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2008 Minivans
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http://www.carspyshots.net/zerothread?id=23692
The Dodge warranty does require a powertrain inspection every 5 years. That's really not a big deal, and I'm sure it's just to ensure that people have their transmission serviced and all the fluids serviced.
The 2nd row windows open, and I love that the seats can face out for the parent to fasten the kid's seatbelts.
Also glad to hear they're more comfortable than the current Stow-n-Go seats.
Sirius TV? Cool.
Mileage is using 2008 standards, but still 1 mpg city and highway behind the Sienna and Ody with VCM. They tie the Odyssey without VCM.
You know what's funny? We were one of those families.
Seriously, they flew out a couple of ladies from Detroit and they spent a day with us at our house, watching how we interacted.
I think by then the design was already set, but they probably used our input to decide how to market the feature.
We were paid a nice sum for our time. Thanks Chrysler! :shades:
We couldn't wait, though, and bought our van back in May.
interior features
I once owned a 1982 Ford E150 'full size' van which came from the factory 'stripped' and then "TripleE" put in a travel van conversion. This van had 4 caption chairs that swivel 360degrees, as well as folded perfectly horizontal (for sleeping), a portable table that fitted in the floor between a rear bench and the middle caption chairs (or between the 4 chairs). The rear bench could be folded down to make a queen size bed.
Chevrolet 'full size vans' had a similar conversion.
The 2008 Chrysler minivans are not the first to have the swivel feature.
I think if you check 'world' histories on the minivan you will find others that outdone Chrysler awhile ago.
Take, for instance, The Honda Odyssey that is produced in Japan and areas outside of NA. This smaller Odyssey has a wheelerchair edition that moves the driver's seat from inside to outside the van and at the same time moves a wheelchair from the inside rear to meet the driver's seat.
The rear bench in the 1999 Odyssey was the 1st NA minvan to offer the fold-in-the-floor.
1963 Austin Mini
1965 Morris 1100
1967 Plymouth Valiant 2-door sedan - large slant-6
1972 Datsun 510 automatic
1979 Mercury Zephyr 4-door sedan
1982 Customized 'TripleE' travel van (Ford E150 351 V8)
1987 Ford Mustang 6 {wife's car)
1992 Ford Taurus long-stroke (industructable) V6
2002 Honda Odyssey EX (currently 175,000 kilometers)
1965 Morris 1100
1967 Plymouth Valiant 2-door sedan - large slant-6
1972 Datsun 510 automatic
1979 Mercury Zephyr 4-door sedan
1982 Customized 'TripleE' travel van (Ford E150 351 V8)
1987 Ford Mustang 6 {wife's car)
1992 Ford Taurus long-stroke (industructable) V6
2002 Honda Odyssey EX (currently 175,000 kilometers)
Wow did you confuse me first thing this morning. I was wondering what "first" all these cars had to offer??? But you own all these???? OMG
I'm referring to mainstream firsts, not niche market, low volume products. I dated a guy who had same wheelchair feature built into his Winstar minivan - from London Ontario
I live in Guelph, Ontario
I noticed a couple of things, though.
He's a big guy and doesn't fit well in that swivel seat. His knees are way too high because the seat cushion is too close to the ground. So they made some compromises in comfort there.
Also, 3rd row power seats are very neat, but Toyota has that on the current Sienna, years ago actually, so that's not new.
Shouldn't matter - kids are usually in the 2nd row, and families are going to buy these up and fast.
We hit the car show. Took the kids with us. We all sat in every model we were considering at least twice.
It's pretty democratic that way. Eveyybody's comfortable, then green light to buy.
Sadly, the VERY comfortable Sienna driver's seat caused me to neglect a test ride in the OTHER seats of the Sienna. The front passenger seat and the 2nd row seats of my Sienna are NOT comfortable for me for a very long distance. Ironic, because the 2002 T&C LX driver's seat was NOT comfortable but ALL the other seats were very comfortable.
I can NOT ride very far as a passenger in my 2006 Sienna LE because of uncomfortable seats. My 2006 Sienna LE also lacks the 2002 T&C LX controlled ride on winding roads. :sick:
Have you sat in the front passenger seat or 2nd row bucket seats for 2 hours and 150 miles at one time?
I'll ask my friendly Toyota dealer if seats were redesigned for 2007 when I get the oil and oil filter changed.
I think it is remarkable that the 07 Sienna 3.5L has the same EPA fuel economy ratings when the 3.5L has so much more power than the 3.3L in the 06. :shades:
And it's really a joke when the use the example of a woman with a bunch of bags in each hand who "needs" the automatic folding feature. I don't think I've ever seen anyone coming out of Walmart or a grocery store with arms full. Everyone is just pushing a shopping cart to their car.
The Odyssey sliding door is very easy to open/close manually and much faster to use.
I usually drive, but the wife loves the seat, in fact she falls asleep more often than not. We own a beach condo and have been there 3 times in the van, so 6 trips, 3 hours each so far.
She drove half of one of those trips, so I was in the seat for a little over an hour. No complaints so far.
Any how, we are all shaped differently.
Example: people RAVE about how great the Lancer EVO seats are, well I can't even FIT in them to save my life! They offer great side support if you're narrow enough to squeeze inside them, I suppose!
I also ride in a 2001 Ody EX frequently. I feel ALL seats of the 01 Ody EX are THE MOST COMFORTABLE seats of any vehicle....and I sit in all vehicles at the Annual Auto Show.
Everyone else thinks all the Sienna seats are comfortable.
One way we got around the lack of captain's chairs on the 8 passenger model was to get boosters that had armrests. The booster even has built-in cup holders and a light on each side.
So there's an idea, if she'd fit.
Our daughter has LOVED the built in child seat in the passenger side Quad of her 99 GC SE and prefers it to ANY child seat or booster seat on the market. (Her 2 sisters don't like the GC/T&C built in child seats).
Built-in boosters are awesome, I wish more manufacturers offered them. Volvo has them on the V70, Subaru had them on the Outback but only for one single model year.
New Sienna LE pkg 2, $23,445
Used Sienna, 2006, 30k miles, LE pkg 1, $20,977-20,995.
New Dodge GC SXT, $22,045
Used GC, 2006, 30k miles, $14,837
So you save $1400 up front, that's good.
A year later, though, with the same mileage, you lose $6000 more. Ouch.
Net, you're losing about $4600 more buying the Dodge after just one year.
I realize this is dealer pricing, and perhaps your Sienna would only bring in $19k, but then a Dodge van would only bring in $13-14k.
It's a buyer's market for vans, is why.
In Canada a dealer sells only Toyota not both a Dodge & Toyota. The same goes for other manufacturers. Honda only sells Honda. Chrysler only sells Chrysler, Jeep, Dodge and any other Chrysler product. ETC. What's in their used section is a different story.
Fitzgerald Automall has several brands, but Honda isn't one of them.
Let's see, though, Koons Honda isn't far away, and they do no-haggle pricing on new Odys. They have several new EX models for $27,584 (including freight and fees).
They have one used 2006 Ody EX, 14k miles, for $24,995. That has very low miles, the Toyota and Dodge both had 30k miles, so it might be closer to $24k if it had similar miles to the others.
I used EX because they don't have any used LXs for sale.
Any how, this is just one example, but depreciation is well controlled, similar to Toyota's.
New Sienna LE pkg 2 (I looked at 2), and couldn't get it lower than $24K, but the lowest was 24100.
Used 2006 Sienna LE (not sure what pkg), 21k miles, $18200
New T&C Touring (what I bought), 22.5K
Used 2006 T&C Touring, 15K miles, 17,750
New Honda EXL (BIL bought), 32K
Used 2007 Honda EXL, 28k miles, $24,750
So, with these examples, the Chrysler held more value $ and %. Kind of goes against the majority on this one! I thought it was crazy, also.
http://www.fivestardealers.com/szott/Chrysler/en_us/website?adid=u&pid=u&daaXmlP- ath=&bid=&rid=u
I got a quote of $14391 out the door (MI 6% Sales tax included) for a 2007 T&C Base model with popular equipment group (MSRP ~$23.5k) from Rochester Hills CJ:
http://www.fivestardealers.com/rochesterhills/Chrysler/en_us/website?adid=u&pid=- u&daaXmlPath=&bid=&rid=u
My brother leased a 2006 T&C Touring through Livonia CJ:
http://www.fivestardealers.com/livonia/Chrysler/en_us/website?adid=u&pid=u&daaXm- lPath=&bid=&rid=u
I subscribe to the Sunday Oakland Press, but the Detroit News may be availible depending on exactly where you live in OH. I can try to scan an ad this weekend.
Look at those low prices!!!!
Wait a minute, I didn't see em!
Oh yeah, btw, I noticed the first dealer had a 06 used for $20500.
Used GC, 2006, 30k miles, $14,837
So you save $1400 up front, that's good.
A year later, though, with the same mileage, you lose $6000 more. Ouch.
Net, you're losing about $4600 more buying the Dodge after just one year.
I realize this is dealer pricing, and perhaps your Sienna would only bring in $19k, but then a Dodge van would only bring in $13-14k.
It's a buyer's market for vans, is why.
Your pretty close on the pricing and resale value. But with the Dodge GC SXT, you get the over head console, with temp. compass, fuel, garage door opener. You also get power side and rear doors. Features you can't get on the Sienna, unless you pay around $30,000 or more. If your going to keep your van for 4,5,or six years, resale won't enter the picture that much. But those extra features are really nice.
And with Dodge you trade that off for a lot less power and 2nd row windows that don't open, plus an older design that is about to be replaced.
neile457: useful additional data, but note that the Dodge had about half as many miles as the Honda. That's not really a fair comparison.
aaron_t: I did not use MSRP, I used the no-haggle street prices around me. Those include all discounts and rebates, and represent a real-world price in the Mid-Atlantic region.
I do agree with you, MSRP is meaningless.
The lesson here is that used vans can be a real bargain. Even 1 year old vans can be had in some regions for a lot less than new.
One big factor for me was the 2007 Sienna got a much more powerful engine that I wanted. So to me, a 2006 was worth less, 40 plus horsepower worth.
Same for the 08 Dodge, by the way, which is much improved. The interior looks too Caliber-ish to me, but I'll reserve final judgement until I can touch and feel it in person.
Looks like the answer is "YES".
http://news.windingroad.com/countriesmarkets/japan/japan-report-honda-stream-hea- ded-to-us-in-2009/
However, without sliding side doors, the vehicle is NOT a minivan but is a station wagon, tall station wagon, or to distort the situation even more, with AWD it is an SUV (thanks to Subaru's definition). :sick:
The Mazda5 and Rondo are the others.
Sliding doors or no, these are all similarly sized and priced, and will surely be cross-shopped.
Yet another entry will be the Dodge Journey:
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=122333
One word for the Dodge Journey: UGLY :sick:
It's based on the Stratus so it should be mid-sized, not full size. Vans are about 200-205" long while the Stratus is 191" long.
Plus, Stratus prices are a lot lower than Grand Caravan prices. The non-Grands will be gone, plus no more AWD.
However, without sliding side doors, the vehicle is NOT a minivan but is a station wagon, tall station wagon, or to distort the situation even more, with AWD it is an SUV (thanks to Subaru's definition).
Does that also mean that the first Honda Odyssey wasn't a minivan because it had no sliding doors?
What about the Mitsubishi Expo, and Colt Vista? Would you say that the Expo LRV, which was shorter than the Expo but had sliding doors was a minivan?
Clearly not all vehicles fit neatly into categories. And the definition of "minivan" has changed over time as the minivans have gotten larger and larger.
I like to use the term "microvan" or compact MPV for these smaller, tall, long wagon type of vehicles - with or without sliding doors and with or without 3rd seat options.
I'd say they can be safely distinguished from SUVs (even small SUVs like the Forester) due to lower ground clearance and hence greater interior space utilization.
I do like the idea of getting rid of the non-Grand Caravans and coming in with a microvan in it's place. But from looking at the Journey, they clearly don't want to build anything that could possibly have "van" associated with it. "Crossover" is the where they feel the market is.
The Japanese Odyssey has 4 doors that do not slide.
The NA Odyssey in 1999-2004 was sold in Japan as 'La Great' and looks the same as the NA one did did.
If you use you logic the Mazda9, I believe is considered by the industry as a mini-van although I would say it proably fits as a mico-mini-van, about the same size as the Stream.