If I am not mistaken, sabrina (?) reported some time ago that his/her burned car was inspected for double gasket and no double gasket was found. I, personally, was very doubtful about filter/ gasket thing from the start of these mysterious fires for 2 reasons: 1. I did oil/filter change myself on CR-V 03 many times ( I do changes every 5K) and at no times my gasket stuck to the plate. If you check filter design carefully you would notice that this Honda gasket is not just an "O - ring" - the cross section shape is more complicated - and it is not easy to separate gasket from the filter even with a small screwdriver - it is deep seated. 2. Other Honda's (like Accord) got the same engine but no fires were reported. Why? The only reasonable explanation (which I also doubt ) is that the double gasket problem may occur during the FIRST oil change - if gasket stuck to the plate for some reason ( factory paint?). Obviously this would be a mechanic fault. It would be interesting to duplicate the problem: Say, take a piece of junk-yard manifold, heat it to the temp of the CR-V manifold (?). Spray hot oil on it. Blow the air on them to duplicate the oxygen flow. Would it ignite? ( Potential job for the "Myth busters" ).
The investigator removed the filter and reports that there did not appear to be any failure connected to the oil filter -no oil leaks, etc. Honda has never refuted the report - they just ingnored it
Not only do I want to know WHAT Honda thinks the answer is, but I also want to know HOW they actually came to the conclusion. Although they probably looked at the car, as in a visual, they never did any further investigation, at least that we know of since the ins company has the car still wrapped up and Honda never asked to look at it.
The speculated changes ranged from an alteration of the headlights and grill, to the increase in wheel size to 16", to interior changes of steering wheel stereo controls, standard curtain airbags on all models, and I believe there was something about enhancing the AWD system, but don't remember specifically. Of course, like was said, all is speculation and could end up being nothing more than a set of color coordinating Honda fuzzy dice for the rearview mirror as the '05 year updates. I'm hoping for all of the above and then some and will be holding out to see what the '05 models bring.
If the CR-V is "due" for the mid-cycle updates in 2005, then most of the rumous may come true. They usually do more than just add new paint colors and change the style of the rims when they do the model refresh.
If they end up adding ABS and side curtain airbags to all models, it will make the LX look more attractive. If you can live without the moonroof, you could add keyless enytry, buy aftermarket rims and stereo and have most of what the EX has for less. You would no longer be forced to get an EX just to have ABS brakes. On the other hand, it will raise the price closer to the EX and some people will say, "for a little more, I could just get the EX." So that could make the EX look more attractive for others.
These are just rumors, but they come from a very good source. More importantly, they make sense given Honda's announcements regarding increases in standard safety content. Recently added rumors include new colors.
Yeah, with all the speculated changes, I was curious about just how much this would add to the bottom line on the sticker. Seems like alot of additions, hence alot of increase in price...I don't know. I guess I'll just have to keep a close eye on things when the 05's start rolling in and nab up an '04 if the increase is too steep for my wallet at that point. Wish the time was now, as our local Honda place just got a boatload of CR-V's in, along with 5 or 6 used ones sitting on the lot. I really wanted a Pilot, but finances are not looking good for that particular want. My inlaws are picking up one of those tomorrow...grrrrr LOL
307web - True. When the Element was introduced, I pictured Honda moving the CR-V a bit more upscale. Vehicles like the Forester, Escape, and RAV4 have price tags and trim lines that span a range of 8-10K dollars. The CR-V has a comparatively narrow range.
One of the rumors was that they will add the EX-L (with leather) model in the US next year. It is already offered in Canada this year. With that and the new front end styling for 2005, it could look like a mini Pilot.
I was wondering that exact thing when I read that there may be headlight and grill changes on the way, if they were possibly going to make the grill resemble the Pilot's grill?
Just sitting here watching the local news and they had the manager of Huey's Honda in St. Louis on saying that their entire stock of vehicles have hail damage after today's storms here. Those who don't mind a few little dents and are in the general area will probably be able to get some decent deals.
Guys, I am planning to only perform what Honda has given in the manual for 30K service. One Honda dealers in our area also wants to change transmission fluid. Another also recommended changing the spark plugs, distributor cap and rotor. Is this even remotely necessary? The only reason the dealer said what that they customize it for the local area( or to make more $$?) I am in New Jersey area.. thanks
Try to stay with the owner's manual as much as possible. Use the "severe" schedule if it makes you feel better.
The first "red flag" I see is that they want to change the plugs. The '02 CR-V should be equipped with iridium or platinum plugs that shouldn't need to be replaced this early....
It certainly has been awhile since I have been on this board. Probably becasue my CRV has been running just fine over the last few years.
In the last few months, my AWD 2000 EX CRV has been giving me a groan eminating from the rear area. It only does this when I am pulling into a parking spot or making similar sharp turns at low speeds. It does not always occur even in these circumstances. My CRV has 55K miles on it. I looked around underneath the CRV to see if it had any grease points, or if the rear differential had a plug to drain and fill through. I found neither. Any opinions?
I had a similar problem with mine and it drove me nuts for weeks. It turned out that the differential fluid needed to be replaced even though my CR-V had not reached the service interval for it. This has come up a couple of times in this forum and is considered to be a common problem. The good news is that it's easy and cheap to replace the fluid. Hope this helps.
Thanks for the link varmit. Would you happen to have another that could walk me through the process of changing the fluid? I am fairly handy with the wrench, and I have a 3 day weekend...
I wonder what part of 'rear-differential' is producing this sound and why? Is fluid is not lubricating anymore/loosing viscosity? I read varmint's description on how the damn thing works. Now what's wrong? Why so early? To much tight turns? Slightly different tires? Any theories on that?
Your write-up on the rear-diff change is very concise. I commend you. Just to give you and others a heads-up, Sears has a long plastic hose attached to a pump which fits pints and quart bottles. Cost was around 3.50 it sure made it easy for me.
I am new on this link , normally I am on the Toyota side. But today I help a friend in dealing to buy a new 2004 EX CRV , after the usually couple of hours of negotiations and the warm air thru the ears..... The sticker price is $23,040.oo The price we are finally paying is $20,900.oo plus the suspicious $499.oo for dealer prep and of course tax. I am printing this prices , to see if we got a decent deal or not . All comments are welcome . Thank you. Lou
Adding the $499 to the $20,900 equals $21,399 (doesn't matter how they break it down... just the bottom line). I think invoice is $21,320. Under $100 over invoice sounds like a fair deal.
The letter is a little difficult to understand, but it looks from me that as of February 19, 2004 there were 22 Fires. It also appears there were 167 warranty claims relating to this defect. Maybe someone else can help decipher
Does antone have a suggested wheel cleaner for the ex wheels? need to clen mine before getting new tires. any suggestions for new tires?? think i will stay with standard size thanks for any help Mark
BTW, like inkie, I suggest getting a hand pump for gear oil changes. You can pump oil upward, it makes for less spills. Just do it on a warm day because in the cold gear oil is thick and hard to pump.
Also, inspect the drain bolt because usually they are magnetic and any metal shavings would stick to it. At least clean it before you replace it.
sabrina: I got an error on the bottom of that page...?
Apparently, this page brings you to the defects investigation page not to the letter itself
Anyway, go to NHTSA.gov then "service bulletins database then Defects investigation then when it asks for number type in PE04018 Then go to "View documents"
They basically blame "service errors", which is what most people here seemed to think. They did identify 22 fires, wow. 27 consumer complaints and 25 dealer reports related to this issue.
Interestingly, while they found a few double-stacked gaskets, there were actually more cases where a single gasket was pinched. That points to the oil filter itself being at least succeptible to failure, IMHO.
Interesting and pretty much what we expected, the fires were caused by oil spilling on the manifold due to improperly installed oil filter. Me thinks, the lawyers will have a field day with this.
" ..Interestingly, while they found a few double-stacked gaskets, there were actually more cases where a single gasket was pinched. ... ". Good catch! How they were able to find that? 'Honda filter' is not easy to 'get pinched' - the gasket is sitting very low ( actually too low - I feel, while screwing in the filter BY HAND, that I am reaching the limit - filter metal body nearly touch the surface). And mechanic must oil the gasket before installation so it will slide... . In any case, there is a rule, which printed in EVERY car MANUAL, like 'after changing oil/filter do a test drive and make sure there are NO OIL LEAKS at filter gasket and oil plug. This rule applies to ANY CAR not only to CR-V. Why only CR-V's are on fire? Why after the first o/c? Why not other cars with similar engine? We need assistance of Mr. Sherlok Holmes here :-).
My 02 EX in service date is 2 1/2 years old, and I have 9000 miles on it.
I developed a rear brake whine recently after the brakes heated up. My dealer diagnosed the cause as corrosion on the rear calipers. He told me he would "allow" warranty repair. When I asked him to explain, he said I had not had the dealer 20,000 mile/24 mo. preventative maintenance performed, which includes "service" of the calipers.
I had not had this maintenence done because of my low milage. He emphasized "but it also states and/or 2 years". He made me feel like he was doing me a big favor. I decided not to press the issue.
My question is can a dealer void a Honda factory warranty because the customer does not strictly follow the dealer prepared "booklet", which states "this booket was prepared to assist you in knowing when to return your vehicle for periodic preventative maintenance".
You need to follow the maintenance guide published in the owner's manual. The service listed in that manual need not be performed at the dealer as long as you can prove that you did have the service performed somewhere.
If the dealer has provided you with something of their own writing, it has nothing to do with the warranty.
Atexieira, when you say 22 fires,27 consumer complaints and 25 dealer reports, do you think that means 79 different issues. And what about the 167 warranty claims? Still confused as to exactly how many cars this is. The best part is I read alot of the materials attached. Good to know I wasn't the only one treated like a criminal.
Also, my car had neither a pinched gasket nor a double gasket - I still believe my car does not fall under these.
I think they can require that you follow the service schedule within reason. By that I mean 2 years does not mean exactly 730 days. Your mileage is so low that IMO you were due but not really overdue.
Any how, they are covering it, so I guess don't complain.
Sabrina: don't know if those overlap or not. 22 fires is a lot, though. I imagine some of the other cases were just leaks that were noted and corrected before a fire occured.
I may be poking my head in here from time to time, as our daughter just traded her ailing, white '92 Prelude Si in on a spunky, black CRV EX yesterday.
Those who know me here on Edmunds know I'm a Subaru guy (like juice), and I was hoping she would get one of those. She was willing to "settle" for a Subaru, but was "in love" with the CRV., and I firmly believe if you're going to live for a vehicle for 5+ years, you had better love it, and not just settle for it. In any event, if she didn't get a Subie, a Honda would be my next choice. The CRV does have some very desirable features, I have to grudgingly admit.
Comments
Every mechanic is taught early in their career through good old common sense that sometimes the old gasket will stick to the mounting plate.
A. The mounting plate is supposted to be wiped off before installing the new filter. If this is done, the old gasket will be noticed and removed.
B. The mechanic should LOOK at the filter he/she just removed to insure the gasket is still there.
Still, it's an easy mistake to make. Done it myself one time.
I, personally, was very doubtful about filter/ gasket thing from the start of these mysterious fires for 2 reasons:
1. I did oil/filter change myself on CR-V 03 many times ( I do changes every 5K) and at no times my gasket stuck to the plate. If you check filter design carefully you would notice that this Honda gasket is not just an "O - ring" - the cross section shape is more complicated - and it is not easy to separate gasket from the filter even with a small screwdriver - it is deep seated.
2. Other Honda's (like Accord) got the same engine but no fires were reported. Why?
The only reasonable explanation (which I also doubt ) is that the double gasket problem may occur during the FIRST oil change - if gasket stuck to the plate for some reason ( factory paint?). Obviously this would be a mechanic fault.
It would be interesting to duplicate the problem: Say, take a piece of junk-yard manifold, heat it to the temp of the CR-V manifold (?). Spray hot oil on it. Blow the air on them to duplicate the oxygen flow.
Would it ignite? ( Potential job for the "Myth busters" ).
Not only do I want to know WHAT Honda thinks the answer is, but I also want to know HOW they actually came to the conclusion. Although they probably looked at the car, as in a visual, they never did any further investigation, at least that we know of since the ins company has the car still wrapped up and Honda never asked to look at it.
make some changes to the CRV. Does anyone know
what they may be?
thanks
If they end up adding ABS and side curtain airbags to all models, it will make the LX look more attractive. If you can live without the moonroof, you could add keyless enytry, buy aftermarket rims and stereo and have most of what the EX has for less.
You would no longer be forced to get an EX just to have ABS brakes.
On the other hand, it will raise the price closer to the EX and some people will say, "for a little more, I could just get the EX." So that could make the EX look more attractive for others.
varmint Apr 29, 2004 10:25am
These are just rumors, but they come from a very good source. More importantly, they make sense given Honda's announcements regarding increases in standard safety content. Recently added rumors include new colors.
Silver moss
Redondo Red
Sahara Sand
Pewter Pearl
Sabrina: good luck in June, keep us posted?
David: sweet, I did the exact same thing with my Forester. In fact I also went from 205/70R16 to 225/60R16, small world eh?
Noticed the same improvements you have. Mostly, you can get better tires! H-rated, better traction and longer tread life.
-juice
With that and the new front end styling for 2005, it could look like a mini Pilot.
I am planning to only perform what Honda has given in the manual for 30K service.
One Honda dealers in our area also wants to change transmission fluid. Another also recommended changing the spark plugs, distributor cap and rotor.
Is this even remotely necessary?
The only reason the dealer said what that they customize it for the local area( or to make more $$?) I am in New Jersey area..
thanks
The first "red flag" I see is that they want to change the plugs. The '02 CR-V should be equipped with iridium or platinum plugs that shouldn't need to be replaced this early....
Steve, Host
In the last few months, my AWD 2000 EX CRV has been giving me a groan eminating from the rear area. It only does this when I am pulling into a parking spot or making similar sharp turns at low speeds. It does not always occur even in these circumstances.
My CRV has 55K miles on it.
I looked around underneath the CRV to see if it had any grease points, or if the rear differential had a plug to drain and fill through. I found neither.
Any opinions?
varmint "Honda CR-V Owners: FAQ" Nov 22, 2003 1:10pm
Bruce
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Thanks again.
http://users.ev1.net/~aurelio/crv/rear-diff-fluid
Let me know if this helps!
Slugline - Where would they be without us old-school CR-Vers? ;-b
Varmint: excellent FAQ page link,too.
Thanks and BR,md
The sticker price is $23,040.oo
The price we are finally paying is $20,900.oo plus the suspicious $499.oo for dealer prep and of course tax.
I am printing this prices , to see if we got a decent deal or not .
All comments are welcome .
Thank you.
Lou
regards,
kyfdx
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http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/defect/results.cfm
The letter is a little difficult to understand, but it looks from me that as of February 19, 2004 there were 22 Fires. It also appears there were 167 warranty claims relating to this defect. Maybe someone else can help decipher
BTW, like inkie, I suggest getting a hand pump for gear oil changes. You can pump oil upward, it makes for less spills. Just do it on a warm day because in the cold gear oil is thick and hard to pump.
Also, inspect the drain bolt because usually they are magnetic and any metal shavings would stick to it. At least clean it before you replace it.
sabrina: I got an error on the bottom of that page...?
-juice
Anyway, go to NHTSA.gov
then "service bulletins database
then
Defects investigation
then when it asks for number type in PE04018
Then go to "View documents"
sorry
Found it this time.
They basically blame "service errors", which is what most people here seemed to think. They did identify 22 fires, wow. 27 consumer complaints and 25 dealer reports related to this issue.
Interestingly, while they found a few double-stacked gaskets, there were actually more cases where a single gasket was pinched. That points to the oil filter itself being at least succeptible to failure, IMHO.
-juice
'Honda filter' is not easy to 'get pinched' - the gasket is sitting very low ( actually too low - I feel, while screwing in the filter BY HAND, that I
am reaching the limit - filter metal body nearly touch the surface). And mechanic must oil the gasket before installation so it will slide... .
In any case, there is a rule, which printed in EVERY car MANUAL, like 'after changing oil/filter do a test drive and make sure there are NO OIL LEAKS at filter gasket and oil plug. This rule applies to ANY CAR not only to CR-V. Why only CR-V's are on fire? Why after the first o/c? Why not other cars with similar engine? We need assistance of Mr. Sherlok Holmes here :-).
"When you eliminate all other possibilities,
what remains, no matter how improbable, is the answer." - Sherlock Holmes
:-)
tidester, host
-juice
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I developed a rear brake whine recently after the brakes heated up. My dealer diagnosed the cause as corrosion on the rear calipers. He told me he would "allow" warranty repair. When I asked him to explain, he said I had not had the dealer 20,000 mile/24 mo. preventative maintenance performed, which includes "service" of the calipers.
I had not had this maintenence done because of my low milage. He emphasized "but it also states and/or 2 years". He made me feel like he was doing me a big favor. I decided not to press the issue.
My question is can a dealer void a Honda factory warranty because the customer does not strictly follow the dealer prepared "booklet", which states "this booket was prepared to assist you in knowing when to return your vehicle for periodic preventative maintenance".
Spray caliper couple of times with Brake Cleaner or what?
If the dealer has provided you with something of their own writing, it has nothing to do with the warranty.
Also, my car had neither a pinched gasket nor a double gasket - I still believe my car does not fall under these.
Any how, they are covering it, so I guess don't complain.
Sabrina: don't know if those overlap or not. 22 fires is a lot, though. I imagine some of the other cases were just leaks that were noted and corrected before a fire occured.
-juice
Those who know me here on Edmunds know I'm a Subaru guy (like juice), and I was hoping she would get one of those. She was willing to "settle" for a Subaru, but was "in love" with the CRV., and I firmly believe if you're going to live for a vehicle for 5+ years, you had better love it, and not just settle for it. In any event, if she didn't get a Subie, a Honda would be my next choice. The CRV does have some very desirable features, I have to grudgingly admit.
Bob