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Crossover SUV Comparison

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Comments

  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    I read the owners manual and it states premium is recommended.
  • 99zoomr99zoomr Member Posts: 55
    Excellent points!

    We have had 2 GMC vehicles in the last 4 years. We traded in our '99 GMC Jimmy back in 2004 on a new Camry. It had 80k on it. After we'd spent about 3000 dollars fixing the front transaxle and CV joint problems, alternator, sagging door hinges, and electronic problems, we decided to get rid of it before it cost us anymore. At 55k, the Camry's only been back to the dealer for one minor "non-maintenance" repair.

    We also traded our GMC Sierra last February. After 75k we'd replaced the alternator, power brake booster, windshield wiper motor (twice), water pump (twice), and temp sending unit (which never worked right). I'd almost forgot that back when I got my Sierra (which I'd ordered) I couldn't even pick it up from the dealer until they replaced the whole rear-end assembly. This was due to faulty welding on the rear axle shaft which made the brake drums scrape on the dust shield. It got shipped to the dealer that way. Anyway, I traded that in on our CX-9 last February, and after 10k, the CX-9 has only been back for one TSB for the front door checkers and routine maintenance.

    Maybe GMC quality has improved since these vehicles were made, and there were many things on those vehicles which I actually liked, but I can't afford to keep giving them chances to get it right. I hope someday I'll be able to consider them when it's time for a new car again...
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    With just 215 SAE HP it's not particularly performance tuned or high compression, so I see no reason to use premium fuel on the 3.3l Toyota V6.

    You can, I suppose. Just no need.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Our 3.5L 2000 Odyssey was only 210hp (and that's before the new SAE regs) but asked for premium. Without it, it delivered 205hp.

    I'd just run regular through it.
  • albookalbook Member Posts: 1,282
    If it says premium, I usually wouldn't reccomend fooling around with regular. But that is a huge turnoff. If that is what is required in the Toyota S*****, then I will never consider that V**. THats another example of Toyota thinking they are good enough to pull a fast one to get more money out of someone.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    All it will do is retard the spark slightly, effectively lowering the compression ratio, IIRC. A computer controls this, and corrects for regular. We ran regular in our Odyssey after gas started climbing back in 2005. No problems, and no noticeable power difference to speak of.
  • albookalbook Member Posts: 1,282
    Data from Truedelta.com CX-9 2007 54 trip per year from 27 customers.
    Acadia 2007 98 trips per year from 95 customers.
    you can't compare this data. This data absolutly useless.


    Take a deep breath, and read more carefully: right at the top, it says "trips/year per 100 vehicles". So the data is already normalized for you out of 100 vehicles.

    So for the CX-9, it's 54 trips per 100 vehicles, while for the Acadia, it's 98 trips per 100 vehicles. That's all you have to look at. The website has already factored in the # owners, etc, and uses a sample size that is large enough to be statistically significant.

    So based on truedelta's results, odds are that if you own a 2007 Acadia, you'll be in the shop more often than if you owned the 2007 CX-9 (almost twice as likely being in the shop with the Acadia). Fortunately, the 2008 Acadia is faring much better, only 36 trips to the shop per 100 vehicles so far. That's great news, since it means GM has likely corrected a lot of the issues that plagued the 2007.

    But look at the numbers. 95 customers have 98 problems. 27 have 54. That means that those who had problems on the CX-9 had 2, while those who had problems on the Acadia had around 1.
  • albookalbook Member Posts: 1,282
    Wow! I hope your new vehicles work out for you. If I would have had that kind of trouble, I wouldn'nt say I'd never own a GM vehicle again, but I'd be bitter as H***. I just have had really good luck.

    But all American vehicles aren't like that. Ford currently tops JD and CR's charts for reliability- but I guess you've already benefitted them.
  • vad1819vad1819 Member Posts: 309
    Thanks albook.

    Reply to thegraduate:
    WOW, WOW.
    If you can't take a joke, I'll back up.
    You're right size is not everything. But if you want replace your minivan it's
    better option. But if you re looking for everyday car (SUV) I will look at
    Murano, X-3, RAV, CRV, Edge..........!!!!
    I think Lexus, MDX, ML, X5 better choice as luxury SUVs, and then full
    loaded Acadia or CX-9.
  • vad1819vad1819 Member Posts: 309
    We traded in our '99 GMC Jimmy back in 2004 on a new Camry.

    WOW, It's big change and boring. SUV for sedan? By the way 08' Camry has very bad reliability and CR not recommend it anymore. For same money you can buy VW passat. It's has more room and fun to drive 100%.
    Enjoy your "zoom, zoom".
  • 99zoomr99zoomr Member Posts: 55
    Yeah, I guess the Camry is boring if that means a vehicle that is reliable and gets great gas mileage (we've averaged 30mpg). Anyway, it's my wife's car and she really likes it, so that's what's important. I do agree the later Camry's have not seemed to have the quality of the earlier models, but they set a pretty high standard for themselves to keep up with. We've also had 5 Mazda products (2 GLC's, 2 626's, and I still have a Miata) before the CX-9 and always had very good luck with them. I think the worst and most expensive problem we've had with them was a blown head gasket on our first 626 at 80k back in 1989. Maybe this reliability for a make is unusual, but we're hoping the trend continues. And even though we had some quality problems with our GMC vehicles, we tended to overlook them for awhile because we liked the service we got from the dealer (that really makes a big difference!), and they really did have some features we could appreciate. I also liked having a truck for haulin' big stuff. Anyway, when the time comes to replace one of our cars again someday, I won't discount any brand (including GMC) until I've done a lot of research...
  • nxs138nxs138 Member Posts: 481
    But look at the numbers. 95 customers have 98 problems. 27 have 54. That means that those who had problems on the CX-9 had 2, while those who had problems on the Acadia had around 1.

    That's not correct; let me break it down further:

    (1) If you look at the chart, 95 vehicles reported in for the Acadia, and 27 reported in for the CX-9. Agreed?

    (2) The website does not list how many total trips were taken to the shop by these 95 or 27 vehicles. Rather, it lists the number of problems per 100 vehicles, in an attempt to make things easier to compare. So you can't say 27 vehicles have had 54 problems, since the 54 problems are based on 100 vehicles.

    (4) So if the data is per 100 vehicles, and 27 vehicles reported in for the Mazda, it means the website multiplied 27 X 3.7 to normalize to 100 vehicles. So the number of problems for 27 vehicles is 54/3.7 = 14.6 (so about half a problem per vehicle). For the Acadia, doing the same math, 95 vehicles X 1.056 = 100 vehicles, so number of problems for 95 vehicles = 98/1.056 = 92.8. So almost 1 problem per vehicle.

    (5) So the Mazdas are in the shop twice as less as the Acadias.

    (6) Maybe the owner of truedelta should pipe in, if he reads this forum.
  • vad1819vad1819 Member Posts: 309
    (4) So if the data is per 100 vehicles, and 27 vehicles reported in for the Mazda, it means the website multiplied 27 X 3.7 to normalize to 100 vehicles. So the number of problems for 27 vehicles is 54/3.7 = 14.6 (so about half a problem per vehicle). For the Acadia, doing the same math, 95 vehicles X 1.056 = 100 vehicles, so number of problems for 95 vehicles = 98/1.056 = 92.8. So almost 1 problem per vehicle.

    I don't know about this. I see there, they have data from CX-9 -27 cars and Acadia -98 cars reported. Also they have ridicules date of the 427 month for Acadia, so we know maximum can be only 24 month. Any ideas? and odometer 5398 for 98 vehicles which makes 56 miles per car. I think their data is out of control. Just read this reports, they make no sense. All i know from other Acadia forum,that GM CUV have some problems, which is normal. Also CX-9 has less problem because CX-7 took all hit.
  • nxs138nxs138 Member Posts: 481
    To tell you the truth, I don't buy cars based on reliability data--I buy them based on looks and performance. My wife...well, it's the exact opposite, which is why she likes her dependable Geo and doesn't like my Audi.

    To me it's a toss-up between the Acadia and the Mazda. I like the way they look, and performance is almost equivalent, with the nod to the Mazda. The decision-making factor here is number of kids: we have 2, so I don't need the extra room of the Acadia. So the Mazda will do fine, although if I had 3 kids, I'l pick the Acadia over all the other CUVs out there (and yes, maybe I'd also consider a minivan, but the Acadia looks so much better!)
  • vad1819vad1819 Member Posts: 309
    I don't buy cars based on reliability data

    I don't do either. I've all my live VW/Audi product in my family and we all know VW/Audi is not perfect reliable car. But it drives like champ, I mean sport car.
    I got Acadia, because we have big family, and it has a lot room, much quite inside.
    Also it may look like some ...(can't say), but I'm trying to keep going american economy and save jobs for "Detroit" , even this car didn't assembled in Detroit. You know, what I meant. I've been looking for all 1.5 years to find good american car, that will serve my needs. The Acadia is one those cars.
  • haymistahaymista Member Posts: 12
    I test drove the Acadia twice before buying my CX9. Even though the powertrains were similar, I felt the mazda handled and drove like a quicker smaller car. I eliminated the Acadia rather quickly because it seemed you had to really get on the gas pedal to accelerate while the Mazda seemed more effortless.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    By the way 08' Camry has very bad reliability and CR not recommend it anymore.

    Only the V6 Camry has reported issues. The 4 cyl Camry is still at the top of the list. CR is no longer recommending new models from Toyota because of this. Does this mean the Camry is unreliable? I don't think so. I'm sure Toyota will fix it, they always do.

    Personally, I am not a fan of Toyota. They do build reliable vehicles, though.
  • jpzenger1jpzenger1 Member Posts: 8
    The base prices of the Acadia and Outlook are a couple thousand dollars higher than Taurus X. There is a now a $2,000 rebate on Taurus X.

    The Mazda CX-7 and 9 do not have great visibility or great rear headroom. They were designed more for looks than practicality. I also didn't like the fact that they are 100% made in Japan - I prefer to try to buy American. (The Mazda6 is mostly North American content).

    The vast majority of parts and the assembly of the Taurus X is US/Canada. I believe the engines are made in Ohio and the vehicles are assembled outside Chicago.

    A person noted the second row bucket seats in many Taurus Xs. Many Taurus Xs come with a second row bench, at no additional cost, which provides seating for 7 instead of 6.
  • jpzenger1jpzenger1 Member Posts: 8
    The Pacifica, according to many reports, is probably going to be discontinued after this year. That means it will be available with huge discounts, but will have low resale value.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    They were designed more for looks than practicality

    I don't know if I would totally agree with that. Yes, they were designed with appearance in mind, however, they are still very practical. Obviously, a traditional box SUV, like an Explorer, or even TX will have more room, and better visibility.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    You beat me to it, it was only the V6 models, because of the new U660E 6 speed automatic, and even then that one was rated "below average", which is not the same as "very bad".

    The hybrid and other 4 cylinder Camrys are still reliable and recommended by CR.

    Note also that the U660E transmission has not made its way in to their unmentionable people movers. Those still use the U151E 5 speed transmissions. ;) Pre-emptive strike.

    albook: note that premium wasn't ever required. It was recommended for Toyota's 3.3l engines. The new 3.5l in Toyota models is tuned for regular fuel.

    We had this debate in the RAV4 threads (that's a crossover so it's fair game) and someone actually whipped out a manual and read the page where Toyota specifically recommends only regular octane.

    For some reason people make a big deal about that.

    The truedelta site is interesting, I checked it out yesterday. I wonder if they have enough data when, for instance, they say the Toyota Yaris is completely defect-free. I kinda doubt that zero out of their sample size have ever had a single problem.

    Someone's missing something, there's no way 32 2007 Yaris cars have not ever been to the shop, not one of them, ever.

    I seriously doubt that.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    Someone's missing something, there's no way 32 2007 Yaris cars have not ever been to the shop, not one of them, ever.


    Well, there is not much technology in the Yaris. It's as basic as you can get. I guess this means less to go wrong. I will agree that it's funny there have been absolutely no issues.

    I reported my 2005 Mazda6 2.3 5-speed w/37K to Truedelta, and the only issue I have had was my air vents above the stereo system all broke. Other then that, it's been great.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Or maybe, at full blast, the stereo simply overwhelms the supply of air in the front half of the cabin. :D

    Yarises (Yari? Yarii? Yaris?) are simple but still, out of 32 owners not a single one has had a problem?

    I bet problems are just not being reported, or minor issues are being overlooked.

    Even on test drives I tend to find 2-3 defects on any given vehicle, albeit minor. The Saturn Vue I tested had poor fit on the headliner in 4 different places.

    Anyone own one? Come by in your Yaris and if I don't find a defect, I'll buy the beer. :shades:
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Come by in your Yaris and if I don't find a defect, I'll buy the beer.

    I'm 20. Better make it root beer. :)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The DC drinking age used to be 18 (until 1989), but it's up to 21 now, so Root Beer it is. ;)
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Ha, I was 2 at this point in '89. To pull back to the topic of cars, my parents had a 1982 Civic DX 1500 and a 1984 Ford LTD.

    I haven't heard much about the new Saturn Vue, other than the fact that it weighs a ton. 2 tons, actually ;). Anybody had some seat time in that one?
  • albookalbook Member Posts: 1,282
    99- The Camry isn't reccommended anymore on Cr's list because reliablity is low.

    Vad- you can't tell him what vehicle is better for him. And the Passat? Not only would it be more expensive, but what's special about it? I believe it rates average with CR and not good with JD.

    Anyway, we're off topic.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    Someone's missing something, there's no way 32 2007 Yaris cars have not ever been to the shop, not one of them, ever.


    Yeah, that Bose system really kicks... Egh, not so much. It makes my doors rattle when the volume is really high. What can I say, I hear my song and want everyone else to hear it too!!

    The Bose systems on the CX's are far superior to that of my 6
  • albookalbook Member Posts: 1,282
    I don't buy based on reliability either-I feel if you take care of a vehicle, it should do fine. I might lighlty reconsider if reliability is considered terrible.

    I know you have done extensive research on this, but I'd say if you don't need sporty ride then get the Acadia. They are the same size- on the outside. And I feel the ride is better, though not as quick (and gas mileage is better). So you just get more on the inside. That's just hoew I'd do it.
  • chuckhoychuckhoy Member Posts: 420
    The only thing I had to see was that the trips-to-dealer rating for each car was based on less than 100 surveys for each vehicle. Less than 30 for the CX-9. That seems awfully low to have a statistical relevance. I could go onto the website and say that I have a CX-9 and I have been to the dealer 20 times and skew the results wildly. Not exactly scientific.

    At least JD ensures that only owners of the said vehicle get a survey and they only get one to boot. Web-based surveys have little value in my book for these reasons. It still blows my mind that there are people out there that think Wikipeda is the gospel truth. Yikes! Know your sources. Always look at more than one source. If JD, CR and respected websites such as this one all point to the same conclusion, then it is probably true. If they differ, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.
  • vad1819vad1819 Member Posts: 309
    Today we got first snow in VA. I have taken couple quick corners, the Acadia FWD did well, stabilitrack works very impressive. I just keep turning a wheel and stabilitrack is doing his job, it's little bit scary on first place, but you got to believe in it. Well I'm happy, it has good option - heating fluid. It's little bit heavy for quick stop on the ice, on other hand on snow was impressive. The crossing from one line to another with the snow mix between I had no problem at all.(55mph). I didn't feel anything on the steering wheel.
    Any share your experience driving on snow cars like Acadia, CX-9, Highlander ...........
  • freealfasfreealfas Member Posts: 652
    had snow in chicago, our FS fwd no problems, TC gets you away from a stop nicely and driving sanely for the conditions will get you where you want to go safely. I prefer the driver doing his job as opposed to stabilitrak but that's just me...
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    could go onto the website and say that I have a CX-9 and I have been to the dealer 20 times and skew the results wildly. Not exactly scientific.

    When you register your vehicle at Truedelta, you have to enter your VIN and license plate number. Claims are cross referenced with the DMV to ensure accuracy. Questionable claims are stricken from their survey.
  • chuckhoychuckhoy Member Posts: 420
    It just takes a little more work then. Find somebody in the neighborhood that has a CX-9. Take down the plate #. Follow them around until they stop somewhere. Take down the VIN#. Follow them home to get address. Open up the mailbox and see who the letters are addressed to. Not exactly rocket science. If I owned a GMC dealership and I thought a lot of people use this site, this would be a pretty easy thing to do.

    Even easier if you could get a PI to do it. A good one can get you names, addresses and VIN#s for every CX-9 in the state.
  • mrblonde49mrblonde49 Member Posts: 626
    "It just takes a little more work then. Find somebody in the neighborhood that has a CX-9. Take down the plate #. Follow them around until they stop somewhere. Take down the VIN#. Follow them home to get address. Open up the mailbox and see who the letters are addressed to. Not exactly rocket science. If I owned a GMC dealership and I thought a lot of people use this site, this would be a pretty easy thing to do.

    Even easier if you could get a PI to do it. A good one can get you names, addresses and VIN#s for every CX-9 in the state. "

    I think you're watching too many spy movies. :P
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    That is an awful lot of work just to submit one survey. One survey is not going to change a reliability rating on any vehicle, especially once there are hundreds of surveys being recorded.

    Think about what you said. Do you realize how much work that is? How about this: You see your neighbor gets a new vehicle. Check their mail until you see a survey from JD Powers, fill it out being totally negative, or positive, and send it in. Or, how about this: Subscribe to CR, and say you own cars you really don't and bash or praise them. See how silly that sounds?

    The only true way to see a perfect survey, is if service departments were required to submit their work / repair orders directly to some source, and then that source compiled the data and gave results.

    I registered with Truedelta myself, and I don't think they are the most totally flawless, but, I do find their way methods quite useful and so far they seem to be accurate.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    I think you're watching too many spy movies

    Unless chuckhoy is Bond....James Bond or Jack Bauer
  • nxs138nxs138 Member Posts: 481
    Think about what you said. Do you realize how much work that is?

    I agree, it's far too much work to follow someone home and steal their mail in order to fake a survey: the best and easiest way to fudge a reliability survey would be to find out their IP address so you can infiltrate their computer, set up a keystroke program so you can get their passwords for truedelta or CR, then log in yourself using their identity and enter a whole bunch of negative reviews. That way, you can do it in the safety and comfort of your own home!

    See how ingenious I am?!
  • chuckhoychuckhoy Member Posts: 420
    I was just trying to give an example of what I could do. I am not technically savvy enough to pull the "sealing IP address" off. It is amazing what an ex-cop PI can do. I did a little checking up on a future (and thankfully past) brother-in-law on behalf of my wife and I was amazed at what you can find. When it was all said and done I probably knew more about his past than he did. He was adopted and did not know much about his origins. I knew the names his birth parents, place of birth, juevinile record, etc...

    Too bad they never listened to me...
  • volkovvolkov Member Posts: 1,306
    Yep, nothing says "Welcome to the family" like a surreptitious background check!
    Yes, all those things could be done to skew a survey, and are in fact done all the time by large corporations to skew consumer data. This has been proven. Undoubtedly some members of CarSpace are posting as part of their job for the purposes of professional spin. Still, they can't block me from saying here or on
    Truedelta or JD or CR that I had problems with my ABS or transmission, and when many others do the same, there is a trend one can recognize.
    My rule? Use all the safety and reliability sources available as well as general discussions like these forums. No sources should be considered gospel and adhered to rigidly ....not even the gospel!
  • albookalbook Member Posts: 1,282
    Uh-I hate Bose systems. The best I've had experience with are Chrysler's Infinity and Lexus' Mark Levison.

    And others hearing your music is only good in your neighborhood. Not everyone evrywhere wants to hear Country Folk!
  • albookalbook Member Posts: 1,282
    Now I'm really paranoid. I can see your surveilence van outside my window!
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I can post sales numbers for Wendy's cheeseburgers and McDonald's cheeseburgers. Will that prove which is better?

    Nope.

    All it means is that more people on your block are likely to be seen in the same car as you.
  • nxs138nxs138 Member Posts: 481
    I get the point you're trying to make (i.e. more Acadias are sold, thus they must be better), but let's look at this another way:

    GM sold about 264,000 vehicles in November (in the US), YTD = 3.5 million
    Mazda sold about 20,500 (in the US), YTD = 271,000

    So less people buy Mazdas. In fact, for every one Mazda vehicle sold, there are about 12 GM vehicles sold.

    So, using that logic, for every 1 CX-9 there should be 12 Acadias sold. So, 2,870 CX-9s sold in November should equal 34,440 Acadias. But only 6395 Acadias were sold, meaning that the CX-9 must be extremely popular! ;)
  • vad1819vad1819 Member Posts: 309
    Man, It's too deep.
    I gave you real numbers, you give me some speculations of numbers. It's real numbers and another confirm that GM more flexible in sales than Mazda. It's one of reason I got better deal in GM. I even got better deal on Nissan and Toyota than Mazda. They're so proud that some magazine called the CUV of the year, and they thought people will buy because of this. Nope, not the case. Well they will have award, GM will have sales.
  • vad1819vad1819 Member Posts: 309
    "I can post sales numbers for Wendy's cheeseburgers and McDonald's cheeseburgers"
    I'm not proving anything. I just gave you facts and numbers. I'm sharing my opinion. Thanks God it's a free country. God Bless America.
  • chuckhoychuckhoy Member Posts: 420
    Muhahahaha!
  • nxs138nxs138 Member Posts: 481
    I was quoted invoice price for a CX-9. I guess you don't bargain as well as others. I was also quoted near-invoice price for an Acadia, but that was a 2007 model, which I would not buy.

    My numbers were just as real as yours, but I wanted to demonstrate how easy it is to twist any numbers to make a point. In my case, you could argue that the Acadias should be selling a lot more, since GM sells so many more vehicles than Mazda. Acadia sales were only 2.4% of total GM sales in November, while CX-9 sales were 14% of Mazda sales. That's a huge number for Mazda.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I just gave you facts and numbers. I'm sharing my opinion.

    That's a little mixed up. You say its facts and numbers, but also your opinion. Sounds like, based on that, that your opinion is more sales = better vehicle.

    By the way, my response to your posts are opinions too :), we all have them even if they don't agree or coincide with each other. You don't have to clarify that every time; these boards are full of them.
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