Most of the time, no. But here in upstate NY, the winter roads are often nasty in the winter. During that time, AWD is a real benefit. We wouldn't have looked at the RDV at all if it didn't have AWD. Flame shields on: Without AWD, the RDV is just a comfortable minivan with an SUV-inspired body.
Let's do some interesting minivan vs. RDV comparisons:
RDV w/AWD and seats for 7: MSRP $32,182 Pontiac Montana w/AWD and seats for 7: MSRP $30,860
A stowable 3rd seat is a $235 option.
The Montana and the RDV are built on pretty much the same platform, so these are very comparable vehicles, mechanically (I've driven both). True, the Montana doesn't have leather seats and some other gadgets, and is less sedan-like in its ride. But it is hardly stripped down. And because it's built on an extended platform, it has much more storage space behind the 3rd row than the RDV. From a utilitarian standpoint, it's a better deal. Seems like the RDV commands a premium for style and comfort in spite of less utility.
Don't get me wrong- I appreciate that style and comfort have value. Emotionally, I'm drawn to the RDV. But I question if the RDV's style and comfort is worth more than the extra utility of the Montana + $1000?
Someone talk me into this deal...
As I said, we really want AWD. But let's look at the FWD equation just for kicks. A quick comparison at the lower end: A 7-seat Chevy Venture minivan ("Value" trim) can be had for as little as $22,035 MSRP, vs. $27,584 MSRP for a FWD RDV w/3rd row. Admittedly, the Chevy is a little feature-poor, but enough to justify a $5,500 difference? There are plenty of minivan options between these price points that offer more features than the "value Venture".
Perhaps the price structure of the 3rd seat on the RDV is intended to keep Buick from luring minivan shoppers away from Pontiac and Chevy? It's a way of steering the comparison to 3rd-seat-equipped SUVs?
Not to steer you off of RDV, but you might want to look at a Suzuki XL-7. We're about to make an offer on an RDV -- chose it over the XL-7 because we're getting older and ready for a touch of luxury.
No doubt the Montana is a better value, but I guess you give up a little bit of luxury for it.
Living in Canada I understand the winter driving issues. That said, I would get a 2WD as 99% of my driving is simply on paved roads (with or with out snow). One plus is that 2WD models in Canada come standard with traction control.
I think all of us here agree completely with you, adanbar, on your summary of the RDV. Most of us chose the RDV because we wanted MOST of the room of a minivan, but also wanted a luxury car ride and feel. No minivan is going to give you this...but perhaps your not in the RDV's demographic after all.
If you are really price/features conscious, then a minivan is probably a better choice for you. With the RDV, you pay for a smooth, quiet ride, and luxury car touches. If you drive the FWD RDV back-to-back with the Venture, you will see where your money went...much more insulation, stiffer body structure, aluminum suspension, and higher grade materials. A comparably equipped Venture is also only about $3000 cheaper than the RDV, which makes the RDV a great value in the FWD market too! In fact, drive a FWD RDV back-to-back with the "best minivan" and you'll see that even the vaunted Honda Odyssey doesn't hold a candle to the RDV in Noise/Vibration/Harshness or features.
I think that you will be hard pressed to find an AWD SUV with 3 rows of seating from any manufacturer for much less than $30,000. The only vehicles that come to mind are the Explorer/Mountaineer, Durango, MDX, ML320, Discovery, Montero, Tahoe, Expedition, and Rendezvous. All of these vehicles, when equipped with AWD and 3rd row seat, are at least as expensive as the RDV! The XL-7 might be an economical way for you to go...it's a nice truck. However, it is much smaller than the above mentioned vehicles and is not AWD, only 4X4.
If you are considering minivans, it sounds like that may be the way for you to go. I would check out the soon to be released 2002 Mazda MPV. It is the most car-like of the bunch and should offer a 3.0L engine and traction control for 2002.
Just purchased RDV CXL on 11/16. After only 190 miles (11/20) the engine had a major problem,ie: it quit. As we were on the road it is at an out of town dealer. Early diagnosis is a broken rod or valve. Question for all of you: have you ever heard of this before? My dealer has been great and will allow me to walk away from the deal or get me a new vehicle. I like the RDV quite a bit. I have driven the MDX, Lexus, Envoy,Mercedes, Hyundai, and think the RDV is all around the best choice & value. I do think the RDV is under powered & don't care for some of the styling. The interior may not be built with the attn. to detail as some of the others but the features (hud,backup sensor, tremendous storage) make it very attractive. The ride is much quieter and smoother than the others as well. Any thoughts? Since I have the ability to walk away I want to make sure that this engine problem is not a design flaw if I order another vehicle.
The night before last, while we were 150 miles away from home at the inlaws, a strong windstorm came up. It uprooted their doghouse, hurled it across the yard, and threw it through the RDV's windshield. It took out a headlight, damaged the bumper, and gouged the hood also. I couldn't drive it home and had to leave it behind Sunday to come home for work on Monday. So now it's in the hands of people I've never even met! The insurance company is looking into replacing the windshield up there, then bringing it back to my local dealership for the rest of the work. I know some of you guys have repaired your windshield; has anyone replaced one yet? I'm hoping they don't run into availability problems with it being a new vehicle and all. Maybe it uses the same windshield as some of the GM minivans. All this talk about difficulty matching paint has me concerned as well, especially since both the upper and lower will need some new paint.
I am so sorry to hear of your misfortune...I've heard of a person being in the doghouse, but not a car!
The paint code situation has been resolved, so you don't need to worry about that. I'll bet the windshield is the same as the Aztek, if not the minivans too.
Purchased a CX AWD and totally happy after the initial 2 weeks. My problem with the option packages was not the third seat thing. It was the fact that I could not get a towing package unless I moved up to the CXL. Wanted the AWD but not the leather seats. Bummed not having the factory towing package, will have to make due with aftermarket add-ons.
Hi, I am really close to buying a CXL with 1SD package. I guess I wanted the 3rd row seats but did not think the HUD display is worth $800. I have been reading most of the posts and am really glad that most people have been really nice in writing abt their experiences. Other than the side-view mirrors and the clock I did not come across any other issues that seemed to be fairly widespread. Is there anything I ought to check at the time of purchase? Are there any other major flaws that are known? I guess my apprehensions arise from the fact that this is a new model from a company that hasn't exactly had a great reputation for quality consciousness (at least in the last 10 years as compared to Japanese cars) Thanks in advance. nes
Well we have twins on the way and were all set on a Honda Odyssey until I saw the Buick. I'm not a big minivan fan, but my wife is going to be the primary driver. What do you guys think?
Dindak - Havn't checked the figures, but I don't know about your space comment. About which size version minivan are you talking? If we're talking standard minivan (e.g. Caravan) then I'd think they're about the same. If we're talking extended minivan (e.g. Grand Caravan), then the Rendezvous would be smaller.
You say, "Buick hasn't exactly had a great reputation for quality consciousness...in the last 10 years as compared to Japanese cars."
Could you please cite your refernces for that comment?
According to 2001 JD Power surveys rating customer satisfaction, initial quality, and long-term durability, Buick performs very well compared to both import and domestic competitors. In fact for the last several years, Buick has scored as well as or higher than Toyota, Honda, Subaru, Nissan, BMW, and Mercedes, to name a few.
Don't get me wrong, I understand your concern. There is a myth that American cars are not as good as Japanese cars, and this myth is perpetuated by the automotive press, and town hall particpants here at Edmunds.com. In my history of car ownership, I have not found American cars to be significantly different in quality from their import counterparts, and I certainly have a high opinion of Buick!
I did not mean to very specific abt Buick quality but GM as a whole. These are mainly my observations and I guess the media as well as used car prices on kbb and edmunds haven't exactly made me change those observations as much as I wanted to. I had an old American Chevy that had absolutely no problems engine wise way into 160 K miles. Ever since then whenever I am in the car market I have been appalled by a serious lack of quality consciousness (in terms of components and grade of plastic used) in 'some' american cars forcing me to buy a Japanese make.
I must admit here that I have always been impressed by buicks. I test drove a Le Sabre and infact rented it out and drove it cross country with absolutely no problems. But I can't say the same abt any Chevy's (Impala, Malibu). Though I have currently rented a Trailblazer and have been really impressed by it.
Now back to my initial question abt some of the problems in the rendezvous. I noticed that most of the side mirror issues were in the initial posts and haven't been seing a lot of that
in the recent messages. Is there anything that I outght to specifically check on this vehicle before driving it out from the dealer.
I noticed in the NHTSA website that there was something abt a leak in the passenger's side
I was wondering if anyone knows where I can find the canadian numbers on the RDV for invoice and tmv. we didn't expect to be looking at the RDV but seriously considering purchasing shortly.
Thanks for the clarification. Funny, I checked out another board here and folks (myself included) agree that the Japanese build higher quality subcompacts than the Big 3.
In my 15 years of car ownership, I've only owned 2 American cars. A very used 1991 Crown Vic Police car that I bought from the CHP and a very used 1989 Ford Escort that I inherited from my grandmother. And except for a brief fling with an Alfa Romeo, all of my remaining cars have been Japanese. I think this is one of the reasons why I am such a strong supporter of the RDV. Because I am truly impressed that Buick hit the nail on the head and beat the imports at their own game!
I admit that when I am ready to replace my 1993 Accord EX, I will definitely shop the imports. I don't think the Big 3 make a sedan as "nice" as the Japanese or European manufacturers. Just my opinion...the imports still inject a certain "Je ne sais quois" that America hasn't quite gotten yet. It's not quality, reliability, or anything like that...just a feeling of unity of design that I like.
As to the Rendezvous, I really wanted to like the ML320 and MDX more than the Buick, especially considering their elevated price tags! After finally sitting in and driving the RDV last summer, I was smitten. The RDV is a vehicle that has quality, style, great ergonomics, and is really nice to be in and drive! It makes no apologies to imports that cost $10,000 more.
Problems? I wasn't aware of the leaking H pillar and I don't remember anyone mentioning it here. Even here in Seattle, I have yet to experience this phenominon.
The reverse-tilt mirror still doesn't always remember it's original setting on my RDV, so I turned that feature off. The side mirrors are so big that it doesn't really make a difference anyway.
The clock on the in-dash CD players seem to universally (based on painstaking scientific research) lose about one minute per week.
I'm going along with a few other posters here and making a mental note of these quibbles. When I next take the RDV in for scheduled service, I'll mention them to the service manager.
I think the RDV has had an impressive introduction and has demonstrated exceptional initial quality...especially compared to some of it's vaunted competitors (ML320, MDX, RX300, Mountaineer, etc.).
After five months and 5500 miles, I still like to sneak into the garage, climb into the drivers seat, drop Sibelius Sym #5 into the CD player, and just relax and enjoy the atmosphere. My only regret is that I only got 6.5% financing!
We have a CXL with every option but the CD changer and are very impressed with the ride, performance, and quality. I also drive an 00 Ranger 4X4 4 dr Supercab - 20,600 miles and has never been back to the dealer for anything. It replaced a 95 F150 Supercab 4X4 I drove for 94,000 miles and never made a trip back to the dealer (did replace universals and brakes at about 77,000 miles). My spouse's 91 Toyota Cressida (which listed for $27,700 new) had a bad CD player off the show room floor, had to have the driver leather seat replaced because it was "flaking" away, had a speed sensor replace at 2,600 miles, alternator at 36,090 (out of warranty), and has had two exhaust system replaced, one set of brakes, and one set of brakes with rotors (now at 113,000 miles). Our actual experience favors Big 3 products. My spouse makes regular trips to the VA Hospital in Saginaw, MI (nothing serious) and the winter trips can be challenging from our home in Manistee, about 160 miles each way. Two trips have been made in the Buick, with some serious winds and driving rain - no problems or leaks. We have only had the Rendezvous since 10/22 and have experienced none of the problems noted in the post here. I'd say look it over good for cosmetic problems (dents, scratches, etc.), give it a good test drive, and judge the quality for yourself.
I have had my cx/lux pkg, leather, 3rd row seat/tow package for 3 weeks. I live in Houston, so saw no need for AWD, but wanted tow package for the engine protection in the heat. Was going to get CXL for the leather, but then found I could get in CX. Of course, one dealer assured me that was impossible, so it paid to shop around!Found exactly what I wanted on the internet, and made an easy transaction for invoice/ o% financing. I recommend Julie at HUB Buick. Traded in a '96 Grand Caravan. I have 3 boys- ages 12-14-17. They were ready to disown me if I bought another van(which I was ready to do).I refused to buy a Suburban (popular down here in Houston), and the 3rd seat in Tahoes and Explorers was uncomfortable, thus I looked at the RDV. Seems to fit the bill. I thought we's miss the extra room in back, but after driving 500+ mjles over Thanksgiving- the boys had no complaints about "3 in the middle".That second seat is very roomy. Plenty of luggage space in back. The turning radius is awesome. About my only complaint is that the A/C vents leak like crazy, as if there are no seals around them. Today's cold front had me wishing the heater didn't take quite so long to warm up. Otherwise, I like it!
the reviews seem good, any suggestions on what a good price would be for this particular one, heres the sticker, STANDARD VEHICLE PRICE Options Installed by Manufacturer $27,552.00
NY/MA/ME/VT ULTRA LOW EMISSIONS NO CHARGE
CXL VERSATILITY PACKAGE (SD) $4,030.00
CXL ORNAMENTATION
6-WAY POWER DRIVER/PASS SEATS
THIRD ROW SEATS W/STORAGE SYS
DUAL ELECTRIC CONTROL HVAC
W/ODOR AND POLLEN FILTER
LIGHT SENSITIVE ISRV MIRRORS
OVERHEAD CONSOLE
LEATHER SEATING SURFACES
W/FOOTREST
THEFT DETERRENT SYSTEM
REAR PARKING AID
ONSTAR ACCOMODATION
UNIVERSAL GARAGE DOOR OPENER
DRIVER INFO CENTER CLUSTER
REAR SEAT AUDIO CONTROLS
AM/FM STEREO W/CASSETTE & CD
W/EQLZR & 8 PREMIUM SPEAKERS
LUGGAGE RACK
SUNROOF - ELECTRIC SLIDING $695.00
TRAILER TOWING PACKAGE $325.00
DARK BRONZEMIST METALLIC LOWER NO CHARGE
ACCENT COLOR
TOTAL OPTIONS $5,050.00
TOTAL VEHICLE & OPTIONS $32,602.00 DESTINATION CHARGE $600.00
Brian and jwsmith Thanks a lot. Unfortunately dealers in Portland OR do not seem to have too many CXL's with the 1SD package on it especially in Pewter with Gray(I always thought that was the most common option- most of their cars here have the oak int.). They only seem to have the 1SE so I'll have to wait till they do a locate.
Have you checked outside of Portland? My dealer in Auburn, WA has about a dozen on the lot, mostly CXL's by my casual observation. You might also consider a factory order. The typical wait time for those of us that ordered our RDV's was about 5 to 6 weeks. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
heatonsmill - Based on owners comments (check out the RDV ownwers forum), you should be able to buy a RDV at or near the invoice price. According to Edmunds.com, the invoice price for your RDV is $29,878.
BTW, I recommend that you splurge the extra $400 for the heated and memory seat options. They are definitely worth it!
Nothing personal here, I agree that there is nothing special about the Accord or Camry. I am merely stating my own opinion that I would rather drive a 2001 VW Passat than a 2001 Impala, or a 2001 Camry over a 2001 Stratus, for example.
In this $20,000 to $25,000 class, I simply prefer the look and feel of the imports over the current breed of American sedans.
I did talk to the Auburn dealer. His best price was invoice plus $500. The hilarity of the situation was that the Portland dealer did a locate and apparently found a vehicle from Auburn ( same VIN no.) and he quoted me $300 less than the Auburn dealer for a car that was parked in the Auburn dealer's lot. I also noticed that the VIN no. was a good 11,000 earlier to the the ones made in October, so it probably has been lying arnd in his lot for a while.
Apparently the invoice price includes an advertising fee and its 1% for most Portland dealers whereas it is 2% in Auburn so the dealer here in Hillsboro OR, told me that he'll try and locate a similar vehicle in OR.
Could never justify paying $600 more for nothing other than lining the dealer's pockets.
Nescovin - Found what we wanted by using GMBUYPOWER inventory search. It searches by zip codes. By putting my local zip in, we got dealers within 60 - 70 miles of our home town, but not what we were looking for. Grabbed a phone book and got some other city zip codes to use in the search, Midland (120 miles away - where we bought), Grand Rapids (110 miles away), Saginaw (160 miles - but go there often). We found it gives a good view of what is available in a wide ranging area. We have the popular pewter w/gray also. Fedlawman - agree with your sedan assessment. We were looking Passat, Subaru VDC, and Lexus 300 to replace the Toyota when smitten by the Rendexvous (and the wife was pretty emphatic about not buying a "SUV," and wanting a sedan). If we had bought a sedan - it almost surely would have been a foreign nameplate. Good luck in finding what you want at a price you are willing to pay!
I agree, the Passat is probably one of the nicest cars on the road, but it ain't cheap or particularly reliable. That said, it would probably be my second choice after the Maxima. I currently drive an Intrigue which is probably the best GM mid-size sedan but GM has killed it after this year so I can't get another in a few years.
You're right about the Intrigue. A very good domestic sedan that compares well with the imports.
I like the looks and dynamics of the Passat a lot too, especially that two-tone tan leather interior...looks and feels like an Audi inside (they are close cousins, after all). You're right about reliability though. VW has come a long way but I still fear their QC.
BTW, I checked out a 2002 Camry SE yesterday. Can you say gorgeous? The interior was also very Audi-esque, only bigger. It had a big, fat three spoke steering wheel but slightly awkward looking dashboard layout. Oh yeah, it had VSC, perforated leather seats, moonroof, heated seats, and side curtain airbags, and stickered for $30,000. Will anyone pay $30,000 for a Camry? If it had 240 hp and cost $27,000, it would be killer!
There are so many great, middle priced sedans on the market right now, I would be hard pressed to pick THE ONE for me. Maxima/Altima, Camry/ES300, BMW 3 series, Mercedes C class, WRX, A4...I like them all, but each has it's strengths and weaknesses.
Oh, I can't decide. I'll just have to keep my '93 Accord until one whispers in my ear (in 2005, when I've finished paying for the RDV, of course!).
I have not driven an Odyssey, but I have a friend in LA who bought one. From her description, it is not overly roomy; it's about standard for a smaller minivan. What she likes is the automatic sliding doors, what she doesn't like is the poor gas mileage. She's only getting about 15 mpg in city driving. I'm starting to become convinced that minivans' reputation for more room and better gas mileage is unfounded (not counting the space in the extended minivans that is - they are indeed roomier). If your wife likes the handling of a minivan, she should be more than pleased with driving the RDV, since it is built on the GM minivan platform. And my personal opinion is, the RDV is much more stylish and comfortable than any minivan.
Just bought RDV CXL AWD Versatility/towing/6 CD/leather/memory pkg two days ago. Much nicer than I had imagined and very happy with the deal. Paid $150 under invoice, paid $500 down (no trade), got 0% APR and feel like I am sitting in the lap of luxury. Plus dealer extended warranty to 5-yr, 50,000 miles free of charge. FYI, we paid $2,400 less than Edmunds TMV is coming up on this vehicle AND carsdirect.com couldn't find one for anything less than MSRP.
Sedona Bronze looks like melted chocolate -- yummm.
I desperately wanted a Passat 4Motion (talk about fun to drive!), but VW says "no towing" with Passat, no good financing deals, short warranty, etc. Had '84 GTI once and loved it. There's something wonderful about the way they hold the road...
Went throught GMBuyPower and found local (Albany) dealer who said they had 87 RDV's -- saw at least 30 when we went to pick ours up! Tallman wanted an MDX, but I talked him into this (actually, the money talked louder than me) and we both LOVE LOVE LOVE it. If you're sitting on the fence, fall onto the RDV side before people catch on and you have to pay above sticker ($3000 over MSRP for MDX??? -- NO THANKS!).
Just wish we could figure out how to control the rear air flow. The massive owner's manual doesn't seem to cover this. ARE there any controls for this, anyone?
Thanks to TRON for the Hidden-Hitch hint. I went to their site, and found that they have the Class II hitch for the RDV, which is the same as for the Pontiac Aztec. Then I found that JC Whitney sells these hitches for $115. The trick with Whiney is that they do not list RDV yet, but do list the Aztec.
The question is has anyone installed a Hidden-Hitch on their RDV yet? Or on an Aztec?
Agree with all that RDV's are an extremely desirable option in the small SUV market. We love the options - especially dual radio controls, for our demanding teen, and third row seating to keep our three kids away from each other!I'm very hot on the OnStar and safety options. Our hesitation is mechanical problems noted here, and actual gas mileage. Could I get info. on what city/hwy mileage owners are getting? I test drove an RDV with 130 miles on it that was getting 10.3 mpg - was that just initial? Dealer had no good explanation.
Our mileage seems to be averaging around 19 mpg (city/hwy driving) which seems to be in line with some of the posts I've read here. If one looks at the "instant mileage" on the DIC (Driver Information Center), the mileage can go from 7 mpg to 30 or more mpg depending on what the engine is doing. Overall "average readings" on the DIC, on the other hand, should be around 19 mpg.
In terms of mechanical defects, there really haven't been that many "serious" things reported. For our challenges so far, see my post over in "RDV - Problems/Solutions" posted today.
My wife, who drives the car 98% of the time, just loves it. And as you mentioned, having the separate headphone jacks and a 3rd seat are real pluses for the RDV. Hope this helps.
At 1650 miles (with an average speed of 49 MPH) our average MPG is 21.4 on CXL. About 80% has been highway driving, but in foul weather with a few hundred miles into very stiff head winds. Mechanical is great to date, no noted defects (and following the leads make it easy to check) yet. No regrets - we'd buy it again today after 40 days of ownership.
Thanks so much for the great information, john325 and jwsmith - it's very reassuring to have personal experiences and references! Called several dealerships today, and went to one; all are offering invoice or close. All said Buick has slowed down production, which has depleted their inventory, and few CXL's with sunroofs are available. The ones that are available have all been on lots since June; one that we were shown was actually in the service department for a broken electrical fuse, which the fleet dealer said was related to a design(flaw) taken from Aztek that shut down electrical flow when the car was not being driven, and then progressed to nuking itself.
Have any of you purchased a car with 6 months on a lot? Our other option is to order one. Also would appreciate input on the eye-cue and on-star systems; does anyone use on-star for phone services (recommend it?) Thanks so much - this has got to be the best edmunds owners site for suvs!!
My dealer found me a CXL with the 1SD package on it but when the car arrived he realized that it had 800 miles on it. He was very nice to me and offered me a loan car till he gets me a RDV. He found one with the 1SE package on it. Just wondering, from the folks who have this package on it, is the HUD, memory seats and heated seats really worth it. There was some discussion abt memory seats not working for their intended purpose, is that really true. Me and my wife would be the only drivers. Does it really help in alternating between the 2 of us if we have this option. How hard is it to program these seats.
With a about 4500 miles on my AWD RDV, I am getting around 20 mpg on a mix of city and highway driving. I got about 21.5 on my recent trip, which was 150 miles of mostly highway driving, but also included 1 hour of sitting in bumper to bumper holiday traffic jam. I was going to get a true reading on the way home, expecting at least 22-23 mpg, but alas, that doghouse through the windshield foiled my plans. There have been no mechanical problems, or problems of any sort more serious than a slightly slow radio clock. Compare the recall lists at NHTSA's website - RDV has a pretty tiny list of minor stuff, while the other new SUVs have longer lists with more serious issues. Beleive it or not, this is one well-built GM product.
Research this thread more thoroughly and you'll find that people with the HUD like it a lot. As far as memory seat problems go, I believe it was a mirror problem not a seat problem, for which there is a service bulletin already out. There was mention of a popping noise when the memory is activated, and Gamera does make this noise now and again. It's a single pop that comes through the speaker system when the "1" button is pushed. (My wife doesn't drive it enough to know whether it could come from the "2" button as well.) But the noise is very rare, not particularly loud, and doesn't seem to correlate with any with any particular condition.
cw: How did you pull off getting #1 seat assignment. I initially had the #1 key fob, but gave it to my wife - I settled for #2, she likes being #1. - Perhaps this is the making of another subgroup. So you're Oak, #1...
nexcovin/cw: I believe mfarmer2 (if that's the right name, relying on memory) mentioned she was having trouble, in addition to the popping sounds (which we've never experienced), with being able to have the memory seat position itself to the exit position when she got back in the car. I know my wife was having the same challenge, but it didn't seem too important to us. We're satisfied that the seat adjusts properly to the "driving position" for each of us when we unlock the car. Again, mfarmer2's additional challenenge concerned the "exit" memory position and the "driving" memory position. - Of course all this is relying on my memory... it's been a while.
Nescovin: This RDV is my second car with HUD. I wouldn't be without it! The heated seats work great. I tried them on a cool morning when I was going to the gym wearing shorts. If you have two people driving the vehicle, the memory seats (which also change your outside mirror positions and the radio buttons) are really worth having. - Mel
Right you are! There was the exit position issue as well. I tried this out with Gamera when Mary first brought it up and confirmed her description of it. For me I'm not so sure that it's a problem as it is a conflict between the owner's manual and how the car actually works. Kind of like the nonexistent tire pressure monitor. Remember, we're all driving first year models here. I don't think of it as a problem because I routinely hit the exit button whenever I get out of Gamera so the seat is already in the exit position when I get back in and then hit the coveted "1" button. "Breaker breaker Oak"1" here c'mon." However, when my wife's used the car and left it in the "2" position, I do believe that it goes to the exit position when I unlock it with the "1" keyfob. You, Mary and others might want to try checking that one out.
CWJ
P.S. - I got the "1" keyfob by virtue of Gamera being "officially" my new car. I pointed out to my wife that her last two cars were new, while my last two cars were used, and that I deserved a new vehicle. She then pointed out that those last two "used" cars had been a Mazda Miata and Jaguar XJS respectively, while her "new" cars had been a Dodge and a Ford.
As I have said before in this forum, the HUD is well worth the price for safety issues especially driving at night on an unfamiliar road. I will always spend the money for safety especially an item such as the HUD. We have an AWD CXL and have averaged 20.9 MPG for the 11,600 miles I have driven my RDV. This is better then my old Mazda Navajo with a significantly better luxury package and ride. No problems with the seats, they work just fine. As a note, the view out the mirrors to the rear of the RDV is not very good, so the Sonic Back up assist system is also a nice item to have, although not as valuable as the HUD. Happy Trails in NOR CAL.
Ordered a black/grey CXL with all the trimmings & 7 seats. Thanks to everyone's comments here, it helped to make my decision. Came down to an MDX or RDV. Although I like the looks of the MDX better, the RDV seemed more practical and better value for the $ as well as having more bells and whistles (ergo, I am a man). Add to that the arrogance of Acura dealers, long wait times and list price at best; an RDV at a small premium to invoice seemed a better way to go. To all those who say foreigners build better cars, all I know is that I've had an Olds for the last 13 years and it has never left me stranded in all that time aside from a dead battery once, and no major repairs besides the normal wear and tear.
Comments
Most of the time, no. But here in upstate NY, the winter roads are often nasty in the winter. During that time, AWD is a real benefit. We wouldn't have looked at the RDV at all if it didn't have AWD. Flame shields on: Without AWD, the RDV is just a comfortable minivan with an SUV-inspired body.
Let's do some interesting minivan vs. RDV comparisons:
RDV w/AWD and seats for 7: MSRP $32,182
Pontiac Montana w/AWD and seats for 7: MSRP $30,860
A stowable 3rd seat is a $235 option.
The Montana and the RDV are built on pretty much the same platform, so these are very comparable vehicles, mechanically (I've driven both). True, the Montana doesn't have leather seats and some other gadgets, and is less sedan-like in its ride. But it is hardly stripped down. And because it's built on an extended platform, it has much more storage space behind the 3rd row than the RDV. From a utilitarian standpoint, it's a better deal. Seems like the RDV commands a premium for style and comfort in spite of less utility.
Don't get me wrong- I appreciate that style and comfort have value. Emotionally, I'm drawn to the RDV. But I question if the RDV's style and comfort is worth more than the extra utility of the Montana + $1000?
Someone talk me into this deal...
As I said, we really want AWD. But let's look at the FWD equation just for kicks. A quick comparison at the lower end: A 7-seat Chevy Venture minivan ("Value" trim) can be had for as little as $22,035 MSRP, vs. $27,584 MSRP for a FWD RDV w/3rd row. Admittedly, the Chevy is a little feature-poor, but enough to justify a $5,500 difference? There are plenty of minivan options between these price points that offer more features than the "value Venture".
Perhaps the price structure of the 3rd seat on the RDV is intended to keep Buick from luring minivan shoppers away from Pontiac and Chevy? It's a way of steering the comparison to 3rd-seat-equipped SUVs?
Living in Canada I understand the winter driving issues. That said, I would get a 2WD as 99% of my driving is simply on paved roads (with or with out snow). One plus is that 2WD models in Canada come standard with traction control.
If you are really price/features conscious, then a minivan is probably a better choice for you. With the RDV, you pay for a smooth, quiet ride, and luxury car touches. If you drive the FWD RDV back-to-back with the Venture, you will see where your money went...much more insulation, stiffer body structure, aluminum suspension, and higher grade materials. A comparably equipped Venture is also only about $3000 cheaper than the RDV, which makes the RDV a great value in the FWD market too! In fact, drive a FWD RDV back-to-back with the "best minivan" and you'll see that even the vaunted Honda Odyssey doesn't hold a candle to the RDV in Noise/Vibration/Harshness or features.
I think that you will be hard pressed to find an AWD SUV with 3 rows of seating from any manufacturer for much less than $30,000. The only vehicles that come to mind are the Explorer/Mountaineer, Durango, MDX, ML320, Discovery, Montero, Tahoe, Expedition, and Rendezvous. All of these vehicles, when equipped with AWD and 3rd row seat, are at least as expensive as the RDV! The XL-7 might be an economical way for you to go...it's a nice truck. However, it is much smaller than the above mentioned vehicles and is not AWD, only 4X4.
If you are considering minivans, it sounds like that may be the way for you to go. I would check out the soon to be released 2002 Mazda MPV. It is the most car-like of the bunch and should offer a 3.0L engine and traction control for 2002.
Just purchased RDV CXL on 11/16. After only 190 miles (11/20) the engine had a major problem,ie: it quit. As we were on the road it is at an out of town dealer. Early diagnosis is a broken rod or valve. Question for all of you: have you ever heard of this before? My dealer has been great and will allow me to walk away from the deal or get me a new vehicle. I like the RDV quite a bit. I have driven the MDX, Lexus, Envoy,Mercedes, Hyundai, and think the RDV is all around the best choice & value. I do think the RDV is under powered & don't care for some of the styling. The interior may not be built with the attn. to detail as some of the others but the features (hud,backup sensor, tremendous storage) make it very attractive. The ride is much quieter and smoother than the others as well. Any thoughts? Since I have the ability to walk away I want to make sure that this engine problem is not a design flaw if I order another vehicle.
Thanks
Actually, it's kind of a blessing...like getting hit by lightning. The odds of it ever happening to you again are astronomical!
The paint code situation has been resolved, so you don't need to worry about that. I'll bet the windshield is the same as the Aztek, if not the minivans too.
I'm sure your RDV will be as good as new soon.
Purchased a CX AWD and totally happy after the initial 2 weeks. My problem with the option packages was not the third seat thing. It was the fact that I could not get a towing package unless I moved up to the CXL. Wanted the AWD but not the leather seats. Bummed not having the factory towing package, will have to make due with aftermarket add-ons.
I am really close to buying a CXL with 1SD package. I guess I wanted the 3rd row seats but did not think the HUD display is worth $800. I have been reading most of the posts and am really glad that most people have been really nice in writing abt their experiences.
Other than the side-view mirrors and the clock I did not come across any other issues that seemed to be fairly widespread. Is there anything I ought to check at the time of purchase?
Are there any other major flaws that are known?
I guess my apprehensions arise from the fact that this is a new model from a company that hasn't exactly had a great reputation for quality consciousness (at least in the last 10 years as compared to Japanese cars)
Thanks in advance.
nes
CWJ
Could you please cite your refernces for that comment?
According to 2001 JD Power surveys rating customer satisfaction, initial quality, and long-term durability, Buick performs very well compared to both import and domestic competitors. In fact for the last several years, Buick has scored as well as or higher than Toyota, Honda, Subaru, Nissan, BMW, and Mercedes, to name a few.
Don't get me wrong, I understand your concern. There is a myth that American cars are not as good as Japanese cars, and this myth is perpetuated by the automotive press, and town hall particpants here at Edmunds.com. In my history of car ownership, I have not found American cars to be significantly different in quality from their import counterparts, and I certainly have a high opinion of Buick!
Quality wise, you can't get much better than Buick. Always rock solid and Rendezvous is no exception.
I did not mean to very specific abt Buick quality but GM as a whole. These are mainly my observations and I guess the media as well as used car prices on kbb and edmunds haven't exactly made me change those observations as much as I wanted to. I had an old American Chevy that had absolutely no problems engine wise way into 160 K miles. Ever since then whenever I am in the car market I have been appalled by a serious lack of quality consciousness (in terms of components and grade of plastic used) in 'some' american cars forcing me to buy a Japanese make.
I must admit here that I have always been impressed by buicks. I test drove a Le Sabre and infact rented it out and drove it cross country with absolutely no problems. But I can't say the same abt any Chevy's (Impala, Malibu). Though I have currently rented a Trailblazer and have been really impressed by it.
Now back to my initial question abt some of the problems in the rendezvous. I noticed that most of the side mirror issues were in the initial posts and haven't been seing a lot of that
in the recent messages. Is there anything that I outght to specifically check on this vehicle before driving it out from the dealer.
I noticed in the NHTSA website that there was something abt a leak in the passenger's side
http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/problems/tsb/central2.cfm
Has anybody here noticed any of that especially in the North-West rains.
I'd greatly appreciate any help in this regard.
I've decided on a CXL with a 1SD package.
Thanks
In my 15 years of car ownership, I've only owned 2 American cars. A very used 1991 Crown Vic Police car that I bought from the CHP and a very used 1989 Ford Escort that I inherited from my grandmother. And except for a brief fling with an Alfa Romeo, all of my remaining cars have been Japanese. I think this is one of the reasons why I am such a strong supporter of the RDV. Because I am truly impressed that Buick hit the nail on the head and beat the imports at their own game!
I admit that when I am ready to replace my 1993 Accord EX, I will definitely shop the imports. I don't think the Big 3 make a sedan as "nice" as the Japanese or European manufacturers. Just my opinion...the imports still inject a certain "Je ne sais quois" that America hasn't quite gotten yet. It's not quality, reliability, or anything like that...just a feeling of unity of design that I like.
As to the Rendezvous, I really wanted to like the ML320 and MDX more than the Buick, especially considering their elevated price tags! After finally sitting in and driving the RDV last summer, I was smitten. The RDV is a vehicle that has quality, style, great ergonomics, and is really nice to be in and drive! It makes no apologies to imports that cost $10,000 more.
Problems? I wasn't aware of the leaking H pillar and I don't remember anyone mentioning it here. Even here in Seattle, I have yet to experience this phenominon.
The reverse-tilt mirror still doesn't always remember it's original setting on my RDV, so I turned that feature off. The side mirrors are so big that it doesn't really make a difference anyway.
The clock on the in-dash CD players seem to universally (based on painstaking scientific research) lose about one minute per week.
I'm going along with a few other posters here and making a mental note of these quibbles. When I next take the RDV in for scheduled service, I'll mention them to the service manager.
I think the RDV has had an impressive introduction and has demonstrated exceptional initial quality...especially compared to some of it's vaunted competitors (ML320, MDX, RX300, Mountaineer, etc.).
After five months and 5500 miles, I still like to sneak into the garage, climb into the drivers seat, drop Sibelius Sym #5 into the CD player, and just relax and enjoy the atmosphere. My only regret is that I only got 6.5% financing!
Options Installed by Manufacturer
$27,552.00
NY/MA/ME/VT ULTRA LOW EMISSIONS
NO CHARGE
CXL VERSATILITY PACKAGE (SD)
$4,030.00
CXL ORNAMENTATION
6-WAY POWER DRIVER/PASS SEATS
THIRD ROW SEATS W/STORAGE SYS
DUAL ELECTRIC CONTROL HVAC
W/ODOR AND POLLEN FILTER
LIGHT SENSITIVE ISRV MIRRORS
OVERHEAD CONSOLE
LEATHER SEATING SURFACES
W/FOOTREST
THEFT DETERRENT SYSTEM
REAR PARKING AID
ONSTAR ACCOMODATION
UNIVERSAL GARAGE DOOR OPENER
DRIVER INFO CENTER CLUSTER
REAR SEAT AUDIO CONTROLS
AM/FM STEREO W/CASSETTE & CD
W/EQLZR & 8 PREMIUM SPEAKERS
LUGGAGE RACK
SUNROOF - ELECTRIC SLIDING
$695.00
TRAILER TOWING PACKAGE
$325.00
DARK BRONZEMIST METALLIC LOWER
NO CHARGE
ACCENT COLOR
TOTAL OPTIONS
$5,050.00
TOTAL VEHICLE & OPTIONS
$32,602.00
DESTINATION CHARGE
$600.00
___________
TOTAL VEHICLE PRICE* $33,202.00
Thanks a lot. Unfortunately dealers in Portland OR do not seem to have too many CXL's with the 1SD package on it especially in Pewter with Gray(I always thought that was the most common option- most of their cars here have the oak int.). They only seem to have the 1SE so I'll have to wait till they do a locate.
heatonsmill - Based on owners comments (check out the RDV ownwers forum), you should be able to buy a RDV at or near the invoice price. According to Edmunds.com, the invoice price for your RDV is $29,878.
BTW, I recommend that you splurge the extra $400 for the heated and memory seat options. They are definitely worth it!
fedlawman : Unless you are talking higher end import sedans I'm not sure I agree. Nothing special about a Accord or Camry IMO.
In this $20,000 to $25,000 class, I simply prefer the look and feel of the imports over the current breed of American sedans.
I did talk to the Auburn dealer. His best price was invoice plus $500. The hilarity of the situation was that the Portland dealer did a locate and apparently found a vehicle from Auburn ( same VIN no.) and he quoted me $300 less than the Auburn dealer for a car that was parked in the Auburn dealer's lot. I also noticed that the VIN no. was a good 11,000 earlier to the the ones made in October, so it probably has been lying arnd in his lot for a while.
Apparently the invoice price includes an advertising fee and its 1% for most Portland dealers whereas it is 2% in Auburn so the dealer here in Hillsboro OR, told me that he'll try and locate a similar vehicle in OR.
Could never justify paying $600 more for nothing other than lining the dealer's pockets.
Found what we wanted by using GMBUYPOWER inventory search. It searches by zip codes. By putting my local zip in, we got dealers within 60 - 70 miles of our home town, but not what we were looking for. Grabbed a phone book and got some other city zip codes to use in the search, Midland (120 miles away - where we bought), Grand Rapids (110 miles away), Saginaw (160 miles - but go there often). We found it gives a good view of what is available in a wide ranging area. We have the popular pewter w/gray also.
Fedlawman - agree with your sedan assessment. We were looking Passat, Subaru VDC, and Lexus 300 to replace the Toyota when smitten by the Rendexvous (and the wife was pretty emphatic about not buying a "SUV," and wanting a sedan). If we had bought a sedan - it almost surely would have been a foreign nameplate.
Good luck in finding what you want at a price you are willing to pay!
:-(
I like the looks and dynamics of the Passat a lot too, especially that two-tone tan leather interior...looks and feels like an Audi inside (they are close cousins, after all). You're right about reliability though. VW has come a long way but I still fear their QC.
BTW, I checked out a 2002 Camry SE yesterday. Can you say gorgeous? The interior was also very Audi-esque, only bigger. It had a big, fat three spoke steering wheel but slightly awkward looking dashboard layout. Oh yeah, it had VSC, perforated leather seats, moonroof, heated seats, and side curtain airbags, and stickered for $30,000. Will anyone pay $30,000 for a Camry? If it had 240 hp and cost $27,000, it would be killer!
There are so many great, middle priced sedans on the market right now, I would be hard pressed to pick THE ONE for me. Maxima/Altima, Camry/ES300, BMW 3 series, Mercedes C class, WRX, A4...I like them all, but each has it's strengths and weaknesses.
Oh, I can't decide. I'll just have to keep my '93 Accord until one whispers in my ear (in 2005, when I've finished paying for the RDV, of course!).
I have not driven an Odyssey, but I have a friend in LA who bought one. From her description, it is not overly roomy; it's about standard for a smaller minivan. What she likes is the automatic sliding doors, what she doesn't like is the poor gas mileage. She's only getting about 15 mpg in city driving. I'm starting to become convinced that minivans' reputation for more room and better gas mileage is unfounded (not counting the space in the extended minivans that is - they are indeed roomier). If your wife likes the handling of a minivan, she should be more than pleased with driving the RDV, since it is built on the GM minivan platform.
And my personal opinion is, the RDV is much more stylish and comfortable than any minivan.
Sedona Bronze looks like melted chocolate -- yummm.
I desperately wanted a Passat 4Motion (talk about fun to drive!), but VW says "no towing" with Passat, no good financing deals, short warranty, etc. Had '84 GTI once and loved it. There's something wonderful about the way they hold the road...
Went throught GMBuyPower and found local (Albany) dealer who said they had 87 RDV's -- saw at least 30 when we went to pick ours up! Tallman wanted an MDX, but I talked him into this (actually, the money talked louder than me) and we both LOVE LOVE LOVE it. If you're sitting on the fence, fall onto the RDV side before people catch on and you have to pay above sticker ($3000 over MSRP for MDX??? -- NO THANKS!).
Just wish we could figure out how to control the rear air flow. The massive owner's manual doesn't seem to cover this. ARE there any controls for this, anyone?
CWJ
P.S. I haven't yet encountered any controls for the rear air vents.
Back to RDV.
The question is has anyone installed a Hidden-Hitch on their RDV yet? Or on an Aztec?
In terms of mechanical defects, there really haven't been that many "serious" things reported. For our challenges so far, see my post over in "RDV - Problems/Solutions" posted today.
My wife, who drives the car 98% of the time, just loves it. And as you mentioned, having the separate headphone jacks and a 3rd seat are real pluses for the RDV. Hope this helps.
Called several dealerships today, and went to one; all are offering invoice or close. All said Buick has slowed down production, which has depleted their inventory, and few CXL's with sunroofs are available. The ones that are available have all been on lots since June; one that we were shown was actually in the service department for a broken electrical fuse, which the fleet dealer said was related to a design(flaw) taken from Aztek that shut down electrical flow when the car was not being driven, and then progressed to nuking itself.
Have any of you purchased a car with 6 months on a lot? Our other option is to order one. Also would appreciate input on the eye-cue and on-star systems; does anyone use on-star for phone services (recommend it?) Thanks so much - this has got to be the best edmunds owners site for suvs!!
About 80% has been highway driving, but in foul weather with a few hundred miles into very stiff head winds
Just wondering - don't the stiff tail winds cancel out the head winds?
tidester
Host
SUVs
Personally, in stiff tail winds, I just drive home backwards.
My dealer found me a CXL with the 1SD package on it but when the car arrived he realized that it had 800 miles on it. He was very nice to me and offered me a loan car till he gets me a RDV.
He found one with the 1SE package on it. Just wondering, from the folks who have this package on it, is the HUD, memory seats and heated seats really worth it. There was some discussion abt memory seats not working for their intended purpose, is that really true. Me and my wife would be the only drivers. Does it really help in alternating between the 2 of us if we have this option. How hard is it to program these seats.
Thanks,
There have been no mechanical problems, or problems of any sort more serious than a slightly slow radio clock. Compare the recall lists at NHTSA's website - RDV has a pretty tiny list of minor stuff, while the other new SUVs have longer lists with more serious issues. Beleive it or not, this is one well-built GM product.
Folks here that have the HUD love it, I don't have it so I can't comment.
nexcovin/cw: I believe mfarmer2 (if that's the right name, relying on memory) mentioned she was having trouble, in addition to the popping sounds (which we've never experienced), with being able to have the memory seat position itself to the exit position when she got back in the car. I know my wife was having the same challenge, but it didn't seem too important to us. We're satisfied that the seat adjusts properly to the "driving position" for each of us when we unlock the car. Again, mfarmer2's additional challenenge concerned the "exit" memory position and the "driving" memory position. - Of course all this is relying on my memory... it's been a while.
John B.
Go 9ers
CWJ
P.S. - I got the "1" keyfob by virtue of Gamera being "officially" my new car. I pointed out to my wife that her last two cars were new, while my last two cars were used, and that I deserved a new vehicle. She then pointed out that those last two "used" cars had been a Mazda Miata and Jaguar XJS respectively, while her "new" cars had been a Dodge and a Ford.
Happy Trails in NOR CAL.
Guess I have to change my handle now?!?