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Obviously, there are many factors other than just vehicle safety enhancements that drive(pun intended I guess) these numbers such as better roads, driver trainin, enforcment of seat belt and DWI laws, speed limits, medical advancements etc. etc. However, I believe by far the biggest impact item has been the actual changes to cars themselves.
Consider this when deciding whether to replace that 10 year old car or not just based on cost or MPG alone and also when complaining that cars have gotten too heavy. All that safety equipment adds up but is worth the extra protection IMO.
My oldest son found a 2006 S40 he wanted badly to buy, to replace a 2000 626. The 626 has only two airbags and no ABS. The Volvo has all the safety gear. One of the reasons he said he really liked the Volvo was its reputation for safety. I thought that was pretty sensible coming from a 22-year-old guy. Unfortunately, he couldn't get a good loan rate on the Volvo so he passed on it.
AND WHERE IS THE WAGON???? Figures cancelled in NA just as I was about to buy my first VW.
I believe it has the doggish 2.5l engine from the Jetta and Golf, certainly an inferior engine for this class now.
I am just surprised they don't have the 2.0t in the mid level models. Huge mistake going straight to the V6. especially with gas prices now!
oh, they are using the US definition of "more". More room (bigger), but lower quality.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
How quickly the years desensitize us. :P
Sam
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Sam
See, I was all set to purchase a 2010 Jetta 2.5 6MT. All that had to be done was the test drive..but from the specs, that wouldn't be a problem, right? WRONG! The test drive had be driving back to the dealership asking them if they had any Jettas with the 2.0T (they didn't) or if they could give me a good deal on a GTI (they wouldn't on a 4 door, just a 2 door).
Then I went and test drove my car, a 2007 Accord 2.4 5MT. It had low miles and a great price. I said "No way..I just drove a 170HP Jetta and it was a dog, I don't want a 166HP Accord". Well..it was a night and day difference. The Accord with its "mass produced 4 cylinder" was much more fun to drive. It had much more get up and go, off the line, on the highway, whatever. It sounded a lot better, gets much better gas milage, etc. I was sold on Honda and I bought that car.
Specs don't tell the whole story. The heavier Honda with less power and cylinders is a quicker car with better gas milage and is more refined. VW has the 2.0T but refuses to put it in their Passat and will pay the price.
FWIW I am not a HP watcher so much as I look for torque output and the rev range that peak or close to peak is available. Torque is what you feel in the seat of your pants. HP is what triggers desire in the brain when you read comparison charts.
Glad to hear you both are so happy with your Accords. They are a great car, especially the older ones.
Sam
Looks great! First the Sonata, then the Optima and now this car. I am glad to see this segment is starting to revive a bit and produce some really sharp looking cars.
I'll just post the links to the images, they're on the large side.
http://i54.tinypic.com/2e6dg1w.jpg
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2011/04/2013-chevrolet-malibu-ltz-- - 010teaser2-1.jpg
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2011/04/malibu-infotainment.jpg
http://media.il.edmunds-media.com/chevrolet/malibu/2013/ns/2013_chevrolet_malibu- - _tlight_ns_33111_717.jpg
Then again, I can also see companies differentiating their product with an exceptionally good V6 once the turbos become more commonplace.
In any case it's certainly improved over the outgoing model which to my eye is only mediocre.
- new taillights
- Gold chevy badge on the front (heck, even Chrysler has the cool wings badge. Is the bow tie the best they can do?)
The Malibu is $12K more expensive.
17.5K, but that's normal market pricing, and fleets and major customers can always knock off at least $500 from that. If you get year-end deals, you can drop it to 16K quite easily.
Would you settle for $17K? :P It's still $10K less than the Malibu, so as you said, it had better be a much better car.
Who knows exactly what a given fleet manager will pay for a car? Who knows what the OP paid for the Malibu LTZ? I'll bet it wasn't $27k. That's why I stuck to MSRPs. YMMV.
Anyway, last time I checked it's April, not year-end.
Oh, I highly doubt Hertz pays MSRP for those. There are fleet programs under which rental companies purchase cars directly from the factory. Rental companies buy in bulk, they do receive discounts or they would not buy them when you they can buy a Ford, Chevy or Chrysler for THOUSANDS less.
Hertz and Enterprise are selling their rental Sonata's for about $18,000-$19,000 for the base GLS models with 20,000 miles on them. Whatta joke.
OK the above makes sense to me, but im on pain killers, so if it doesn't, sowwy.
Thanks for informing us that rental companies don't pay MSRP. What a revelation!
The rental used prices are no bigger joke than typical used car prices on dealers lots all over the country. They are just inflated asking prices. You're in the business, you know where the money is being made. Give $10k for a trade, price it at 16k on the used lot and then sell it for it $13-$14k. Lot nicer margin than new car sales.
I see 4cyl engines in mid-size sedans becoming a norm for the future. v6's are going to fade away. MPG and performance are going to be key in this market segment for the future. Ford with its eco-tech 4cyl engines are going to be found in many vehicles in the next 3 years.
Are you sure you didn't compare a Cruze LTZ to an Elantra? I sat in both at the last auto show and I have to say the Cruze LTZ had far better fit/finish than the Elantra GLS. Styling for the Cruze LTZ was also better in my opinion.
BLUE BOOK® TRADE-IN VALUE
2008 Toyota Highlander Sport Utility 4D
Condition Value
Excellent $23,600
Good $22,400
depreciation is under $600 a year! I have no plans to part with mine yet.
When one can buy a new one with an MSRP of $21,145 (including destination) and there are good deals to be had on the Sonatas now. Enterprise selling a year old Sonata GLS with 20,000 miles on it wholesale for $18,000-$19,000 is a joke.
As a dealer, say I do pay $19,000 for this car. With 20K, the tires will need to be replaced (as all rental cars have worn out tires), there will be reconditioning costs (no rental car is without signs of abuse). So, after I invest $1,000-$1,500 in the car, what can I expect to sell it for? My true cost on the car is over $20,000. You can get a new one for that, or less! So, yes, it is a joke.
2008 Toyota Highlander Sport Utility 4D
Condition Value
Excellent $23,600
Good $22,400
depreciation is under $600 a year! I have no plans to part with mine yet.
KBB is very misleading. Toyota's do hold their value very well, however all cars, even Toyota's take a 20% hit in the first year alone.
It's only a joke if they actually don't sell the car for anything close to $18-19k. But if they can get that price for it... that's good news for people buying a new Sonata today. For years, critics of Hyundai have talked about low resale values. Now that sale prices, and resale values, have come up, that's a problem too for some folks.
Prices of used cars in general have shot up the past couple of years, as the number of good used cars has dwindled (due to lower new car sales) and families with tight budgets look to stretch their car-buying dollars by buying used. So a 1-year-old Sonata for $18-19k asking price doesn't surprise me. I recently did an online search for used 2011 Sonatas within 500 miles of me, and the cheapest was $16.4k and that was for a stripped GLS with 30k miles--360 miles away. The cheapest with less than 20k miles was $17k. Many were much more than that. The used car market has changed. And Sonatas are better cars than they used to be and command higher prices than they used to bring.
It is good news for Enterprise, if they can actually get that price. Remember, they are selling wholesale, not retail. If a dealer was selling one for $18,000-$19,000 retail, that means there is mark-up in the car for profit. If a dealer buys an abused Sonata from Enterprise wholesale, the dealer is stupid because the dealer would have to ask what a new one goes for. That is why it's a joke.
A customer trying to trade a Sonata GLS to a dealer as ask $18,000-$19,000 for a trade value would get laughed at. It's the same thing.
I know used car prices have shot up. I buy cars for my dealership and prices are outrageous. It's a great time for auctions and wholesalers to sell cars used cars and a bad time for consumers to buy them considering the great deals and zero percent being offered on many new cars.
2008 Toyota Highlander Sport Utility 4D
Condition Value
Excellent $23,600
Good $22,400
That's all? Is that trade or retail? What was the new selling price? Last time I looked at Highlanders, they were selling around $38-44K, $2k more than a loaded Hyundai Veracruz. I just looked up the paperwork when I bought the Flex. I got $25,850 in trade on the Veracruz, I paid $36k for it with the tax.
2008 Toyota Highlander Sport Utility 4D
Condition Value
Excellent $23,600
Good $22,400
That's all? Is that trade or retail? What was the new selling price? Last time I looked at Highlanders, they were selling around $38-44K, $2k more than a loaded Hyundai Veracruz. I just looked up the paperwork when I bought the Flex. I got $25,850 in trade on the Veracruz, I paid $36k for it with the tax.
So you lost $10K in 2 years on Veracruz. My Base model AWD Highlander was $26K + tax in June of 2007, I stated that in my original post. I think KBBs $23600 is too low for this car, it should be at list $23700.... :mad:
I don't know what idiot would buy a used car for a price of the new one but for the seller it never hurts to ask high. I just checked my local auto trader listing and 2010 GLS asking price is $15,563.
sales ad
2011 GLS is $16,998
2011 Sonata
I found these ads after 10 sec of searching, I'm sure there are better deals on used Sonatas out there. Also these just dealer asking price, I'm sure there is a lot of room for negotiation there.
The truth is Hyundai still doesn't have high resale value even though their cars are much nicer then they used to be.
http://www.hertzcarsales.com/Search?Distance=100mi&PostalCode=94546&pageSize=10&- pageNumber=1&#!&Makes=Honda&Distance=100mi&PostalCode=94546&pageNumber=1&pageSiz- e=10&Models=Accord&Years=2010
858 Nissans
798 Toyotas
214 Mazdas
55 Mersedes
54 VWs
23 Infinities
22 Kias
19 Chevys
16 Hondas
15 Mercurys
8 GMC
6 BMWs
2 Fords
Note that Hertz does not buy any Chryslers or Dodges. Absolute majority of Hertz fleet are Nissan and Toyota - two largest Japanese companies - and Mazda (which does not sale at retail anyway). Also note large presence of Mercedes. Number of Detroit iron is simply negligible.
I did find eight 2011 GLSes for under $17k within 500 miles of me. Price range is $16,744-$16,997. Best deal is a stripped one with only 8,000 miles for $16,995, but it's 330 miles away. All the others are also stripped (based on photos that show plastic wheel covers) and range from 20k to 33k miles. Since these stripped GLSes listed for just over $20k when new and were likely purchased at some discount, that's around $2,000 depreciation on these cars. So about 6-10 cents per mile depreciation in the first year, which is the worst year for depreciation on new cars. And these are the lowest priced in a 500 mile radius.
And you think that is bad?
Sam
When the dealer is only offering them $13K(no joke) on that 2010 GLS, they'll gladly settle for low Blue Book.
Fact: if you work for a dealership and pay a penny over auction prices for a trade-in that's not exotic or rare, you'll get your butt fired immediately. They don't even pay close to low Blue Book for most of their their cars now.
I look at all the Chicago ads and the lowest prices shown for '11 Sonatas with auto trans are well over $19k. Altimas and Camrys have been consistently priced at about $1k lower. There may be some wiggle room on both. Honda dealers around here pretty much just show lease dollars so don't know what the price of the car is. I think your $17988 is probably for a stick model and, like I said, may be available once you get there. Some dealers don't include the shipping charge(stupid, I know) so you may have to add $800 or so to that price anyway.
http://autos.cleveland.com/used_cars/style/all/hyundai_sonata_2011
Here are the YTD fleet sales vs total sales through March 2011
Ranking is based on % of sales:
1. Ford 167,780 fleet/495,508 total = 33%
2. Chrysler 90,074 fleet/286,950 total = 31%
3. GM 140,165 fleet/592,546 total = 23%
4. Nissan 56,366 fleet/285,358 total = 20%
5. Toyota 53,748 fleet/433,924 total = 12%
Care to retract your statement?
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