My web site has been heavily updated, with all kinds of stuff, including Hella xenons, fender flares, interior air filtration system, conch shell horn, and the full 30k service. Check it out here.
I also did a home-made cold air intake, which some of you may find interesting.
Does anyone know if the C 20 model will be available for the US market? In a post last month by Kens, he said that it gets 32mpg highway. Great! I will wait if it's coming to the US.
What kind of mpg are you guys getting? I am hoping for at least 28 for the Forester S manual. I live at 5,000ft in dry air, does that influence my fuel efficiency? If so, does it make the mpg better or worse?
I doubt the lean-burn 2.0 engine used in the C20 will make it here to the US. If anything, Subaru probably would bring a bigger engine (turbo or H6) for the Forester. Why? Probably because the US market tends to favor larger displacement engines with low-mid range torque. The 2.5L engine used in the Forester/OB and Impreza 2.5RS was designed more or less for the US market.
My long term milage is like 24.2mpg. I drive a Forester S 5-speed on mostly highways but I do drive fairly fast (75-80mph).
I'm not certain how altitude would affect milage. Your Forester is equipped with an air-flow sensor that tries to estimate the mass of air going into your engine. If it's doing it's job, it should recognize less air going in (high altitudes) and reduce the fuel as well. It might be a wash. Anyone else?
Katherine- I've been averaging 26.5 mpg with my Forester S 5-speed. I drive on mostly highways and drive 70-75mph. However, other Forester owners have been averaging notably less (22-23 mpg). A lot has to do with how and where you drive and your avg load. I personnaly have always done better than the EPA estimates on all my vehicles. If you're the same, you should come close to your 28 mpg goal.
Yes that's right... I've been reading tons about the vibration in the Forester, and ever since I figured out how to get rid of it in mine, I've loved it.
The vibration sound that seems to be coming from the engine, or anywhere else in the car is likely due to the roof rack on the car. Take off the rack, and only use when necessary. This should fix the problem...
If your driving without the rack already, well sorry can't help you there.
I agree with Ken. The 2.0l engine is for markets where gas costs $4 per gallon. We're likely to get either a turbo or an H6 3.0l engine.
I'm getting a solid 26mpg since April, so I'm more than happy. You'll appreciate the extra pep a 2.5l gives you over the mostly 2.0l competition.
Forester stands alone in its class giving good performance in unison with mid 20's gas mileage.
Dry air is always better than humid air, but high elevations means the air is less dense so you'd make less power. The engine has to work harder, but it will run less rich (i.e. less fuel in the mix). My guess is these will offset each other.
I'm not sure about the Forester but on my 00' OB Ltd wagon the glovebox light only comes on when the headlights or running lights are on. Don't ask me why this is but I know that for the longest time I couldn't figure out why there wasn't a glovebox light. Hope this helps.
I went to Jiffy-Lube yesterday for the first oil change for my 2001 Forester S, and was turned away. Seems their 'technicians' were unable to verify the proper oil filter for the 2001 (not on their list yet). Obviously I'm no mechanic, yet I'm assuming that the filter must be the same as is on the 2000. Correct? (FYI,I have read comments on another list re what 'brands' of filters are best. For now I just want to verify that what fits the 2000 also fits the 2001.)
Also, has anyone heard of the release of Subaru's Dog Guard/Compartment Divider for the 2001 Forester? On 7/28 Subaru informed me via e-mail that "we expect to have this part available for dealerships to order by early September". Online vendors haven't replied to my recent purchase inquiries (I'm probably too early). Anyway, please let me know if any of you have heard or seen anything more than this.
The engine is the same Phase II that's been used since the '99 model. Those Jiffy Lube techs are morons. Change the oil yourself using my instructions.
One caveat: get the Subaru OE filter. It's just $4 from QSubaru and comes with a new drain plug gasket.
I know my instructions have a Fram filter, but I've changed since to the OE (a Purolator, BTW), since Fram actually has more complaints than most other brands, and you don't get a drain plug gasket with aftermarket filters. There is also no price advantage with those.
Follow the link above to QSubaru. Darlene can answer the dog divider question and offers the best prices to boot.
Thanks to all you folks, especially juice, hutch, Bob, etc. I've read the entire board, and much other info over the past few weeks and this week I will take delivery of my 2001 Forester S, premium package, 5-speed manual tranny, in beautiful Silverthorne. I live pretty much equidistant from several large markets (Denver, Salt Lake City, Albuquerque) and thus specified what I wanted and let the dealers come to me. Am paying 2% over actual invoice and it's actually at the closest dealer to me (100 miles vs. up to 300) so I feel good about that. I can barely wait for Wednesday afternoon!
Sweet. It's a great car (wagon??? SUV???...who cares). I have a Silverthorn L that I picked up about 2 weeks ago. This color is extremely "pearlescent" (sp??), even though it is a metallic. It looks great in all lighting conditions.
It's tough, but remember to break it in easy. I'm only half-way thru the 1000mi break-in.
I'm sorry, I haven't been in this area for quite a while. Kinda got stuck (bad word for a Soob owner to use) over in the Owners Group area.
If I said or did anything that helped you make up your mind, I'm quite pleased. I know you'll be happy with your purchase. Looking forward to seeing your photo on the Juice-Page. Sounds like you live in or near the mountains .. that should make for a fun winter.
I found out last winter that my 99-s will go through some serious snow. You've got a "LSD" so it should be even better. BTW some winter wonderland Soob photo's would be appreciated by a lot of people that frequent these pages. -hutch
My 2000 Forester S does experience this annoying vibration in second gear around 25 mph. In addition, my clear coat has been penetrated by sap or tar or something. Is this covered by the warranty? Any advice on these 2 issues? Many thanks.
I am getting my 2001 subaru tomorrow. Drove like a dream on a test ride before I bought it. I am use to a Honda accord and wanted to try a suv, but did not like the feel of the crv Honda. I am getting the supreme and I look the sun roof. I am sure I will love it. It is my first Subaru
In the past week I have fully convinced myself that the Forester S with Premium package is my next vehicle. The dealer lease rate is 7.8%. Has anyone heard of a better lease rate coming in the near future? Thanks, Mike
Driving on the beach, OTOH, yes. Start here and follow the OBX link. Click on Next at the bottom of each page; there are more than a dozen beach driving photos.
Lease usually is worse than financing, and in most cases makes sense only if you can deduct it as part of your business expenses. You can read a lot of literature on that subject. Although the idea "buy appreciating assets, lease depreciating ones" sounds good, the reality is that dealers and banks make more money on leases than on sales. I personally follow this route: I buy appreciating assets (bonds/stocks), wait 3-5 years, than pay cash for a car using the proceeds from those assets. Over past decade it worked like a charm, but of course it was a bull market.
I think that leasing makes sense for people who intend to keep the vehicle no more than 3-4 years. After that, it's not really worth it. Of course, leasing also does allow one to enjoy a vehicle that may be normally out of once price range, but at a cost, of course.
BTW, my strategy is similar to yours and Kate's. My current vehicles were purchased with cash. I learnt this from my parents years ago. :-)
Drew/aling Townhall Community Leader/Vans Conference
I look at it in regard to total cost of ownership in a given period. One can make out better by leasing if the residual value is higher than expected actual value and if a lease incentive is given in the form of low cost of money. I just turned in 97 Mazda 626 off of lease in July. The residual was $12,700 compared to sale value of about $10,500. Also, I got about 2.9% money on the lease. So, if I purchase this car in 97 at about 7% interest, paid 8% sales tax on the entire vehicle, and then sold it after 3 years at $10,500, I clearly would have taken a larger loss (all vehicles are losses ie, depreciating asset) than if I leased it for the same period. Sometimes it is a hard call on which way to go. Obviously, one needs to meet all other criteria, ie, annual mileage, normal wear and tear, etc. The close call may be what you can get for the car vs the residual on a lease. But, clearly on a lease, one only pays sales tax on the value of the car they use. I believe I read recently that about 30% of all new cars are now leased. Just food for thought. Regards, Mike
There are certain hard to quantify benefits with leasing. In some states, you can avoid a car property tax.
Plus, some residuals are heavily inflated, plus there are sometimes incentives for leases only (with no similar rebates on sales).
Generally, though, long term ownership will cost you less in the long run. That plus I heavily customize my vehicles, so there's just no way I'd let a 2 year old car with tons of add-ons go.
2.9% rate was a really good deal. The whole issue of buy (cash) vs lease vs finance is a complicated matter, because you need to account for "opportunity cost", that is, how much would you have made with the money on the market. This is of course unknown variable at the time of lease/purchase, and you can only judge your choice a few years later.
For me lease was never a good option because I a) put too many miles on a car; b)like to be able to customize the car c) prefer to keep cars longer (8-10 years) d) found that insurance rates are usually lower for owned vs leased cars -- at least was when I checked e) just hate the idea of being restricted on wear and tear It just so happened that for cars I liked there was no special deals offered at the time of purchase. Therefore I paid cash. To alleviate the opportunity cost, I usually start investing into a "new car fund" immediately after buying one. I invest monthly about the same amount that I would have paid if I financed the car at the ongoing rate at that time. That strategy worked very well so far. Sort of saving plan enforced by self-discipline.
However, if a very good financing rate would have came along, I would've financed instead of cash. One fellow reported on the Escape forum that he got Isuzu Rodeo at 48 mo 0.0% (zero-zero!!!) rate, with 0 (zero!!!) down payment! I'll take 0% rate over cash payment any day!
Good luck with your shopping! If you can find a Forester for 2.9% finance rate, let me know, I'll get one for my dad.
I am confused on audio upgrades. Are the speaker and tweeter upgrades dealer or factory installed? Is the Premium Sound package dealer or factory installed? Is there a discount for it? Is it worth the money? Thanks, Mike
I installed the tweeter kit in our '00 OB. Of course, they were purchase from QSubaru. Very easy to install. I posted text instructions in the Owners area under modifications.
It can be ordered with the kit installed - or you can add it to a car on the lot. A dealer will install it for you - but that's no fun!
I believe they are "Port" installed. That is, when it comes into port, these options are installed. However, the dealer can install, but be carefull as they might want to charge MSRP for the parts plus labor.
You can get the upgraded speakers and tweeter kit from a subaru parts wholesaler (like QSubaru -http://qsubaru.homepage.com). They are real easy to install (no need to remove the door panels!!!).
I went aftermarket (Crutchfield) and install was easy, or you can shop your local stores and get sometimes free installation to boot.
I don't know how the upgraded speakers sound. I upgraded the 4 speakers (doors) and the base cassette player with a single CD player. Sound is very good, even with low-end equipment.
Today, I ordered a Sondona Red Forester S with Premium package and automatic. For accessories, I ordered the Armrest extension and the Premium Package III. I told them I needed delivery end of November, when my Bravada goes off lease. I was able to order at dealer invoice, since, my place of work has a Subaru VIP program. It is definitely a different vehicle compared to the Bravada, but, I think we will like it. I went with the 3 year 15K mile per year lease. It is very interesting how they sell these cars. Absolutely no pressure, very attentive and knowledgeable sales personnel. I believe these cars sell themselves. They did not even want a down payment. Mike
I am new to this, but have enjoyed reading all the info. I am laboring over the decision of whether to buy a Forrester or CRV. I live in the country and have a gravel road / big hill to climb to get out in the winter, about a 40 degree incline. We couldn't make it out several days, when it became ice-covered last winter with our Accord and Camry, only Ford Pickup 150 with 4x4 got out! I don't want ot buy a new SUV and have the same problem. Any experience out there...Is the limited slip worth the extra $2000 you have to pay for the Forrester S? Would it help insure my getting out, or is it only beneficial for trailer towing, as one dealer told me? Any other advice to help in my decision would be appreciated.
Any traction aid, such as a limited slip differential is good. The Forester S offers much more than the LSD for the extra $2000. It has upgraded tires and wheels, upgraded rear disk brakes, 6-disk in-dash CD, cold-weather package which includes heated seats, heated outside mirrors and windshield wiper deicer, remote entry and variable intermittent front wipers.
Those are all nice "creature-comfort" features, which is where the extra $2000 goes, not just the LSD.
If you don't need or want all those features, a Forester L (without the LSD) will work just fine. There are many non-LSD Subaru owners who are very happy with the traction they get. The LSD is extra traction insurance for the worst traction surfaces. If you want maximum traction, then LSD is what you want.
The only thing the Honda CRV has over the Forester is more room. It's a bigger vehicle. Other than that, the Forester wins hands down. Virtually every magazine road test, from Consumer Reports to all the auto buff books, will confirm this.
The Forester is more comfortable (except maybe the rear seats), more powerful, and offers more features. And, it handles much better, and is a better touring (highway) vehicle.
Also, since you're concerned about traction, the Subaru is also the clear winner here too. The CRV uses a on-demand 4WD, meaning it is front-wheel drive until it senses slippage. That means it is constantly going in-and-out of 4WD in marginal traction conditions. There is no LSD offered.
The Forester is always in 4WD (or, if you prefer AWD). There is always some traction going to all wheels -- all the time. The power may shift front-to-rear (and with LSD equipped models, left-to-right in the rear), but you always have some power at all wheels, all the time. This is a much better system than the CRVs in poor traction conditions.
I agree with Bob, and my vote is for the Forester also. The hill you have to climb is quite steep, and with even a little uneven traction on one side, it sounds like you can get stuck pretty quickly if you loose momentum when the front wheels slip (as the CR-V's will at first, at least until the rear ones kick in). I also think the rear LSD would benefit you greatly in these conditions, for reasons that Bob has clearly spelt out above.
Best of luck! Drew/aling Townhall Community Leader/Vans Conference
Thanks for the input on the LSD. I'm leaning towards the Forrester S, it seems to be better all around for my needs. Will the car last me as long as a Honda? I keep my cars for 10 -12 years or so. How does reliability stack up next to the Honda? And what about resale value, if I'm not happy? I'm trying to cover all bases, as I lost a lot when I sold my 2-year old Camry. (which I loved) Any experience out there will be appreciated...Thanks again.
Subaru has consistently scored very well (in Consumre Reports) for many years as far as reliability goes compared to the other Japanese brands. I'd say that they are just as reliable, or perhaps even more so with the AWD system since they have had decades of experience with it.
Hey, I had a Camry too ('99 XLE V6 - fully loaded), but I gave that up about 11 months ago partly for something better as I was not happy with its performance in the snow for my area.
Hope this helps! Drew/aling Townhall Community Leader/Vans Conference
Since you keep vehicles for 8 - 10 years, I would definitely opt for the Forester S. The added creature-comfort features that the S has, will make the long haul just that more enjoyable.
I recommend S+ vs S: it's only $895 more, but it gives you huge moonroof, side airbags (!), and better-looking (IMO) wheels. However, if you like two-tone paint more than monotone, than go for S.
Mike: you ought to love the S Premium. That moonroof is beyond words! It should also be as quick as the Bravada, offer almost as much utility, all while returning mid 20's fuel mileage the Olds simply can't match.
Congrats, and please come back and post impressions after driving it for a while.
Susan: Go for the S Premium. I'm so jealous of that moonroof! 12 years from now you'll still be glad you paid the extra cash. You'll enjoy it for years and get better resale in the end.
I've driven my L model on soft sand and traction was great, and the rear LSD just adds an extra margin of safety. I also drove a 2000 S model at Edmunds Live and it walked right through the off road section without even bottoming out.
Susan - For sake of the record, Consumer Reports ranked the Forester as the 4th most reliable SUV available in the US. For comparison, the CR-V was ranked no.1, and the RAV4 was no.2. I've forgotten who was no.3. The difference between 1st and 4th places are not large enough that you should hold it against the Forester.
Go for the S. While the styling will get old in time, the more useful features will last. It just dawned on me the other day that I may be lazy enough to want more of those luxury items by the time I've driven my car into the ground. I may be in my 40's and things like heated seats may be more important to me then. ;-)
He's referring to the reliability data only. Overall, the Forester scored in 1st, by a comfortable margin.
The current issue updates both reviews if you'd like to read more about it. The last review of the CR-V was with 20 less horsepower, and their previous Forester had the Phase I engine with 4 lb-ft less torque. Their ratings didn't change much, though both were quicker.
With the radical departure for the 2002 Impreza, some people may prefer the current conservative look over the new styling (though I have not seen it yet).
-juice
PS Check out my short shift kit - I used the lever from the SPT kit, and it fits. Look here and follow the link
Juice, The Bravada and the Forester are definitely (2) different vehicles. The Bravada definitely feels more rugged and solid, but, of course the downside is weight, lower gas mileage, etc. I do like the way the Forester steers, very easy. My wife and I took road tests on two separate occasions. We tried it up hill. Pulled out into heavy traffic. Road in the back seat (had to make sure the front seat was not all the way back). Still would have liked a 6 cylinder, but, I think we can manage with the 4. Very torquey off the line. I got the Premium Sound System III, which I hope is much better than the stock system. Any experience with this sound system? I will update my impressions when I get the vehicle in late November.
The Bravada is a truck trying to be car-like. It's the best model on that GM platform, and also has their best full-time AWD system, but it surely is a truck.
The Forester is really just a wagon that performs truck functions fairly well, without most of the trade-offs. Thing is, that's exactly what most people need.
The engine is easily modified if you want more power. I've routed a cold air intake from the fender well. Graphs I've seen show that air is 10 to 15 degrees cooler (and more dense) than in the engine compartment.
Lots of folks do the UR pulleys, though reviews are mixed. You can also do the exhaust, but it can get pretty loud (boxers growl nicely, though).
If you really want to go farther, Minnan makes an intercooled supercharger for a claimed 230 horses, all in a 3125 pound vehicle!
Premium sounds is better - you get real two-way speakers instead of dual cones, plus a tweeter in each front door, and the sub woofer under the driver's seat. The reception of the stock head unit (80 watt Clarion) is excellent - much better than my wife's Mazda.
I agree with juice. I actually just had the windshield on my 98 Forester replaced. During the two years of it's life, it was hit by countless times by pebbles and other debris. Given the upright position of the glass (and my following too close to the vehicle in front of me) I think it's inevitable. There were some times when the impact sound was so loud I thought it was over, but when I looked all that was there was a tiny scratch.
The one rock that did my windshield in hit VERY hard right at the bottom of the passenger side. It left a 1" crack that quickly grew to about 18".
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Comments
I also did a home-made cold air intake, which some of you may find interesting.
-juice
What kind of mpg are you guys getting? I am hoping for at least 28 for the Forester S manual. I live at 5,000ft in dry air, does that influence my fuel efficiency? If so, does it make the mpg better or worse?
BTW, enjoyed your site, Juice.
_Katherine
I doubt the lean-burn 2.0 engine used in the C20 will make it here to the US. If anything, Subaru probably would bring a bigger engine (turbo or H6) for the Forester. Why? Probably because the US market tends to favor larger displacement engines with low-mid range torque. The 2.5L engine used in the Forester/OB and Impreza 2.5RS was designed more or less for the US market.
My long term milage is like 24.2mpg. I drive a Forester S 5-speed on mostly highways but I do drive fairly fast (75-80mph).
I'm not certain how altitude would affect milage. Your Forester is equipped with an air-flow sensor that tries to estimate the mass of air going into your engine. If it's doing it's job, it should recognize less air going in (high altitudes) and reduce the fuel as well. It might be a wash. Anyone else?
-Frank P.
The vibration sound that seems to be coming from the engine, or anywhere else in the car is likely due to the roof rack on the car. Take off the rack, and only use when necessary. This should fix the problem...
If your driving without the rack already, well sorry can't help you there.
I'm getting a solid 26mpg since April, so I'm more than happy. You'll appreciate the extra pep a 2.5l gives you over the mostly 2.0l competition.
Forester stands alone in its class giving good performance in unison with mid 20's gas mileage.
Dry air is always better than humid air, but high elevations means the air is less dense so you'd make less power. The engine has to work harder, but it will run less rich (i.e. less fuel in the mix). My guess is these will offset each other.
-juice
Stephen
(FYI,I have read comments on another list re what 'brands' of filters are best. For now I just want to verify that what fits the 2000 also fits the 2001.)
Also, has anyone heard of the release of Subaru's Dog Guard/Compartment Divider for the 2001 Forester? On 7/28 Subaru informed me via e-mail that "we expect to have this part available for dealerships to order by early September". Online vendors haven't replied to my recent purchase inquiries (I'm probably too early). Anyway, please let me know if any of you have heard or seen anything more than this.
Thank you.
One caveat: get the Subaru OE filter. It's just $4 from QSubaru and comes with a new drain plug gasket.
I know my instructions have a Fram filter, but I've changed since to the OE (a Purolator, BTW), since Fram actually has more complaints than most other brands, and you don't get a drain plug gasket with aftermarket filters. There is also no price advantage with those.
Follow the link above to QSubaru. Darlene can answer the dog divider question and offers the best prices to boot.
Congrats on your new Forester.
-juice
It's tough, but remember to break it in easy. I'm only half-way thru the 1000mi break-in.
-Tony
You got the premium? I'm so jealous of that moonroof. I wish they sold them back in '98! Darn nice color too!
-juice
Hendo
I add to it every week or two (50+ pages and counting), so if you ever take any real interesting shots, feel free to share them.
I'm proud to say I get over 300 hits per day!
-juice
If I said or did anything that helped you make up your mind, I'm quite pleased. I know you'll be happy with your purchase. Looking forward to seeing your photo on the Juice-Page. Sounds like you live in or near the mountains .. that should make for a fun winter.
I found out last winter that my 99-s will go through some serious snow. You've got a "LSD" so it should be even better. BTW some winter wonderland Soob photo's would be appreciated by a lot of people that frequent these pages.
-hutch
I doubt the warranty covers the paint, unless it's a flaw. But I would have the gearbox checked out.
BTW, lots of beach driving this past week, and plenty of photos coming soon to prove it. AWD rules!
-juice
I also drove the CR-V and preferred the Forester. You'll appreciate the extra torque and the handling.
Congrats, those premiums are sweet, with that huge moonroof. Check out this Motorweek review, they can't say enough good things about it.
It actually airs on TV, and I have it taped. If you ever attend one of the events in the DC area, I'll let you borrow it.
Also, grab the latest Consumer Reports. Forester is still their #1 choice.
-juice
Thanks,
Mike
Driving on the beach, OTOH, yes. Start here and follow the OBX link. Click on Next at the bottom of each page; there are more than a dozen beach driving photos.
-juice
-juice
BTW, my strategy is similar to yours and Kate's. My current vehicles were purchased with cash. I learnt this from my parents years ago. :-)
Drew/aling
Townhall Community Leader/Vans Conference
Regards,
Mike
There are certain hard to quantify benefits with leasing. In some states, you can avoid a car property tax.
Plus, some residuals are heavily inflated, plus there are sometimes incentives for leases only (with no similar rebates on sales).
Generally, though, long term ownership will cost you less in the long run. That plus I heavily customize my vehicles, so there's just no way I'd let a 2 year old car with tons of add-ons go.
-juice
For me lease was never a good option because I
a) put too many miles on a car;
b)like to be able to customize the car
c) prefer to keep cars longer (8-10 years)
d) found that insurance rates are usually lower for owned vs leased cars -- at least was when I checked
e) just hate the idea of being restricted on wear and tear
It just so happened that for cars I liked there was no special deals offered at the time of purchase. Therefore I paid cash. To alleviate the opportunity cost, I usually start investing into a "new car fund" immediately after buying one. I invest monthly about the same amount that I would have paid if I financed the car at the ongoing rate at that time. That strategy worked very well so far. Sort of saving plan enforced by self-discipline.
However, if a very good financing rate would have came along, I would've financed instead of cash. One fellow reported on the Escape forum that he got Isuzu Rodeo at 48 mo 0.0% (zero-zero!!!) rate, with 0 (zero!!!) down payment! I'll take 0% rate over cash payment any day!
Good luck with your shopping! If you can find a Forester for 2.9% finance rate, let me know, I'll get one for my dad.
Get one for your dad? You must be pretty generous to family members. Hey - I'm your long-lost cousin juice, remember me?
-juice
Thanks,
Mike
It can be ordered with the kit installed - or you can add it to a car on the lot. A dealer will install it for you - but that's no fun!
-Brian/subearu
You can get the upgraded speakers and tweeter kit from a subaru parts wholesaler (like QSubaru -http://qsubaru.homepage.com). They are real easy to install (no need to remove the door panels!!!).
I went aftermarket (Crutchfield) and install was easy, or you can shop your local stores and get sometimes free installation to boot.
I don't know how the upgraded speakers sound. I upgraded the 4 speakers (doors) and the base cassette player with a single CD player. Sound is very good, even with low-end equipment.
-Tony
Mike
Those are all nice "creature-comfort" features, which is where the extra $2000 goes, not just the LSD.
If you don't need or want all those features, a Forester L (without the LSD) will work just fine. There are many non-LSD Subaru owners who are very happy with the traction they get. The LSD is extra traction insurance for the worst traction surfaces. If you want maximum traction, then LSD is what you want.
Bob
The Forester is more comfortable (except maybe the rear seats), more powerful, and offers more features. And, it handles much better, and is a better touring (highway) vehicle.
Also, since you're concerned about traction, the Subaru is also the clear winner here too. The CRV uses a on-demand 4WD, meaning it is front-wheel drive until it senses slippage. That means it is constantly going in-and-out of 4WD in marginal traction conditions. There is no LSD offered.
The Forester is always in 4WD (or, if you prefer AWD). There is always some traction going to all wheels -- all the time. The power may shift front-to-rear (and with LSD equipped models, left-to-right in the rear), but you always have some power at all wheels, all the time. This is a much better system than the CRVs in poor traction conditions.
Bob
Best of luck!
Drew/aling
Townhall Community Leader/Vans Conference
Hey, I had a Camry too ('99 XLE V6 - fully loaded), but I gave that up about 11 months ago partly for something better as I was not happy with its performance in the snow for my area.
Hope this helps!
Drew/aling
Townhall Community Leader/Vans Conference
Bob
Congrats, and please come back and post impressions after driving it for a while.
Susan: Go for the S Premium. I'm so jealous of that moonroof! 12 years from now you'll still be glad you paid the extra cash. You'll enjoy it for years and get better resale in the end.
I've driven my L model on soft sand and traction was great, and the rear LSD just adds an extra margin of safety. I also drove a 2000 S model at Edmunds Live and it walked right through the off road section without even bottoming out.
-juice
Go for the S. While the styling will get old in time, the more useful features will last. It just dawned on me the other day that I may be lazy enough to want more of those luxury items by the time I've driven my car into the ground. I may be in my 40's and things like heated seats may be more important to me then. ;-)
The April 99 issue (which rated all 2000 models) listed the Forester as their #1 pick of 'Small SUVs.'
Have you seen something more recent?
The current issue updates both reviews if you'd like to read more about it. The last review of the CR-V was with 20 less horsepower, and their previous Forester had the Phase I engine with 4 lb-ft less torque. Their ratings didn't change much, though both were quicker.
With the radical departure for the 2002 Impreza, some people may prefer the current conservative look over the new styling (though I have not seen it yet).
-juice
PS Check out my short shift kit - I used the lever from the SPT kit, and it fits. Look here and follow the link
The Bravada and the Forester are definitely (2) different vehicles. The Bravada definitely feels more rugged and solid, but, of course the downside is weight, lower gas mileage, etc. I do like the way the Forester steers, very easy. My wife and I took road tests on two separate occasions. We tried it up hill. Pulled out into heavy traffic. Road in the back seat (had to make sure the front seat was not all the way back). Still would have liked a 6 cylinder, but, I think we can manage with the 4. Very torquey off the line. I got the Premium Sound System III, which I hope is much better than the stock system. Any experience with this sound system? I will update my impressions when I get the vehicle in late November.
The Forester is really just a wagon that performs truck functions fairly well, without most of the trade-offs. Thing is, that's exactly what most people need.
The engine is easily modified if you want more power. I've routed a cold air intake from the fender well. Graphs I've seen show that air is 10 to 15 degrees cooler (and more dense) than in the engine compartment.
Lots of folks do the UR pulleys, though reviews are mixed. You can also do the exhaust, but it can get pretty loud (boxers growl nicely, though).
If you really want to go farther, Minnan makes an intercooled supercharger for a claimed 230 horses, all in a 3125 pound vehicle!
Premium sounds is better - you get real two-way speakers instead of dual cones, plus a tweeter in each front door, and the sub woofer under the driver's seat. The reception of the stock head unit (80 watt Clarion) is excellent - much better than my wife's Mazda.
-juice
Thanks,
Mike
Carlex supplies windshields to several japanese manufacturers, including Subaru and Mazda.
-juice
I agree with juice. I actually just had the windshield on my 98 Forester replaced. During the two years of it's life, it was hit by countless times by pebbles and other debris. Given the upright position of the glass (and my following too close to the vehicle in front of me) I think it's inevitable. There were some times when the impact sound was so loud I thought it was over, but when I looked all that was there was a tiny scratch.
The one rock that did my windshield in hit VERY hard right at the bottom of the passenger side. It left a 1" crack that quickly grew to about 18".
I had it replaced with a Carlex windshield.
Ken