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As I mentioned way back last week, my wife and I chose between the Subaru and the CR-v just two weeks ago. The Subaru models (Forester and Outback) lost to the CR-v primarily on roominess and comfort. My wife loved the "school bus feel" of the driver's position in the CR-v. She says her field of vision seems larger and she feels less like potential tractor/trailer fodder. Bear in mind, she's moving from a minivan to a miniute, so her recent driving experiences definitely would have affected her perception.
I liked both Subaru models and the Honda. I thought the Subarus handled exceptionally well. I'd be happy to own them all, but could only afford one new vehicle this month...
BTW, I have checked out the videos of the CRVIX road trips and they're quite entertaining. Although some of your fellow CR-V owners seem to be doing just fine in the light off-road trails, I can see a few situations where a permanent AWD system and a limited rear slip differential (or even better, four wheel traction control + low range) would be extremely beneficial. No doubt this has been discussed a length amongst yourselves, especially since the top end CR-V in Japan has VSA.
I noticed that because the front wheels need to slip before enough pressure builds up for the rear ones kick in, many times at low speeds they would get bogged down by an obstacle, with clouds of dust from the spinning wheels. To get over it, they would need to back up and take a run at the object to try to use their momentum to the advantage (risking a tire puncture). However, it's entertaining watching nontheless. :-).
Drew
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Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
$20 a fill up, ouch (i noticed that expedition's bill was $45, that was at the pump before me), i used to do $12 a fill up in my civic. if i drive sensibly (no hard accelerations, let the transmition shift at 3000 rpm) i usually (in the month that i have owned the cr-v) get about 360 miles per fill up, that is with a/c on, some city traffic, some highway stop and go, and just highway driving at 70 mph. i used to get 35 mpg in the 99 civic with vtec, according to my calculations i get 24 mpg in the brand new cr-v. i know from the previous new honda experiences that the gas mileage usually increases after 10k, miles. looking forward to that.
It must be a load of fun trying to get over a wet, moss-covered tree trunk, or up a rock-strewn, sandy river bed.
But here's the funny part - there IS a lawn mower forum! It's under SUVs, look for Your Mower or your SUV - which spends more time off-road. It's hilarious!
The CR-V's reliability scores in Consumer Reports are enviable, fantastic even. But don't overlook the fact that the Forester also scores well. It also has a better overall rating and better customer satisfaction (as measured by CR). It also knocked the CR-V out of the top spot to win the JD Power APEAL award for 2000.
-juice
I use the Trooper now to get me and my family to trail heads and to put-in and take-outs for canoe trips. Lots of dirt road use on good to fair roads. The put-ins and take-outs are a different story. These are usually steep, deeply rutted tracks that require me to put the trooper into 4WD to get out of.
Power should not be an issue became the Trooper puts out only an anemic 99 HI and it works well enough even with two boats plus gear.
Anyone out there putting their CR- to such use? Do you think the CR- is up to it or do I need to go to a more off road oriented SUV like the 4runner? Any imput apprecieated.
I'm very happy with Subaru. You mentioned that you have a '92 Subaru. I suggest you look at the new Subarus. They're light years better than what you have.
I'm interested in the '02 CRV, to see what improvements have been made. I have no interest in the current CRV. As I said, I'm mainly lurking in your CRV neighborhood to get info on the new '02 model.
Bob
Bob
OK, show of hands, who would be stupid enough to drive a CR-V over a moss covered log or up a sandy, rock strewn river bed. Just as I thought, the pizza delivery guy in the back.
Tintin, see if you can borrow one and give it a try. They can do more than most will give them credit for but let's not go comparing them to jeeps by any means.
Isn't part of the U in SUV (part of the "S", too) about the ability to handle off road chores with ease?
What happened?
I know the CR-V is not a hard core SUV, but it does have some off-road ability. Just need to know where the line is, and what all of you have been able to do with your CR-Vs.
Thanks
What you're describing isn't all that tough, but the main obstacles would be: traction (good tires) and clearance (for deep ruts). The tires on the CR-V are pavement biased, so you may want to upgrade those. The clearance shoudn't be a problem. I wouldn't recommend towing through these conditions, though.
Make sure you shop the Nissan Xterra and Jeep Liberty as well. Both are much more competant off-road, but may be overkill for your purposes.
Beatfarmer - Ummm... Me. Coincidentally, I was a pizza guy through college. :-) I've been over mossy deadfall. I've tackled wet rocks, muddy slopes, and slimely-like-snot water holes (pardon the gross description, but that's the one that fits). I've been off-road on snowmobile trails with a 6" cover of fresh powder over packed snow and ice. And I've had the oportunity to use the ole starter-powered push over a few rocks. Thus far, the only time I've had trouble was when I was still inexperienced with the CR-V and forced RT4WD to kick in too hard while traversing the side of a wet gravel slope. When the rear wheels kicked in hard, they too lost grip and I slid sideways down the slope. It was only a few feet, but I was sufficiently freaked out. ;-)
The CR-V is no mountain goat, but I've had lots of fun by taking it slow and being smart.
Tires DO make a big difference. They can help with both clearance and traction.
Trouble is, you need torque to drive bigger tires and clearance from rubbing; both of which the CRV is light on.
Keep on truckin'!
Thanks
Automatics are actually easier off-road, though (and I'm a huge fan of true manuals).
You could always get bigger, knobbier tires. Weren't there some photos with a CR-V wearing 225/70s? I imagine that could make it.
-juice
I'd be more inclined to stay with the same size, but with a true M&S tread. A tire with a "LT" (light truck) rating would probably be more resistant to punctures than a car tire; but that may be overkill, and probably wouldn't handle as well either.
Bob
Off road tires are noisy, though, and don't last, but they'd surely grip better on tougher trails, if that's what you needed.
The gearing would actually quiet the engine down a bit a higher speeds (since it would rev lower), but you would effectively lose leverage (i.e. torque).
-juice
Personally, I think I could justify creating additional CR-V topics in the minivan and station wagon categories, but we'd get even more quizzical reactions there.
Julie: I strongly disagree with that dealer. The XTerra's V6 has good low-end torque, but it actually runs out of steam rather quickly, and performs poorly on the highway and at high speeds. The CR-V will pretty much keep up with one and yield better mileage.
There is a supercharger option now, but it requires premium fuel so buy stock in Exxon if you get one to offset the highest fuel costs in this segment.
More importantly, the XTerra is all truck. Drive one. Bouncy ride, major lean in turns, poor handling, and bad gas mileage. Very cool image, though.
Wave runners are light. Get an aluminum trailer. In fact, you can rent a small utility trailer for the move if you have a hitch, just be aware of the 1000 pound towing limit.
-juice
The best case scenario would be to buy the CR-V for daily use. Then go to E-bay and purchase a set of stock steel rims (people are always upgrading their rims, so the steel ones can be had pretty cheap). Now go out and buy some off-road tires for those rims. Switch 'em out when necessary.
This probably seems a bit expensive and pesky, but compare it to the extra purchase cost of the Xterra or Liberty. Also factor in costs for repairs and extra gas. It's actually quite a bargain.
I say put aggressive 225/70s on the stock rims, and then Plus One to a 16" set with high performance tread (for pavement). Best of both worlds.
Once in a while you'll find 16" alloy rims on sale for $75 or so at Discount Tire Direct, and that's about what you'd pay for steelies.
-juice
I'll let the Xterra experts speak for their own.
With regard to the CR-V, you have these items to consider:
A CR-V will easily handle a wave-runner. However, if you soon discover the joys of boating in a "real boat", the CR-V may not be enough to handle the toy that you upgrade to.
I've never met a hill or trail that the CR-V cannot climb. It's just a matter of how many RPMs you are prepared to listen to while you do it. There have been times when I've had to downshift to 4th (my '99 EX is a blessed manual) and rev the engine to 4,000 rpms to maintain 50mph going up steep hills in the White Mountains. Can it do it? Sure, no problem. Is it quiet? Nope. Take a good test drive and see if it bothers you.
Last bit. The CR-V seats are actually quite comfortable. You may find that sitting "bolt upright" is a great improvement. It just takes a few trips to get accustomed to.
Bob
Jac76 - I forgot to mention. I also have a 65lbs dog. She fits fine in the back. So does her 85lbs brother. Both are long legged greyhounds. Since you've been following this thread for a while, you probably know the rest...
Seriously, though, if you had a 2nd set of rims, you'd only need them for those trips. Plus you wouldn't have to go that extreme (those are far bigger than 225/70R15).
-juice
A little smaller than the monster mudders (I did not know they made the "monster" mudders that small) shown.
You could/should get a decent off road type tread for one set for off road and winter use, and maybe 225/70R15 in maybe a more "sporty/touring" tread pattern for sunny weather and highway use.
Juice, I've heard from many sources that the X is uncomfortable and handles poorly, but I didn't find that to be the case. Maybe we didn't drive it long enough, but we took some pretty hard, fast turns and didn't feel like we were going to roll over. To each his own, right?
My gut is telling me that the CRV will probably be better in the long run, but I want to be really sure, you know? I'm sure other issues will arise in the car hunt, so I'll be sure to refer to your expertise.
Thanks a million, and if you have any other suggestions, I'd love to hear them.
rrrrrrrr! rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!
;-)
Even if you do opt for off-road tires (the swampers are big-time OVERKILL), also buy a "come along" and a decent tow strap. Combined, they ought to cost you less than $50. One of the advantages of having a CR-V is the fact that it's rather light weight. While off-roading in the Allegheny National Forest, we had a newbie get stuck. Four of us grabbed the tow strap and hauled him back onto the road. Two of us could've done the job. With four on the pulling end of the strap, we almost toppled over. It moved so easily. :-)
Beatfarmer - The SoCal group is going to the sequoia forests soon. Maybe you can find a nice big, mossy log in there. ;-)
I just love to pull this pic out every now and then. :-) Someone over at the CR-V IX just reminded me of it.
Anyone remember "Space 1999"?
If you're comfortable with the CR-V, that's what counts. We're all shaped differently, after all.
My suggestion, if you are hesitant, is to try the alternatives. Test drive a RAV4, Forester, Santa Fe, and Tribute. Then drive the CR-V again. If you still like it, you'll always know it was the best available at the time of your purchase, and have no regrets.
squatch: and here I though you'd like that one!
-juice
I was thinking you meant something like this
That's my friend Jim and his "toy". You should see it now with the bigger tires.
Space 1999, now you are dating yourself.
-juice
Actually, I would need a rock placed at the very bottom to help with the approach angle, but otherwise I could make it that far up the rock with my CR-V. Basically, you just need to get the front end clear, then push it up the wall with your rear tires. Any farther would require divine intervention or the generous application of high explosives.
Sasquatch - I was thinking of a terrible movie from the late 70's called "Delta Force" or something like that. It featured a bunch of suped up motor bikes and sand rails with guns and plastic armor stapled onto them.
I can understand why you wouldn't like the Super G.U.T.S. CR-V, though. Manly vehicles are supposed to have exposed rust spots and big dents. :-)
Bob
If you rigged the CR-V to go 50/50, my concern would be that the system is not designed to be engaged full time, and it could overheat.
The Forester is 50/50 all the time, so the center viscous coupling only needs to act when there is slippage, hence it's not heating up all the time.
The Escape and Tribute use a Ford tranny, basically the same CD4E unit used in the Mazda 626 4 cylinder and Ford Contour. It's a poorly designed unit that has failed in so many 626s that it's become a punch line (do not take my word for it, please read the 626 topic).
Two funny things - first, the 5 speed 626s and the V6's automatic are Mazda units, and they are perfectly reliable. Only the Ford unit is problematic.
Second, the Tribute and Escape are much heavier and have engines with far more torque. Imagine asking a tranny that is struggling to handle its current load an extra 500 pounds and 73 lb-ft of torque.
-juice
The Forester has an center diffy, so it can operate full time.
-juice
Knowing my friend, he probabally landed there!
I have linked this discussion into that folder, but it will always reside here in SUVs.
Looking forward to meeting everyone!
KarenS
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