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There's nothing really wrong with being derivative, IMO, so long as it is admitted.
My sister-in-law drive a giant egg called the Citroen Xsara Picasso.
So, so French.
Two groups of people both say ride quality is bad and that is not a "problem" with the suspension for a car that aspires to be a luxury/prestige car? Or any car for that matter.
BTW, for the more objective followers of this forum, this quote does not appear on the website, at least not that I can find. Don't ask why, but it is in the magazine.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Here's another quote from CR, talking about the new Genesis coupe:
"Bumps punch into the Genesis Coupe's as rubbery slams. The ride is stiff and body motions are abrupt. Even the highway ride is jittery and unsettled. Road noise permeates the cabin . . ."
Just because CR does not refer to these as 'problems' does not mean that they are not a problem.
Why else would CR mention them if they did not see them as such?
To my way of thinking and others here also, this is the third latest
vehicle released by Hyundai with suspension 'problems.' :lemon:
It'll be interesting to see if Hyundai is able to get it right when they release their newest creation, the Equus.
"The car does not have a "problem" those reviewers, like you, just have an "opinion". Capish ??"
Call it their opinion or whatever, it still is a problem or they would not mention it, would they? :sick:
Isn't it strange how many of us "reviewers" have these negative "opinions" about Hyundai suspensions? :confuse:
I find it strange how many here have anything to say about these models when they don't even own one! :surprise:
Everyone who owns a Genesis please sound off as to how you like or dislike the car overall.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Well said...
I know I can come here and rave about how good genesis but when time will come to "vote" with my money I will go and buy a used Lexus or MB.
we all have different faces to show to different people...just human nature!!!
That's funny Juice - my wife thought that was a bit of a problem with the Sienna too when we were shopping vans 10 years ago. Too "plush" for us.
And a web site review is easier to edit than correcting a magazine after putting one's foot in one's mouth.
That pretty much sums up my driving experience over the past couple of days with a Mazda3 in LA. One of the worst-riding cars I know. (I've driven them several times.) But great handling. CR and other reviewers have noted the firm ride and road noise of the Mazda3. But they also praise it for its handling. And it is considered by most pundits to be one of the best small cars on the market.
So the "problem" with its suspension isn't all that big a deal I guess. I would probably not buy one, because I live in a land of frost-heaved roads, pot-holes, and tar strips. But aside from the stiff, jittery, unsettled ride and road noise, I think it's a great little car. Just not for me.
I suppose if it were the Hyundai3, we'd have an entire discussion dedicated to its problematic suspension.
LOL well said, Donna!!!
Well, if the State version Equus has the same suspension as the car I tried here, comfort maniacs are gonna love it, sreiously.
Good for you! Instead of continually harping, carping, and whining, just buy something you are satisfied with.
Personally, I can't afford a used MB, (due to frequent mechanical problems and high repiar costs, a new one is probably cheaper in the long run) but a used Toyota-Lexus is almost as good a value as a new Genesis. I would like to see Toyota-Lexus, MB, and BMW step up to the plate and match Hyundai's 60/100K warranty. I would then consider buying one.
so you think Hyundai is 'stepping up to the plate'. Really? Couldn't be a function of that this is the only way they can sell their cars, now could it?
Give me a break, if Hyundai had even close to the same name and brand reputation as especially those J3 mfgrs - . they wouldn't be offering the warranty either. Besides which, on the luxury side of things, folks that can afford those kind of vehicles are a whole lot less concerend with warranties of questionable value than they are with other things....
Good for you! Instead of continually harping, carping, and whining, just buy something you are satisfied with.
The statement above was a "figure of speech"...I should have added
Now look in the mirror and see if you have (ever) done this.....
Oh well...
back to cars...I think Hyundai is/will do the same to Toyota/honda what toyota honda did to big 3...history has a way of repeating itself....
We all can discuss Hyundai is a luxury or not...in the end the company (I think) is pretty happy as
Its making Money
Gaining market share
Has good products in pipeline (I think)
Has a loyal customer base.....look at this forum where anything agains Hyundai is sacrosanct
Has a good current products.
So not all reviewers agree, which is why we call it an opinion.
they don't even own one
This thread focuses on the Genesis, and the luxury segment, so owning a FWD Hyundai that isn't in the same segment hardly makes you a Genesis expert.
Have you even driven one? :confuse:
Really? Then why do luxury brands have longer warranties than the "regular" brands?
Examples:
Nissan: 3/36 bumper-to-bumper, 5/60 powertrain
Infiniti: 4/60 bumper-to-bumper, 6/70 powertrain
Toyota: 3/36 bumper-to-bumper, 5/60 powertrain
Lexus: 4/50 bumper-to-bumper, 6/70 powertrain
Honda: 3/36 bumper-to-bumper, 5/60 powertrain
Acura: 4/50 bumper-to-bumper, 6/70 powertrain
If folks who can afford luxury cars are less concerned with warranties, why go to all the trouble and expense of offering longer warranty coverage on the luxury brands?
:confuse: Unless that is the only way those companies can sell their cars is by offering a longer warranty?
Give me a break, if Hyundai had even close to the same name and brand reputation as especially those J3 mfgrs - . they wouldn't be offering the warranty either. Besides which, on the luxury side of things, folks that can afford those kind of vehicles are a whole lot less concerend with warranties of questionable value than they are with other things....
Give everyone a break. A 10/60/100 warranty is a GOOD thing. I could afford to buy a half dozen low mileage MB's, but I would feel like a fool when they started falling apart. I've been there with German cars. They're very expensive to repair, and they need repairing often. Why try to save money by buying a used MB when it will cost you almost as much in the long run as a new one with a warranty?
I do recommend low mileage Toyota-Lexus. They are a little over priced, but they're way more reliable than MB and BMW. A little cheaper to fix, too.
* MUCH BETTER THAN AVERAGE routine handling
* BETTER THAN AVERAGE emergency handling
* AVERAGE ride
Impressive results, and not a "problem" at all given a sports coupe's mission.
The funny thing is the routine handling score beat the Camaro's, so they agree with Motorweek that the Hyundai handles better.
Think an "Average" ride is a bad score? It tied the Camaro (V8 tested).
Funny - you may it sound all bad. Did you skip that part?
I can't imagine the statement about used MB costing the same over time as a new one. We're talking $20K+ right?
I like the Genesis. Really nice car for Hyundai. I've spent decades admiring MB and am glad to be at a point in my life to be able to get one. Maybe my kid can have the same admiration with Hyundai when she's my age.
Electricals and electronics? Yeah German cars are as reliable as glass slippers.
Powertrain? Nope, when properly taken care of those engines last forever.
Price for repair and maintenance? I won't say anything
The class to which the Equus aspires is one that is fairly conservative as to exterior appearance. For example, they have few, if any, flashy colors and very moderate use of chrome and “bling” on the exteriors.
Eliminate the license plate bump out, appendages under headlights, bright chrome wheels and hood ornament. Maybe, remove some of the other chrome trim. This is not a 1958 Buick.
The backseat amenities should be an option as many people will not want them. It is doubtful that families with teenagers or empty nesters will want to spend a lot of money on them.
The power door system is probably of little value to most people and may even be dangerous based on reports I have read.
Any radar cruise control should have an off switch so that standard cruise control can be used. The systems are just not that good.
Above all, fix the suspension and ride.
Equus holds a lot of promise and Hyundai is definitely on the way up. It's biggest advantage will be the lower cost. Having looked at MB E, Lexus LS and Audi A6 recently, Hyundai has more for less, but in "badge power," it won't win and wouldn't even with a separate luxury brand and for many in this class, that's what counts.
The Genesis is still on my short list, but may wait for the second year Equus. LS and A6 are pretty much off the list now.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
When reviews are filled with praise and no complaints or critics it's a sign that they're not being serious IMO.
Critics are good.
When reviews are filled with praise and no complaints or critics it's a sign that they're not being serious IMO.
Critics are good.
True, I agree 100%. That's a large part of the reason for car forums. However when someone complains and makes their complaint perfectly clear, that's enough, don't you think? When they keep harping endlessly on the same thing over and over, on every forum in the world, it makes me doubt their objectivity, and/or think they are taking some manner of revenge. If you repeat a half truth 1000 times, it can easily be mistaken for the whole truth. I don't think we should encourage or enable anyone to do that.
Happy Labor Day folks! BBQ is on the menu!
And if you consider comments that don't agree with your position to be "jumping" on you, well, that's your problem, sir. Maybe if you tone down the snipes, e.g. people who don't agree with you "can't learn", it would be a more pleasant discussion and we could all agree or disagree respectfully with each other.
What I found interesting was that there was an almost equal number of owners who said the ride needed to be firmer/sportier! One said the ride was softer than his wife's Lexus (which he traded for the Genesis). Others said it was softer than BMW and MB, or in between Lexus and BMW.
What I take from this sample is that the vast majority of people who actually bought a Genesis sedan find the ride quality just fine for them. Maybe they drove the car before they bought it, to make sure the ride was acceptable. And maybe other buyers who drove the Genesis found the ride to be too firm (or soft even!) for their taste and passed, for that or other reasons.
Hyundai has an interesting challenge, if they are in fact going to adjust the suspension tuning on the Genesis sedan for 2010. They need to do just enough to please the owners/buyers who find the ride too firm, while not making it too soft.
I recommend that anyone interested in buying the Genesis sedan read through those owner reviews. They are quite useful in terms of what the owners like, and what they would change. One of the most-often mentioned improvements was adding a cooled passenger seat (which is an odd omission on a car like this, I think). And some owners like the car just fine, but would like the dealer experience improved or the Genesis to be sold under its own brand--topics we have discussed extensively here.
Once the new front-drive Hyundai coupe is introduced, that also frees up the Genesis coupe to move to a new brand, as the entry-level model ala Integra and G20.
Yep, that 2011 Sonata is pretty sharp, I think. I am wondering if it will sound the death knell for the Azera? I think Hyundai could sell those new, fully-loaded Sonatas for the price of today's Azera, if the quality is there.
The real reason Toyota started their Lexus division in the U.S. was so that they could raise prices and increase profit margins. A very savvy move that Hyundai would do well to copy.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I agree. Though sometimes people have the tendency to spread complaints to the whole universe for reasons I dont really understand myself, but it's out there and it happens. I do make an exception, if someone's asked, then it's only natural to answer. Just keep it clear and go easy on the temper when making the comments.
A word on the upcoming Tucson: while I'll reserve most comments until I try it myself, I can comment on the looks: better but still off. I can see the resemblance to CX-7 and some Ford products right away, and not in a good way.
In comparison, the SantaFe has eery resemblance to VW Touareg and Infiniti FX. However the result is good looking and nicely proportioned. Tucson isn't doing a good job so far, though Veracruz is even worse.
On the other hand, none of my attackers has ever contradicted what the reviewers said in their articles. NEVER!
Make a less than positive post and you get attacked. Never fails.
Why should I not be allowed to express my opinion, especitally when my detrators express theirs endlessly about minutae?
Appreciate Backy spending time to look at all owner posts, but as most of us have learned, that is not the most objective source. The posts are generally too new and many people use them to confirm their purchase decision was a good one. I did too when I first bought my Azera-read my 2007 posts. Out of all the Hyundais purchased, how many millions of owners never post on Edmunds?
BTW, this topic is about whether or not Hyundai is ready for the luxury market, not just about Azeras.
True,,, but professional reviews can also be taken out of context to validate any complaint. Backy has pointed out clear examples of it lately.
Bob, we all know you are bitterly disappointed with your Azera's ride. I sincerely wish we could make it better for you. Since that's impossible to do, maybe you can do something for us.
Happy Labor Day!