Honda can't say they didn't know about the problem...
Thx for feedback. My car did not have double gasket according to insurance co investigation and Honda never mentioned it in court so since they did an "investigation" I presume it is not an issue. They did allege the filter was not changed properly but never said why - no dbl gasket, no pinched filter and unlike others car went for 500 miles before the fire with no oil leakage. This is mystifying. They could easily give me money and admit nothing (which I offered). They have easily spent way more than what they would have paid me - you can't say I have a frivilous case. And I tried to settle seversal times. I have at least 5 registered letters. Insurance company never got responses either. It is a pain...If they are going to defend themselves in court, why wouldn't they just send me and my ins co the same info they are presenting in court...BEFORE we went to court
Outside of simply not screwing the filter on tight enough, I can't think of any other type of "installation error". But then if you drove 500 miles before the fire, the filter must have been on tight. How else can a filter be changed improperly? . In the infamous words of Bill Gates as he spoke to some High School students, "Life isn't fair, get used to it.". Keep your head up Sabrina and keep fighting, we're with you and keep us informed as your case progresses.
We have no idea what wars Honda is battling on other fronts. Perhaps they are holding Sabrina off while they deal with more serious fire claims. North America isn't the only place the CR-V is sold. Ya just never know.
I change oil/filter on my EX-04 myself every 5K (my EX got 27K now). I bought all filters from Honda dealership. They looked the same to me and got the same Honda number (I5400-PLM- A02) but were made by different manufactures: Filtech, Hannywell, Fram. Normally after o/change I toss filters away. After these fires were reported and claims that filters are to blame, I stopped tossing filters. I examined them and noticed that depending on the brand they have 8 or 10 holes and holes got diff shape (round or oval), rubber Gaskets are slightly different. In other words "All Honda's filters are created NOT equal" - Hopefully they are equally reliable and efficient.
I know this Forum is currently discussing the CR-V oil filter / fire problems and I for one am watching this like a hawk....... as I just purchased a new '04 EX three days ago !! Just to break away and enlighten us a bit more about the CR-V's built for OTHER parts of the world, go to the Honda U.K. website and check out their CR-V PREMIER !! Here is the link, just click on the icon (picture) of the CR-V Premier on the upper right once you get there !!
www.honda.co.uk --------------- Here's a list of features......(NAVI, DVD, etc.)
Cosmic Grey Pearl metalic paint Fog Lights DVD Rear Entertainment System Soft Front Grille Guard Cordless infra-red headphones Aluminium Skid Plate Centre armrest Chrome Side Pipes Titanium interior Chrome Exhaust Finisher Satellite Navigation Tailgate Spoiler Privacy Glass
Hi, I am STILL waiting for my 2004 Honda CR-V EX to arrive at the dealer (which I am definitely annoyed about!) but I called today to get the VIN# for my insurance information, and they told me to make sure I mentioned certain features, including a passive alarm.
My question is... what exactly is a passive alarm? How does it work on the CR-V? I'm just wondering because I had considered adding an alarm on the CRV and had decided against it (at least for now). However, I'm wondering if a passive alarm was what I was wanting all along, and it's included! I figured I would ask a few owners out there to explain so that I could satisfy my curiosity. Thanks!
Why is it that Honda offers these loaded CR-Vs in other parts of the world, but not here in the US. The United States has the world's largest market for automobiles. I guess Honda doesn't want to be established as a near luxury brand in the US, they want to the the competitively priced, economical car company that has few features in some of their cars. If they had a CR-V with all the stuff that on the CR-V Premier in the United States they'd sell like hot cakes, especially since everyone is starting to get rid of their large Suburbans and Expeditions in favor of minivans, wagons, and "cute-utes." Also, they should make the body colored bumpers standard or at least optional, they look so much better than the ugly black plastic bumpers and molding that goes around the bottom of the vehicle.
Just make sure to look at the filter you removed to insure the gasket is still on it and not on the mounting plate and you should never have a problem.
Had a 2003 CRV towed in the other day. No fire, but a serious oil leak. Guess what? You got it! The local Quickie Lube shop neglected to wipe off the mounting plate and double gasketed it.
Doesn't take a degree in rocket science to check this but people get in a hurry.
I doubt small claims makes it into the legal database.. Plus, without expert testimony, it is just that judge's opinion... I'm not saying this won't turn into anything big (even if I don't think so), but it won't be from this case.
The NHTSA complaints may be another matter, however.. The Firestone/Explorer thing has thousands of complainants in a class action.. If every Honda CRV fire incident were all judged to be Honda's fault, it wouldn't be enough for a class action.
mr bots, I think they do market small suv's like the CR-V with all these bells and whistles because other countries do not have the Pilot and other higher end suv's available. Because gas prices are so much higher in other countries, they do tend to make the vehicles with 4 cyl engines/hybrids, etc.
are folks really getting rid of their huge suv's? or just getting an additional vehicle with much better gas mileage to get them around as a daily driver?
You're not going to like the answers, but here are the major reasons...
#1. They don't have to.
In places like the UK, and other markets where Honda is trying to fully establish themselves, they need to offer more content at a lower price. Their profit margins are slim on these models, but it's worth it because of the pay off in the long run.
You might ask yourself... How can they afford to offer CR-Vs with these low profit margins?
The answer would be the huge profit margin they make selling lesser models at higher prices here in the US. US profits subsidize UK cars. Honda is already established here. They don't have to be quite so competitive.
#2. US buyers equate price with size.
Sadly, this is a country that still believes bigger is better. They might pay $27K for a Pilot or Ody, but not a rinky-dink CR-V.
There are a few people who would buy a loaded CR-V for $27K, but not many. It's a niche segment. The most popular CR-V model is the LX with AWD. That is the most popular configuration. Most buyers still think that small SUVs are budget vehicles. You'll see the same thing with the Escape, RAV4, and others. The bulk of the sales are in the lower half of the price range. The high end models are just there to make the showroom look nice and for the occasional sucker... er... impulse buyer.
#3. The expensive model begins when the competition takes over.
Honda introduces the mildly tarted-up version (the SE trim) when the vehicle is getting long in the tooth. When the competition starts to get the better of the Honda, they start to offer more gismos and gadgets to help sales. Until that time comes (it is coming), they don't need the SE and can sell all the LX and EX models they get their hands on.
Any lawyer who looks at the 400 pages of data submitted by Honda will find the Georgia case which is a real case with a law firm for negligent design, etc. The claim of action goes several pages. (They had to attach all their cases). Mine is just a little dinky case, admittedly, but don't forget my insurance company is now suing and frankly I have heard from some of the other fire people off line that their ins company is now suing. Some are suing the dealers, but NHTSA stuff is leaving a good trail I know NHTSA is still interested. I talked to them yesterday. They are well aware of the 04 fires. Only a matter of time before it breaks in my opinion - the patterns are way too obvious. My case is small time - no precedent here, but that's ok (although why is Honda still fighting). And things are still occuring in the background.
just out of curiosity was the 03 that came in on it's first oil change. How many miles did it have. To this day every CRV fire (22 -03's and 3 04's) have been at or below the 10k mark.
Sabrina's case may seem small and insignificant but never underestimate what some hungary lawyers are willing to do. Just look at the lawsuits still being filed on behalf of hyundai owners because hyundai over estimated the HP.
I think varmint is correct. In the US, Honda's sales strategy is pretty clear - the Honda store is the place for the "sensible shoes" buyer, and the dealership catering to Mr. & Ms. Gizmo says "Acura" on the front door. I'm considering an AWD LX because it is a sensible vehicle that is well equipped with useful features, but is pretty much devoid of frivolous gadgets. If Honda takes the CR-V "upmarket", I'll look elsewhere for my next vehicle.
Acura has been considering an entry level crossover for their lines (the RDX concept). Originally, it was supposed to have been based on the next generation CR-V/Element platform. However, there are now rumors that it will be based on the TSX.
If that vehicle comes to market, the CR-V will be boxed in between the RDX and Element. They won't want to have too much overlap between the two marques.
I don't know how many miles it had. It was a 2003. The owner had used a Quick Lube. When the oil started pouring out he had it towed to us thinking it was a warranty item.
When we saw the double gasket and showed it to him, he had it towed back to the shop that changed the oil.
I never heard if the engine was damaged or not. The number of miles onthe CRV wouldn't matter if the oil filter had a double gasket.
Only would matter if it was the 1st oil change, becasue for some reason these double gaskets have only been from first o/c. For some reason, the double gasket and fire appears more likely to happen when the first oil filter is removed. Agree that screw ups can happen anytime, but all the fires have not happened anytime.
Why are we the last country to see this stuff? It's the same with the Forester, their LL Bean edition in Japan has Nav, other models have had Nav for half a decade, we're still waiting...
bshel is onto something, I think the concept of a "premium small car" is an oxymoron in this country, but in other parts of the world it's the norm.
I think there would be demand for an Acura-ized CR-V, but perhaps they're afraid that it would cannibalize MDX sales, which are hot (and more profitable)?
The Mini Cooper S is a hot little car, but if you look at sales volumes I think Honda builds more red CR-Vs on Thursdays than Mini sells cars all month long.
Land Rover Freelander does small volume, too. Let's see how the X3 sells for BMW. I think they could sell well if done right.
Well, there is a niche for vehicles like the BMW X3 and Freelander. But a good part of the reason why those vehicles sell (in small volumes) is because of the name BMW and Land Rover. They represent cheaper ways for people to get into the realm of proper snobbery. A gussied up CR-V will not have the same impact.
Other models, such as the Mercury Mariner, loaded RAV4, and loaded versions of other vehicles have other purposes. When the model starts to fail in the eye of the public, they start offering this stuff as freebies to tempt buyers onto the lots.
That's not very different from what Honda does with the SE model. It's just that Honda holds onto that strategy until the end of the model run. I'll wager it helps resale quite a bit because this content is "all new" and cannot be compared with the first few years of the design.
True, and I think an upscale CR-V would appeal to a different niche - the gadget gurus. Techies, mostly younger folks really into iPods and stuff like that.
They might care more about MHz and Gigabytes vs. HP and ft-lbs.
We'll soon see more JDM influence, I predict, as sport compact buyers grow up and have more disposable income.
As a company, Honda Motor Corporation landed in second place after Toyota. As a brand, Honda was ranked two slots above Toyota, but below Lexus, Buick, Infiniti, Lincoln, and Cadilac. Acura was slotted below Honda and above Toyota.
I wonder why Hyundai is still so far down. They beat Toyota in the IQ study recently.
So, is it because their cars are now much better than they were 5 years ago, or just that they score well early on and not so well long-term? Or are they just measuring different things.
The IQ study focuses on only the first 90 days of ownership. The long term dependability study covers something like three years. There's a big difference between first impressions and living with something.
But, yes, there may also be anomalies with respect to the sample. Hyundai cars from a few years ago may not have the same quality as cars produced recently. The answer to your question could be D. All of the above.
5 years actually (edit: they have both 3 and 5 year studies, so you're right). Much more significant, IMO, than the IQ study. 3-5 years later you're out of warranty and YOU pay for the repairs.
Two weeks ago I contacted a dealer for the CR-V that I wanted (2004, EX, blue, auto). They said that they had it on the lot, and that I just needed to put a deposit down on it. Well, the next morning, I called to do so, and they had already sold the car. But it's ok, they say, there's one coming in and we'll give it to you right off of the truck. I went in that day to fill out paperwork for financing and to pay them my deposit for the one coming in off of the truck. Salesperson says, "you can expect it in a couple of days." So I rush around to sell my 1991 Honda Civic so that I can get it out of the way before my brand new car comes.
Two weeks later, I am furious. Not only did it not come in within a "couple of days," it is STILL not in. Yesterday I spoke to the salesperson, she says "we are expecting this vehicle to arrive late tonight or early tomorrow morning, so let's set up a time for you to pick it up. How about 7pm?" So I accept that, totally prepared to get my CRV. Today, she calls and says "The CRV didn't come in. It'll probably be several more days."
ARGHHHHHH!! I have been without a car for almost a week because I sold my old one. And now they are telling me AGAIN that the car is not in.
I am currently checking with other local dealers, as well as dealers within 50-60 miles of here. I am just so furious at the service I have received that I do not even want to go through this dealership any more. While I know that they cannot control when their cars are delivered, I am ticked off that not once, but TWICE I was told it was going to be in and was later told otherwise. In addition, the salesperson told me that the car's manufacture date was on May 24 when I put the deposit down on it. Today, after she told me that cars are delivered in less than a month, I said "well mine's really late" and she said "no, it's not." I pointed out the May 24 manufacture date and she denied that she had ever said that. Makes me MORE mad.
How long did everyone else have to wait for their CRVs? This is ridiculous!
Still waiting to hear back from another dealer. One did not have the car in stock, the other thought that he might have it, had to check. I want my car TODAY!!!
We waited 2 weeks for our Blue EX auto. Dealer took my $3000 deposit and told me it would be in in 3 days. 3 days later they told me it'd be 3 weeks. I cancelled the check after they wouldn't give it back and took my business elsewhere.
That's a bummer. I bet they sold it to someone else for a higher price than you were willing to pay. Not uncommon with a popular product.
I'm pretty sure the dealers do know what's coming in (I won't say definitely but I've seen the allocation sheets--they know). Sure things may change but it would be pretty difficult to run a business without knowing what your inventory will be.
I think you're doing the right thing by going to a different dealer. No matter what they do I would not buy from the first. Good luck.
You had to put a $3000 deposit down on the car? Wow!! I wrote the check for the deposit two weeks ago, and when I checked my bank records this morning, I saw that they have already cashed the check (which I was kind of surprised about, because don't businesses usually wait to cash deposits until you actually purchase it?) so I wouldn't be able to cancel my check, but I was told that deposits were 100% refundable. They damn well better be!
Still waiting to hear back from the other dealer...
So the dealer that I am currently in agreement with just called me back and said that they have an "option" for me. She said that she was sitting at her desk and saw a 2004 blue EX model drive by and that she "investigated" and it turns out that it is a car that the owner's daughter has been driving around for a while. She says that it has 3000 miles on it and it has extras -- running boards, cross bars and something else... it escapes me right now. Anyhow, she tells me, these are $1500 worth of accessories and they will give me this car if I pay them only $800 more. HELLO?!! NO WAY!! First of all, why the heck would I pay the same amount for a car that has 3000 miles on it as a car that has less than 10?? Secondly, why should I have to pay you extra money for ANYTHING when you are trying to give me this "option" car just because you can't deliver me the one that I want??
I told her no way, I don't want it.
Unfortunately, no other dealers have the car that I want in stock. One dealer told me that the delivery date for their next one is on or around July 6. I am reluctant to switch dealers without knowing when the car is going to come in. I figure I can wait until Friday to see if I hear about the car, and then make a decision. I am taking a chance, however, since the one coming in on or around July 6 could very well be purchased before I make my decision. We shall see... I am just so frustrated all around. I know that once I have the car, I can forget about all that I had to go through to get it, but it doesn't make it any easier right now!
She says that it has 3000 miles on it and it has extras -- running boards, cross bars and something else... it escapes me right now
It just came to me, the other accessory was splash guards. Is anybody else failing to see how these three accessories add up to be $1500 of accessories that she's giving me a *GREAT DEAL* on at $800? For my own piece of mind, I'm going to imagine that those were only a few of the accessories, and she had more to add to the list had I showed interest!!
3000 miles is still a demo, I think up to 5000 miles. Still, treat it like a low mileage used car. It should cost *at least* 10% less than a new one. But accessories carry a huge profit margin, so that $700 discount is nothing.
I still don't even see how the accessories I was being offered add up to $1500 original price. Could it really cost that much money for the install? I never wanted any of those accessories, so I never would have accepted that offer. Even without accessories, I do not want a car that someone has been driving around for probably about 3 months (going with the average 1000 miles a month), and especially not at the same price as a *brand new* one.
Down where I live a car is considered "used" once it hits 2500 miles, after that the interest rate goes up and its value goes down, since they aren't really dropping the price from a "brand new" one I'd pass and look elsewhere. I was looking at a car that had 1700 miles on it and they were dropping $1000 off the sticker for high mileage.
3000 miles is still a demo, I think up to 5000 miles. Still, treat it like a low mileage used car. It should cost *at least* 10% less than a new one. But accessories carry a huge profit margin, so that $700 discount is nothing.
I still don't even see how the accessories I was being offered add up to $1500 original price. Could it really cost that much money for the install? I never wanted any of those accessories, so I never would have accepted that offer. Even without accessories, I do not want a car that someone has been driving around for probably about 3 months (going with the average 1000 miles a month), and especially not at the same price as a *brand new* one.
I recently purchased a 2004 CR-V 2WD LX. I haven't as yet posted my buying experience story...suffice to say, there was drama, but this is a more pressing question.
I am finding that I'm getting really sucky gas mileage on this vehicle, which is disappointing. My first fill up found me looking at 21 mpg. I drive quite a lot...and it's a mixture of city and highway.
What is actually causing me to worry is that today, I had to fill up again. I got the refuel light indicator coming on and drove about 10 miles before stopping to put in about 1.5 gallons on the car....was going to fill up, but the price was 20 cents more than I usually pay at Sam's Club. So...I filled up 1.5 gals and drove about 15 more miles before getting to Sam's Club. The fuel light had not come back on again yet. When I filled up, I was only able to put in about 11.5 gallons!!!!! I thought the fuel capacity is 15.3 gallons? Even if you add the 1.5 gals, that only puts me filling up at 13 gallons.
My question is: how much gas do you have left in the tank when you get the fuel light on? It's so depressing to see the total miles when you have to fill back up....it was just under 300 miles. I used to drive a 1995 Accord LX and I could go 370 miles before I had to fuel up. Will the gas mileage improve?
Love the CR-V, very disappointed with the gas mileage.
I don't personally own a CR-V, but from my past experiences you gas mileage improves as the engine breaks in, reaching its maximum at around 10K miles and then after that it stays pretty constant.
I hate stories like this because they make us all look bad.
If I saw a May 24th build date I would tell my customer to expect delivery the first week of July. It can easily take a month for a car to arrive after the projected build date.
It's much better to under promise and over deliver. I can't tell you how happy my customers are when I call them a week before the projected delivery date to tell them their car has arrived early.
If you buy it elsewhere I wouldn't blame you. Hopefully the "fear of loss" salesperson will learn an important lesson.
Drive 62...That was a pretty cynical statement and I doubt if that's what happened.
More likely a case of a mis-informed salesperson or a salesperson why was afraid of losing the sale over the wait.
Another thing...I always try hard to get a second choice on color. Sometimes the buyer isn't a big "color person" who HAS to have a certain color. If I have a second or third choice it can sure get a car to them faster.
I hate stories like this because they make us all look bad.
I have talked to two salesmen today and both of them said the same thing. One of them is a family friend and he was ticked. Both said that they usually tell the customer a longer waiting time so that they are pleasantly surprised if it comes in early and prepared if it takes a little bit longer. Unfortunately, I didn't get a salesperson that does this! I feel that if I had been told the correct waiting period from the beginning, I would definitely not be upset right now. <sigh> Oh well... just trying to get through these next (hopefully!) few days...
BTW... sorry everyone for my last post going through twice. I have no idea how that happened. They went through like an hour apart, so weird.
Another thing...I always try hard to get a second choice on color. Sometimes the buyer isn't a big "color person" who HAS to have a certain color. If I have a second or third choice it can sure get a car to them faster.
Yeah, unfortunately I am set on my blue. I actually really like the red exterior as well, and it would be a second choice if the interior wasn't tan. I'm not crazy about the saddle interior at all so the choice was made easily... gotta have the blue. If I wanted silver, I'd have my car by now.
My question is: how much gas do you have left in the tank when you get the fuel light on? It's so depressing to see the total miles when you have to fill back up....it was just under 300 miles. I used to drive a 1995 Accord LX and I could go 370 miles before I had to fuel up. Will the gas mileage improve?
About 3 gallons. It's a warning light, not a "stop at the very next gas station or you'll be sorry" light. As to the MPG it will improve slowly with time (miles driven). As to your calculations, you put in a total of 13 gallons (1.5+11.5) divided into 300 miles is 23 MPG.
Comments
Thx for feedback. My car did not have double gasket according to insurance co investigation and Honda never mentioned it in court so since they did an "investigation" I presume it is not an issue. They did allege the filter was not changed properly but never said why - no dbl gasket, no pinched filter and unlike others car went for 500 miles before the fire with no oil leakage. This is mystifying. They could easily give me money and admit nothing (which I offered). They have easily spent way more than what they would have paid me - you can't say I have a frivilous case. And I tried to settle seversal times. I have at least 5 registered letters. Insurance company never got responses either. It is a pain...If they are going to defend themselves in court, why wouldn't they just send me and my ins co the same info they are presenting in court...BEFORE we went to court
Outside of simply not screwing the filter on tight enough, I can't think of any other type of "installation error". But then if you drove 500 miles before the fire, the filter must have been on tight. How else can a filter be changed improperly?
.
In the infamous words of Bill Gates as he spoke to some High School students, "Life isn't fair, get used to it.". Keep your head up Sabrina and keep fighting, we're with you and keep us informed as your case progresses.
We have no idea what wars Honda is battling on other fronts. Perhaps they are holding Sabrina off while they deal with more serious fire claims. North America isn't the only place the CR-V is sold. Ya just never know.
-juice
I predict zero effect.. Have you heard about her case anywhere but here?
regards,
kyfdx
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-juice
Just to break away and enlighten us a bit more about the CR-V's built for OTHER parts of the world, go to the Honda U.K. website and check out their CR-V PREMIER !!
Here is the link, just click on the icon (picture) of the CR-V Premier on the upper right once you get there !!
www.honda.co.uk
---------------
Here's a list of features......(NAVI, DVD, etc.)
Cosmic Grey Pearl metalic paint
Fog Lights
DVD Rear Entertainment System
Soft Front Grille Guard
Cordless infra-red headphones
Aluminium Skid Plate
Centre armrest
Chrome Side Pipes
Titanium interior
Chrome Exhaust Finisher
Satellite Navigation
Tailgate Spoiler
Privacy Glass
My question is... what exactly is a passive alarm? How does it work on the CR-V? I'm just wondering because I had considered adding an alarm on the CRV and had decided against it (at least for now). However, I'm wondering if a passive alarm was what I was wanting all along, and it's included! I figured I would ask a few owners out there to explain so that I could satisfy my curiosity. Thanks!
Had a 2003 CRV towed in the other day. No fire, but a serious oil leak. Guess what? You got it! The local Quickie Lube shop neglected to wipe off the mounting plate and double gasketed it.
Doesn't take a degree in rocket science to check this but people get in a hurry.
The NHTSA complaints may be another matter, however.. The Firestone/Explorer thing has thousands of complainants in a class action.. If every Honda CRV fire incident were all judged to be Honda's fault, it wouldn't be enough for a class action.
regards,
kyfdx
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are folks really getting rid of their huge suv's? or just getting an additional vehicle with much better gas mileage to get them around as a daily driver?
#1. They don't have to.
In places like the UK, and other markets where Honda is trying to fully establish themselves, they need to offer more content at a lower price. Their profit margins are slim on these models, but it's worth it because of the pay off in the long run.
You might ask yourself... How can they afford to offer CR-Vs with these low profit margins?
The answer would be the huge profit margin they make selling lesser models at higher prices here in the US. US profits subsidize UK cars. Honda is already established here. They don't have to be quite so competitive.
#2. US buyers equate price with size.
Sadly, this is a country that still believes bigger is better. They might pay $27K for a Pilot or Ody, but not a rinky-dink CR-V.
There are a few people who would buy a loaded CR-V for $27K, but not many. It's a niche segment. The most popular CR-V model is the LX with AWD. That is the most popular configuration. Most buyers still think that small SUVs are budget vehicles. You'll see the same thing with the Escape, RAV4, and others. The bulk of the sales are in the lower half of the price range. The high end models are just there to make the showroom look nice and for the occasional sucker... er... impulse buyer.
#3. The expensive model begins when the competition takes over.
Honda introduces the mildly tarted-up version (the SE trim) when the vehicle is getting long in the tooth. When the competition starts to get the better of the Honda, they start to offer more gismos and gadgets to help sales. Until that time comes (it is coming), they don't need the SE and can sell all the LX and EX models they get their hands on.
If that vehicle comes to market, the CR-V will be boxed in between the RDX and Element. They won't want to have too much overlap between the two marques.
When we saw the double gasket and showed it to him, he had it towed back to the shop that changed the oil.
I never heard if the engine was damaged or not. The number of miles onthe CRV wouldn't matter if the oil filter had a double gasket.
Why are we the last country to see this stuff? It's the same with the Forester, their LL Bean edition in Japan has Nav, other models have had Nav for half a decade, we're still waiting...
bshel is onto something, I think the concept of a "premium small car" is an oxymoron in this country, but in other parts of the world it's the norm.
I think there would be demand for an Acura-ized CR-V, but perhaps they're afraid that it would cannibalize MDX sales, which are hot (and more profitable)?
The Mini Cooper S is a hot little car, but if you look at sales volumes I think Honda builds more red CR-Vs on Thursdays than Mini sells cars all month long.
Land Rover Freelander does small volume, too. Let's see how the X3 sells for BMW. I think they could sell well if done right.
-juice
Other models, such as the Mercury Mariner, loaded RAV4, and loaded versions of other vehicles have other purposes. When the model starts to fail in the eye of the public, they start offering this stuff as freebies to tempt buyers onto the lots.
That's not very different from what Honda does with the SE model. It's just that Honda holds onto that strategy until the end of the model run. I'll wager it helps resale quite a bit because this content is "all new" and cannot be compared with the first few years of the design.
They might care more about MHz and Gigabytes vs. HP and ft-lbs.
We'll soon see more JDM influence, I predict, as sport compact buyers grow up and have more disposable income.
-juice
http://www.jdpower.com/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2004055
As a company, Honda Motor Corporation landed in second place after Toyota. As a brand, Honda was ranked two slots above Toyota, but below Lexus, Buick, Infiniti, Lincoln, and Cadilac. Acura was slotted below Honda and above Toyota.
So, is it because their cars are now much better than they were 5 years ago, or just that they score well early on and not so well long-term? Or are they just measuring different things.
All of the above?
-juice
The IQ study focuses on only the first 90 days of ownership. The long term dependability study covers something like three years. There's a big difference between first impressions and living with something.
But, yes, there may also be anomalies with respect to the sample. Hyundai cars from a few years ago may not have the same quality as cars produced recently. The answer to your question could be D. All of the above.
90 days (IQ) who cares, it's all free.
-juice
Two weeks ago I contacted a dealer for the CR-V that I wanted (2004, EX, blue, auto). They said that they had it on the lot, and that I just needed to put a deposit down on it. Well, the next morning, I called to do so, and they had already sold the car. But it's ok, they say, there's one coming in and we'll give it to you right off of the truck. I went in that day to fill out paperwork for financing and to pay them my deposit for the one coming in off of the truck. Salesperson says, "you can expect it in a couple of days." So I rush around to sell my 1991 Honda Civic so that I can get it out of the way before my brand new car comes.
Two weeks later, I am furious. Not only did it not come in within a "couple of days," it is STILL not in. Yesterday I spoke to the salesperson, she says "we are expecting this vehicle to arrive late tonight or early tomorrow morning, so let's set up a time for you to pick it up. How about 7pm?" So I accept that, totally prepared to get my CRV. Today, she calls and says "The CRV didn't come in. It'll probably be several more days."
ARGHHHHHH!! I have been without a car for almost a week because I sold my old one. And now they are telling me AGAIN that the car is not in.
I am currently checking with other local dealers, as well as dealers within 50-60 miles of here. I am just so furious at the service I have received that I do not even want to go through this dealership any more. While I know that they cannot control when their cars are delivered, I am ticked off that not once, but TWICE I was told it was going to be in and was later told otherwise. In addition, the salesperson told me that the car's manufacture date was on May 24 when I put the deposit down on it. Today, after she told me that cars are delivered in less than a month, I said "well mine's really late" and she said "no, it's not." I pointed out the May 24 manufacture date and she denied that she had ever said that. Makes me MORE mad.
How long did everyone else have to wait for their CRVs? This is ridiculous!
Still waiting to hear back from another dealer. One did not have the car in stock, the other thought that he might have it, had to check. I want my car TODAY!!!
Good luck.
I'm pretty sure the dealers do know what's coming in (I won't say definitely but I've seen the allocation sheets--they know). Sure things may change but it would be pretty difficult to run a business without knowing what your inventory will be.
I think you're doing the right thing by going to a different dealer. No matter what they do I would not buy from the first. Good luck.
Still waiting to hear back from the other dealer...
A delay I could forgive, but the lying, no.
Make sure to drive by in your shiny new vehicle to show them they lost your bid-ness. ;-)
-juice
I told her no way, I don't want it.
Unfortunately, no other dealers have the car that I want in stock. One dealer told me that the delivery date for their next one is on or around July 6. I am reluctant to switch dealers without knowing when the car is going to come in. I figure I can wait until Friday to see if I hear about the car, and then make a decision. I am taking a chance, however, since the one coming in on or around July 6 could very well be purchased before I make my decision. We shall see... I am just so frustrated all around. I know that once I have the car, I can forget about all that I had to go through to get it, but it doesn't make it any easier right now!
Still without my CRV...
It just came to me, the other accessory was splash guards. Is anybody else failing to see how these three accessories add up to be $1500 of accessories that she's giving me a *GREAT DEAL* on at $800? For my own piece of mind, I'm going to imagine that those were only a few of the accessories, and she had more to add to the list had I showed interest!!
But accessories carry a huge profit margin, so that $700 discount is nothing.
-juice
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But accessories carry a huge profit margin, so that $700 discount is nothing.
I still don't even see how the accessories I was being offered add up to $1500 original price. Could it really cost that much money for the install? I never wanted any of those accessories, so I never would have accepted that offer. Even without accessories, I do not want a car that someone has been driving around for probably about 3 months (going with the average 1000 miles a month), and especially not at the same price as a *brand new* one.
But accessories carry a huge profit margin, so that $700 discount is nothing.
I still don't even see how the accessories I was being offered add up to $1500 original price. Could it really cost that much money for the install? I never wanted any of those accessories, so I never would have accepted that offer. Even without accessories, I do not want a car that someone has been driving around for probably about 3 months (going with the average 1000 miles a month), and especially not at the same price as a *brand new* one.
I am finding that I'm getting really sucky gas mileage on this vehicle, which is disappointing. My first fill up found me looking at 21 mpg. I drive quite a lot...and it's a mixture of city and highway.
What is actually causing me to worry is that today, I had to fill up again. I got the refuel light indicator coming on and drove about 10 miles before stopping to put in about 1.5 gallons on the car....was going to fill up, but the price was 20 cents more than I usually pay at Sam's Club. So...I filled up 1.5 gals and drove about 15 more miles before getting to Sam's Club. The fuel light had not come back on again yet. When I filled up, I was only able to put in about 11.5 gallons!!!!! I thought the fuel capacity is 15.3 gallons? Even if you add the 1.5 gals, that only puts me filling up at 13 gallons.
My question is: how much gas do you have left in the tank when you get the fuel light on? It's so depressing to see the total miles when you have to fill back up....it was just under 300 miles. I used to drive a 1995 Accord LX and I could go 370 miles before I had to fuel up. Will the gas mileage improve?
Love the CR-V, very disappointed with the gas mileage.
If I saw a May 24th build date I would tell my customer to expect delivery the first week of July. It can easily take a month for a car to arrive after the projected build date.
It's much better to under promise and over deliver. I can't tell you how happy my customers are when I call them a week before the projected delivery date to tell them their car has arrived early.
If you buy it elsewhere I wouldn't blame you. Hopefully the "fear of loss" salesperson will learn an important lesson.
More likely a case of a mis-informed salesperson or a salesperson why was afraid of losing the sale over the wait.
Another thing...I always try hard to get a second choice on color. Sometimes the buyer isn't a big "color person" who HAS to have a certain color. If I have a second or third choice it can sure get a car to them faster.
I have talked to two salesmen today and both of them said the same thing. One of them is a family friend and he was ticked. Both said that they usually tell the customer a longer waiting time so that they are pleasantly surprised if it comes in early and prepared if it takes a little bit longer. Unfortunately, I didn't get a salesperson that does this! I feel that if I had been told the correct waiting period from the beginning, I would definitely not be upset right now. <sigh> Oh well... just trying to get through these next (hopefully!) few days...
BTW... sorry everyone for my last post going through twice. I have no idea how that happened. They went through like an hour apart, so weird.
Yeah, unfortunately I am set on my blue. I actually really like the red exterior as well, and it would be a second choice if the interior wasn't tan. I'm not crazy about the saddle interior at all so the choice was made easily... gotta have the blue. If I wanted silver, I'd have my car by now.
About 3 gallons. It's a warning light, not a "stop at the very next gas station or you'll be sorry" light. As to the MPG it will improve slowly with time (miles driven). As to your calculations, you put in a total of 13 gallons (1.5+11.5) divided into 300 miles is 23 MPG.