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Pontiac G8 vs BMW 3-Series vs Lexus IS 350

rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
edited April 2014 in BMW
Is the new Pontiac G8, going to steal sales from the more traditional ELLPS sedans with it's big V8 power and luxurious interior for a fraction of the price ?

I personally think it will steal some sales from the others because not all people are worried about emblems and care more about the product. :)

Rocky
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Comments

  • lokkilokki Posts: 1,200
    Prince Charming (or the the G8) always looks good in the publicity photos.

    Many's the pretender who has claimed the title before, only to eventually go back to his job in the rental car trade.

    We'll have to wait till we get a chance to dance with this one a little before we start dumping our current heros.

    Oh, and regarding:

    I personally think it will steal some sales from the others because not all people are worried about emblems and care more about the product

    You might want to ask some of the executives at Volkswagen about that. They have some recent experience on that point.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    Prince Charming (or the the G8) always looks good in the publicity photos.

    It won't in person. This car is essentially the Holden Commodore which was "World Car of the Year" I think.

    Many's the pretender who has claimed the title before, only to eventually go back to his job in the rental car trade.

    The G8, will not be a rental special because GM, is only going to import by demand for them. ;)

    We'll have to wait till we get a chance to dance with this one a little before we start dumping our current heros.

    That is fair enough. I think you will respect it a lot. Your getting one hell of a lot of car for your dollar. ;)

    You might want to ask some of the executives at Volkswagen about that. They have some recent experience on that point.

    Well VW, made a mistake by not giving the Passat more power. The "W" engine was a great one but VW made the mistake of not giving it more power via turbo charger. If the Passat would of made 320 hp. had a manual option, and perhaps a tighter sports suspension it would be more widely respected. I do think the current VW Passat is a respectable ELLPS car but it's sure not class leading. It's kinda like the Acura TL, it does nothing exceptionally well but does enough well to be desired. The one thing the Passat does very well is protecting it's occupants in crashes and that my friend you can't put a price tag on. ;)

    Rocky
  • rhmassrhmass Posts: 263
    Somehow I don't think the poster meant VW Passat, but rather the Touareg to make his point.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    Well if he meant the Touareg, that was pretty sarcastic of him.

    Rocky
  • he meant the Phaeton.

    People care about the badge.

    Nobody wanted a 70k Volkswagen. And it was a good one.

    At that price point, why have the A8.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    he meant the Phaeton.

    That was an Audi A8. Has Audi always bee prestigious ? I remember in the 80's they weren't all that special to own because they had lots of eletrical problems but I guess because they are German they will be forgiven easier. :confuse:

    People care about the badge.

    I respectfully disagree. People that have money in the bank don't near as much as someone who has every dime spent come pay day so he/she can say "look at me". ;)

    Nobody wanted a 70k Volkswagen. And it was a good one.

    Well Volkswagen, customer service was ranked dead last a few years ago. It also was a rebadged Audi 8 and they did nothing really to distinguish them.

    At that price point, why have the A8.

    The Audi, had better customer service records and the A8 was arguable the better lookin' one of the two. Well in my eyes it was. ;)

    However this is suppose to be a G8 vs Lexus IS 350 & BMW 335i. The bottom line is this if someone is shopping for the best car in the $30K range they will buy the as loaded $32-33K G8. The base models of both the Lexus IS 350 and BMW 335i costs more dough. The base Lexus IS 350 is $3K more than a loaded G8. The BMW 335i cost's $38K but just like the Lexus, how many base models is either company going to produce because most folks will want at least some features.

    Rocky
  • Not a chance... The Pontiac G8 competes with the Avalon, the Lucerne, the Impala, the Ford 50..err..Taurus and the Nissan Maxima.

    The Passat is a midsized car. The Pontiac is NOT an ELLPS--period. It's a full-sized sedan. It may even be a full-sized performance sedan. However, Pontiac is not nor has it ever been a luxury brand.
  • Guys, the G8 is a LARGE car, not puny like a 3 series Bimmer.
    Wheels magazine here in Aus put it up against a 5 series Bimmer.
    As I have said elsewhere here, It out handled, out grunted, out valued the Bimmer by a long way.
    It was a v8 Bimmer, not a 6, against a v8 Calais.
    The SS Commodore are selling like crazy here atm, I hope there are some left for you guys next year :)
  • subearusubearu Posts: 3,613
    Well noted. When I saw the G8 at the Chicago auto show I too wondered about it's size comparison. It's kind of hard to gauge it when you can't sit in it :) . Any sites with specs and dimensions of the Commodore that compare it to the 5 (and others it competes with down under)? Something like the Compare tool here on Edmunds.

    -Brian
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    Not a chance... The Pontiac G8 competes with the Avalon, the Lucerne, the Impala, the Ford 50..err..Taurus and the Nissan Maxima.

    What ??????

    You are comparing apples to oranges. Again allargon, is a badge more important to you than the product ? I know many ELLPS buyers are more worried about the emblem on their cars than what the car has in terms of quality, reliability, performance, etc. The Pontiac G8, clearly has a interior that is as good if not better than the Mercedes C class when it comes to design and touch. The BMW 335i's interior isn't much more luxurious than the G8's which should tell you something's wrong with this picture. Maybe the Bimmer and Merc are living to much off of past success ???? The G8 is a high performance RWD performance sedan that has enough luxury to be a ELLPS car but because it wears a Pontiac badge instead of a Lexus or BMW it won't get the credit it deserves. This doesn't mean it shouldn't be considred by cross shoppers looking for the best product for their dollar. ;)

    Now don't get me a wrong I do find the new BMW M3 to be quite attractive but by gosh how much is it going to cost ? Would I like to own a 08' BMW M3 ? Ya betchya !!! The last generation M3 didn't give the customer value like the mid to late 90's E36? ;)

    The Passat is a midsized car.

    And ? The CTS, Acura TL, Infiniti G35 are more midsize so what's your point ?

    The Pontiac is NOT an ELLPS--period.

    I agree all because the badge is preventing it. The greatness of the product as I explained above says otherwise. It has as much if not more technology, quality, fit & finish, than some of the ELLPS cars I described above. ;)

    It may even be a full-sized performance sedan.

    What ? This car is like 6 or 7 inches shorter than a current Grand Prix. That might be fullsize to BMW owners but not in the rest of the automotive world.

    However, Pontiac is not nor has it ever been a luxury brand.

    I agree. That isn't what I'm arguing. You are making this a brand war. I'm simpily comparing product not badges. If you step back for a momment and take off the badges then perhaps you could then do a fair comparo. ;)

    I personally am confident enough in myself that I don't need to wear other peoples names on my [non-permissible content removed] or have a certain badge on my car in order to make a fair judgement about it. I guess some people need the badge more than the product? The G8, perhaps offers the best overall value in this comparo of performance, luxury, reliability, fit and finish, a long with by far best in class value which you can take that to the bank. ;)

    Rocky
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,664
    Rocky,

    I had 2 Pontiac Grand Prix in my life. Nice cars. Now I can afford a BMW. Hope to get to the Ferrari/Bentley level real soon.

    Why would I now buy a G8?????

    Eye of the Tiger, Rock. Eye of the beholder!

    I don't care about "Stinking Badges!" either. Get in the car and drive. Feel the difference. When I shop, I will always try US in the future to see how they are doing. Cadillac doesn't do it for me so last time, I left the edgy brand out.

    Regards,
    OW
  • subearusubearu Posts: 3,613
    What ? This car is like 6 or 7 inches shorter than a current Grand Prix

    Check out http://www.velocityjournal.com/journal/2008/pontiac/16827sp.html for G8 specs. The wheelbase is actually a good 2+" larger on the G8 than the current GXP. Length is about 6" shorter than the current GXP. Both width and height are a smidge more on the G8. Interior room is very similar as well.

    For comparing to the 5 series, check out this http://www.edmunds.com/apps/nvc/edmunds/VehicleComparison?styleid=100761595&styl- eid=100814243&styleid=100703682&styleid=100793075&maxvehicles=5&refid=&op=3&tab=- specs

    The 5 series is actually shorter in length than the current GXP, but the wheelbase is a bit longer in the 5. Threw in the 3 series for reference and the Charger since it will likely be competing with the G8 as well.

    -Brian
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    Okay so it's a couple of inches shorter. I saw another site a edmunds.com member posted that showed their was a 6 or 7 inch difference. :confuse:

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    I've driven BMW's in the past and yes they are nice cars. Obviously your cash flow is much better than mine so yeah if you can afford Ferrari's and Bentley's you have reached the top. ;) Congrats..... :)

    My point in this comparo is to show us poor folks the G8 is a great ELLPS alternative without the badge but with a lot of goods. The Bimmer, is yes faster and probably handles better but it also costs thousands more just like the Lexus IS 350. The G8 is a drivers car with a great interior, lots of performance, for your buck. The Cadillac CTS, is all that and more. It has the badge and even more luxury. I'd love to own cars like your talkin' about like Ferrari's Aston Martins, Bentley's but even if I was that wealthy I'd never spend that kind of money on a car. The Cadillac XLR, Viper, Vette SS, would be as expensive as I'd go except I'd probably buy a mint Red 1994' Ferrari 512 TR my dream car. :shades:

    Rocky
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,664
    Rock, you have good taste! I also want you to know that I really respect all of your viewpoints.

    I am heartbroken that the US can not get out of it's own way in the automotive industry and spends way more cash developing bunker buster bombs that cost more than 10 years of all of Bently, Ferrari and Astin Martin Sales combined for a week of destruction in Iraq back in Dessert Storm.

    Regards,
    OW
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    Is the Lexus IS 350 ever going to get a hybrid motor ? I know a couple of years ago that was a rumor and was curious if this is in the pipeline or has Lexus decided their is no market for a high performance hybrid ?

    Rocky
  • rikuriku Posts: 10
    highly unlikely since the IS-F is coming out with a 5.0L V8.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    Yeah you are correct but that doesn't mean their isn't a market for hybrid 3.5 IS350's as it would instantly got the being 2nd best to king of the ELLPS segment without it being considered a Factory Tuner Sedan ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    My post oviously got taken dowm. Well I will only say this pal and that is I also really respect your opinin ;)

    Rocky
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Your post was waaay off-topic... as are many of these recent ones. ;)

    Let's get back on track, okay?
  • from_flfrom_fl Posts: 113
    I have owned several GM, Ford cars. All had major problem. I will not buy them again.
  • How do you know what the G8's interior feel's like, or if it's great at all?
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,664
    This is EXACTLY how to alienate customers just like FORD did with the 500. Most customers can't keep track of the numbers game and just peg to a familiar name.

    Good-bye Grand Prix. Slow sales for the G8 predicted. GTO gone. Just blend Pontiac and Buick and get it over with.

    Real good stuff. Marketing genius. G6 now G8...meaningless. GM will merge with Chrysler to keep this thing going. General Chrysler... must be Custer's last brother!

    Prices for this rear drive Grand Prix replacement should start just under $25,000 for a base V-6 model, about $27,000 for a bare-bones GT, and into the mid-$30,000 region for a loaded GT.

    Regards,
    OW
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    Dan,

    Because I have read many reviews on the Holden Commodore. ;)

    Rocky
  • andy82471andy82471 Posts: 120
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL :P . In your dreams Rocky. Pontiac is a damaged brand. Wagoner must be smoking something if he is dumb enough to compare Pontiac with BMW and Lexus.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    Well the G8, not only competes but does so with one of the best cars ever made when it comes to value. You get a 6-speed manual 56 more horses and if your riding in the back seat you don't have sit with your knees wrapped around your ears all for thousands less. :P The G8 interior rivals all in in the ELLPS segment but the G8 isn't just another Pontiac. It is a Holden, with a pontiac emblem. Obviously some research might help instead of making knee-jerk assumptions about products found under a brand that might not have a favorable recent past. ;)

    Rocky
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    I went for a test drive of the G8 so I could see how well the G8 stacks up against the competition. The test drive was a bomb as you might expect, none in stock.

    Pretty easy to look at specs on paper and say Pontiac will own the world. The problem with GM products is they all look great on paper until you own and drive them.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,664
    Absolute truth. I owned 2 and they fall apart quick. Perhaps that is why GTO and GP will be no more. Kind of tells me Pontiac will meet Olds fate shortly.

    Just put all G cars under Buick and get it over with.

    Regards,
    OW

    P.S. For the sake of the G8, we should hold off comment until actual experiences are known but I would NOT be too optimistic.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    I agree but let's look at this.

    1. Well the G8, not only competes but does so with one of the best cars ever made when it comes to value.

    Is this a fact or an opinion?

    2. You get a 6-speed manual 56 more horses and if your riding in the back seat you don't have sit with your knees wrapped around your ears all for thousands less. :P

    Meaning what?

    3. The G8 interior rivals all in in the ELLPS segment but the G8 isn't just another Pontiac.

    Fact or opinion? I guess that is like saying the 2010 M5 isn't just another BMW. :confuse
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Posts: 3,455
    Y'all just gotta appreciate ol' Rockylee's fervent belief that next year's (insert GM model here) will be the world beater that the current model was supposed to be. But isn't...

    Just needlin'ya a bit there Rock. You really should wait until the next great GM thing hits the streets before claiming a new world order, though...

    '13 Jaguar XF, possibly my favorite of all the cars I've owned. But, my '09 Jag XK was a beauty, as was my '05 Acura TL, '88 Acura Integra, '84 Mitsubishi Mirage Turbo & '78 VW Scirocco (my first!). And, of course, the '92 Nissan Sentra SE-R and '95 Saab 900s I bought for the ex... Ok, I like a lot of the cars in my life.

  • subearusubearu Posts: 3,613
    Shouldn't be any G8's in dealers until at least August according to several of the auto rags.

    Wonder when you could order one, sight unseen. There's always people out there that do so. I need to drive it before I buy it.

    -Brian
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    Oh well I'm not going to loose sleep over it. GM, has been #1 for what, 80 something years ? :P GM, will be #1 for the next 80 and if they aren't their will be hell to pay in Congress, and congress knows this already thus is why you will see change as bills are already being drawn up to level the playing field a bit ;)

    Rocky
  • motownusamotownusa Posts: 836
    There is no law that states that GM is entitled to stay No.1. Being No.1 has to be earned through selling cars that people want to buy. Toyota will easily surpass GM this year or early next year unless GM does buy Chrysler (doubt that will happen). Some of your posts are devoid from reality.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,664
    I agree with you fervently regarding GM's dethroning. No. 1? In fact, the evidence shows quite the contrary in terms of market share erosion.

    Does anyone really see this bleeding stopping anytime soon? Is there any real changes that will turn around the slide?

    I know the true answers but what do I really know? Just one thing...the trucks are OK and the C6 is great but the rest I would leave for distance shores. Too many great choices for it to end well for this once great but arrogant company.

    The definition of insanity is expecting change without change.

    Regards,
    OW
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Posts: 3,455
    "...see change as bills are already being drawn up to level the playing field a bit"

    Bills are being drafted to outlaw the UAW??? That will certainly help level the playing field... :blush:

    I appreciate your allegiances to GM, but I really think that the fault lies within GM, not the stars... For YEARS AND YEARS they kept building the same terrible cars. Instead of improving interiors, upgrading engines, better build quality, etc. they just kept putting lipstick on J-car and X-car pigs. Sure, a core group of loyals kept buying the same ol' same ol'. But were they attracting new blood? The shrinking market share Magic 8 ball says, "No."

    Personally, the arrogance of GM ticked me off to no end. Did they have some of the best engineering and design talent in the world? Yes. But I guess the Accountants union was stronger. They just kept building the same terrible cars year after year...

    But, on paper, the future's looking a bit brighter. Mostly from what I've seen of the '08 CTS. Let's hope that history doesn't continue to repeat itself...

    '13 Jaguar XF, possibly my favorite of all the cars I've owned. But, my '09 Jag XK was a beauty, as was my '05 Acura TL, '88 Acura Integra, '84 Mitsubishi Mirage Turbo & '78 VW Scirocco (my first!). And, of course, the '92 Nissan Sentra SE-R and '95 Saab 900s I bought for the ex... Ok, I like a lot of the cars in my life.

  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    Bills are being drafted to outlaw the UAW?? That will certainly help level the playing field...

    laurasdada, The UAW aren't totally to blame. They do blame themselves for allowing idiot beancounter CEO's like Roger Smith, to let the curve go across the plate while GM, was caught looking. The UAW, promised recently they will play a bigger role on product launches and said they will play a role in signing off on it so bad cars do not make it to market causing a loss in jobs.

    Rick Wagoner, is not the same old traditional CEO we've seen at GM. He knows GM, has the capability to build world class cars like the G8, and 08' CTS. The problem is their is a very unlevel playing field that needs some correction. Yes healthcare, is a major issue nowdays and yes GM, signed the UAW contracts to insure employees of GM get first class healthcare. The difference is GM, is 60-70 years older than Toyota, thus has a large retiree number it has to pay for. These obligations cost billions and instead of knocking GM, for paying these bills we should be proud of them as these folks will not be living off of your nickel when they are old like so many other americans. So I'd rather look at ways to cut healthcare costs in this country instead of griping about it. Toyota, in 15-20 years will face similar problems as more and more employees are elgible for retirement. I think a national healthcare plan is the only solution to get a grip on sky rocketing healthcare costs and fix a broken out of control system.

    The other major issue as has been discussed is unfair trade policy's. Whether your a democrat, republican, independant, most reasonable folks recognize we have a MAJOR trade defecit problem that keeps growing each year. Foreign governments want to dump freely on our market their exports but put up barriers on our exports. China, for example won't let you sell automobiles their without a huge tariff thus company's like GM, have to build their products in China, instead of the ability to export U.S. built automobiles. As rep. Duncan Hunter (R) California
    said U.S. manufactors are at a 74% disadvantage before anything is built. This is not fair IMHO.

    The final major obstacle for domestic manufactors is currency manipulation. The Japanese yen is artficially manipulated by 38%. The Chinese Yaun is 40%. What this means is if Toyota builds a car in Japan, and GM, builds a car in america and all costs being equal their is anywhere between a $2,000 profit advantage on cars selling in teens. approx $3-6K profit advantage $20-35K range. A $12-13K profit advantage on luxury brands $60-70K. We are talking about billions in profits because the yen is artificially manipulated and the Japaense, as recent as last week said they thought the yen was valued to high and wanted to decrease it's value even more. Toyota, still imports 50% of their vehicles. ;)

    These are the REAL ISSUES that are affecting corporations like GM. Sure GM, can't fix it's past but that doesn't mean its future should be punished because of some bad management of the past. Rick Wagoner, is a good guy and has his heart in the right place. I think we should give him a level playing field to compete on and if GM, still fails they have no one else to blame but themselves. I however am very confident this new GM, will not make the mistakes of it's past and plenty of great cars like the G8 and 08' CTS will be launched over the next couple of years. Some of which we've already have spy photo's of and some we've already seen at auto shows like the 09' Camaro, Enclave, Corvette SS, Chevy Impala, Buick Velite, etc, etc, and the 2008 Pontiac G8's Zeta Architecture is the spring board for many new exciting RWD automobiles.

    I just hope more american's will be willing to forgive GM's past and give GM, another try in the future. The 2008' Pontiac G8' is an exciting car for those optomistic about GM's return to greatness to take for a test drive. I grew up in a UAW-GM, family and even I and my family now can say that GM, has finally brought automobiles to the market they are proud to build and can be confident on reccommending one to family and friends. Trust me this was a concern in the past. ;)

    Just my $0.02 laurasdada, it's nice to talk to ya and hopefully we can have more nice discussions like this one in the future.

    Now back to the G8 vs IS350 & BMW 3 series ;)

    Rocky
  • brightness04brightness04 Posts: 3,151
    UAW having a say on what model gets built? Are we seriously to believe that they will exercise that right in the interest of building better cars or preserving obsolete job positions? The record of UAW influence in starving Canadian plants that have the best quality records do not speak well for discretion.

    Not sure how nationalizing healthcare can reduce healthcare cost, without essentially letting the sick to die without adquate care. Nationalizing healthcare is not going to suddenly produce a couple million slave healthcare workers that can render service for next to nothing. If the pay is not there, people simply do not enter the healthcare field; if the large number immigrant nurses and doctors and nursing and medical students are banned as a consequence of the nationalization, the supply of heathcare providers will be even more limited. The problem with high healthcare cost is two fold: not enough people are willing to do it, and too much subsidized money chasing what few providers are out there. The manufacturers should never have joined the ranks of subsizers for healthcare. Workers should take care of their own healthcare needs, and as a consequence will use healthcare much more judiciously. Yes, some may argue that other countries have nationl healthcare . . . wonder why almost all the leaders of other countries, when they get really sick, they seek treatment in the US? When the citizenry are wards of the state, they are serfs of the state, as is the case of many countries; only the elite in those countries can hop on a plane and get treatment in the US. Not sure why we want to make this country just like that. BTW, it's not because American doctors are naturally smarter; the most talented doctors all over the world tend to immigrate to the US!

    The bit about China slapping huge import tarrif on cars is simply untrue, at least since 2005, when it joined WTO. For what it's worth, GM was lobbying to keep the old tarrifs in place so its factories there could have an advantage.

    Currency manipulation is another fig leaf. If Yen and Yuan were not pegged to a range vis. Dollar, those currencies would go to near-zero simply because their population have little faith in their own currency. Would you keep your life savings in a fiat currency printed by a non-transparent government? So does that mean democratic nations have a natural disadvantage in trade? Not at all. Think about it, making cars is a tremendously polluting process. Our system of relatively non-interventionist government is what keeps the faith of the world capital market in the US; that's what enables us to enjoy some cars without having to deal with the pollution of carmaking.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,664
    Here's the deal from the consumers vantage point. I would only buy American cars because I believe what you believe. Honestly. But junk is junk and after many experiences with quality issues in my small world with th U.S. brands, I am sick and tired of waiting.

    Put another way, if I got into a Cadillac CTS, and felt what I felt in December '06, I would have purchased the CTS.

    To me, there is no product the U.S. offers that is even close what you can get from Japan, Europe and Korea. Wait until China gets going!

    It's going to be a very bumpy ride for GM. The company could have been in WAY better shape if it opened it's eys long ago in the 80's when Japan began to offer top quality.

    You know the rest 'cause it's history.

    I still have a real bad tast in my mouth.

    Again, take the CTS. Looks bad to me. I can sketch a car on paper that looks much better.

    Bottom line. If the 3 or even the G had a GM badge, the competition would be designing to beat the combination.

    Regards,
    OW
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    As you all know, these conversations are going on in many places over in Auto News. There has been little comparison of the subject vehicles here so far. If we want to compare them, let's get to it, okay? Otherwise, there's not much point in continuing here.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    brightness, I'll reply to your post in the Big 3 and domestic issues forum. ;) Same for you OW ;)

    Rocky
  • fenwahfenwah Posts: 58
    Actually the G8 that you saw with the nice leather interior dash, big wheels, etc., will never make it into production. The production model will be a scaled back version. I'm a bit nervous of what they will do the G8. After seeing the G8 interior at the autoshows, I have a feeling that we will all be disappointed with what the production version will look like.
  • fenwahfenwah Posts: 58
    My tax dollars had better not be spent bailing out GM. If anything, make those union boys work instead of playing cards. Reduce those union boys salaries as they are ridiciously high...big deal...they put a part on a car over and over. Reduce retirement and health benefits to the union boys. GM needs to get their head out of their *** if they ever want to compete with real automakers.

    And this is coming from someone who hopes the G8 is the real deal. Too bad we had to rebadge an Aussie car to do it. But the engineers in the U.S. can't develop a decent car...then so be it.

    I do believe the 08 CTS will be a huge winner though.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    Actually the G8 that you saw with the nice leather interior dash, big wheels, etc., will never make it into production. The production model will be a scaled back version.

    What ? The interior is a left-side drive Holden Commodore. Sure the color of leather which was ugly anyways in yellow and 20 inch tires won't make it into production yet but the HSV/GXP version will have 20's. Scaled back I think not !!!! Where are you getting your head filled with this hyperbole at ?

    I'm a bit nervous of what they will do the G8. After seeing the G8 interior at the autoshows, I have a feeling that we will all be disappointed with what the production version will look like.

    Again who is telling you this hyperbole. Got a link of proof ? Sure the interior color won't make it or the 20's but everything else is Holden Commodore production ready. :confuse:

    Go check out the Holden Commodores on YouTube and Holden.com and their you will see a Holden interior which like the GTO's will be the same, only left-hand side for U.S. market

    WOW....... :confuse:

    Rocky
  • subearusubearu Posts: 3,613
    Autoblog has a review of the Commodore that tries to relate it to the North American market. Fresh pics of the interior and exterior of the version that is headed here.

    Really, the show car had 19" wheels and some skirting and whatnot. That won't make production, maybe on GXP version. Otherwise, as Rocky said, the G8 we've seen at the shows and on the web should be quite similar.

    -Brian
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    Your answer will be posted in the forum "possible salvation for domestic automakers" in automotive news and views as this isn't the place to have this go further off-topic. ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    Yep !!!! ;)

    Rocky
  • subearusubearu Posts: 3,613
    Now, if we could only get some concrete info on pricing and options. :shades:

    -Brian
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    I agree Brian. Expect the G8 to start out at around $26-27K for the 3.6 261 hp base V8. The G8 GT V8 will top out at around $33K with a GTP hitting about $36K with a 400-425 hp 6.2 V8. The limited HSV/GTX version probably will hit $40K or so for a 7.0 LS-7 V8 with 502 hp or more. It will not debut before MY 2009' according to the sources I've read. ;)

    Rocky
  • holdenguyholdenguy Posts: 145
    Here you go Rocky,
    BMW 550i vs VE Calais V8 vs Benz E500 comparison.
    Lot of reading but very well written article.

    http://editorial.carsales.com.au/car-review/2358840.aspx
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    Yep, it was a very good read. I myself would probaably take the Mercedes, of the three.

    Rocky
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