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Comments
-juice
Whats the gearing like between the two? Is it the same (CRV, Forester, manuals)? I thought the CRV, manual tranny, had a higher final gear ratio. And whats the split on the AWD for the Sub? Is it 50/50 (front/rear)?
Les
Les: CR-V is geared shorter, 4.7:1, something like that. Forester's final drive is 4.1:1 but then you have to account for individual gears and tire sizes. AWD is 50/50 split by default.
As for the Highlander, it's a bit bigger (seating for 7 now, even) and can carry an 1105-1500 lb payload, vs. 850 for the CR-V. For 2005 Toyota gave the 2.4l a power boost (along with better fuel economy) and added that 3rd row option.
It's hyper competitive now so everyone is making improvements.
-juice
Also, still improving, but my MT gets 22/28 so far. Depends on the driver, tire psi, etc.
If it's warm and sunny I'll take the Miata, but for bad weather and light trails the Forester is perfect. It's also more fun than the Legacy, IMO.
I'd buy another in a second, maybe even that ultra-quick turbo. Though you don't *need* that kind of performance and the more-than-adequate base engine is very fuel efficient - 23/30 MT5, 22/28 auto, both on regular octane.
Try a Baja turbo, quickest pickup this side of a V10 Ram R/T. But IMO there are better Subies. Baja is cramped inside and the bed is also small.
Or wait for the Honda SUT. They'll use the 3.5l V6 and it's supposed to have the most towing and payload of any Honda to date.
I'd shop the Forester and the CR-V. It's a little smaller/sportier, and comes with equipment like heated seats and mirrors that Honda doesn't offer in the US. If you live in the snow belt you'll appreciate the extras Subaru offers.
-juice
Despite what some say about not a true AWD, the CRV does just fine on our back roads in all conditions. ... In a geography where 4 WD is a real plus demand for the CRV is strong." gerry100
I agree with gerry100 and varmint on the value of the RT 4WD - especially in the snow belt states. The ground clearance and the RT4WD were a real plus for me this past winter. I didn't have too much of a hassle with my previous Honda, but the ground clearance has helped a lot on side roads on my commute to work in the early snowy mornings.
Take a look at any of the permanent AWD small SUVs and compare their mileage with the same vehicle sans AWD. Then do the same with the reactive designs, like RT4WD and the systems in the Escape and VUE. The reactive designs (according to the EPA umbers) have a lesser negative impact on fuel economy.
If you are looking to explain the Forester's good gas mileage, check the curb weight. Last I checked, it was something like 200-300 lbs lower than the CR-V (depending on the model). The non AWD CR-V gets about 28 mpg, a boost of 2, by removing about 110 lbs. I don't think it's a stretch to say that the Forester's smaller size and lower weight are responsible for the mpg numbers, not the AWD system.
As for the gearing, the CR-V 5 speed is geared remarkably low. The Forester is not. That's why the CR-V is routinely clocked 0-60mph in the mid 8 second range and the 5 speed Forester is not.
Back when Subaru did sell FWD models, they were only 1-2 mpg worse than the AWD equivalents, about the same as for Honda's RT4WD.
More on topic, the Highlander being discussed above now gets 21/25 with automatic and permanent AWD, while the FWD model gets 22/27. 1-2 mpg penalty, similar to RT4WD.
The benchmark 0-60 for the Forester is 8.8 seconds so it's actually in the same ball park.
Unless we're talking about the turbo which is in a league by itself at 5.3 seconds, ahead of really slow cars like the S2000, Cayenne S, GTO, and Magnum Hemi. ;-)
-juice
The average 0-60 is about 8.5 seconds.
The Forester XT (turbo) gets something like 19 in the EPA city cycle. I think the 2 ton MDX gets the same numbers. Obviously, a completely different animal.
The bottom line is I just don't see how permanent AWD is costing you much in fuel economy, maybe 1 or 2 mpg, that's it.
-juice
Thanks for any replies,
Dan
Thanks for the reply,
Dan
A few options I've found on tirerack.com are:
Avid Touring
215/65-15
215/70-15
205/75-15
Avid S/T
225/70-15
Would any of these tires work on my stock wheels? Any recommendations?
So the 215/65 might be best, wider and actually not quite as tall, but close.
215/70 or 225/70 are wider but raise the center of gravity. Steering will feel slightly more numb.
205/75 is worse all around. No wider and taller sidewall. This is a truck tire size.
Go with the 215/65 or consider a Plus One with new rims. Maybe even lightly used rims off an Element or another Honda.
-juice
Also heard good things about the Avid - T4 - I believe is the one.
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thanks!
http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosconsumer/0406/23/g01-192049.htm
It might be best to wait until the 2005 model are available. They are rumored to use a 16" rim and appropriate tires. If you can wait for those, they might be the "safest" solution.
Varmint
2004 Honda SUV Olympics
Look into that, though. If it's outside of Honda's tolerances I'd consider getting a set of 5 tires.
Remember, Japanese makes generally have very tight tolerances, there's not a lot of "slop" built in.
-juice
I found that Discounttire.com has the tires for like $89 dollars but discounttiredirect had them for $57. Same company but one delivers them like tirerack. The guy at the Discount Tire retail store said he would match the $57 price so for 4 tires, installed, out the door... $308.00. Sounds like a pretty good deal to me.
Discount Tire Direct quoted the same 3% variance, but they did allow for the 225/60R16 tires.
My spare was a stock size 205/70R15, the diameter is actually 0.3" off, just outside of Subaru's specs. However, it's the spare, and once you account for wear that brings it to within the 0.25" tolerance.
I also keep the spare's pressure a bit higher, to be safe. I've never actually needed to use it.
-juice
I'm sure if the specs are close as mentioned above there will be no issues but why worry about it? We're not talking $150 per tire. For $50-$80 you get piece of mind. You don't have to worry about getting that flat fixed immediately, just pop on the spare. And you can also include the spare in your rotation. 20% extra use of all the tires probably makes that $ spent on the extra tire moot.
My $0.02.
Also, I wouldn't depend on the Dexron III compatibility too much. In my owner's manual, it says you can use Dexron III as a temporary replacement, but then replace it with Honda ATF as soon as possible. I am interpreting that to mean that using Dexron III is better than using nothing, but I don't read that as an endorsement of any sort.
Tell me, are they overdoing this? So now I have to appear in front of a jury for 1800 dollars. Take off another day of work. This is costing them way more than 1800 dollars.
The good news (?) is these fire are still occuring, and now on 04's, so the evidence is still mounting. In fact, since my case, I have gotten 6 emails of similar fires, 3 have been on 04's. So the problem is not solved in any way.
Anybody comntemlating an 04 CRV should understand 2 things: The fires are STILL occurring and HOnda is still not taking liability for any. I am really mad now
Thanks for the reply,
Dan
Magistrate awards me double damages because of flagrant abuse of law...
One might naively expect there are no grounds for appeal.
tidester, host
Thanks
They're probably appealing so they don't have to admit fault. This is about much, much more than the $1800. It's about engine fires that are potentially life-threatening.
I bet in the end they end up issuing an NHTSA-mandated recall to install some sort of heat shield to keep oil off the hot spots and prevent those fires in case of faulty oil filter installation, or perhaps re-route some of the wiring, which is actually pretty common.
Thing is, even a $20 heat shield, maybe $100 installed with labor costs included, add up to a lot when you consider how many have sold since the 2002 intro. What, probably 300,000 CR-Vs? So we're talking about 3 million dollars, ballpark guesstimate.
More than that, they'd have to pay off the 25 owners that have already had engine fires.
-juice
HP is stated at 210, but on the dyno they easily beat the WRX, so it's more like 240hp. Several dynos have shown these. Torque at the crank is actually in the 265 lb-ft range. Performance is not only unmatched, noone comes even close, period. You'll blow away Porsche Cayenne Ss.
You also get heated seats, heated mirrors (good for snow or rain to keep them clear), front windshield wiper de-icers, rear windshield wiper de-icers, 16" rims, a 67% longer powertrain warranty, and 3 years free roadside assistance.
Actually, if you hurry, I'm not even sure the CR-V will carry a price advantage. Fitzmall.com has a 2004 5-speed for $21,802, they're in MD near the nation's capital. And auto is going for as little as $22,092.
That's probably because the 2005 are beginning to arrive. Of course the 2005s get slightly better gas mileage but they'll cost more right now.
Moonroof comes in a premium package with leather, so you can't equip it identically to the CR-V. The moonroof itself is massive, perhaps you've seen one but it seems about 3 times as big as Honda's. With the premium package expect to pay just under $24k.
If the budget is tight the CR-V is a good choice as well. Good luck shopping.
-juice
5 million dollar recall? Priceless.
Just as we can get by for a short period with ordinary water in our radiators, or a compact spare on one of the wheels, you can get by with Dexron III in your tranny or rear-diff. But Honda doesn't want us to run the car like this all the time.
The fact they are apealing when they should have had their act together in court just further shows their cover up. Tell me, in any way do all these NHSTA cases come up in trial. You may want to tell Honda you are no entertaining offers to speak with local TV stations about your situation. Tel them the station is investigating the fires. Perhaps they will then do the right thing and settle. I bet a month or so later a newly designed oil filter appears too! Just proves Honda is no better than any of the other automakers...a bunch of dogs!
Thanks for your reply,
Dan
The real question is this. I know they stopped selling the old filter at retail about september but when did they start putting the new filter on cars at the factory? Must have been well before september.
Me thinks they protest too much....Especially now
Sabrina: go in anonymously and buy a filter from a different dealer, then compare the part numbers.
Watch, 3 months from now there will be a TSB or perhaps even a recall of some sort to retrofit a heat shield or something similar. I'm not a betting man but the smart money is on Sabrina.
-juice
Ironically Hyundai has just admitted that their Airbags do not function properly in one of their cars if you do not weigh enough. They have no real solution for the problem either. At least they are not trying to cover it up.
Once someone is dead I am sure it will be a whole new ball game. Of course by then Honda's rep will be damaged, they will be out big $$$$ and most importantly someone will have died for nothing.