car spy shots has a pic up from a guy in Australia that happened upon a new RD-X and a couple of ne CR-V's being tested. The RD-X in the pic is the clearest and closest, with the CR-V's a little hard to make out. The CR-V's have their rear 3/4 windows taped up to look like conventional side glass, though the guy who took the pics says under the camo was the "stream-type" window as seen in the illustrations/photochops that have been floating around. I'd link to it but I seem to remember that Edmund's has a thing about linking to other forums. No spare on the back, btw, so it looks like it will be a conventional hatch.
varmint wrote: A clamshell just complicates the process of opening the door and makes it more difficult to reach parcels which have been pushed forward in the cargo area. You have to climb into the rig to get at things because the drop gate prevents you from getting as close
Dunno about that, the lower portion of the Element's gate is relatively small, enough to sit on but not so long that it makes it a reach. It's just not that deep.
I guess one solution would be the Ridgeline's, have it fold down or swing away from the curb for easy loading. I'm not sure the fold down gate is big enough to really require that, though.
Honda has been developing quite a few cars in the US. Recent examples include the Civic Coupe (Si included) Acura TL, MDX, Pilot, Ridgeline, and Element. I think the Ody is on the list, too. They have three design studios in California (broke ground on another yesterday) and a fourth in Ohio.
Very cool, I didn't realize they were doing so much development here in the USA.
Actually, the new Mitsubishi Outlander features a clam-shell design for it's rear gate. Similar to the Element, in that the fold down portion is small....enough to sit on but not enough to really get in the way. It's also quite low (it seems to be part of the rear bumper), so liftover is incredibly easy. 3rd row seat doesn't look as accomodating as RAV4/Santa Fe/Mazda5, but would probably be ok for occasional small person use. The Outlander will be featured at the NYC autoshow and should be on sale by Sept. Does Honda have a release date for the 2007 CR-V?
I may go to the NY show so I'll try to snap some pics.
One thing cool about the Element's fold down gate is that the seam is covered by a plastic cover that sort of folds with the door. Very simple yet clever. It makes it easy to slide or roll things in.
"One thing cool about the Element's fold down gate is that the seam is covered by a plastic cover that sort of folds with the door." From the pics I've seen, this would seem to be the case with the Outlander as well. Back to the CR-V....I was browsing one of the British mags the other day (4 Car) and in their future vehicles section, they were still mentioning a 2007 Honda Latitude, saying it was Civic-based and mainly for the US market but might come to the UK along side the current FR-V. If Honda is still planning a Mazda5 fighter for North America, I'm wondering if the CR-V will eschew a third row, and go with the Latitude as their small multi-passenger vehicle.
I think the design begs the question, "why bother?". It just adds another step to the process of opening and closing the back. As far as I can see, it provides no real advantage when compared with a single piece lift-gate. If one of the advantages to a lift-gate is that it provides shelter in the rain, the split design just decreases the size of the shelter and makes you stand farther away from the sheltered area.
My wife has a suprisingly short list of things her next car MUST have. At the top of that list are a sunroof/moonroof and a seat height (a.k.a. step-in height), above ground level, that is somewhere between that of her Mazda 626 (20") and my Dodge Ram (33").
She runs a lot of errands during a normal day. Falling down into, and climbing up out of her 626, is exhausting. The truck has the opposite effect, but is not as objectionable and she doesn't use it as much.
I cannot find this measurement for any car/suv on the web and I am disinclined to visit all of the dealerships with my yardstick. I estimate it by subtracting the front headroom value from the overall vehicle height value, but I think this is wildly inaccurate.
Since the list of possible-next cars includes the subject of this forum, I was hoping that somebody would, in their spare time, measure the height above ground to the middle (more or less) of the seat cushion (i.e. the top-center of the horizontal seating surface) and post that value here.
I have read these forums extensively over the past few weeks and I have not seen any discussion of this. I beg your pardon if I missed it and am being redundant.
MDX concept is supposed to be there, plus the new Altima. Subaru will likely show the 07 Tribeca and *might* announce whether the R2 will be sold in the US.
Does Honda have anything? Seems like they just came out with a lot of new products. It would be cool to see the Si sedan and concept, though.
The closest thing to ease of entry discussions around here are geared towards seniors or those outside the height norms, but your wife may find something of interest in them anyway.
I can help with various Subies. I measured for a few folks that were asking about a Tribeca, copied from a previous post here on Edmunds:
For reference, I measured each car I saw:
Miata: 13" (talk about low) Legacy 2.5i sedan: 17.5" Impreza RS sedan: 20" (surprise, much higher than the Legacy) Outback XT: 22" Tribeca: 26"
So the Outback's seat is about 4.5" higher up than the regular Legacy, and the Tribeca's is yet another 4" higher than the Outback. More than I thought, actually.
I had placed the seat in a comfortable position for me, so YMMV as they say. But even at the lowest point the Tribeca cleared 25", and you could get it up to past 27" or so if you put the power seat all the way up.
The Forester is slightly higher than the Outback, the CR-V is higher still. It depends on your own height, but with a 30" inseam I basically can sit on the Forester's seat without climbing up or sinking down. I sprained my back last year and it was excrutiatingly *painful* to lower myself into my wife's Legacy, but I could easily get in the Forester.
Try it out, you may be taller or shorter than me. Anything taller than a Forester and you'll be climbing up into the seat unless you are Shaq. A shorter person may prefer something a little lower, like an Outback. My step mom is 5'2" and she loves her Outback.
If I wanted a vehicle with a 3rd row I would buy a Pilot. I was shopping those as well but didn't want to pay for a seat that would always be stowed away and eating up space that I need for cargo. I already have a 3rd seat in the Ody. I don't think that the third seat in the Rav or the HL would be very comfortable, those just aren't very large vehicles. I think a third row in the CR-V would only be big enough for pre-schoolers. Perhaps if they could make it a stand alone option. I would have bought a Pilot if I could have gotten it without the 3rd seat and maybe with a manual tranny.
I'm sorta hoping that Honda will show their HCCI engine at NY, but I doubt it. They were rumored to release it at one of the auto shows this year. I haven't heard anything about it for a while.
Thanks. That's good info. My wife really loves the Forester, but I always think that, because it's a small car, it must also be too low. It's a perception thing.
Apparently, you'd better check to see make sure your lens prescription matches the maturity of your eyes. I was comparing a lift-gate vs. a clamshell gate. Read the thread again. :shades:
since you point out one of the obvious disadvantages of the 'side swinger' in one post and 'touted' the overhead design in another, i combined those when making my response. good thing i can still remember the contents of more than one post at a time. :shades: :shades:
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
This is unconfirmed, but I've received information that the media launch for the all-new CR-V will be held in Vancouver in July....not sure if that's just for Canadian media or all North American media.....so it seems like the new CR-V may appear a bit sooner than we think. As for the possibility of a third row....yes, it should be optional (and on all trim levels, not just the top level trim like Toyota Canada did with the new Rav-4)...and yes, I agree it wouldn't be too comfortable for larger folks on a cross-country trip, but that's not it's purpose. It's for a couple extra kids or small adults for occasional short-hop use. A family of 3 like us doesn't need a full-size minivan for day-to-day use, but would like the flexibility of being able to carry a couple of extra passengers when Grandma & Grampa or other friends & family come to visit....beats having to take 2 cars.
The timing seems strange...NY is the last big show, and the auto show season doesn't really pick up again until the fall. Even then, SEMA is not the place for this type of vehicle, but I guess the LA show would work.
Other than that, they're not gonna get a very big audience. Odd.
Certainly haven't heard about Honda slipping in the new CR-V or a protoype even into the NYC show. It seems like they're going to introduce it with little public fanfare. I'm sure they DO want to get it out there, though. If the media launch is in July, I would expect public sale would be Sept. at the latest. With the new Rav-4 already out and doing well, plus a new Santa Fe this summer and the Outlander due by Sept., I'm sure Honda doesn't want to lose any more ground. And pictures are starting to float around of a new Nissan small SUV....the X-Trail is due for a full model change, however the pics suggest something smaller...somewhere between a Tuscon and Suzuki's upcoming CUV. And let's not forget Mazda's CX-7, Ford's Edge + the refreshed Escape (and Tribute) + a new Suzuki XL-7. It's getting crowded out there!
Maybe it's the angle of some of the shots (re new Nissan SUV), but the front overhang looks huge, while the rear overhang is almost non-existant. Make me think it will be heavy on the "sport" and a little light on the "utility"
I'm sure Honda doesn't want to lose any more ground.
What makes you say something like this? AFAIK Honda isn't losing ground to anyone. Sales were up for February. HMC is at a 52 week high.
You seem enamored with Mitsubishi. That automaker along with most of the others you mentioned (you seriously think Suzuki is competition for Honda) are not who Honda worries about.
When was the last time Honda hurried up an intro because they were "losing ground" to the competition? I think never but I'm sure someone can correct me.
Based on what I've read in other articles, the difficulties involved in developing a mass-production HCCI include the following.
1. Making it run smoothly. 2. Making it run well at low rpms. 3. Making it run well at high rpms. 4. Costs.
Honda seems to have addressed 1 and 2. The same casting method they developed for the 2.2L diesel unit probably takes care of #1. Not sure how they worked out #2.
HCCI engines are relatively strong in the mid-range. Combining it with IMA as suggested in the article makes sense. The electric motor can provide boost in both the low and high rpm situations.
I'm simply saying the current CR-V is at the end of it's cycle, there's a lot of competition out there, and some newer designs (the Rav-4, for example) have moved to the forefront of the small SUV category. Despite it's age, the CR-V is certainly holding it's own and does better most of the competition in the areas of safety, it's 5 speed automatic, and spaciousness. As for Mitsubishi, I like the design of the new Outlander and will certainly check it out, though as a manufacturer, they're certainly not at the top of my list. I'm excited that the press preview for the CR-V is in July and look forward to a vehicle that, in typical Honda fashion, will probably leapfrog the competition once again. BTW, FWIW, CR-V sales were down 7.8% in Feb. and 8% YTD according to the figures on TOV, so, while Honda in general is on a tear, the CR-V is starting to show it's age.
Homogeneous Charge Compression Ignition, rolls right off the tongue, no?
Honda is known for controlling ignition and valve timing so closely, so it's interesting to see them trying to deal with compression ignition, which is very hard to control. I'd love to see what those pistons look like.
Back to the NY Show and the 07 models, I'm still surprised they're not at least showing a teaser concept of the next CR-V sooner than July. The Model X came out long before the Element arrive. Then again it had no predecessor.
"Then again it had no predecessor." That may be the key, juice. I'm not 100% sure, but seems to me there were no autoshow unveils of the current CR-V when it came out (2002). On the other hand, Honda (Acura) is showing an MDX prototype, so who knows?!
It's tough, I guess, with cars coming out every month of the year nowadays. They used to all come out all at the same time. Now it's hard to schedule a debut for a car show.
The CR-V is such a well-known player, it really doesn't need extra publicity. Anyone shopping small SUVs is going to check out the CR-V. Advertising the new model would simply kill sales of the current vehicle without providing any significant benefit.
The same would apply for several other models. The Odyssey was so well-known it did not require any extra buzz. Neither did the 2003 Accord or 2001 Civic.
When a model falters, they release a show car which generates some buzz about the very area where the vehicle is most criticized. In short, they'd have a specific goal. The last Civic was bashed for not being sporty enough. So Honda released an Si concept car to counter that perception and boost the image of the new vehicle. The old 3.5RL was such an old car, they released information about it's high-tech features to build extra buzz. The MDX is 6 years old and so it gets an early boost for similar reasons.
Obviously, any completely new vehicle is going to need some buzz and has no current model to harm. So that's a given.
Hopefully it will be something practical like a stretched 6 passenger version with proper rear doors + a bump in power and a 5 speed auto rather than another blinged-out Studio E type thing.
Those make it heavier than the CR-V, and even though Honda said they'd beef them up big-time, crash tests showed they still sacrifice safety. It's just too big an opening right where the vulnerable passengers are.
I think that and the 4 passenger capacity have made more than a few buyers shy away.
Then again, they don't want it to overlap with the CR-V too much. It has not cannibalized CR-V sales, and I'm sure that's just how Honda wants it.
Maybe keep the cladding, the two-tone, the wipe-down cargo area, but make a few concessions to make it more practical for more than 2 passengers.
I dunno, sales are OK, they probably won't change it much.
There's no real reason to stretch it, add seats, alter the doors, or make any other major changes. The Element is 3 years into it's product cycle. It is intentionally a low volume vehicle. So major changes would just nullify profitability only a few years before it gets killed or redesigned.
Right now, I'm looking at the 22nd as the day I'll be in NY. The news will be all over the place by then. But maybe I can catch some good pics or video.
See the RD-X thread in the Future Vehicles forum for a pic of the production version of the RD-X with 2 new CR-V's in the background. Very small image, so it's hard to make out anything concrete, save for there's no rear-mounted spare. The rear 3/4 "Stream-type" window has been taped up and diguised to look like a conventional window, according to the guy who too the pics (in Australia).
I am currently looking into buying a 2006 CR-V AWD 2.4L 4cyl. I have already found a dealership in Greensboro, NC and I am an avid user of the Consumer Reports and trust it completely to help me find a reliable and affordable car. I know they offer a way to find the price to negotiate with (i.e. no holdbacks, no dealer incentives, any rebates offered, etc.) however, they do charge for this information they call a Consumer Reports Bottom Line Price. i know the invoice can include incentives and holdback costs that the dealer gets for selling the vehicle. What I am trying to determine is exactly what the dealer paid by subtracting the holdback and any incentives I can find out about for this particular dealer. Does anyone know how to find this information on the internet or anywhere else so I can try to get the deal I am hoping for? Any help would be appreciated!
You'll never find out what the dealer paid --too many incentive programs, spiffs, cruises, quota bonus and who knows what all that us mere consumers never hear about (heck, often the salespeople don't know about some of these). But these links will help:
I am currently looking into buying a 2006 CR-V AWD 2.4L 4cyl. I have already found a dealership in Greensboro, NC and I am an avid user of the Consumer Reports and trust it completely to help me find a reliable and affordable car. I know they offer a way to find the price to negotiate with (i.e. no holdbacks, no dealer incentives, any rebates offered, etc.) however, they do charge for this information they call a Consumer Reports Bottom Line Price. i know the invoice can include incentives and holdback costs that the dealer gets for selling the vehicle. What I am trying to determine is exactly what the dealer paid by subtracting the holdback and any incentives I can find out about for this particular dealer. Does anyone know how to find this information on the internet or anywhere else so I can try to get the deal I am hoping for? Any help would be appreciated!
Consumer reports is good guide, but the dealer is not obliged to follow it. So to me, it is a waste of money. I can guess what the dealer paid just as well as the consumer reports does. Besides, the dealer has to make a profit to stay afloat. So, they are not going to sell you a car if they are not making any money on it.
Comments
I'd link to it but I seem to remember that Edmund's has a thing about linking to other forums. No spare on the back, btw, so it looks like it will be a conventional hatch.
Dunno about that, the lower portion of the Element's gate is relatively small, enough to sit on but not so long that it makes it a reach. It's just not that deep.
I guess one solution would be the Ridgeline's, have it fold down or swing away from the curb for easy loading. I'm not sure the fold down gate is big enough to really require that, though.
Honda has been developing quite a few cars in the US. Recent examples include the Civic Coupe (Si included) Acura TL, MDX, Pilot, Ridgeline, and Element. I think the Ody is on the list, too. They have three design studios in California (broke ground on another yesterday) and a fourth in Ohio.
Very cool, I didn't realize they were doing so much development here in the USA.
-juice
One thing cool about the Element's fold down gate is that the seam is covered by a plastic cover that sort of folds with the door. Very simple yet clever. It makes it easy to slide or roll things in.
-juice
From the pics I've seen, this would seem to be the case with the Outlander as well.
Back to the CR-V....I was browsing one of the British mags the other day (4 Car) and in their future vehicles section, they were still mentioning a 2007 Honda Latitude, saying it was Civic-based and mainly for the US market but might come to the UK along side the current FR-V. If Honda is still planning a Mazda5 fighter for North America, I'm wondering if the CR-V will eschew a third row, and go with the Latitude as their small multi-passenger vehicle.
I think the design begs the question, "why bother?". It just adds another step to the process of opening and closing the back. As far as I can see, it provides no real advantage when compared with a single piece lift-gate. If one of the advantages to a lift-gate is that it provides shelter in the rain, the split design just decreases the size of the shelter and makes you stand farther away from the sheltered area.
She runs a lot of errands during a normal day. Falling down into, and climbing up out of her 626, is exhausting. The truck has the opposite effect, but is not as objectionable and she doesn't use it as much.
I cannot find this measurement for any car/suv on the web and I am disinclined to visit all of the dealerships with my yardstick. I estimate it by subtracting the front headroom value from the overall vehicle height value, but I think this is wildly inaccurate.
Since the list of possible-next cars includes the subject of this forum, I was hoping that somebody would, in their spare time, measure the height above ground to the middle (more or less) of the seat cushion (i.e. the top-center of the horizontal seating surface) and post that value here.
I have read these forums extensively over the past few weeks and I have not seen any discussion of this. I beg your pardon if I missed it and am being redundant.
Thanks in advance.
Does Honda have anything? Seems like they just came out with a lot of new products. It would be cool to see the Si sedan and concept, though.
-juice
Best Vehicle for Elderly/Limited Mobility Drivers
Best Vehicles for Shorter Drivers
Best Vehicles for Taller/Larger Drivers
The Top 10 Best Vehicles for Seniors in 2006 article doesn't list a single SUV.
Steve, Host
For reference, I measured each car I saw:
Miata: 13" (talk about low)
Legacy 2.5i sedan: 17.5"
Impreza RS sedan: 20" (surprise, much higher than the Legacy)
Outback XT: 22"
Tribeca: 26"
So the Outback's seat is about 4.5" higher up than the regular Legacy, and the Tribeca's is yet another 4" higher than the Outback. More than I thought, actually.
I had placed the seat in a comfortable position for me, so YMMV as they say. But even at the lowest point the Tribeca cleared 25", and you could get it up to past 27" or so if you put the power seat all the way up.
The Forester is slightly higher than the Outback, the CR-V is higher still. It depends on your own height, but with a 30" inseam I basically can sit on the Forester's seat without climbing up or sinking down. I sprained my back last year and it was excrutiatingly *painful* to lower myself into my wife's Legacy, but I could easily get in the Forester.
Try it out, you may be taller or shorter than me. Anything taller than a Forester and you'll be climbing up into the seat unless you are Shaq. A shorter person may prefer something a little lower, like an Outback. My step mom is 5'2" and she loves her Outback.
-juice
Just another opinion.
TB
My wife really loves the Forester, but I always think that, because it's a small car, it must also be too low. It's a perception thing.
i knew you would see it my way eventually.
i guess it is part of the maturing process.
tidester, host
As for the possibility of a third row....yes, it should be optional (and on all trim levels, not just the top level trim like Toyota Canada did with the new Rav-4)...and yes, I agree it wouldn't be too comfortable for larger folks on a cross-country trip, but that's not it's purpose. It's for a couple extra kids or small adults for occasional short-hop use. A family of 3 like us doesn't need a full-size minivan for day-to-day use, but would like the flexibility of being able to carry a couple of extra passengers when Grandma & Grampa or other friends & family come to visit....beats having to take 2 cars.
Other than that, they're not gonna get a very big audience. Odd.
varmint: tell us more about this HCCI...
-juice
http://blogs.edmunds.com/.ee90390
-juice
What makes you say something like this? AFAIK Honda isn't losing ground to anyone. Sales were up for February. HMC is at a 52 week high.
You seem enamored with Mitsubishi. That automaker along with most of the others you mentioned (you seriously think Suzuki is competition for Honda) are not who Honda worries about.
When was the last time Honda hurried up an intro because they were "losing ground" to the competition? I think never but I'm sure someone can correct me.
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005/10/honda_making_si.html
Based on what I've read in other articles, the difficulties involved in developing a mass-production HCCI include the following.
1. Making it run smoothly.
2. Making it run well at low rpms.
3. Making it run well at high rpms.
4. Costs.
Honda seems to have addressed 1 and 2. The same casting method they developed for the 2.2L diesel unit probably takes care of #1. Not sure how they worked out #2.
HCCI engines are relatively strong in the mid-range. Combining it with IMA as suggested in the article makes sense. The electric motor can provide boost in both the low and high rpm situations.
As for Mitsubishi, I like the design of the new Outlander and will certainly check it out, though as a manufacturer, they're certainly not at the top of my list.
I'm excited that the press preview for the CR-V is in July and look forward to a vehicle that, in typical Honda fashion, will probably leapfrog the competition once again.
BTW, FWIW, CR-V sales were down 7.8% in Feb. and 8% YTD according to the figures on TOV, so, while Honda in general is on a tear, the CR-V is starting to show it's age.
Honda is known for controlling ignition and valve timing so closely, so it's interesting to see them trying to deal with compression ignition, which is very hard to control. I'd love to see what those pistons look like.
Back to the NY Show and the 07 models, I'm still surprised they're not at least showing a teaser concept of the next CR-V sooner than July. The Model X came out long before the Element arrive. Then again it had no predecessor.
-juice
That may be the key, juice. I'm not 100% sure, but seems to me there were no autoshow unveils of the current CR-V when it came out (2002). On the other hand, Honda (Acura) is showing an MDX prototype, so who knows?!
-juice
The same would apply for several other models. The Odyssey was so well-known it did not require any extra buzz. Neither did the 2003 Accord or 2001 Civic.
When a model falters, they release a show car which generates some buzz about the very area where the vehicle is most criticized. In short, they'd have a specific goal. The last Civic was bashed for not being sporty enough. So Honda released an Si concept car to counter that perception and boost the image of the new vehicle. The old 3.5RL was such an old car, they released information about it's high-tech features to build extra buzz. The MDX is 6 years old and so it gets an early boost for similar reasons.
Obviously, any completely new vehicle is going to need some buzz and has no current model to harm. So that's a given.
Looks like Acura's press release is scheduled for the 12th at 10:30am. That'll be the MDX Concept we expect.
The news is that Honda has one on the 13th, 10:40am, for the...drum roll please....Element Concept!
Sounds like you were right, they must've felt the CR-V didn't need the attention, so they gave the floor to the Element.
-juice
Those make it heavier than the CR-V, and even though Honda said they'd beef them up big-time, crash tests showed they still sacrifice safety. It's just too big an opening right where the vulnerable passengers are.
I think that and the 4 passenger capacity have made more than a few buyers shy away.
Then again, they don't want it to overlap with the CR-V too much. It has not cannibalized CR-V sales, and I'm sure that's just how Honda wants it.
Maybe keep the cladding, the two-tone, the wipe-down cargo area, but make a few concessions to make it more practical for more than 2 passengers.
I dunno, sales are OK, they probably won't change it much.
-juice
There's no real reason to stretch it, add seats, alter the doors, or make any other major changes. The Element is 3 years into it's product cycle. It is intentionally a low volume vehicle. So major changes would just nullify profitability only a few years before it gets killed or redesigned.
Right now, I'm looking at the 22nd as the day I'll be in NY. The news will be all over the place by then. But maybe I can catch some good pics or video.
Although, I think if you and I ever met in person, the world would come to an end. :surprise:
-juice
The rear 3/4 "Stream-type" window has been taped up and diguised to look like a conventional window, according to the guy who too the pics (in Australia).
True Market Value
Holdback
Incentives & Rebates
Honda CR-V: Prices Paid & Buying Experience
Lots more info here:
Buying Tips
Oh yeah, it's all free. :shades:
Steve, Host
Try http://www.carsdirect.com
Consumer reports is good guide, but the dealer is not obliged to follow it. So to me, it is a waste of money. I can guess what the dealer paid just as well as the consumer reports does. Besides, the dealer has to make a profit to stay afloat. So, they are not going to sell you a car if they are not making any money on it.
Good luck.
-juice