Honda CR-V Rear Differential Problem?
2001hondacrv
Member Posts: 11
First off, I love my CRV and have had few problems with it. I've searched the forums and it appears that I'm probably needing to have my rear differential fluid replaced or at least checked - I get a "rubbing" noise when making a hard turn, either left or right. Okay barring that - how dangerous is it to continue to drive w/out having it checked or replaced? And what could the end result end up being? Also, with my past dealer I explained this problem over and over and they had no clue what the problem was! ugh! Thanks in advance everyone.
See Also
Edmunds Answers: CR-V Differential Problems
See Also
Edmunds Answers: CR-V Differential Problems
0
Comments
In my case, it'd be either A) After the car's been idle, going slowly in reverse with the steering wheel cranked all the way to the right or left, it'd just start vibrating, or
I just got back from the dealership and had the rear diff. fluid replaced, and seems like the noise is gone.
Replace the fluid with HONDA's Dual Pump fluid (You can only get it at the dealer, at about $6 a quart, you will need 1.2 quarts per change). If that does not help, replace 3 more times with driving for a day or two in between. If that does not help, then the differential is beyond repair. You can ghetto rig it by removing the propeller shaft and just drive in 2 WD mode.
NAS
Good Luck....
My CRV is driving very smooth now and even the shaking when stopped at a Signal light in DRIVE Mode is now gone. I thought that was due to the 4 cylinder engine but WOW, this must be somehow related to the 4 Wheel Drive and you can feel it on the entire Drive Train. It is now gone.
My only question is if HONDA knows about this, why are they quietly servicing customers? I wonder when the next this will appear again. The Maintenance schedule calls for at 90,000 KM but I ended up doing this at 28,000 KM. I will keep an eye on this and maybe do this FLUSH every 25,000 KM.
I thought HONDAs were solid and I am now thinking not to purchase HONDA for my second vehicle.
Anymore thoughts on how many people are seeing this and if HONDA has proactively done a Total RECALL on all CRVs to fix this? I checked RECALL web page for Honda CRVs and there is nothing.
CDNMECH
2001HondaCRV
My CRV is driving very smooth now and even the shaking when stopped at a Signal light in DRIVE Mode is now gone. I thought that was due to the 4 cylinder engine but WOW, this must be somehow related to the 4 Wheel Drive and you can feel it on the entire Drive Train. It is now gone.
My only question is if HONDA knows about this, why are they quietly servicing customers? I wonder when the next this will appear again. The Maintenance schedule calls for at 90,000 KM but I ended up doing this at 28,000 KM. I will keep an eye on this and maybe do this FLUSH every 25,000 KM.
I thought HONDAs were solid and I am now thinking not to purchase HONDA for my second vehicle.
Anymore thoughts on how many people are seeing this and if HONDA has proactively done a Total RECALL on all CRVs to fix this? I checked RECALL web page for Honda CRVs and there is nothing.
CDNMECH
Glad differential flush fixed your problem. Although I am not sure how the shaking was related to the differential, unless dealer also flushed the tranny (assuming you drive auto).
There won't be a recall since this is not a safety related issue. The noise gives you enough warning to change the fluid.
As to the longevity of the fluid, it depends on the amount of AWD action you get, and how wet your area is. There is a breather tube on top of the differential and water can get in, which dilutes the fluid.
Generally, people have been changing rear differential fluid at 15,000 mile intervals and auto tranny fluid at 30,000 mile intervals.
"Rear differential" in the CR-V is not a real rear differential, but more like a transfer case and limited slip differential in one.
On the 05-06 the fast acting cams engage the rear wheel when the front wheels turn faster than the rear, essentially transferring the power to the rear. Then the rest of the power is transferred through the same dual pump hydraulic system used on Honda's since 1986 Civic Wagon AWD (including 1997-2004 CR-V).
The hydraulic system relies on speed differential to create enough pressure to activate the clutch packs to connect the rear wheels to the spinning propeller shaft.
When fluid is old or contaminated it may inadvertently engnage the rear, and act as if the transfer case was locked in a conventional 4WD system, hence the scrubbing and the noise.
When you turn, the inside wheels travel less distance than the outside wheels. This is side to side differential, CR-V has open differential. But, when you turn the front outside wheel travels more than the rear inside wheel, which in a conventional locked 4WD system will cause binding. Here the rear differential acts as a limited slip transfer case, allowing some slip front to rear so that the driveline does not bind.
There is a great video on HondaSUV on how the "Real Time AWD" system works.
It is actaully a lot simpler than other automatic AWD systems out there. Think of VTM that Honda uses on the Pilot/Ridgeline/MDX, it is controlled by the main computer.
I think that Marketing people got a hold of the maintenance schedule and changed the intervals, just like they changed the valve adjustment intervals on the First Generation CR-V from 15,000 mile (Acura Integra) to 90,000 mile intervals on the CR-V, which uses essentially the same engine.
If you want simple design, Honda is probably not going to fit the bill. The engine in your CR-V constantly advances or retards timing depending on the load, speed, throttle position, and octane rating of the gas.
Then, on top of that, the engine (Gen 2 and up) switches from 12 valve operation (from idle to 2500 RPM, VTEC-E mode) to 16 valve operation (from 2500 RPM to 5000 RPM), and then the lift and duration of the valves is adjusted to the high RPM operation (not on CR-V, but on Acura TSX, which is 90% the same). While at the same time changing the ignition advance or retardation.
Honda is not about simplicity. Everything they do is about pushing the limits of engineering. But making sure that longevity is preserved. Honda engines pretty much outlive the shell.
The new A-VTEC engines that are going into the 2008 Accord are going to be the most advanced gasoline engines out there.
Honda had first VTEC in a mass produced vehicle in 1991, it took the rest of the companies at least 10 years to catch up. Now, everyone has a version of it, VVTL-i, VANOS... ect.
I have also have intermitten shaking problems when braking. In addition I have a problem with the car gearing down after I have taken my foot off of the brake.
I am concerned about how the fluid is becoming contaminated. I have spoken to some people who have said that there is something breaking down-failing that is causing the contamination. Do you know what causes the contamination?
The thing is, this is my 15th Honda since 1977 and so far I have more problems with the CRV than any other Honda I’ve ever owned.
At 25K the check engine light came on—the problem was a “Fuel tank pressure sensor” It took the dealer two attempts to at least get the light off, but the car has never been the same. The accelerator pedal feels “hard” Cruise Control is slow to respond and feels sluggish on grades and gas mileage is barely 24.
The vehicle was assembled in UK
Comments?
I was very surprised to find out that this is an on going old problem and the dealers just wait until a consumer complains about the noise. My dealer did mention "as per bulletin" in the repair paper work but did not tell me that this is an on going problem. I had thought that this must be a new problem related to the 2006 model. I am feeling very uneasy about the performance of the car.
I agree with you that Honda should do proactive fix on the breather hole as it is the root cause of the the problem.
Let me know if you had the clutch replaced per the bulletin or just the differential fluid. I am seriously going back and asking for the clutch to be replaced as I am sensing beginning of shaking after 5Km from the service of differential fluid flush.
Has Honda created a LEMON here?
For my second car, I purchased Toyota as I was not impressed with Honda on these issues that my wife drives.
My concern too is if this is a known issue, why doesnt Honda issue a recall on it????
Hopefully, my problem will be fixed upon replacement of the part.
My concern too is if this is a known issue, why doesnt Honda issue a recall on it????
Hopefully, my problem will be fixed upon replacement of the part.
The dealer needs to train mechanics better. Honda recomends 3 consequtive fluid changes (with 10 mile drives in between) to resolve the differential problem. If that does not help, then parts can be replaced.
If anyone is still having the griding issue i would insist they change the rear differential assembly and make sure they get the proper seals!
http://www.in.honda.com/Rjanisis/pubs/SB/A07-024.PDF.
It says it will be covered during the warranty period and possibly out of it if you negotiate right.
Try it this way:
Service bulletin 07-024
As for the maintenance schedule, for normal driving my maintenance schedule that came with the car says change rear diff fluid at 90k/5 years. The tech at the dealer showed me the severe service schedule (fyi, according to the tech city driving = severe driving) for the '02-'06 CR-V which recommends changing the fluid every 30k.
And the OWNER's MANUAL describes what constitutes NORMAL and SEVERE schedule. And, yes, city driving is SEVERE. 95% of the population in the US will fall under SEVERE schedule due to the numerous facts included in the SEVERE description in the OWNER's MANUAL. BTW, the OWNER's MANUAL recommends 60,000 rear differential fluid interval for SEVERE schedule.
I ended up changing my 2003 differential fluid about every 20K miles. I did this because the rear end was making noise; changing out the fluid fixed the problem.
I ended up changing my 2003 differential fluid about every 20K miles. I did this because the rear end was making noise; changing out the fluid fixed the problem.
I don't doubt. Realistically, the fluid is probably onle capable of withstanding 15,000 miles of AWD use. And that is the exact mileage when I changed mine, well before it started making noise. Replaced MTF as well.
I was just stating that people who don't read their OWNER's MANUAL are at the dealer's mercy when it comes to the dealer BSing their way out of covering it under warranty.
I don't know what the hang up is about Reading The Farking Manual. It is not like too much knowledge has killed anyone. Besides, it is much better to know exactly how to take care of your $20,000+ toy than seeing who the "Big loser" is this week, or whatever TV program is interfiering with the Owner's reading duties.
Manual recommends every 90,000 Km for rear diff fluid change. HONDA knows about this problem but will not do a recall. It seems ever more present in 2006 and 2007 models.
This is covered in Drive Train warranty and my local dealer had no problem changing the fluid. The issue is now that
the vehicle is now running very rough during idle and when
stopping (Shaking when braking). I think I will go with
Toyota next time.
Does anyone see Honda doing a proper recall and fixing this Drive train problem properly?
I say read the manual regardless of what you do. Educated consumer is scammers worst nightmare. If the dealer told me the story he told the Original poster, I would have just replyed with what I know from the manual and cought him in a lie. It would definatly make him uncomfortable, and make it more difficult to lie to me again.
What exactly do you want Honda to "recall"? There is no known safety issue here, just noisy rear transmissions.
I suppose I am wondering what the "recall" would fix.
What exactly do you want Honda to "recall"? There is no known safety issue here, just noisy rear transmissions.
I suppose I am wondering what the "recall" would fix.
The only thing Honda should do is send one of those sticky pages for people to put over the existing one with the new maintenance schedule. They have done it in the past.
I think this what cdamech wants Honda to do. Question is, will he find his Owner's Manual to paste the sticky sheet on the right page?
bluiegod- Just a curiosity question here (tongue-in-cheek). I'm trying to think of a post where you didn't mention the owner's manual???
P.S. I always read my owner's manual cover to cover, often before I buy the vehicle.
Me too. I knew what was in the manual before I bought the car.
I just don't understand what is the hang up about reading the manual. I read manuals to everything I own, Car, Motorcycle, lawnmower, generator, edger, weedwacker, TV, radio, thermostat... literally everything.
I am willing to admit that I don't know a lot more than I do know, so I am not going to start operating this new piece of equipment without knowing everything about it.
I guess I am just stupid. Other people do know everything and don't need to read no stinking Owner's Manual.
But, if they did know everything, why would they be asking questions that are already answered in the manual? hmmm something to ponder about.
I got a manual before buying my last new car and read it. Some of it I didn't understand. Right now I couldn't tell you much about my Quest since the manual is in the car and it's at my wife's office. I may have downloaded one; I consult the pdf manual for my new camera way more than I look at the paper one. Having people describe some operations in a description too.
After getting my Outback I managed to turn the parking lights on and couldn't figure out how to turn them off. A Subaru Crew member told me about the "hidden" extra switch on top of the steering wheel. I finally found that in the manual too, but it was indexed so poorly it took me twenty minutes of page flipping to find it.
Then there are those MB and BMW manuals that are so big, people put them in their trunks and forget about them.
In Jan of 07 my check engine light lit up—Dealer indicated it was a “Fuel Pressure Sensor Gauge” After 3 days in service I got the CRV back and before I drove home, the light was on again and car was virtually vibrating in idle.
This time the dealer had the vehicle for 4 days and indicated that all the “Wires” leading to Fuel Tank were corroded and had to be “Changed Out”
When I picked car up, the CE Light was off and has not come back on...However .!!! The car has never felt the same since .The accelerator seems to have more resistance than normal and there is a slight delay in accelerating in cruise control Gas Mileage has been in the 25 MPG range (Which is puzzling)
Now why am I writing this in the “CR-V Rear Differential Problem” thread? Because In mid-August my dealer replaced the rear diff fluid after I heard a “moan” and guess what, the problem I had associated with the “Check Engine Light” went away. Now, some 1500 miles later I am beginning to feel the pressure on the accelerator (Which I now believe was always a symptom of the rear diff problem.
In August, the dealer replaced the fluid once—not three times as recommended. Before I go back (I am just about to hit “36,000” miles. I believe they need to re-address the rear diff fluid etc. in my vehicle. Do I make sense?
Thanks
Ted
Edited to include: The “Moan” which lead to the Rear Diff Fluid Change in Aug has not returned .Yet