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http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilters.html
Interestingly, most FRAM filters earn very poor scores. They called it "one of the worst out there".
However, they say nothing about the filter gasket.
-juice
The orange cheapie Fram filters sold at Wal Mart are built to satisfy a price point.
They will build whatever they are asked to.
-juice
Comon, the safety of a vehicle relies on competent people servicing it. A fuel injector could be screwed up just as easily as a fuel filter and the results would be disastrous. Ultimately hundreds of thousands of CR-Vs are on the road and will remain there without fires. Why? Because there isn't a design flaw, there is a mechanic competency problem.
My thoughts, exactly. But we're talking about a catastrophic failure that puts the driver and passengers at risk. Honda has to take some responsiblity along with the dealer.
re: theracoon - Thank you. My thoughts exactly, which is why I picked the fuel filter placement as an example.
But we're talking about a catastrophic failure that puts the driver and passengers at risk. Honda has to take some responsiblity along with the dealer.
Responsibility for what? It's not a failure. It's a human induced condition. Nothing on the vehicle is failing, it's all working as designed.
On Sears Hairdryer:
Do not use while sleeping.
On a bar of Dial soap:
Directions: Use like other soap.
On some Swann frozen dinners:
Serving suggestion: Defrost.
On a hotel provided shower cap in a box:
Fits one head.
On Tesco's Tiramisu dessert:
(printed on bottom of box) Do not turn upside down.
On Marks & Spencer Bread Pudding:
Product will be hot after heating.
On packaging for a Rowenta iron:
Do not iron clothes on body.
On Boot's Children's cough medicine:
Do not drive ar or operate machinery.
On Nytol sleep aid:
Warning: may cause drowsiness.
On Sainsbury's peanuts:
Warning: contains nuts.
On an American Airlines packet of nuts:
Instructions: open packet, eat nuts.
On a Swedish chainsaw:
Do not attempt to stop chain with your hands or genitals.
On a child's Superman costume:
Wearing of this garment does not enable you to fly.
I guess blaming vehicle design for a service tech's error is par for the course.
mikefm85
Yes, people do make mistakes and many of them could kill a person. Who's fault will it be? Must EVERYTHING be idiot proof or should we draw a line somewhere?
PLEASE CHECK TO MAKE SURE GASKET HAS BEEN REMOVED WITH FILTER. MAY CAUSE FIRE.
That would be a nice warning. Also, car makers and other do failure analysis studies all the time. Otherwise it would be impossible to build a car
Look at the huge air bag and rollover stickers they put on the inside of cars, though. Sabrina's suggestion seems to follow along those lines.
IMO Honda can be pro-active without necessarily taking blame for the fires. Then again in this litigous society people may use that against them. Sad state of affairs.
-juice
.
re:ateixeira
<Honda can be pro-active without necessarily taking blame for the fires. Then again in this litigous society people may use that against them. Sad state of affairs>
My thoughts exactly!!!!
Warning: Car designed unlike other vehicles. Oil filter is in a postion to create catastrophic condition if not replaced 100% correctly with no margin for human error under any condition. Honda Company carries no responsibilty for said catastaphic loss.
Upon placing key in igntion, driver hears this through speakers: Warning: Car designed unlike other vehicles. Oil filter is in a postion to create catastrophic condition if not replaced 100% correctly with no margin for human error under any condition. Since humans are never 100% error free, this Honda dealership carries no responsibilty for said catastaphic loss.
Finally if fire is detected the driver here's the following pre-recorded message: Fire Please exit the vehicle. As you leave please be aware that this car is designed unlike other vehicles. The oil filter is in a postion to create catastrophic condition if not replaced 100% correctly with no margin for human error under any condition. Honda Corp and your Honda dealership will not be held responsible for the catastrophic condition you are now experiencing. You insurance company carries no responsibilty for this catastaphic loss on or above the current Blue Book value of this vehicle less a variety of deductions. Premiums will of course be raised should a claim be filed. Now.... run like wind!
PS:
If that Sears hair dryer ever found a way to come on by itself and start blowing heated air on my unprotected sleeping skin, you bet I'd sue.
Perfect!!!! Exactly what I have been trying to say. Mind if I use that in front of the judge???
At first I was leary why he would sell a one year old vehicle but it was his wife's and she decided she wanted an Odessey instead. (purhased that 2 weeks ago) He owned the CRV free and clear and lived in a very nice area. I figured that was the reason he was flexible on the price. In my lengthy discussions with him I realized he was a "car" guy. Kept a 00' Trans Am underwraps just to work on. Firm believer in 3k oil changes. Oh yeah, it's blue with black interior. Looks new in and out.
regards,
kyfdx
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Checking to ensure the old gasket and any debris is removed from the mounting flange is standard operating procedure when replacing any oil filter.
"Warning: Car designed unlike other vehicles. Oil filter is in a postion to create catastrophic condition if not replaced 100% correctly with no margin for human error under any condition. Honda Company carries no responsibilty for said catastaphic loss."
Tell me which manufacturer allows for anything less than a 100% correct replacement of any part?
Probably because the OEM Bridgestone Dueler H/Ts aren't very good tires.
Is it a Hondacare warranty? That would cost way more than $75, or was that meant to be $750?
Maybe it's a $75 transfer fee?
Electrical lights have a Warning to Shut off electricity before installing. I presume electricians were taught that. But in this and the filter's case it would help DIY'er if you were never taught SOPS and would remind the others who weretaught SOPS.
Not any different than making sure the drain plug is tight.
Since you agree it is SOP to check the flange, then you agree it's the fault of the dealer/tech? If Honda were to print the words would you let them off the hook or would you then go chasing the supposed design flaw angle that someone else came up with?
I'm guessing over a million oil/filter changes have been done on the current gen CRV. The number of fires reported caused by this alleged issue numbers under 10. Not to dimish the fires, but it's a miniscule percentage. IMHO, it's a technician issue not a design issue.
The beauty of the internet, if you know how to search, finding a list of stupid warings takes no more than a minute. Cut and paste, voila.
sabrina
This is what is written on the side of EVERY Honda oil filter I've ever used. (In 4 languages.)
OIL GASKET SLIGHTLY
CLEAN SEATING AREA
SCREW UNTIL GASKET CONTACT
TORQUE TO 10-14Nm (1.0-1.4kgm)
OR 3/4 TURN WITH TOOL
START ENGINE AND CHECK FOR LEAKS
I'm sure Honda will use that in court.
Bottom line is this...I asked Honda for an answer when this happened bvecause the dealer said it wasn't them (that's what the owners manual says to do). If Honda had said to me in the beginning "this is not our fault because our investigation has shown....and therefore we believe the dealer is at fault and we are letting the dealer know the results of our investigation" then matters would have been settled - no postings to Edmunds (and never found the others). This has obviously escalated because Honda refuses to do anything.
As for languages I guess I could check to see if the tech understands any of them...(LOL). 4 languages aren't many, assuming one is Japanese.
Steve, Host
Steve, Host
Not identical but, fwiw, I've been changing oil filters on my Honda M'cycles for 17 yrs, (all of which use a mini version of the car filter With that rubber O ring). I have yet to find a displaced or sticking O ring on any the M'cycle filters when changed, and they generate some serious motor heat.
Strange situ; methinks incompetent "techs".
BR,md
and
Honda Odyssey: Prices Paid & Buying Experience
should have some recent comparison numbers.
Steve, Host
Thanks
Same here, but one time on my Accord it did stay, and I didn't check it. I'm glad it was my Accord and not my CRV. Since it sticks so infrequently it is VERY easy to forget to check it.
.
I'd also like to clarify one thing. I feel the mechanic/dealer bears the majority of fault. It is is SOP to check for a double gasket and he didn't do it.
I bet, that was mostly the fault of the owners, who had under-inflated tires. When I walk on parking lots I see so many cars with under-inflated tires and owners don't give a damn.
If you have an observant eye you ,probably, saw that too.
These tires (for me) are like crying : "Please, pump me up, #&@&...!".
Once on our parking lot I spotted Lexus 330 with right front tire nearly flat! Looks like owner drove like that during long period of time - that tire was worn on both sides. The next day I saw it again - same condition - nothing done. Then I wrote a note to the owner and stuck it under windshield wiper. Guess what, next day I passed by - no difference.
I wonder, how many people like that all across America? I think a lot. So ... American lawyers will always have a job.
Tire pressure monitoring systems should help motivate the folks who never look at their tires, hopefully.
Steve, Host
Sooner is better - the anxiety isn't sustained for so long and you just get over it! :-)
tidester, host
That dealer is in trouble. Honda's probably been quiet to avoid pointing the blame at them.
-juice
I agree on that, but I was talking about the cases when YOU SEE (you do not need manometer) that tire was under inflated, but not completely flat yet :-).
That was the case with that LEXUS.
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=30&article- - - _id=7941
http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosinsider/0403/22/autos-97446.htm
So far, our only lead with Sabrina's problem is the double oil gasket.
The rear tire looked a little soft, but maybe that was just the tire profile or maybe there was a rock under the tread (gravel parking lot). Or maybe it needed 15 pounds of pressure.
Now I'm eyeballing tires and it's all YOUR fault!
<g>
Steve, Host
When they published the article about Toyota's sludge problem, that was the beginning of the end of Toyota's resistance to cover that issue.
Here is that article, to get an idea of the type of background research they did:
http://www.autonews.com/article.cms?articleId=38302&a=a&b- t=sludge
Your case is very different, but still, I think they are the type of publication you want on your side.
-juice
With the PT, the vehicle had already been recalled once for a problem that might cause a fire. There's not much information, but I'm getting the impression that the NHTSA is deeper into this case than they are with the CR-V. Then there's the fact that people have been injured as a result of the PT fires. Not only does that make for good headlines, but it also suggests that the fires in the PT have been quick to go from smoke to flames.
-juice