claim that you know something that that guy doesn't know???
    BTW the article was published in "Automotive News" - one of the most informative and recognized weekly printed publications in the industry.

    Second, what website are you talking about? If it's Toyota's official N. American one, I couldn't find much of information there.
  • cb70cb70 Member Posts: 226
    Most designers have come up with the undesirable looks of our American autos and they are not union members for the most part. The cheapening' of the us auto industry wasn't because of union members, it was because of the corporations who wanted a larger return on their autos that they put out. Just in case you didn't know, nearly all of the autos made in the U.S. are union made. That includes imports also. Maybe we should be angry with the corporations who put out these cars instead of the working dogs who put them together?
  • todd54todd54 Member Posts: 22
    You mention flaring the wheel well cladding to change the perceived size of the tires. Do you know if Pontiac no longer plans to install larger wheels and tires?
    Todd
  • jmaterojmatero Member Posts: 253
    Word is the standard wheels will go from 15 to 16... the GT already has 16" and I haven't read anything suggesting a move to 17"+. Of course a higher profile tire is possible, but the problem really isn't wheel/tire size as much as it is wheel/Tire size "perception". The design of the vehicle and its lines really make the eye think they're 13" or 14" wheels, but they are already quite large. Because it is a minivan, Pontiac is going with fairly low-profile tires to improve dry-weather handling. Of course, low-profile = low-height
  • vadpvadp Member Posts: 1,025
    " nearly all of the autos made in the U.S. are union made."

    Not true. I think you mean all of the autos made by the American companies are union made.
    The majority of the so-called transplants like Toyota, Honda, Nissan are Union free.
    And the market share of jusf those three companies is increasing every year.
    Compare that to the market share of the former Big Three...
  • cb70cb70 Member Posts: 226
    I guess import means Honda to you, huh? I checked with UAW website. Besides, union members don't design these shoddy products.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Hit that link I gave you and it will take you right to the official Toyota press release. Matrix will be made in Ontario, not California. I'm not trying to butt heads with you, but a friend of mine works at the Cambridge plant as an engineer and confirmed the story is true. I don't know who quoted who but the fact is, Vibe and Matrix will not be made side by side.
  • vadpvadp Member Posts: 1,025
    What side? Would you please provide a link?
    Also how many vehicles Isuzu, Mitsubishi and the Ford's satellite Mazda produce in the U.S.?
    Next to nothing in comparison to the non-unionized Toyota, Nissan and Honda plants.

    "Besides, union members don't design these shoddy products."
    Yes, they BUILD them.

    BTW, the NUMMI plant, a joint venture between Toyota and GM, has its workforce unionized.
    The Cambridge Plant in Canada doesn't.
    Both plants build exactly the same compact car - the Corolla. Interestingly enough the Cambridge built Corolla scores better in its initial quality, than the model assembled by the organized labor.
  • vadpvadp Member Posts: 1,025
    Okay.
    Maybe your contact is right, maybe not.
    You won't have any proof until it actually happens.
  • cb70cb70 Member Posts: 226
    Union labor doesn't deserve ALL the blame for the bad products that are out there. My father worked for 30 years as a UAW member at John Deere and I don't hear many complaints about their products. I also don't recall any help when my dad was laid off or on strike thanks to some of the policies enacted against unions. I'm not saying that unions are the greatest thing in the world, they have more than their share of corruptions. But if not for the emergence of the unions in the early 20th century, we might still have very little voice against corporations who were more than happy to exploit their work force.
  • vadpvadp Member Posts: 1,025
    Sorry, if you take it personally.
    And it's not my fault that your perception of the world is so outdated.
  • gonzo7gonzo7 Member Posts: 259
    It wasn't a UAW worker who said:

    "Yeah, Lets put a vinyl top on a Cavalier and call it a Cadillac Cimarron"

    "V-8-6-4, what a great Idea"

    "Let's build the Vega without cylinder liners"

    "Just toss some high compression pistons in the Olds V-8 and we got us a diesel"

    "Now that the Fiero is actually decent, lets cancel it"

    "Now that Olds has good products, Let's kill it"

    "Let's build the Cavalier mechanically unchanged for 20+ years and then blame the workers when only rental companies will buy our crap"

    "Aztek: Looks good! Build it!"
  • rkuehnrkuehn Member Posts: 120
    The Pontiac Aztek: GM Stumbles Again

    Forbes.com

    http://biz.yahoo.com/fo/010126/0126flint.html


    Pontiac Aztek

    Automobile Magazine March 2001 excerpts:


    "We won't waste time here enumerating the Aztek's many stylistic transgressions. Instead, we'd like to salute the bold few who have taken Azteks into their garages, heedless of the calls of good taste."


    "The Aztek drives loudly and sloppily, and it isn't cheap..."


    "...the Pontiac is far cruder (than most SUV crossovers) in its execution, with a course engine, flimsy plastics, and a fairly ponderous ride-and-handling combination"


    "...there's only one Aztek. At least, we hope that's it."

  • rkuehnrkuehn Member Posts: 120
    Pontiac Aztek's lackluster sales influenced idling of Mexican plant

    http://www.auto.com/industry/iwirj26_20010126.htm


    But sales have been poor and the vehicle has

                       become the butt of jokes around Detroit.


                       Ford Motor Co. Chief Executive Officer Jacques

                       Nasser wise-cracked at an event last summer that

                       parking valets wanted to see the owner of a green

                       Aztek.


                       "There's no problem. They just want to know what

                       it is," he said.

  • cb70cb70 Member Posts: 226
    The blame for problems should rest on the shoulders of those who created it. Sorry for your obtusiveness.
  • rutegerruteger Member Posts: 60
    I heard that in the new 2002 redesign to spur sales and make it more 'retro' like the hot new Thunderbird and PT Cruiser, Pontiac will be adding tailfins and a big chrome grill to the Aztek. And although the price will rise around $1,000, they will add a sporty 4-cylinder/5-speed engine combination so it will appeal to the European crowd who like BMWs and such.

    Well, that's what I heard, anyway...
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    "You won't have any proof until it actually happens".

    I don't need any more proof. The guy I know who works at the Cambridge plant is likely being transferred from the Solara project to the Matrix project. I think maybe people and writers are assuming the Vibe and Matrix will be built side by side because that's what makes sense. I'm not sure why Toyota decided to build it elsewhere.
  • jmaterojmatero Member Posts: 253
    Man, I've been following the car biz' for a while and everyone has some "lemons" now and then... but this Aztek situation is almost unbelievable to me. I really don't know how GM will EVER get their money back on this vehicle, honestly. A car marketed to young people... the goal was to attract 70,000+ 25 year olds looking for an SUV alternative... Screw ups are obvious: First, the price: $30,000 loaded with AWD. What 25yr old can plunk down $30,000? They're the Civic crowd. They're the ones buying Escapes and PT Cruisers at $20k by the thousands. Somebody in marketing should lose their job over THIS one. Second: AWD not available at launch... big mistake. You can't lauch an "SUV Alternative" (in the northeast and mid-west) in the Fall and NOT offer AWD. Third, looks... enough said on this one. The only way I can see them selling more Azteks QUICKLY is to go for the styling updates (on tap for the fall) and cut the price so it won't max over $25,000. According to GM, most Aztek buyers are 40+ yr old Women... OOOPS! I just don't see how they can pull this one off, honestly. You know, I spotted a Montana yesterday and it's quite attractive... and available soon with AWD... for LESS than the Aztek when comparably equipped. GM marketing really is a mess. It's amazing... of ALL of the GM divisions, Oldsmobile has the nicest looking, most youthfull european-like designs. When you compare Oldsmobile's current line to that of Chevy, Pontiac and Buick it's hard to believe they're produced by the same company... yet last year they sold fewer than 100,000 cars TOTAL. I know this is going to sound simplistic, but Oldsmobiles ALREADY look quite a bit like Saturns up front... they should have taken the Aurora and some others and sold them as Saturns. I truly believe it's the name "Oldsmobile" that is the problem. I think if they re-named the company when they introduced that new logo, they'd be fine now. It's a damn shame. You know, Plymouth is dead, but it doesn't matter because the line had no personality of its own.. you could by the identical car at Dodge anyway. Now, if you want a GM sedan and you're under, say, 40, where do you go? Buick? NOPE... Chevy? I'm 32 and there is NOTHING at a Chevy... you want to compare a Passat or Accord to an Impala? Pontiac? Nothing... maybe the Grand Prix but that's due for a redesign I'm sure. Hell, even the Bonneville is being Axed after next year. This is a mess, really and it's very depressing that the world's largest automaker STILL doesn't have a clue in the 21st century.
  • surjn98surjn98 Member Posts: 34
    This is no doubt the ugliest vehicle on the road. Needs a trophy for this very fact. The people at Pontiac need to reexamine their heads and if they can't use theirs, get someone who has a proper vision.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    I'm your new host. Interesting discussion so far! :-)

    I haven't yet had a chance to read this entire topic, although I have read from the beginning of January through the present. It seems that I need to remind some of you that the Town Hall Terms of Use does require respectful discourse while discussing disagreements.

    IMO, distorting other posters' usernames and distorting vehicle names in a manner that is obviously meant to insult does not follow the Terms of Use agreement. Posts containing that type of distortion will be removed in the future, as will posts attacking other posters or other posts that in any way do not meet the TOU. You can review the agreement by using the link on the left sidebar.

    Thanks for your understanding.

    Pat
    Host
    SUV Message Board
  • drzoom1drzoom1 Member Posts: 86
    Anybody have any experience with child car seats in an Aztek? Thanks.
  • jcandorjcandor Member Posts: 19
    About 18 months back, I read an article that said GM was planning to rename the entire Olds brand "Aurora", because it truly is a dreadful name, literally translated as "aged vehicle".

    Yeah, the Olds's are better than the Buicks, but they all still bite. They're dull, boring underperformers in every category. Buick schmuick, Oldsmobile schmoldsmobile, who give's a rats backend (sorry Rat...er, Pat). GM desperately needed to prune out some of their brands.

    What's the difference between a GMC and a Chevy Truck? Can somebody explain this brilliant concept to me? Why on earth would anybody but an idiot waste millions of dollars trying to DIFFERENTIATE two essentially identical brands, instead of combining them and moving forward on the strength (and efficiency) of a SINGLE brand?

    But no, the baboons at GM, after spending tens of millions of dollars updating Olds in every conceivable way (except name), decided to keep the most identical brands (GMC and Chibby Truck) separate, thus necessitating redundant ad campaigns, duplicate bureaucracies, infighting, and market cannibalism (meaning, GMC grows by converting mainly Chibby Truck buyers, and Chibby Truck grows by converting mainly GMC buyers).

    Oh well, like I said, who cares. I certainly don't, aside from the amusement factor. GM gets precisely what it deserves, which is ridicule, shrinking market share, and bad publicity.

    Oldsmobile was on track to nail down a distinctive, sophisticated look, but of course GM was congenintally incapable of building a sedan that didn't handle like a tuna boat and understeer like a riding lawnmower. All a potential BMW owner had to do was test drive an Aurora, realize that it was slow, heavy, and dull-witted, with a crappy looking interior and terrible resale values to realize that GM didn't know the first thing about competing against the imports.

    GM is the very embodiment of corporate incompetence.
  • rkuehnrkuehn Member Posts: 120
    Sluggish sales of the new Pontiac Aztek will force General Motors Corp. to idle a production line in Mexico for 18 days in February, the company said Thursday.


    The Aztek shutdown is a setback for GM, which had high hopes for the sport-utility vehicle. GM sold 2,243 Azteks in December, far below the 5,000-per-month pace it needs to reach its annual sales target of 60,000. GM officials blame the sales shortfall on Aztek's high price and extreme design features and say changes are being considered.


    (wasn't the original sales target 75k?)


    http://199.97.97.163/IMDS%AUTONEWS_USAUTOMOTIVE%read%/home/content/users/imds/feeds/bellsuper/2001/01/26/DTNS/0000-2378-KEYWORD.Missing

  • jmaterojmatero Member Posts: 253
    Well, GM has quietly (you have to go to their website to find it....) started a new incentive program on the 2001 Aztek.

    They are currently offering $1000 cash back or 5.9% financing on any in-stock Aztek. Personally, they should be offering $2000 Cash-back AND 0.9% Financing for 60months. Maybe that will help sell these vehicles. $1000 still doesn't make it any prettier in my book. Hell, that gives you what? A Sunroof?
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    "Oldsmobile was on track to nail down a distinctive, sophisticated look, but of course GM was congenintally incapable of building a sedan that didn't handle like a tuna boat and understeer like a riding lawnmower"

    You have quite obviously never driven an new Oldsmobile or have any idea that an Intrigue out performs V6 Accord, Camry and Maxima in many categories. The car also has features like a Precision Control System which are generally only available on BMW and Mercedes. Going on rants with ignorant comments do nothing for your credibility.
  • pilot374pilot374 Member Posts: 8
    Jcandor's right about the price of the Aztek...I'm fresh out of college and looking for a good vehicle to last a long time. The Aztek starts out at a hopeful $21,000, but by the time you're done with options, and if you're satisfied with the base model (not the GT) you're talking $24-25k. That right there gives you buyer's remorse before you even bought anything. If they raise it $1,000 due to minor changes, well, thats not gonna help.
  • missieminnmissieminn Member Posts: 4
    Part of the reason I find this forum so interesting/amusing, is that I own a Toyota Echo, which many people find to be an extremely visually offensive vehicle, so I guess you could say the Echo is the Aztec's ugly counterpart, but in the small car class. But at least if the Echo is unattractive, at least it is economy priced, and has the Toyota name behind it, unlike the Aztec, which sounds pricey and iffy, quality wise. I do have a thicker skin than the Aztec owner's who bellyache when someone criticizes the Aztec, because after all, I know best that the Echo suits my needs 100%, and clown car comments aside, I am happy with it. But I do find this forum entertaining. I live north of Ft Lauderdale and have seen maybe 6-8 Astec's on the road, all dark green or black and all but 1 driven by women. But most of the Echo's I have seen (not too many, but more than 6-8!) have been driven by females too, so the Echo is also obviously primararily a chick-mobile.
  • gambit293gambit293 Member Posts: 406
    ...Cause that's what I thought it was. It's so sad that the "Aztec forum" is mostly full of people bashing the Aztec and GM. (people like me)

    But I have to agree with most of the criticism of GM here. I'm fresh out of college too. The only GM product that appeals to me (besides the corvette) was the Alero. In general, I thought the Olds line-up was the only one that had pretty modern looking designs.

    Ford, GM, and Chrysler have slowly made improvements in their build quality and reliablility. However, whereas Ford and Chrysler spit out hits like the PT Cruiser, or successful world cars like the Focus and Mondeo, GM's done nothing to improve its styling and design.

    Have you seen the latest GM concept cars? Imaj? Evoq? In my opinion, they show sheer desperation. They look like Mad Max war machines, except that they look like what the bad guy gangs would drive.

    I know it is presumptuous for me to say that I could do a better job, but: hey, just about ANYONE could crack out better styles than what GM is drooling out. It's actually quite simple; Volkswagon is probably the best when it comes to realizing this:

    Humans tend to associate objects with human traits, especially the human face. VWs have sorta large eyes, with smiling mouths, and overall very peaceful, friendly demeanors. Likewise, the new Celica's downward slanted headlights give it a very agressive personality. Mercedes look very stately and regal. Humans constantly PERSONALIZE things as they perceive the world. In this sense, the Aztek is a mutant, elephant-man, freak, genetic montrosity reject.

    I hope that GM takes all the media criticism as a challenge to rise up to.
  • gonzo7gonzo7 Member Posts: 259
    Actually, GM's response will sadly be more like:

    "What do they know? We're GM! We build it and they'll buy it. Well, Hertz and Avis will buy it. But, we'll sell them with $4,000 rebates and 0.9% financing. Sure, we'll lose money but we'll make it up in volume. Besides, people will never buy those little Japanese cars when we offer product like the Cavalier- We've made it for 20 years It's almost perfected now"
  • rutegerruteger Member Posts: 60
    Gonzo's right. There are two reasons that GM has survived for as long as it has by producing a mediocre (at best) product: volume and dealer base. They build tens of thousands of vehicles, and their huge dealer base is able to unload them at a discount, making it possible for the poor shlubs working at McDonalds and K-Mart, barely making enough to scrape by, to purchase ratty, strippo Cavaliers for a low monthly payment.

    The problem is, that dealer base is eroding with competition from other, better manufacturers who can get close to the prices of GM's lackluster, subpar vehicles. When the day comes that GM no longer enjoys the dealer base and volume price advantage (and that day will come sooner than later), GM will be history.
  • jcandorjcandor Member Posts: 19
    Dindak, I've driven EXTENSIVELY and/or owned not only Intrigues, but Aleros, both Aurora generations, Vipers, Porsche Boxters, BMWs, Volvos, Saabs, PT Cruisers, Neons, etc etc etc. (I'll be honest up front that I only wish I owned the Viper and Boxster).

    I know precisely what I'm talking about. GM can invent yet another preposterously named component (MagnaSteer, Precision Control, etc.), but it escapes me what virtue you find in those things if the end result is a car that handles like a tuna boat? I defy you to identify a single comparison test in any auto magazine (sorry, Good Housekeeping and Consumers Union don't count) in which any Olds scored higher than any Honda, ever.

    Beyond handling, the Intrigue also has a slipshod interior (the one I test drove for my mother had a 2-tone dash, and where the different tones met there was a scraggy, mismatched line, as if the darker tone were painted on with a dish towel by a chimpanzee hopped up on meth). Steering was numb and uncommunicative, especially on center. The headliner was loose and the trunk wouldn't open.

    I'm not much of a Camry fan, but I can tell you for a fact that Camries hold their value far better than any GM product, they have better fit and finish, and they're incidentally the most popular cars sold in the USA. See? A car doesn't have to be gorgeous or handle like a BMW to sell well, it just has to be well-built, reliable, and otherwise unoffensive -- all traits the Aztek lacks.

    Gambit -- great post. You said it far better than I ever could: "the Aztek is a mutant, elephant-man, freak, genetic montrosity reject."

    The other day I was stuck in traffic behind the dreadful, embarrassing Bonneville. Looking at that big tumor's taillight, I realized that there was more fussiness, busy-ness, and general senselessness going on in one Bonneville taillight than there is in the entire Volkswagen product line. I tried to count the number of different colors it contained, but I was quickly overcome with nausea and could not continue.

    Thankfully, a Ford Focus was nearby, and the sickening sense that Americans are incapable of designing and building attractive cars soon passed. The Focus contains consistent design elements, an attractive fundamental shape and look, and pretty good build quality, ideas that seem not to have occurred to anybody at GM or, for that matter, Mr. Dindak. Perhaps that's why Oldsmobile had been killed, the Aztek is a disaster, and GM continues to lose market share and market capitalization.
  • jcandorjcandor Member Posts: 19
    I found this tidbit from the Edmunds.com review of the Aurora -- a list of problems encountered on a brand-spanking-new Aurora:

    * Both rear door handles were "tweaked" so that the rearmost edge bows out and the leading edge was dented in. They didn't sit flush with the door.

    * The plastic trim affixed to the bottom of the windshield could be easily pulled up at the corners.

    * The whole front fascia was slightly crooked, and the gap between the hood and left front fender was wide near the windshield and tight near the leading edge of the hood. However, Oldsmobile did a nice job of assembling the exterior of the car and ensuring reasonably tight clearances in most other areas.

    * Inside, the coin box door was misaligned.

    * The passenger's side lower console panel could be peeled away from the dash.

    * The plastic bezels housing the steering wheel controls didn't line up properly with the airbag cover.

    * The right rear grab handle trim was loose.

    * On the driver's side, the B-pillar trim was installed partially over, rather than under, a rubber gasket. One editor fixed this himself.

    * Velcro tape and magnets hold the headliner in place. Pull on the headliner at the forward edge of the sunroof and the whole works rips away from the Velcro tape.

    I must say, that is an impressive compendium of failure. Imagine dropping thirty large for trash like that.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    I really find it hard to believe someone who is so clearly anti everything that is GM. What you say is contrary to my experiences (as an Intrigue owner) and the ratings of such well regarded publications as Consumer Reports ( who recommend it ) and Consumer's Digest who rate it a "Best Buy". JD Power rate the 3.5L DOHC as a top 10 engine in the world.

    Stats according to Automotive Marketing Consultants Inc.

    0-60 mph : Intrigue 7.66 secs, Accord 7.79
    70-0 braking: Intrigue : 176.1 ft., Accord 185.3 ft.
    Slalom: Intrigue : 57.96 mph, Accord 56.89
    Cornering : Intrigue .871 g-force, Accord .840 g-force

    Intrigue wins all of these performance categories, and that is without PCS. If you "do not understand" PCS, then perhaps you should do some reading.

    It is quite clear that you are a GM basher, nothing else. I'm sure you will go on another rant about how much you claim to know and how much GM sucks. Do so over and over and your credibility will just keep falling.
  • ruskiruski Member Posts: 1,566
    dude, you claim that even a new Olds is falling apart, based on a few quotes from an Edmund's review (Edmund's is a known basher of GM, just like you are).

    The quotes actually do not mention anything falling off. They jsut say that this or that could be pulled of peeled off.

    Woop-di-doo...

    I think that trim on most cars could be pulled or peeled off if one applies enough force.

    P.S. that Ford Focus is borderline ugly.
  • waymoresblueswaymoresblues Member Posts: 54
    Love my new Aztec!

    only problem I've had is the trunk hatch sometimes takes two clicks to release instead of one. I'll take it in one of these days - I'm not in any hurry.

    Just thought I'd remind the readers there is at least one happy Aztec owner who is happy with his purchase.

    Ugly? I don't think so. If you think it's ugly don't buy one. I happen to like the looks of it!
  • rickroverrickrover Member Posts: 601
    I do a lot of business travel, rent A LOT of cars from Avis. Avis has almost exclusively GM cars. My #1 best rental car pick is an Olds Intrigue, excellent power, decent handling, pleasant to drive all around. It seems to hold up well too, I've driven them with 7 miles to close to 30k miles (ancient by rental car standards) and have never been disappointed, they seem to hold up well. The only other Olds I've rented was a loaded Alero 2 door, liked that too. The all time worst (IMO) are Pontiac Grand Ams, second worst is Grand Prix, also can't stand a Buick Century - the suspension is so soft it's dangerous and it has a big AIR BAG imprinted in the top of the dash on the passenger side, Nasty, Nasty car - it always makes me wonder who actually buys these things.

    I drive a 2000 Passat GLS Turbo 5 speed, spouse has a 98 Audi A6 Quattro Avant (wagon). We are looking for a third utility type of vehicle to replace a 96 Toyota Tacoma SR5 extend cab truck, before that we had a 93 VW Eurovan that was great, but underpowered. Did not really care for the Toyota - a minivan would be perfect to toss all our sailing/ remodeling/ camping gear/ dogs into but we just don't care for minivans as much as we've tried to talk ourselves into one.
    We like the Aztek - especially it's odd styling - I like a vehicle that not everyone else owns, it's size and veratility are perfect for us. Plus we are hard on our third vehicles, we are totally anal about our primary cars, but tend to neglect our utility vehicle. The only other vehicle we are interested in is a 2001 VW Eurovan - VW's dropping the MSRP dramatically and adding a 201 HP engine for 2001. The GLS Eurovan is $26,000 the MV (with pop top and fridge under one of the seats, etc) is $27k. Our local Pontiac dealer is discounting the heck out of Azteks, we can get a base Aztek for around $18,500, I imagine I can get $1.5k to $2k off a Eurovan.

    Here is our pro and con list:

    Styling - don't care - neither the VW nor Aztek will win any styling awards.
    Eurovan is larger inside and has some cool features and a lot of HP. The VW will cost more upfront and to maintain - very high quality interior. We wouldn't feel comfortable abusing it, we'd have to be as anal with it as our other vehicles - thats a negative.
    The Aztek will be cheap to purchase, we'll drive it till the wheels fall off (150k miles) so resale is not an issue, it has very durable and proven mechanicals, nothing fancy, cheap to maintain. It has a typical cheap plasticy GM interior - no problem tossing our stuff and dogs with abandon in there. A scratch or a ding won't matter ( I doubt much would make it past that plastic side cladding anyway).
    We're on the fence until the crash tests come out - If it's not bad in a crash we'll probably go with the Aztek. I know the GM minivan platform it's based on is not the best crash test wise but the Chevy Impala rates 5 stars in crashes while it's Olds and Pontiac platform mates don't do nearly as well, so I'll wait and see what the Aztek actually scores, it may just do really well in a crash - who knows?
  • oac3oac3 Member Posts: 373
    you are the "perfect" Aztek owner.... someone who'd like to abuse the vehicle, cos that's all one can do with this "vehi-cross"... it may very well play to GM's hand to offer it as a vehicle you should buy if you never need to resell, and one you'd simply not care about in terms of handling, looks, safety, fit, finish, NVH, etc... Now, if you are one that fits the above, the Aztek is what the doctor ordered. And with the deals on it, you can't go wrong buying this vehicle.

    Or can you ??? well, I guess time will tell...

    -still laff'ing over this uglyness and looking forward to the 2002 version with bated breadth...
  • mark156mark156 Member Posts: 1,915
    rickrover, buy the Eurovan..... Just think, in 10 yrs you will have one of the coolest (resalable) vans around. I'm not sure that an Aztek will be around 2 or 3 yrs. GM will do everything they can to "gussie it up" and then drop it. The VW Eurovan, on the other hand, should be a good performer and handle the abuse you plan on giving it. I vote for the VW. My second car purchase in 1978 (at 20 yrs old) was a 1973 VW bus with an automatic. It was Bright medium blue with white top. I wish I still owned it.

    Mark
    2010 Land Rover LR4, 2013 Honda CR-V, 2009 Bentley GTC, 1990 MB 500SL, 2001 MB S500, 2007 Lincoln TC, 1964 RR Silver Cloud III, 1995 MB E320 Cab., 2015 Prevost Liberty Coach
  • votage1votage1 Member Posts: 1
    Great car or whatever. Had mine for three weeks already 5500 miles on it. Very comfy. I get a new vehicle every two years as I drive a lot (50,000+ per year). Have had 2 explorers, a Grand Cherokee and most recently a Durango. It is much nicer riding than any of these. Gas will be much better too. I have the AWD version. I am not crazy about the cladding but I was thinking of painting it black like the rest of the body. Might do it in the spring. Just seen picture of Pace car--it will help out tremoundously. Who did Pontiac pay offf!!
  • jcandorjcandor Member Posts: 19
    Somebody, anybody, please tell me what in God's name JD Power knows about engines. I assume you mean that that particular engine receives high ratings from owners. That seems about right, since many of the Aztek fans here consider only GM or domestic cars. I'd bet a dollar most have never driven a Honda more than a few miles.

    Anyway, this argument is so adolescent. There's a reason Accord outsells Intrigues by, say, 3 or 4 to 1. There's a reason it's on Car & Driver's 10 Best list virtually every year. There's a reason it holds its value better than any GM car ever built. The reason, which is beyond your ability to identify, is that more people consider it a better car. Myself, the entire automotive press, and the majority of US consumers included.

    Another sign that the Accord is better than the Intrigue is that Honda is racking up profits, and Olds is being...now, what did I just read?...oh yeah, it's being SHUT DOWN. Hmmm, now why could that be? Big mystery, eh?
  • teoteo Member Posts: 2,508
    The '10 best engines in the world' award is given by Wards Automotive a very respectable publication in the automotive industry. On these yearly awards I don't even recall seeing, for once, the I-4 or V6 engines currently offered in the Honda Accord and Toyota Camry sedans. Many other engines have made it to this prestigious award including the 3.0L V6 from Nissan, GM's 3800 V6, GM's Northstar engine family (Including the Intrigue's 3.5L DOHC engine), Ford's 4.6L V8, Volkswagen's 1.8 TDI Diesel powerplant, etc.

    Jacandor::: Keep up the humorous postings. The only thing I am going to tell you Mr.Smart Cookie, is that with each GM bashing posting coming from your fingers, your credibility is eroding quickly and by the minute; however, you have become an invaluable object of constant amusement and without a doubt, your presence here makes this whole forum both Ironic and controversial at the same time.

    Keep it up!
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Owned an Accord for 5 years. Not bad, but it was a rust bucket and wouldn't start when it was below -10C. New ones are the dullest tin cans on the road next to the Camry. Obviously the best cars are the ones that sell the most and look the dullest right?

    Whatever... keep on bashing bud.

    teo : You are right.. it is Ward's not JD Power. I always mix them up for some reason.
  • oac3oac3 Member Posts: 373
    i don't think i can come close to defending jcandor on this forum, he is quite capable to do this himself. but this forum is about the Aztek isn't it ? why should it become "jcandor_vs_GM". GM, like any car manufacturer, has its (large) share of poor quality cars. Whether the Accord is actually a "better" car than the Intrigue can easily become superficial. Owners of these cars can judge best. However, evidence on the street shows that the Honda do outsell the Intrigue, has better resale value, is far more popular, and unless most of the buying public are stupid, it can be described as a "better-buy" for all of the above. Did anyone read the latest NHTSC report on rollovers ? Guess where the Accord rated ? 'Nuff said...

    btw, if GM is that smart, the Oldsmobile line has been a steady, albeit not fancy, producer of very capable cars. The demographics have tilted towards the fairly elderly (50+), but with the performance-inclined cars like the Aurora and Intrigue, these have the capability of attracting younger buyers... but alas, the axe has fallen on this line of cars. who would be next, Buick ? Saturn ? or Pontiac ?

    My bet will be on the Pontias, if for nothing else, but to cover their embarrassment for producing the "concept" car - AZTEK - the single, most ugly vehicle ever, imo.... But, I'd wager GM would rather eliminate the successful Buick than the lagard Pontiac... just my opinion
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    "unless most of the buying public are stupid, it can be described as a "better-buy" for all of the above".

    The buying public generally doesn't know what an Intrigue is. Further, the general public are not car enthusiasts, they just buy whatever is well rated and their co-worker tells them to. Accord may have better resale and roll over tests, but it's far from a better car. Just ask my neighbor who had to replace the transmission on his 99 Accord, he will tell you how much he loves his car.

    Let's get back to the Aztek...
  • jmaterojmatero Member Posts: 253
    Here's the deal... Buicks are purchased by people over the age of 50. In fact, there is no other American brand that sells more cars to the 50-60+ crowd and Buick sells THOUSANDS of cars each and every year. Pontiac has sold (traditionally) to mainly young buyers. EVERY attempt Buick has made in the past decade to sell to a younger crowd has failed and Buick is betting the farm on the Rondevous... hoping to get younger (40-ish) lexus buyers over to their side. Even if it fails, however, Buick sells cars, period. They're not going anywhere. Pontiac has had similar problems. They have tried to bring in the older BMW/Audi crowd for years but always fail. Take the current Bonneville. I understand why this car has been discontinued after next year. Pontiac claims their cars have "european styling and handling". WRONG. I have yet to see... or have ever seen... a european car that looks REMOTELY like anything in Pontiac's current product line. NOBODY looking at a 5-series BMW or Audi A6 would cross-shop Pontiac... it doesn't happen. If there is ANY other GM division that is in trouble, it's Pontiac. The aztek just isn't working. Bye-Bye. They're losing their full-sized car (Bonneville), and look at what's left... The Grand-prix sales have been falling off big time (not because it's a bad car, but because it's been out now for years and has NEVER seen a styling update inside or out). The Grand-am is a big seller, but even GM admits its biggest customers are rental car companies. Ditto for the sunbird. Now, Pontiac does have a new generation small car and the Vibe coming in the next few years and some would suggest they will breathe life into the mark. BUT.. let's remember.. Oldsmobile is now dead, yet they still introduced the new Aurora and in a few months will introduce a brand-new Bravada that is World-class by all accounts. I think Pontiac is closer to the chopping block than Buick.
  • sjgladwinsjgladwin Member Posts: 24
    I have seen probably 3 of the new Bonne's where I live (MA). And I hardly ever even see the previous generation (except on sales lots). I actually saw 2 Aztecs this weekend (slate grey paint, darker grey cladding). My wife had never seen one in person before and as soon as this one passed us on the highway (clipping right along at 90) she burst out laughing. Does Pontiac even make the Sunfire anymore? The only Pontiacs I see are Grand Prix's driven by 17 year olds who spend more on the stereo's than the actual car, Grand MA's, and the occasional Bird. It seems that the Grand MA is really the only thing keeping Pontiac alive (at least in my area). Grand Prix's are kind of popular, but to every one I see, I see 5 Tauruses!!! Pontiac just doesn't seem to be competitive around these parts, and I wouldn't be surprised if they were the last to go.
  • sjgladwinsjgladwin Member Posts: 24
    THey won't be the last.
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