The editors' opinions are subjective, though. That was my whole point. And - one editor had a negative opinion, the 2nd opinion was far more positive.
Want to know what I think? Form your own opinion! At least reserve judgement until you've driven one. The review is what a single Edmunds editor thought about it, an opinion that contradicts the 2nd opinion at that.
Feel free to think for yourself. Disagree with car reviews, you have the right! It's your money. The only opinion that matters is YOURS.
From objective measures the new WRX simply clobbers the old one.
Larger gate is nice. Hatchback, not wagon, hence shortened catgo area, even after seats down. Of course no chance for a true wagon version, as they are already predicting only 20% hatchback in US. Godd job, Bob with getting all dimensions and comparisons. Will see it when it comes...
Thanks! Just what I've been looking for. Looks like the new Impreza 5 door may actually have more cargo volume than the last one. I just hope I can fit a 100+ Lbs., 27.5" Riesenschnauzer and a little extra cargo back there. If I can, I suspect an STI may be in my future. I think I'll be pretty happy with that!
So wider but not as long, something we all expected. I bet volume is about a draw, not bad for being on a shorter body. Space efficiency seems better.
Never mind that, though, this is very exciting news for the 2009 Forester. That will have a true wagon shape to the back and won't be shorter than the outgoing model, so I have high hopes for a rather huge cargo area, and great space efficiency.
Can't wait to see the Forester, this is such a great platform to build it on. :shades:
There is a posting on nabisco about FHI (Subaru's parent) being in the red now. Also supposedly, the new Impreza is selling well in Japan but disappointingly, has cannibalized the sales of the more profitable Legacy models, thus not enabling the revival of sluggish overall domestic sales.
Also, in the US, the non-WRX models (non-turbo models) are selling more, to a corresponding decline in the sales of the turbo-models, that have a HIGHER MARGIN , thus impacting overall profitability.
I've argued all along that the 2.5i Limited is the best value. In fact, I'll go ahead and say it..
I told you so.
I have no idea what your winky icon is for.
Doesn't surprise me to see the Impreza eat up some Legacy sales, either, as the Legacy is now several years old and the new Impreza is so upscale, so cost-added, feature-rich, plus now with VDC (!), that the upscale Legacy will suffer.
The winky icon was for the fact that in case of the 07, there were significant differences between the Turbo and the non-Turbo from an equipment perspective and YET, the Turbo had higher margins.
When it comes to the 08, that margin will widen even further, since the Turbo and the non-Turbo will have comparable equipment, including VDC etc., and have the same pricing difference as now. That makes every sale of an 08 turbo model, a solid coup for the manufacturer. :shades: Hence the winky icon. Based on the quality of the interior materials I observed in NY, I doubt this Impreza is competition for the Legacy from an "upscale" or "feature-rich" perspective, even though it now has comparable interior legroom, which makes a consumer looking for a deal, to pick the Impreza over the Legacy, especially when they don't require the luggage space. :shades:
Sounds like the logical conclusion would be that the model stealing sales away from the Legacy is the model I predicted would be successful - the 2.5i.
You're implying turbo sales are hurting, but that's not necessarily true. They could be flat or even up a little, we'd have to break them down by model.
The Legacy should have been a tad bigger, and now that the 2008 Impreza's wheelbase is nearly the same (only about an inch shorter), surely we'll see the next Legacy grow some more.
You have to look ahead. In less than 2 years a bigger Legacy will be out.
Sounds like the logical conclusion would be that the model stealing sales away from the Legacy is the model I predicted would be successful - the 2.5i.
I guess we agree on this point. The 2.5i will be successful, since it now offers a lot more value/equipment over the outgoing model, while keeping the lid on pricing.
Big difference from the situation with the 08 WRX, which, IMO is pretty lame and will fail in the markeplace. :sick:
Nah, the WRX will have small gains, the 2.5i (and especially Limited or Premium or whatever they call that package) will see bigger gains.
Still, though, remember the volume players for Subaru are the Outback (#1) and the Forester (#2).
My optimism for the Forester matters far more than any Impreza. If the 09 Forester is as improved as I expect it will be, they stand to gain enough sales that the WRX becomes less relevant.
Think about it - even now the Forester outsells the Impreza 2 to 1.
With anywhere between 40-50k sales per year, the Forester has not really come close to rivals like the CR-V, which sees 120k sales/year, far more now (it's the best selling SUV).
So a 50% boost in sales is entirely possible, in fact that's what the updated RAV4 managed, roughly.
If the Forester sees that boost, which I see as entirely possible, the gains alone will cover all current Impreza sales combined.
Successful or not, WRX will not get FHI out of the red. The Forester will.
I think you forgot about Tribeca. I think it's fair to assume it was a false start in 2005 - sort of like early minivans from Toyota. With most of the missteps fixed (hideus front design, weak engine requiring premium), it has a growth potential even greater than Forester, at least percentagewise. They should not sell it as "SUV", but "crossover", as it is the word of choice today.
To be honest I think the Tribeca is too small to see a lot of growth.
06-07 sales numbers were slow. 08 will surely improve, but it may be too little too late to make a big splash. Plus the segment has shifted towards bigger entries that make the Tribeca seem a bit small.
I really like the Tribeca, don't get me wrong. It was a close 2nd choice (we bought a Sienna). It lost out due to space - if it were Outlook or even CX9-sized we'd probably have gone with the Subaru.
I don't see it as getting the sort of volume a Forester can do, though. With a 103.9" wheelbase and a very compact rear suspension, I bet the Forester ends up having MORE cargo room than its big brother.
This will all be corrected as they move the Legacy to a wheelbase about the length of the current Tribeca, and grow the next generation Tribeca to near 200" length.
For now, I envision any significant growth coming from the 2009 Forester.
For now, I envision any significant growth coming from the 2009 Forester.
I think you're right about this. As a current generation Forester owner, I see the 103.9" wheelbase platform as being able to address one of the bigger complaints I have about my car - rear legroom for adults and a more open cargo floor. If Subaru manages to come up with attractive (or at least inoffensive) styling for the new Fozz, and toss in a 5EAT w/sportshift, I think it will attract a lot of buyers who have been turned off by the aged features/styling of the current model. Not to mention a better ride, VDC, steering wheel controls, optional NAV, and *fingers crossed* more airbags.
Of course w/every new redesign there are massive expectations, but this is one area (ie small, rugged wagons) where I believe Subaru's tradition and understanding are strong and I think they'll be able to meet their potential, or at least come very close.
When I met the CEO last year during the 48hrs, I asked for a bigger legacy for a big guy like myself. He laughed and said basically it's in the works.
I fully expect the next legacy to be bigger. I was suprised though, the other night I was parked next to a current gen 3-series and the legacy doors and overall size is larger than the 3 series.
Still lovin my 05, I think that I got a real good one. At least 3 different subie enthusiasts who have driven it, said "wow, what chip do you have?" I'm like, none, it's stock. They were all suprised. Also no matter how badly I drive it in the city/commuting, I'm getting over 20mpg!
And of course a bigger Outback. My guess is the Outback will get the same wheelbase the Tribeca has now. The next Tribeca should grow. It's too close in size to the current Outback.
If you measure the cargo floor on a 5 seat Tribeca vs. an Outback, they are within one inch of each other. One is wider, the other is longer, I forget which. The Tribeca should be bigger in every dimension.
I just went digging around and measuring the rear cargo area for the new Impreza. Rear seats do definately feel more roomy. Trunk area will be marginal for the dog though. I has satisfactory width and depth, but the new suspension design requires raising the floor which gives up 4 inches in height c/w the old wagon. That might be a deal breaker, but then I was thinking I could always drop the seats for dog space. When carrying 3 kids plus dog to go mountain biking I just take the truck now anyway. Still, this is purely an irrational interest in an STi. Smaller 6-7 passenger vehicle still makes much more sense for us as a new vehicle.
Forester is not an Impreza wagon - as Outback is not Legacy wagon. I DO NOT want raised suspension, "rugged" tires or stupid cladding. I want a car that is just like sedan, but it has more cargo space.
I've been here for nearly ten years now and I'm still baffled why Americans don't get that concept of sedan/sporty handling and wagon/hatchback utility. And I literally mean it - the don't get it - you tell them and their eyes get glassy, they shake their heads. It's like there is some mental blockage overcast in this country that the car "has to look" certain way. Amount of hatred towards wagons (and hatchbacks as well) is simply hard to explain in rational terms. :sick:
Maybe there is some kind of indoctrination that starts at preschool. I could see teachers showing pictures of sedan and SUV with caption "Good" and then classic wagon with "Bad".
I've been here for nearly ten years now and I'm still baffled why Americans don't get that concept of sedan/sporty handling and wagon/hatchback utility. And I literally mean it - the don't get it - you tell them and their eyes get glassy, they shake their heads. It's like there is some mental blockage overcast in this country that the car "has to look" certain way. Amount of hatred towards wagons (and hatchbacks as well) is simply hard to explain in rational terms.
Yes, it's true general American attitudes have never embraced the Wagon. However if you had driven our older Station Wagons the connotation was for monstrously sized vehicles the size of a Chevy Suburban truck or even bigger in some cases! I had a Pontiac Grand Safari Station wagon and it was very used when i bought it a gas hog with a huge honking V8 under the hood and i could do power slides on the street that would roll almost any other car. But I like wagons and hatchbacks. The US will probably never warm up to them it's a severe case of myopia. But it's very prevelant. I've owned more cars than I'll admit to and I've had a lot of each and i much more prefer the hatch over the coupe depending on the car. A Porsche 911 is very cool and no hatch required. But for everyday use I'll take a hatch or a wagon. The Impreza is not what it used to be and has far less utility than before and the looks are ...... But it's still a very practical car. My wife is looking at several models but she likes AWD and a base 2.5i will cost a lot less and using regular fuel and no VDC electronic nanny on it might make a good car for her. She's also looking at other models. the WRX has lost the plot and it's very obvious. For me I'm hoping the EVO is available because it's looking more and more like a car I would want to drive. But a base impreza 2.5i with the steel rims would be great. But she still has 4 other cars on her list. For me the EVO is a no brainer unless Subaru stomps the EVO flat in performance in every category by a mile. But that is a sedan. I think wagons were always considered what peoples fathers drove and it's seen as being a car for granpa. For me I'd love to have a BMW 335i Wagon if they made one but they don't. Hot hatches are the way to go and I can see more of them being sold as gas goes up. not everyone hates hatches but overall they are disliked far too much and that i can't explain.
It's pretty much what I expected. Compared to my '06 Limited wagon the ride is more comfortable, and there is much less road noise. It's not quite as quiet as I hoped it would be, but it's much better than mine in that respect.
I also noticed the driver's seat to be a bit more comfortable. The bottom seat bolster is not quite as intrusive, and it it's softer. How that translates during vigorous driving is a question mark, as I didn't really push that hard (the sales guy was with me). The power does seem to come on a bit lower in the rpm band than mine, but not much lower; again, it's a subtle change. I didn't notice the hill-holder clutch, which is good.
The sport grille is okay, but somehow just doesn't look quite finished. I think the grille mesh should go right up and meet the hood edge, which means getting rid of that top thin strip that runs across the top. The logo needs to be larger and moved up towards the top edge.
Compared to mine, the changes are subtle—but good. The sum total of changes makes it a much nicer daily driver. As to sportyness, or fun to drive? Hard to say as I really didn't explore that aspect too much. It's certainly more comfortable, but did the comfort come at the expense of fun to drive? Don't know—which means I need another test drive—hopefully without the sales guy on board.
Bottom line: I don't think I'd trade mine for one yet. Maybe if it had NAV I would. I miss the moonroof, and I do wish for more power. Maybe in a year or two, if they tweak it as per my suggestion below.
Suggestion for SOA:
• Keep this model, but rebadge it S-GT, like what they do in Japan.
• Offer another model slotted in between this one and the STI, in 5-door only. Give the STI's wide body flares, 215/50x17 or 225/50x17 tires, 6-speed (5EAT option w/paddle shifters), and the Legacy GT power rating. Then call this model the WRX!
Nothing beats a test drive, I got to say. I will test drive one, when it gets here (only a couple of base 2.5i sedans have gotten to our local dealer here), especially since it will provide a taste of what the STI will be, when it gets here.
The cruise control "cruise" and "set" green light on the instrument cluster is much harder to see than on my car. The point size of the type is smaller and the green light blub is way too dim.
I can live with the smaller type, and I'm just hoping the light blub wasn't functioning properly.
Also, it has STI-like instruments when the car starts up, which are blank at first and then go red.
I've been around since the 50's and wagons were popular in those days.
As for today, I suspect the constant emphasis on performance vehicles by the automotive press, which are generally sedans or coupes, has helped reinforce the feeling that sedans are good and hatches bad. Also, a lot of economy cars in the 80's were hatches - another bad cloud that is slow to dissipate.
For me, a hatch makes sense. Either an Imprenza WTX or possibly the STI (if Subaru figures out how to get a dual clutch manual into one, and one can ditch the ridiculous wing and other "look-at-me" toy stuff (to put those bucks into driveline and suspension refinement)) seems like a good choice.
As for today, I suspect the constant emphasis on performance vehicles by the automotive press, which are generally sedans or coupes, has helped reinforce the feeling that sedans are good and hatches bad. Also, a lot of economy cars in the 80's were hatches - another bad cloud that is slow to dissipate.
Possibly the press has had something to do with it. For me a hatch is much more practical and I need that and I do NOT want a big honking SUV nor do I want a little one. I am guilty of owning a diesel pickup truck but I just love diesel. I'd love to see the 3 and 5 series diesels come to the US. That would end the diesel debate pretty fast as they are great cars.
For me, a hatch makes sense. Either an Impreza WRX or possibly the STI (if Subaru figures out how to get a dual clutch manual into one, and one can ditch the ridiculous wing and other "look-at-me" toy stuff (to put those bucks into driveline and suspension refinement)) seems like a good choice.
The WRX for me is a lame duck the base 2.5i gives me everything i want and I do not want VDC no matter how great some people think an electronic nanny is. It has to be fully defeatable or it's useless. I don't care about a rear wing unless it's actually functional. The Floppy paddles are all yours, no way do i want that unless it's on a Ferrari and I do a LOT of track time. Imagine doing a 3 point turn in one, talk about backing up traffic! The base model looks better and better as long as the 170Hp isn't dog slow. For me the EVO X has the looks and i took my wife out onto some back dirt roads and let her learn about traction and no traction and no matter how fun it is do NOT drop the clutch at 4000 rpms! :surprise: I worry if she gets into an EVO she's be a maniac on a dirt road. That's my job! :P
Like the mini-van, I believe that Wagons carried the stigma of the 70s and early 80s "family" vehicles for a lot of people. I know we spent a lot of time in the back of a 74 Oldsmobile Custom Cruiser with 3 rows of seats in it. I believe that over time, this stigma may move away from wagons. Dodge did a decent job of marketing the Magnum to try to break the stigma.
For me, I always will need a big-honking SUV to tow my toys with so one of those will reside in my stable for a long time. On a side note, picked up the boat/boat trailer last night after having the trailer manufacturer replace the drum brakes on 2 of the 3 axles with disc brakes. It's like night and day now with the vented discs v. the old drums. The cool thing is that the rotors, pads and calipers are the same as those found on the front of 2500 or 3500 series GMC pickups, so getting replacement parts for it will be easy.
I still wish Subaru would come out with a full sized SUV that I could tow my 10,000lb boat trailer with
On the 2008 WRX front, I'm going to see if my dealer has one so I can give it a good test drive and some real feedback on it.
For me, I always will need a big-honking SUV to tow my toys with so one of those will reside in my stable for a long time. On a side note, picked up the boat/boat trailer last night after having the trailer manufacturer replace the drum brakes on 2 of the 3 axles with disc brakes. It's like night and day now with the vented discs v. the old drums.
Sure makes sense if you have to haul heavy stuff like a car or a boat or whatever over a long haul, you need a Big SUV or pickup truck. I've owned quite a few of them. But to just haul my own [non-permissible content removed] around or just 4 adults, it's a waste. A wagon today is a compromise of a bigger SUV with the practicality of a small car, less cargo and hauling but more than a sedan.
I test drove a five door 08. I'm not a WRX owner, but I did test the 07 as well yesterday.
I may not be the right person to offer an opinion the Rex because I think that the 07s and before are too stiff for the road.
I don't consider the 08 soft. It certainly does not drive like a Camery. Camery's and the 08 Rex are on opposite ends of the spectrum. I can't believe that the comparison was made.
What I didn't like about the new Rex is the bigger look inside the car. It's just the look not the feel. The car still feels great. The acceleration is slightly less of a rush, but the car is loads of fun.
Before driving it I was concerned about the suspension going soft, after driving it I think its an improvement. What I think will need getting used to is looking inside the Rex and seeing that you're in a much bigger car. The stick shift is also higher which makes it seem like you'll need a shorter shifter. The interior looks a bit more modern. Surprisingly the back of the car doesn't look any worse that the Speed3.
I think this car will definitely sell better that the previons Rex.
Is it just me or are all Subaru manual tranny's a bit temperamental?
Cutting to the chase: The MazdaSpeed3 wins, at least for the boyracers fans out there. Guess what? I don't care. I'd still pick the WRX over the Speed3 any day of the week.
Why? The Speed3 is tuned within an inch of it's life. That's great if you're looking for a track car, but not so great for those using it as a daily driver. The WRX is AWD and the Speed3 isn't; another plus in my book for the Subie. Also, as you might expect with a car shoving a ton of HP through the front wheels, the Speed3 is saddled with a bunch of torque-steer.
Nope, the Speed3 is not for me. I will say this however: The WRX isn't as good as could have been—or should have been. The tougher competition will likely keep Subie engineers and marketing people up late at night, and that a "tweaked" WRX will likely show up sooner, rather than later. Yeah, it should have been that way out of the gate, but how often does Subaru get it right first time out? Still, if I were in the market today, I'd have no problems buying a WRX as it is.
I will say this however: The WRX isn't as good as could have been—or should have been. The tougher competition will likely keep Subie engineers and marketing people up late at night, and that a "tweaked" WRX will likely show up sooner, rather than later. Yeah, it should have been that way out of the gate, but how often does Subaru get it right first time out?
This is pretty much what I had stated some time back. I still wouldn't buy a Mazdaspeed 3 but the WRX will probably get some improvements to boost it up, unfortunately cost cutting is never a good thing. I expect for a WRX that performs like it should it will cost a bit more than it does now. Audi A3, Subaru WRX are about it, unless you add in the very expensive EVO which is an STi Competitor anyway. Not much in the AWD market lately, I guess the SUV's are taking over. The Base 2.5i Impreza is a real bargain tho even with steel wheels. It's got all it needs except for more HP but it uses regular fuel. The WRX will probably get a redesign if sales slump which from the reviews it's going to need to stay competitive. The Speed3 is for enthusiasts and targeted by them and will sell a lot of units. The WRX is targeted at older former enthusiasts who want more luxury and yet those people tend to not buy cars as often.
Like the mini-van, I believe that Wagons carried the stigma of the 70s and early 80s "family" vehicles for a lot of people. I know we spent a lot of time in the back of a 74 Oldsmobile Custom Cruiser with 3 rows of seats in it. I believe that over time, this stigma may move away from wagons. Dodge did a decent job of marketing the Magnum to try to break the stigma.
What is funny is in the early 80s, thats what the minivan was supposed to do. My mom said no Olds Custom Crusier (Okay it was the Buick one...) but okay Grand Caravan.
I still wish Subaru would come out with a full sized SUV that I could tow my 10,000lb boat trailer with
Why? I think there are plenty of great choices in the market for something with 10k of towing capacity. Its not a strength for Subaru (nor are minivans/SUVs), I think they should stick to their core strengths. That is what it seems like this thread was so confrontational about. Make what your good at, and make money doing it. If I need a cool mid-sized AWD wagon with a stick I would look at Subaru...oh wait, they don't make one anymore, nevermind, I meant I used to look at Subaru. If I needed a fun turbo stick sedan in the low-20s I would look at Subaru...
What low twenties? It starts 25 on the sticker. Even after cashback and dealer discount it will hardly be "low" twenties if you option/accessorise it just a little bit.
What low twenties? It starts 25 on the sticker. Even after cashback and dealer discount it will hardly be "low" twenties if you option/accessorise it just a little bit.
It will be invoice soon enough, and if they throw a lil cash it will be low 20s. Otherwise, its too costly and or there are things I would rather have in that price range.
What is funny is in the early 80s, thats what the minivan was supposed to do. My mom said no Olds Custom Crusier (Okay it was the Buick one...) but okay Grand Caravan.
And look at the stigma of the mini-van these days....
Why? I think there are plenty of great choices in the market for something with 10k of towing capacity.
The WRX is targeted at older former enthusiasts who want more luxury...
That seemed to be a dig at a 60+ year old enthusiast among us, or was it ?
Actually it wasn't at all although I don't expect a certain forum member to believe that. What I keep hearing and not just in here is how happy that older people are that the Limited lost it's Boi Racer looks aka the "Big Wing". These are from a myriad of forums where people 40+ so my age range have opted to go the more comfy route versus performance machine. Now Subaru did just that. They put in a bigger and nicer interior but at the cost of handling and performance. Now the WRX isn't a POS. I'm NOT saying that. But it's pretty obvious where the money for the interior came from. I said a lot of this stuff before but hey I'm NOT saying that wannabe WRX owners are in the Buick age range. The car was softened from it's original target audience because many buyers wanted refinements and comfort over all out performance. No one can prove that statement wrong. Subaru compromised and maybe they will sell thousands of units more, but I think it's going to hurt them. They need to decide what their demographic is. Is it the 40+ guys who want a AWD performance sedan with a compromise so that it's a more liveable daily driver? Or do they want the Boi racer, Playstation buyers who want to buy a life sized model of their favorite car? I don't think you can have both. The new EVO is probably going to be a balls to the wall car and the STi is probably going to be more comfortable as an everyday driver yet fast and good handling. The EVO will still outdo it as it always has and I've seen enough video's and Top Gear on the various EVO's to know that the Subaru was on top but no longer. But the new EVO is not going to appeal to the 40+ crowd as much as the late 20's early 30's crowd. For me, I buy what I like. My wife after learning to drift a diesel pickup truck on dirt roads is really gung ho about an EVO providing she can learn to drift and autocross it. Which is obviously, of course she can. I'd let her type out her opinions if you guys really want to see what she thinks of the various cars but she hasn't had much driving experience and her english is quite good but not perfect. he does not like the WRX and think's we shouldn't buy it based on a lot of factors. The base 2.5i Impreza as her daily driver she likes that idea tho. She also likes some other cars. For me I need a bigger car for long highway hauls and I'll either buy an EVO, or a BMW 135i. She has a few cars on her list but She also likes the Fit and we used to own a 1.3L Jazz (same as the Fit) I just think Subaru needs to define it's target demographic clearly and just look at the video of the new WRX it rolls like a pig. Yes it's faster and all that but my gosh it's really wallowing and the current test against the mazdaspeed 3 doesn't help it to look any better. i think Subaru missed the mark with the current WRX and I think dropping or making optional the rear wing which was a delete on my WRX was no drama. But it's lost it's edge. I will be interested to see how well the STi does against the EVO performance-wise. Maybe it will spank the EVO? The EVO wins in looks hands down. But for me I see less car for more money and less performance and less fun. Yes, I will drive it when I get a chance. I wanted a diesel but won't be able to wait until 2009 so it's going to be a time to go performance at least with one car. I would like to point out that the majority of older owners 40+ and as it gets well into the plus side want more comfort from their cars. they also want their cars to last a long time and tend to trade them in less. Maybe not Subie owners but read various forums and you will read this all the time. These are mainstream buyers and that is who Subaru is now catering to. I can find a link to the article if I have to. mainstream buyers in general fit a certain demographic and buy a lot of cars. Small wonder Subaru wants a slice of that pie. Let's see how they do. Not even one review on the WRX on Edmunds yet. Time will tell the story. :shades:
I'm not surprised at all - the Speed3 had summer tires and of course it ruled in the slalom, skidpad, and braking.
I find it surprising that the WRX was both quicker and more fuel efficient, though. Goes to show the powertrain is solid.
Put summer tires on the WRX and re-do the test.
I really like the Speed3 but with that much power it should have had the Haldex AWD from the Speed6 sedan. As is, I think I'd actually rather take a plain 2.3s model. Mazda actually limits torque in 1st and 2nd gear and it still has torque steer.
The Speed3 is tuned within an inch of it's life
You're correct, and I mean that literally.
Early on Mazda had a problem with an engine mount, NVH actually shook a front motor mount loose and the engines were nearly falling out of the engine bay. A quick recall and some lock-tite address that issue, but the car certainly is very high strung.
Of course, that will appeal to certain people. Maybe steve will end up with one of those?
I offered my summer/track tires/wheels (Bridgestone Potenza RE-01R (P225/45R17) on Prodrive P1 17" x 7" wheels) for testing of the 2008 WRX, but I didn't receive any response that we could do it.
Comments
Want to know what I think? Form your own opinion! At least reserve judgement until you've driven one. The review is what a single Edmunds editor thought about it, an opinion that contradicts the 2nd opinion at that.
Feel free to think for yourself. Disagree with car reviews, you have the right! It's your money. The only opinion that matters is YOURS.
From objective measures the new WRX simply clobbers the old one.
That fact remains undisputed.
This issue is closed from my perspective
I guess it will remain undisputed, then. :P
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Never mind that, though, this is very exciting news for the 2009 Forester. That will have a true wagon shape to the back and won't be shorter than the outgoing model, so I have high hopes for a rather huge cargo area, and great space efficiency.
Can't wait to see the Forester, this is such a great platform to build it on. :shades:
Also, in the US, the non-WRX models (non-turbo models) are selling more, to a corresponding decline in the sales of the turbo-models, that have a HIGHER MARGIN
I told you so.
I have no idea what your winky icon is for.
Doesn't surprise me to see the Impreza eat up some Legacy sales, either, as the Legacy is now several years old and the new Impreza is so upscale, so cost-added, feature-rich, plus now with VDC (!), that the upscale Legacy will suffer.
LOL
The winky icon was for the fact that in case of the 07, there were significant differences between the Turbo and the non-Turbo from an equipment perspective and YET, the Turbo had higher margins.
When it comes to the 08, that margin will widen even further, since the Turbo and the non-Turbo will have comparable equipment, including VDC etc., and have the same pricing difference as now. That makes every sale of an 08 turbo model, a solid coup for the manufacturer. :shades: Hence the winky icon. Based on the quality of the interior materials I observed in NY, I doubt this Impreza is competition for the Legacy from an "upscale" or "feature-rich" perspective, even though it now has comparable interior legroom, which makes a consumer looking for a deal, to pick the Impreza over the Legacy, especially when they don't require the luggage space. :shades:
You're implying turbo sales are hurting, but that's not necessarily true. They could be flat or even up a little, we'd have to break them down by model.
The Legacy should have been a tad bigger, and now that the 2008 Impreza's wheelbase is nearly the same (only about an inch shorter), surely we'll see the next Legacy grow some more.
You have to look ahead. In less than 2 years a bigger Legacy will be out.
I guess we agree on this point.
Big difference from the situation with the 08 WRX, which, IMO is pretty lame and will fail in the markeplace. :sick:
Still, though, remember the volume players for Subaru are the Outback (#1) and the Forester (#2).
My optimism for the Forester matters far more than any Impreza. If the 09 Forester is as improved as I expect it will be, they stand to gain enough sales that the WRX becomes less relevant.
Think about it - even now the Forester outsells the Impreza 2 to 1.
With anywhere between 40-50k sales per year, the Forester has not really come close to rivals like the CR-V, which sees 120k sales/year, far more now (it's the best selling SUV).
So a 50% boost in sales is entirely possible, in fact that's what the updated RAV4 managed, roughly.
If the Forester sees that boost, which I see as entirely possible, the gains alone will cover all current Impreza sales combined.
Successful or not, WRX will not get FHI out of the red. The Forester will.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
To be honest I think the Tribeca is too small to see a lot of growth.
06-07 sales numbers were slow. 08 will surely improve, but it may be too little too late to make a big splash. Plus the segment has shifted towards bigger entries that make the Tribeca seem a bit small.
I really like the Tribeca, don't get me wrong. It was a close 2nd choice (we bought a Sienna). It lost out due to space - if it were Outlook or even CX9-sized we'd probably have gone with the Subaru.
I don't see it as getting the sort of volume a Forester can do, though. With a 103.9" wheelbase and a very compact rear suspension, I bet the Forester ends up having MORE cargo room than its big brother.
This will all be corrected as they move the Legacy to a wheelbase about the length of the current Tribeca, and grow the next generation Tribeca to near 200" length.
For now, I envision any significant growth coming from the 2009 Forester.
I think you're right about this. As a current generation Forester owner, I see the 103.9" wheelbase platform as being able to address one of the bigger complaints I have about my car - rear legroom for adults and a more open cargo floor. If Subaru manages to come up with attractive (or at least inoffensive) styling for the new Fozz, and toss in a 5EAT w/sportshift, I think it will attract a lot of buyers who have been turned off by the aged features/styling of the current model. Not to mention a better ride, VDC, steering wheel controls, optional NAV, and *fingers crossed* more airbags.
Of course w/every new redesign there are massive expectations, but this is one area (ie small, rugged wagons) where I believe Subaru's tradition and understanding are strong and I think they'll be able to meet their potential, or at least come very close.
Doug
I fully expect the next legacy to be bigger. I was suprised though, the other night I was parked next to a current gen 3-series and the legacy doors and overall size is larger than the 3 series.
Still lovin my 05, I think that I got a real good one. At least 3 different subie enthusiasts who have driven it, said "wow, what chip do you have?" I'm like, none, it's stock. They were all suprised.
-mike
And of course a bigger Outback. My guess is the Outback will get the same wheelbase the Tribeca has now. The next Tribeca should grow. It's too close in size to the current Outback.
If you measure the cargo floor on a 5 seat Tribeca vs. an Outback, they are within one inch of each other. One is wider, the other is longer, I forget which. The Tribeca should be bigger in every dimension.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Features/articleId=121914?tid=edmunds.il.ho- - me.photopanel..2.*
Should be fun to watch, as he'll be in a new race-prepped '08 WRX.
More here on Straightline.
http://blogs.edmunds.com/Straightline/3161
Bob
2018 430i Gran Coupe
-mike
I've been here for nearly ten years now and I'm still baffled why Americans don't get that concept of sedan/sporty handling and wagon/hatchback utility. And I literally mean it - the don't get it - you tell them and their eyes get glassy, they shake their heads. It's like there is some mental blockage overcast in this country that the car "has to look" certain way. Amount of hatred towards wagons (and hatchbacks as well) is simply hard to explain in rational terms. :sick:
Maybe there is some kind of indoctrination that starts at preschool. I could see teachers showing pictures of sedan and SUV with caption "Good" and then classic wagon with "Bad".
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Yes, it's true general American attitudes have never embraced the Wagon. However if you had driven our older Station Wagons the connotation was for monstrously sized vehicles the size of a Chevy Suburban truck or even bigger in some cases!
I had a Pontiac Grand Safari Station wagon and it was very used when i bought it a gas hog with a huge honking V8 under the hood and i could do power slides on the street that would roll almost any other car.
But I like wagons and hatchbacks. The US will probably never warm up to them it's a severe case of myopia. But it's very prevelant. I've owned more cars than I'll admit to and I've had a lot of each and i much more prefer the hatch over the coupe depending on the car. A Porsche 911 is very cool and no hatch required. But for everyday use I'll take a hatch or a wagon.
The Impreza is not what it used to be and has far less utility than before and the looks are ......
But it's still a very practical car. My wife is looking at several models but she likes AWD and a base 2.5i will cost a lot less and using regular fuel and no VDC electronic nanny on it might make a good car for her. She's also looking at other models. the WRX has lost the plot and it's very obvious.
For me I'm hoping the EVO is available because it's looking more and more like a car I would want to drive. But a base impreza 2.5i with the steel rims would be great.
But she still has 4 other cars on her list. For me the EVO is a no brainer unless Subaru stomps the EVO flat in performance in every category by a mile.
But that is a sedan.
I think wagons were always considered what peoples fathers drove and it's seen as being a car for granpa.
For me I'd love to have a BMW 335i Wagon if they made one but they don't.
Hot hatches are the way to go and I can see more of them being sold as gas goes up.
not everyone hates hatches but overall they are disliked far too much and that i can't explain.
I also noticed the driver's seat to be a bit more comfortable. The bottom seat bolster is not quite as intrusive, and it it's softer. How that translates during vigorous driving is a question mark, as I didn't really push that hard (the sales guy was with me). The power does seem to come on a bit lower in the rpm band than mine, but not much lower; again, it's a subtle change. I didn't notice the hill-holder clutch, which is good.
The sport grille is okay, but somehow just doesn't look quite finished. I think the grille mesh should go right up and meet the hood edge, which means getting rid of that top thin strip that runs across the top. The logo needs to be larger and moved up towards the top edge.
Compared to mine, the changes are subtle—but good. The sum total of changes makes it a much nicer daily driver. As to sportyness, or fun to drive? Hard to say as I really didn't explore that aspect too much. It's certainly more comfortable, but did the comfort come at the expense of fun to drive? Don't know—which means I need another test drive—hopefully without the sales guy on board.
Bottom line: I don't think I'd trade mine for one yet. Maybe if it had NAV I would. I miss the moonroof, and I do wish for more power. Maybe in a year or two, if they tweak it as per my suggestion below.
Suggestion for SOA:
• Keep this model, but rebadge it S-GT, like what they do in Japan.
• Offer another model slotted in between this one and the STI, in 5-door only. Give the STI's wide body flares, 215/50x17 or 225/50x17 tires, 6-speed (5EAT option w/paddle shifters), and the Legacy GT power rating. Then call this model the WRX!
Oh, make sure a moonroof is also available!
Bob
I can live with the smaller type, and I'm just hoping the light blub wasn't functioning properly.
Also, it has STI-like instruments when the car starts up, which are blank at first and then go red.
Bob
As for today, I suspect the constant emphasis on performance vehicles by the automotive press, which are generally sedans or coupes, has helped reinforce the feeling that sedans are good and hatches bad. Also, a lot of economy cars in the 80's were hatches - another bad cloud that is slow to dissipate.
For me, a hatch makes sense. Either an Imprenza WTX or possibly the STI (if Subaru figures out how to get a dual clutch manual into one, and one can ditch the ridiculous wing and other "look-at-me" toy stuff (to put those bucks into driveline and suspension refinement)) seems like a good choice.
Possibly the press has had something to do with it.
For me a hatch is much more practical and I need that and I do NOT want a big honking SUV nor do I want a little one. I am guilty of owning a diesel pickup truck but I just love diesel.
For me, a hatch makes sense. Either an Impreza WRX or possibly the STI (if Subaru figures out how to get a dual clutch manual into one, and one can ditch the ridiculous wing and other "look-at-me" toy stuff (to put those bucks into driveline and suspension refinement)) seems like a good choice.
The WRX for me is a lame duck the base 2.5i gives me everything i want and I do not want VDC no matter how great some people think an electronic nanny is. It has to be fully defeatable or it's useless.
I don't care about a rear wing unless it's actually functional. The Floppy paddles are all yours, no way do i want that unless it's on a Ferrari and I do a LOT of track time. Imagine doing a 3 point turn in one, talk about backing up traffic!
The base model looks better and better as long as the 170Hp isn't dog slow.
For me the EVO X has the looks and i took my wife out onto some back dirt roads and let her learn about traction and no traction and no matter how fun it is do NOT drop the clutch at 4000 rpms! :surprise:
I worry if she gets into an EVO she's be a maniac on a dirt road. That's my job! :P
For me, I always will need a big-honking SUV to tow my toys with so one of those will reside in my stable for a long time. On a side note, picked up the boat/boat trailer last night after having the trailer manufacturer replace the drum brakes on 2 of the 3 axles with disc brakes. It's like night and day now with the vented discs v. the old drums. The cool thing is that the rotors, pads and calipers are the same as those found on the front of 2500 or 3500 series GMC pickups, so getting replacement parts for it will be easy.
I still wish Subaru would come out with a full sized SUV that I could tow my 10,000lb boat trailer with
On the 2008 WRX front, I'm going to see if my dealer has one so I can give it a good test drive and some real feedback on it.
-mike
Sure makes sense if you have to haul heavy stuff like a car or a boat or whatever over a long haul, you need a Big SUV or pickup truck. I've owned quite a few of them. But to just haul my own [non-permissible content removed] around or just 4 adults, it's a waste.
A wagon today is a compromise of a bigger SUV with the practicality of a small car, less cargo and hauling but more than a sedan.
I may not be the right person to offer an opinion the Rex because I think that the 07s and before are too stiff for the road.
I don't consider the 08 soft. It certainly does not drive like a Camery. Camery's and the 08 Rex are on opposite ends of the spectrum. I can't believe that the comparison was made.
What I didn't like about the new Rex is the bigger look inside the car. It's just the look not the feel. The car still feels great. The acceleration is slightly less of a rush, but the car is loads of fun.
Before driving it I was concerned about the suspension going soft, after driving it I think its an improvement. What I think will need getting used to is looking inside the Rex and seeing that you're in a much bigger car. The stick shift is also higher which makes it seem like you'll need a shorter shifter. The interior looks a bit more modern. Surprisingly the back of the car doesn't look any worse that the Speed3.
I think this car will definitely sell better that the previons Rex.
Is it just me or are all Subaru manual tranny's a bit temperamental?
Bob
Aligning the gears, having to put it in 2nd to get it in 1st.
Cutting to the chase: The MazdaSpeed3 wins, at least for the boyracers fans out there. Guess what? I don't care. I'd still pick the WRX over the Speed3 any day of the week.
Why? The Speed3 is tuned within an inch of it's life. That's great if you're looking for a track car, but not so great for those using it as a daily driver. The WRX is AWD and the Speed3 isn't; another plus in my book for the Subie. Also, as you might expect with a car shoving a ton of HP through the front wheels, the Speed3 is saddled with a bunch of torque-steer.
Nope, the Speed3 is not for me. I will say this however: The WRX isn't as good as could have been—or should have been. The tougher competition will likely keep Subie engineers and marketing people up late at night, and that a "tweaked" WRX will likely show up sooner, rather than later. Yeah, it should have been that way out of the gate, but how often does Subaru get it right first time out? Still, if I were in the market today, I'd have no problems buying a WRX as it is.
Bob
This is pretty much what I had stated some time back.
I still wouldn't buy a Mazdaspeed 3 but the WRX will probably get some improvements to boost it up, unfortunately cost cutting is never a good thing. I expect for a WRX that performs like it should it will cost a bit more than it does now.
Audi A3, Subaru WRX are about it, unless you add in the very expensive EVO which is an STi Competitor anyway.
Not much in the AWD market lately, I guess the SUV's are taking over.
The Base 2.5i Impreza is a real bargain tho even with steel wheels. It's got all it needs except for more HP but it uses regular fuel.
The WRX will probably get a redesign if sales slump which from the reviews it's going to need to stay competitive.
The Speed3 is for enthusiasts and targeted by them and will sell a lot of units. The WRX is targeted at older former enthusiasts who want more luxury and yet those people tend to not buy cars as often.
Don't get me started... :mad:
Bob
What is funny is in the early 80s, thats what the minivan was supposed to do. My mom said no Olds Custom Crusier (Okay it was the Buick one...) but okay Grand Caravan.
I still wish Subaru would come out with a full sized SUV that I could tow my 10,000lb boat trailer with
Why? I think there are plenty of great choices in the market for something with 10k of towing capacity. Its not a strength for Subaru (nor are minivans/SUVs), I think they should stick to their core strengths. That is what it seems like this thread was so confrontational about. Make what your good at, and make money doing it. If I need a cool mid-sized AWD wagon with a stick I would look at Subaru...oh wait, they don't make one anymore, nevermind, I meant I used to look at Subaru. If I needed a fun turbo stick sedan in the low-20s I would look at Subaru...
2018 430i Gran Coupe
It will be invoice soon enough, and if they throw a lil cash it will be low 20s. Otherwise, its too costly and or there are things I would rather have in that price range.
That seemed to be a dig at a 60+ year old enthusiast among us, or was it ?
And look at the stigma of the mini-van these days....
Why? I think there are plenty of great choices in the market for something with 10k of towing capacity.
I agree, just a pie-in-the-sky wish on my list!
-mike
That seemed to be a dig at a 60+ year old enthusiast among us, or was it ?
Actually it wasn't at all although I don't expect a certain forum member to believe that.
What I keep hearing and not just in here is how happy that older people are that the Limited lost it's Boi Racer looks aka the "Big Wing".
These are from a myriad of forums where people 40+ so my age range have opted to go the more comfy route versus performance machine. Now Subaru did just that. They put in a bigger and nicer interior but at the cost of handling and performance. Now the WRX isn't a POS. I'm NOT saying that. But it's pretty obvious where the money for the interior came from.
I said a lot of this stuff before but hey I'm NOT saying that wannabe WRX owners are in the Buick age range.
The car was softened from it's original target audience because many buyers wanted refinements and comfort over all out performance. No one can prove that statement wrong.
Subaru compromised and maybe they will sell thousands of units more, but I think it's going to hurt them. They need to decide what their demographic is. Is it the 40+ guys who want a AWD performance sedan with a compromise so that it's a more liveable daily driver? Or do they want the Boi racer, Playstation buyers who want to buy a life sized model of their favorite car? I don't think you can have both.
The new EVO is probably going to be a balls to the wall car and the STi is probably going to be more comfortable as an everyday driver yet fast and good handling.
The EVO will still outdo it as it always has and I've seen enough video's and Top Gear on the various EVO's to know that the Subaru was on top but no longer. But the new EVO is not going to appeal to the 40+ crowd as much as the late 20's early 30's crowd. For me, I buy what I like.
My wife after learning to drift a diesel pickup truck on dirt roads is really gung ho about an EVO providing she can learn to drift and autocross it. Which is obviously, of course she can.
I'd let her type out her opinions if you guys really want to see what she thinks of the various cars but she hasn't had much driving experience and her english is quite good but not perfect.
he does not like the WRX and think's we shouldn't buy it based on a lot of factors. The base 2.5i Impreza as her daily driver she likes that idea tho. She also likes some other cars. For me I need a bigger car for long highway hauls and I'll either buy an EVO, or a BMW 135i.
She has a few cars on her list but She also likes the Fit and we used to own a 1.3L Jazz (same as the Fit)
I just think Subaru needs to define it's target demographic clearly and just look at the video of the new WRX it rolls like a pig. Yes it's faster and all that but my gosh it's really wallowing and the current test against the mazdaspeed 3 doesn't help it to look any better.
i think Subaru missed the mark with the current WRX and I think dropping or making optional the rear wing which was a delete on my WRX was no drama. But it's lost it's edge. I will be interested to see how well the STi does against the EVO performance-wise. Maybe it will spank the EVO? The EVO wins in looks hands down.
But for me I see less car for more money and less performance and less fun. Yes, I will drive it when I get a chance. I wanted a diesel but won't be able to wait until 2009 so it's going to be a time to go performance at least with one car.
I would like to point out that the majority of older owners 40+ and as it gets well into the plus side want more comfort from their cars. they also want their cars to last a long time and tend to trade them in less. Maybe not Subie owners but read various forums and you will read this all the time. These are mainstream buyers and that is who Subaru is now catering to. I can find a link to the article if I have to.
mainstream buyers in general fit a certain demographic and buy a lot of cars. Small wonder Subaru wants a slice of that pie.
Let's see how they do. Not even one review on the WRX on Edmunds yet.
Time will tell the story. :shades:
I find it surprising that the WRX was both quicker and more fuel efficient, though. Goes to show the powertrain is solid.
Put summer tires on the WRX and re-do the test.
I really like the Speed3 but with that much power it should have had the Haldex AWD from the Speed6 sedan. As is, I think I'd actually rather take a plain 2.3s model. Mazda actually limits torque in 1st and 2nd gear and it still has torque steer.
The Speed3 is tuned within an inch of it's life
You're correct, and I mean that literally.
Early on Mazda had a problem with an engine mount, NVH actually shook a front motor mount loose and the engines were nearly falling out of the engine bay. A quick recall and some lock-tite address that issue, but the car certainly is very high strung.
Of course, that will appeal to certain people. Maybe steve will end up with one of those?
I offered my summer/track tires/wheels (Bridgestone Potenza RE-01R (P225/45R17) on Prodrive P1 17" x 7" wheels) for testing of the 2008 WRX, but I didn't receive any response that we could do it.
Ironically a Speed6 (with summer tires BTW) was also in that test but the Subaru beat it in every way.
Bob
Even so, 16.9 gallons is marginal even for the WRX. Range isn't that good.
Bob