Are Toyota's recent quality problems just a glitch?

bottgers · January 2007

It sounds like you're thoroughly impressed with every aspect of Toyota, and yet you don't want a Toyota? Why not?

anythngbutgm · January 2007

I've never owned a Toyota either. Lack of manual trannies is a big disappointment and their abandonment of fun cars (Aside from say a tC) has made them seem stodgy.

BIG example is the IS. No manual? Heck even the most stickler of automatic equipped cars (MB) offers a stick in their C-class. Yet, Toyota seems content in offering Auto-only in what is otherwise an outstanding package (if a bit pricey). But I digress...

The first one that HAS attracted my attention is the new RAV4 with the V6. A buddy of mine got one for his wife and she's getting something like 26 - 28mpg! 270hp and midsize sedan economy for around 25 grand is tough to beat. So Toyota hasn't lost me forever.

dtownfb · January 2007

Good question. I have a 85 mile round trip commute to work so fuel efficiency is a priority. NO SUVs. You would think the Corolla would be perfect. But at 6'4" tall and a 35" inseam, the seating position is not very good for me. The Camry is an option but I was terribly thrilled with the ride of the previous generation. I'm just not hip enough to pull off the Scion xB or xA. I will look at the Matrix but since this is essentially a Corolla, I'm not too optimistic. SUVs are out of the question.

I'm attending the Auto Show in Harrisburg tomorrow. I'll have a chance to sit in all the vehicles without dealers hassling me. Right now the front runners are the Accord or Civic. The Fusion/Milan are there as well as the Camry. I'm also looking at cars like the Sentra, Versa, Mazda3, Altima. In other words, anything I can fit in that gets over 30 mpg.

drjames · January 2007

If you are considering the 2007 Camry, may I suggest the SE trim. I think the ride would surprise and please you. I've heard good things about the new Altima too.

But, if you have problems fitting into a Corolla, I can't see you being comfortable in a Civic, Sentra, or Mazda3.

Anyways, have fun at the auto show.

kdhspyder · January 2007

With a long trip like yours ( mine is 75 mi each way ) consider the Prius. it's significantly bigger inside than the Corolla and for me much more comfortable. 48 mpg on an annual average, 38,000 mi thus far, is another good reason. For a more regular vehcle the hybrid Camry is very large. With it you will get V6 power and the fuel economy of the Corolla 35-39 mpg on average.

Both vehicles cost about the same.

nwng · January 2007

definitely try out the versa, the seats are actually pretty big

bottgers · January 2007

As strange as it sounds, you may want to check out the new Yaris. I know it's touted as a smaller model than the Corolla, but I test drove one recently and it seemed to have more front seat room than my '99 Corolla. It's actually a pretty impressive car all around. Keep in mind the Yaris with a manual tranny drives like a completely different car than the automatic. The manual feels like a GT version compared to the auto.

dtownfb · January 2007

I've taken hybrids off the list since you don't get your money back on the initial investment. But I will talk to the dealers tomorrow about this vehicle. I know it was tough getting one a year ago but gas prices in my area are down to $2.17.

bottgers: The Yaris would definitely be a change from my Intrigue.

16wheels · January 2007

Toyota scares me, yes I got a Sludge Camry.

Sludge engines, Tundra ball joint failure, etc, Toyota is definitely slipping.

Nissan Versa has lots of room. I like the torquey engine around town at the expense of a few mpg. Feels more substantial than the Yaris. EPA lists Versa 30/36 with 94 cu.ft.,Yaris 34/39 with 87 cu.ft. Expect Yaris recalls any day now. Toyota only recalls after customers complain VERY loudly.

SEE REVIEW

bottgers · January 2007

I think what you are discribing is more the exception than the rule. Just because some people have had sludge problems (which is more due to owner neglect than anything), and you've had a ball joint failure doesn't automatically mean people are going to start having problems with their Yaris'. If there's an indication of anything it's that the Yaris is much like the Echo, which had reliability traits that rivaled the Corolla.....which holds the title of being the most reliable car of all time.

dtownfb · January 2007

Versa was very impressive. I'll post my day at the Auto show in the Smart Shopper forum (Help me decide....).

geo9 · January 2007

According to the poor toyota sludge victims they
changed their oil according to the toyota owners
manual schedule................

Me?...........I do a LOF EVERY 3-4000 miles!
Better safe than sorry for a $20 procedure,,,,,,,,,,

bottgers · January 2007

Maybe, but what were they using, store brand oil and Fram filters? Changing your oil for your engine's health isn't just about how long you go between changes, it's also about which oil and filters you're using as well. What good does it do to follow the recommeneded change interval of 7.5K miles if the oil is only good for 3-4K miles?

210delray · January 2007

The key words are according to the poor toyota sludge victims ...some didn't have receipts to prove it.

Others were stretching the time or mileage limits.

Still others were using the "iffy lubes" of the world.

I used conventional, major brand 5W-30 oil (and even the dreaded Fram filters initially, until I heard about their questionable quality), but changed it myself every 5K miles or less (3+ times a year), and never had a sludge issue for the 7 years and 111K miles I had my '97 Camry 4-cylinder.

goodcrd · January 2007

Hate to break it to some Toyota huggers but as long as the oil meets the manufactor's specs it's all good. Get over it. The engine has a problem which is more likely related to a poorly designed EGR and CCV system.

210delray · January 2007

Why should I "get over it" when I've never had the problem? This Feb. 1, it will be a solid 10 years I've had a Camry in my "fleet," and there's been only 2 recalls in total and one warranty repair. Total accumulated miles (3 cars, 2 currently owned): 172K miles.
Can you find a link showing there was a problem with the EGR or PCV system? I've never found anything specific on the 4-cylinder engine (which I always have had in my Camrys). BTW, the 4-cylinders in my '04 and '05 don't even have EGR -- the engine runs clean enough without it!

goodcrd · January 2007

Be careful here with the EGR systems on Japanese engines. If you check you will find they are required on vehicles on sale in the US, not in Japan. And you want to use PCV instead of CCV! OK. Same thing. The egr valve on these engines are for smog control. Yes both Japanese and US versions will both pass US emissions but without the egr valve it will fail the smog test.

geo9 · January 2007

Thats right !!!!!!!!!!!!!
As long as any service part meets or exceeds SAE or
mfr. specs. its all good !!!!!!!!!!!!!1
I use the cheapest they have as well as the local
$19.95 lof place no matter if its quickie lube or
Mr. Goodwrench!
The old excuses won't work for me ! My last 3
Caddies had around 125k miles on them when I
traded them, My 72 GTO has 175k (I have owned it
since 1974 BTW), my Z-28 has 150k !
Never opened up either motor except to swap out the
cam and lifters for more GO-GO fun !

I run the piss outta ALL them......Even my new Caddy
or my 04 Chevy 2500 which sees SEVERE duty either snowplowing or heavy towing !

The toyota snake oil or excuses don't sway me !
The sludge posts both here, tundra solutions and
other numerous sludge complaint sites around the
net make me believe toyota has a problem...............
But remains in denile ! :lemon:

lemonhater · January 2007

The trouble is did it meet or exceed manufacter's spec and was there some unfornseen issuse with certian brands formulation(i.e. less detergent?). SAE only is a minuim spec.

The reason why I think so is because there seems to be a lot of people(like possibly the majority) who didn't have the sludge problem. Kinda wierd, I think.

As for the Cadalic, it should run quite well. GM's most reliable brands are Cadalic and Buick. In fact thoose two are as reliable as toyota if not a little less or more so. Although juzz, a car that you have had since 1974 should have more than 175-150K miles.

My own 94 trecel has almost 127,000 miles on it now but is 20 years younger than thoose two. In addition you got nice early 70ies cars. The Domestics didn't start the junk fest until the late 70ies all the way into the 80ies and perhaps the early 90ies.

My own experince with the domestic woes where that it didn't matter how hard you worked the domestics. They broke down period. In addtion the domestic woes seems to only affect cars NOT trucks. Which is probably why toyota hasn't dominated the truck market.

geo9 · January 2007

I always have had at least 2 cars at a time. I
currently have 4 plus a motorcycle.
Low miles on the Goat? Yup.........and you have to
remember here in snow and salt winterwonderland everybody
has a winterrat and puts their classic car in the barn
for the winter. The poor Z is buried out in a snowbank
as I type ! The barn is full with the Goat, jetskis,
motorcycle, and lawn tractors so the other 3 must sit
outside..............LOL !!!!!!!!!!!

Funny tho........The ol' ball and chains Escort hasn't
had a oil change in ages. I can assume the same goes
for my boys Caviliers.... All 4 cylinders too and NO
sign of sludge yet !

lemonhater · January 2007

That explains alot. You don't put high miles in short time on one car AND should something breakdown, no skin off your back you have a spare. Most people I know only own one car, maybe two if they are married. The net effect is that a breakdown of any type is a major pain in the BEEP in more ways than just finicially.

As for sludge, well I would suggest you change the oil on the escort and cavalilier regardless. Not worth it. I am amazed ford kept the Escort so long. The 84 version of the car had a wonderful smoking engine in three years!

bottgers · January 2007

ALL oils you'll find on the shelf meet SAE specs, but that doesn't mean it's good for 7.5K intervals. Many SAE oils are done at 3-4K, yet people run them for 6-8K and then want the manufacturer to fix the engine problems they've caused by running too long on cheap oil. This kind of abuse will happen with any engine resulting in sludge, but you're only gonna hear the complaints when it happens with makes that are normally trouble-free.

geo9 · January 2007

Yes.......... BUT...........
I read very few...if ANY sludge complaints about ANY other
make or model with any size engine let alone that "stellar"
4 cyl. (any version) that toyota uses............

Now can we talk about the POOR quality ball joints and
related dangerous failures and recall issues that are
being ignored by the yota koolaid drinkers?
Or the new camry auto trans. issues, or the wonderful
prius issues? I guess all those problem posts at
tundra solutions are posted by troublemaker NON owners.

Nah ........just a glitch !

bottgers · January 2007

Fair enough, but I'll still take my chances with a Toyota any day over anything from the big 3.

scape2 · January 2007

for a Japanese company.. They hide issues very well.. its all about honor and image... With the internet and forums like these.. can't hide them anymore.. :surprise:

geo9 · January 2007

Some folks sure are quick when ANY automaker (esp. GM on these forums) to down that brand for any reason no matter
what or how small it is.

But when its a recall or complaint on the almighty brand
with the goofy Prince designed symbol on the grille (give
me the good ol' bowtie or Caddy crest anyday!) the
koolaid drinkers hem n' haw how its a conspiracy to discredit the USAs savior of the automakers let alone all
the consumers of N. America !

Plain and simple.....toyotas NEVER have problems !
(except the 2 I once owned from new and they suffered from
chronic rust out and terminal head gasket failures just
outside of their warranty period).

Well its time to read the 07 camry complaint thread then
take a trip over to tundra solution.com for a laugh
and read about the problems with that "troublefree" brand.

bottgers · January 2007

I'm not quite sure what your problem is with Toyota, or people who like them, but the numbers don't lie. Even with Toyota's most recent problems, they're still light years ahead of the big 3 in terms of build quality and reliability.

lemko · January 2007

I wouldn't say "light years" away. Maybe half a block at most. I was inside a coworkers Corolla a few days ago and it didn't look much better than any domestic small car I've been in. Still a lot of hard plastics like everybody else.

geo9 · January 2007

Its funny that toyota leads the pack at the BOTTOM
of a few surveys out there not to mention "quality"
or relibility. JD Powers comes to mind !

But as always the "koolaid drinkers" poo-poo ANY
negative post, survey, recall, etc. from that
wonderkind company.......................

bottgers · January 2007

geo9

It's obvious YOU are the koolaid drinker and it has clouded your automotive vision. Go pound your anti-Toyota drum somewhere else as you're just making a fool of yourself!

Lemko

I'm not talking about the plastics. I'm talking about build quality and how it relates to reliability. Take a look at your co-worker's Corolla after it has reached 100K miles, then compare it to a Crapalier with 100K. The Corolla will look, feel, and drive like a new car compared to the Crapalier, and I'd bet it had far fewer problems than the Crapalier during that 100K mile period. That's what I'm talking about!

PF_Flyer · January 2007

Let's get away from this personal edge that's developing please.

Keep the conversation about the topic and away from each other.

geo9 · January 2007

ONLY 36 new posts over at the 07 camry thread..........

Mostly from the zealots riding the poor person and blaming
HIM for the issues with his vehicle a problematic camry.

There are NO problems in the house of toyota........

bottgers · January 2007

...far fewer problems in the Toyota house than in the house of the domestics.

uplanderguy · January 2007

It's funny, I have owned a '97 Cavalier and an '02, both bought new and were 5-speeds with air and 15" wheels and tires and not much else. The '97 had 131K when I traded for the '02--not because it was junk but because I didn't think the rebates could possibly get any better (duh!)

I think perception does play a huge part in how people think about domestics. Example: My twenty-something brother-in-law borrowed my 100K '97 Cavalier a few years back. When he brought it back, he said he couldn't believe that it felt that tight @ 100K and had the preconceived notion it would have felt like crap. He admitted he was wrong (without an iota of prodding from me!)

And..he owned a '97 Accord Coupe at the time.

My '02 Cav hasn't been quite as good as the '97 (cracked dash in one place, and f/e noise had me replace front struts @ 82K miles, which I never did on the '97)--but it still cleans up beautifully and I'm not embarrassed of it at all! It starts and runs well, all the time.

Bill P.
Ohio

lemko · January 2007

Chevrolet should've kept the Cavalier wagon. My best friend's older brother had a white 1985 Cavalier wagon we used to move furniture into my first apartment back in the day. I couldn't believe how much stuff that little wagon could hold. They really had something there with a small, affordable, and economical wagon.

seminole_kev · January 2007

while heading off topic, my father had a company car that was a late 80's Cavalier Wagon. I used to take it out occasionally on dates in high school. The only thing I remember from that car is that the material in the cargo area was very similar to astro-turf and was tough on the skin. I won't say how I know that.

geo9 · January 2007

And the word is getting out.
Read this: http://autos.aol.com/article/safety/v2/_a/striving-for-perfection/20070126112809- 990001

Yeow..........toyota recalls have JUMPED from 2.5 MILLION
vehicles to 9.3 MILLION in the LAST 3 years !!!!!!!!!

Yup ! toyota..........Moving forward.........swirling
down the bowl..............

210delray · January 2007

So how many times is that old news going to be recycled?

For a different spin, check out how the "home team" Detroit News reported it here.

Toyota, GM, and Ford are ALL down considerably for recalls in 2006 vs. 2005. DCX is up.

geo9 · January 2007

Article just posted on AOL today !
But yet again......ALL LIES and a conspiracy to discredit
the (sic) BEST automaker on the planet!
JD Power co. are liars too !

That yota koolaid sure is good!

drjames · January 2007

"Its funny that toyota leads the pack at the BOTTOM
of a few surveys out there not to mention "quality"
or relibility. JD Powers comes to mind ! "

lol... you're posts are always sooo funny.

"Lexus and Toyota models continue to dominate initial quality rankings, capturing 11 out of 19 segment awards in 2006. Lexus models rank highest in every segment in which they compete. In addition, the LS 430 ties the Porsche Cayman for having the fewest quality problems in the industry. Other top-ranking Lexus models include: IS 250/IS 350, ES 330, SC 430, GX 470 and LX 470.

Toyota remains a quality benchmark, capturing five model-level awardsfor the Corolla, Solara, Camry, Highlander and Sequoiamore than any other non-luxury brand." (source: http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2006082)

ccostable · January 2007

The recall brought up in that story about the Tundra's lack of child anchors really shows what they are like these days. It's not that big of a deal that they left out the anchors. A sign of their slipping quality in their production, I guess you could say maybe, but it was their solution to the problem that had me floored. Instead of installing the costlier safety anchors, they decided to deactivate the front air bag cut off switches. That meant if you wanted to continue, or in the future, use the front seat for a child, you were limited to only using a seatbelt
for installation of the carseat. Now any carseat can be installed without the anchors (in most instances), but they increase the probability of the seat being installed correctly. And when almost 80% of seats are installed incorrectly, that is a big deal.

anythngbutgm · January 2007

with 100k felt tight? I've driven those things with like 40k and they were complete rattletraps. Cavelier and "tight" were NOT synonymous. Cavalier and deathtrap? Yeah, I can believe that... I wouldn't give a Cavalier to my worst enemy.

And it has zero to do with Toyotas...

bumpy · January 2007

Except for this one.

I'd love to figure out how Toyota managed to sell any of those in Japan. They'd have an easier time selling kei cars in Texas.

anythngbutgm · January 2007

Amazing anybody bought on of those abominations (Oh wait, one of my old gf back in HS did)

TOKYO--Dec. 25--Engines that stall. Turn signals that don't work. It's been a rocky start for the Toyota Cavalier -- the first Big Three car to be sold in Japan as a Japanese make.

http://www.accessmylibrary.com/comsite5/bin/pdinventory.pl?pdlanding=1&referid=2- 930&purchase_type=ITM&item_id=0286-6392411

Probably would have had better luck pedlling Geo's :sick:

geo9 · January 2007

YUP....That article is from 1996 and a good find to boot !
Its good to report on a car thats not even made anymore !

uplanderguy · January 2007

That was my first post under that subject, and this is my last.

These posts in response to mine, remind me of something I learned on my own about twenty years ago...

Those who proclaim to be the most open-minded, and who roll their eyes at any opinion other than theirs, are actually the most narrow-minded.

You've "driven" them...I've owned them.

Your mind is made up already, so no use further commenting on my part. I anticipate two or three snotty replies to this post...which will go unanswered.

Enjoy.

Bill
Ohio

lemko · January 2007

...as a rental car. It was as crude as pig iron but got the job done. Other than the dismal interior, it didn't seem like such a bad car. It's great for those on a tight budget. A co-worker of mine who makes a modest salary and has four kids has a 1998 model. He has nothing but good things to say about it.

bottgers · January 2007

...figured out what geo9's agenda is here. He seems to have a personal beef with Toyota. I've never seen anyone so avid about speading the word about Toyota's recent quality control issues. Most people simply avoid buying cars from manufacturers they don't like, but geo9 seems hell bent on single handedly taking down Toyota. What's the beef?

stevesjc · January 2007

How can you be surprised when so many people here (including the Edmund's Staff itself) have a personal beef with Ford and/or GM? If you took an objective view of the posts on these forums you would see that many, many individuals come here only to bash Ford and GM, nothing else.

rockylee · January 2007

bottgers,

I'm not trying to have a personal feud or pick on you because you are far from the worst but many folks have a personal beef with GM, and Ford. I guess people like geo9, myself, and others think some come to domestic forums also to bash everything GM and Ford.

I've tried my best to become more unbiased and when I find a positive story about a foreign products and I will now post it. Just yesterday I posted positive things about how sales are both up at Honda and Toyota. I've done the same thing about new products coming out from Mercedes. I have my personal views and opinions just like everyone else and will fumble the ball every once in a while and let my GM loving heart get the best of me.

I however will not go into a camry forum and bash it to death. What would I accomplish ????? I however feel we all can have a adult conversation and debate in the appropriate forums as long as we keep it from getting personal. I've said in the past I'm pretty hard headed just in case you've never noticed

but I've had my opinions changed based on the good posts many of you bring to the table. I've admitted I've been wrong on a few occasions and you don't know how hard that is for me to admit. It eats me up. :P

Well lets get back to the topic at hand. I hope we can continue forward more mature

Thanx,

Rocky

Are Toyota's recent quality problems just a glitch?

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