Volkswagen Beetle Steering and Suspension Problems

reddroverr · May 2006

You got me. Logically, I would think it wouldn't be a problem to maintain speed on non-hill surfaces. But, I don't have any hard facts.

I searched around and the nissan versa has a six speed and has

122 hp and weighs 2779 at the most.

How does that compare to your rig?

chrisducati · May 2006

cdoc asked
"Does anyone know why the Yaris isn't offered as a 5-door (4 door + liftback) here? It's available in Europe and Canada, and probably everywhere else. Could it be so that it doesn't compete with the xA, which is available only in the US?"

I would guess Toyota does not want to cut into xA sales being that the xA is a five door.

cdoc · May 2006

The xA has 105 hp (with the newest method of measuring). Could less than 20 hp make that much of a difference?

cdoc · May 2006

I've heard rumors (are they true?) that the '07 xA will be the 5-door Yaris.

jdgriswald · May 2006

One can only hope. I've seen comments on Scionlife from Scion dealers inferring the same thing. Nothing specific, just comments like "you won't recognize the RS 3.0 xA"
If it's true, I'm all over it like a fat kid on a cookie.

Mr_Shiftright · May 2006

That's about the same power to weight ratio. I haven't driven the Versa, so I don't know. Also don't know if 6th gear in the Versa is an overdrive or not.

Just priced out a new Yaris with comparable equipment to the xA and it is about $1,700 more in the 4-door sedan version with the same equipment as I got on the xA

So I'm not getting what the Yaris is a better deal than the xA. Same basic engine, same basic amenities...what am I missing here?

brucepadgett · May 2006

I tested both the xA and the Yaris sedan yesterday. The Yaris had a noticeably smoother ride. Whether that's worth $1700 is your call of course. While the Yaris is new and thus 1st-gen difficulties haven't been reported yet, there have been stories about current xA's having clutch and charcoal cannister problems. Cruise around these boards and toyotanation.com for varied opinions.

cdoc · May 2006

I thought the Yaris has been available in other countries for at least one year in its present form, and many years before that as what we knew as the Echo. Also, the engine hasn't changed. So I don't know what difficulties might arise.

The major difference between the xA and the Yaris is more luggage space (for the Yaris sedan), the cute factor and lower price (base model liftback), and slightly economy on gas (weaker 5th speed). But I agree: is it worth the extra money for comparable equipped cars?

Mr_Shiftright · May 2006

Well at this point all I can say is that I don't see any significant difference between the two, aside from perhaps a trunk space and one's subjective view of aesthetics pro or con.

iluvmysephia1 · May 2006

the xA I have test drove but not the Yaris sedan. It is basically aesthetics that would have me place the Yaris sedan slightly above the Scion xA for "gotta have-itis."

The 2007 Scion xA has been rumoured to be the same as the 2007 Toyota Yaris 5-door liftback. That, especially but not limited to the Scion xA RS 3.0, will be a rig I have to see and test drive!

Having said that, I sure liked the 2006 Scion xA test drive and one could always just slap some nice wheels on one to get most of the RS effect, eh?

Mr_Shiftright · May 2006

You can just make an RS any way you like, and probably for less money. That is essentially what I'm doing, over time.

What the xA needs is:

rear sway bar

front strut bar

lowering springs (slightly, only 20mm, to get rid of the empty space in the wheel wells

sport muffler

better wheels and tires

That should set you back...oh, I dunno... $2,000 tops?

If you want to get completely nuts you can install a Blitz turbo for $2,995.

chrisducati · May 2006

I would think the new xA would not be just a five door Yaris hatch. I think the company would probably want different styling for the two companies. I think the Toyota Ractis would be a better replacement for the xA.
It uses the Yaris/xA chassis.
Take a look.
http://www.autoscoops.be/autoforum/viewtopic.php?t=11170

cdoc · May 2006

That is one funky car. It reminds me of the Fit.

Mr_Shiftright · May 2006

It makes an xA look almost attractive.

iluvmysephia1 · May 2006

the Ractis tall wagon or the Yaris hatch 5-door for their new-gen Scion xA. Hard to tell which one they'll pick(if either of them)but does anyone know a timeline that they'll let everyone know about the '07 Scion xA design?

duck68137 · May 2006

I'm not sure what the Yaris has going for it over the XA.
Not only is a comparably equipped Yaris more expensive, but it also has less room inside.
Yaris Front Headroom = 38.8
XA Front Headroom = 39.6
Yaris Rear Headroom = 36.7
XA Rear Headroom = 38.8
Yaris Front Hiproom = 49.8
XA Front Hiproom = 54.6
Yaris Rear Hiproom = 50.1
XA Rear Hiproom = 53.4

ghulet · May 2006

I'm guessing the VAST majority of consumers of xAs or Yaris are buying them as urban commuters, or second cars. Some may be buying them as long-distance commuters (as in long distances to and from work on highways), in which case I could POSSIBLY see a Yaris hatch or basic sedan being preferable to the xA. Once you start loading up either Yaris with options (provided you could even find one to your liking at this point), I don't see how you could justify the extra money (one buyer here equipped his Yaris hatch to $15600 MSRP, so $1500-2000) versus the xA for the mere possibility of saving 2mpg. I have an easier time with the annoying highway RPM, ride (which I think is more imaginary) or aesthetic preference arguments, but from a pure 'financial' standpoint, no.

cdoc · May 2006

I agree with everything you said. I bought my xA as our second car (traded in a '92 Civic two months ago), and we use it as a commuter car and for running errands around town. We much prefer our other car for highway driving, especially for long trips. I've found that the xA's high RPM on the highway becomes a problem above 65 mph. In other words, if I obey the speed limits there is no problem at all - and I use less gas in the process (the xA seems to be most economical when driving below 60 mph - I average 35-37 mpg overall). All in all, I'm glad I bought the xA and didn't wait for the Yaris.

beantown · May 2006

I'm glad I'm not the only one who has noticed that the xA has impressive interior dimensions. It beats the Yaris, Corolla, and Prius in most if not all categories and is even comparable to a new Camry. It makes me wonder why in some "professional reviews", they say the car can be cramped for larger individuals; yet the same reviewers say interior dimensions are fine in these other cars.....

It makes me wonder if they just look at the outside of the xA and never bother to get in the back seat.

testshopper · May 2006

The Yaris engine has lower emissions than the Xa (link title). More horsepower, less emissions, better fuel economy, maybe the 2007 Xa will show some improvement.

canuck785 · July 2006

have you consider the rio5 hatch? really pretty car in my opinion! comes with enough features too and a great warranty. the new nissan versa isn't bad either and is around the same price as the xA, yaris, rio, etc. i am shopping too and there are a lot of things to consider before buying!!! i have 3 dogs, (3 labs, and one is 95 lbs )i just dont see them riding in a sedan!!!

i always had hatch or SUV and the sedan never appealed to me at all. that is a preference and it depends on what you need. i do like the yaris but it is too bad it only comes with 2 doors hatch...(same as new hyundai accent hatch) i think 4 doors is just more pratical when you have dogs and kids...so annoying to have to move the front seat all the time for ppl to get in and out :mad:

jdgriswald · July 2006

Not sure where you got your numbers, but those don't match the Toyota site.

Headroom is (front/rear): Y 39.4/37.9 - xA 39.6/38.8
Shoulder: Y 51.4/50.4 - xA 50.9/50.4
Hip: Y 50.0/46.7 - xA 54.6/53.4
Leg Room: Y 40.3/33.8 - 41.3/37.6

A lot of this is due to the fact that the Yaris is 4" shorter than the xA. From experience, the Yaris feels like it has more rear legroom than the xA. Don't know exactly where they measure, that's just how it felt.

beantown · July 2006

JD: the difference in your numbers vs. duck's could come from the sedan measurements vs. the liftback measurements perhaps. Either way, the xA comes out on top by a significant margin in all but the shoulder measurements.

krus2 · July 2006

Though they have the same engine, the Yaris's tuning seems to allow for significantly cleaner/fewer emissions than xA.

yaris: http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/22750.shtml
xA: http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/21778.shtml

Anyone know more about this?

autoboy16 · July 2006

The Rictis is ok and love the sunroof! The thing is that the XA is better IMO. Sure the Xa doesn't have a sunroof but thats only if you didn't go for the RS 2.0. That is the Xa to have.

-Cj :P

Mr_Shiftright · July 2006

You can add a nice roof for maybe $1,000 or so.

psion_wedge · September 2006

I test-drove the Yaris sedan & xA; I chose the xA. The Yaris has no tachometer. (I use that to improve my gas mileage by trying whenever possible to keep it below 3000 rpm.) It also has no power features unlike the xA. As for looks, I generally don't like hatchbacks, but the xA I like, especially w/ the spoiler ($385 add-on). For $260 you can get the iPod-capable radio (control your iPod from the deck & charge the iPod too). Anyway you take it the xA has a great sound system w/ woofers low inside the doors & tweeters by the sideview mirrors. Sure, it handled rough in the breakin period, but improved somewhat (& I guess I got somewhat used to the rougher ride over time, too).
One note about the dealer. Make sure you find the fleet/internet sales dept. at the dealer & only go through them. It should be a more pleasant experience. I was shopping for a Civic first through an internet/fleet dept. & liked the experience but wasn't able to get the car I wanted. So I went to the nearest Toyota dealership. Being low on sleep & food that day I lacked judgment & said "Do you have an internet/fleet sales dept.?" The woman said "Yes" & led me to the regular sales dept. I have spent months returning services I bought when I was tired & gave in to the finance dept. mgr's pitch. Big mistake. Also, I've heard Costco has a program where they have a representative who helps you through the process & can save you considerable money.

fastrunner · October 2006

Last month I purchase a Yaris Hatchback/Liftback (which i love) and mentioned to the Toyota salesman that rumor has it the xA is finished, and there will be no 2007 model. He said they had none on the lot and could not get any more.
It was like he was hiding something about the xA.

Mr_Shiftright · October 2006

They are virtually the same car, so there's nothing to hide really.

tjw1308 · October 2006

They are still making the xA.

However, there will be NO 2007 model xA's (or xB's for that matter), just a continuation of the 06 models until ? (? = possibly the redesign, possibly end of the xA/xB, even our Scion rep. isn't sure yet).

I'd also disagree about it being the same car. Mechanically they are similar (the Yaris/xA), but they differ in: doors (2/4... at least on the Yaris Hatch), standard equipment (xA has more, but for more $$$ to start), ride quality (comfort/sport), gas mileage, and appearance.

They put that 3.5L engine in everything at Nissan... but it doesn't make em the same now does it?

T

Mr_Shiftright · October 2006

why would gas mileage be any different? It's the same drivetrain---and the appearance is just sheet metal. It's the old girl in a new dress pretty much I think.

tjw1308 · October 2006

Gas mileage can differ by big percentages depending on a bunch of factors besides just the block.

And as for the old girl in the pretty dress theory, I'd probably have to agree. After all, I almost bought the old girl in the ugly dress, but DID buy her in the new pretty one

T

Mr_Shiftright · October 2006

I'm getting a consistent 36 mpg on strictly highway, driving around 70 mph. I don't think I will ever do better than 38 mpg. Near as I can tell, that's about the same as a Yaris, give or take 1 mpg.

tjw1308 · October 2006

I'm getting 40+ on the highway. On the whole, I've been getting 38 combined (70%Highway). Even if it's only 10%, it's definitely better than what my co-worker's xA customers have been getting...

T

Mr_Shiftright · October 2006

What speeds do you drive usually? Are you using AC at all?

lhanson · October 2006

That's about what I get with my mt lb Yaris. Never less than 37 in the city and never more that 40 on the highway. Used the air on the highway, but not usually in the city.

tjw1308 · October 2006

"What speeds do you drive usually?"

Umm... never over the limit officer, I SWEAR

Actually I probably average between 70-80 on the highway, depending on traffic.

There is indeed a big difference if I push it much past that though (and I think 65MPH or so is where most people get the 44+ averages from, as I can't seem to break 39). When I had a few miles on it (I have 2500 already lol), I decided I'd see just how BAD I could get on a tank, driving it hard, in the city a lot, etc. so I could have an idea of "worst case". I ended up getting about 32MPG that tank.

It WILL do 100, despite taking a while to get there

I also live in darn near the hottest place on Earth, so my A/C is CONSTANTLY on :P The flip side is, it's flat (relatively), and that definitely effects MPG too.

T

Mr_Shiftright · October 2006

I wonder why you are beating the EPA upper limits by so much? That's at least 10% over EPA optimum. Quite unusual.

tjw1308 · October 2006

The Yaris is rated 34/40, so I'm not too far out of whack. I think driving habits and when you shift (I have a manual and have driven manuals all my life) make a difference.

And if you believe what some of the other (slower) owners have gotten (44+, which I take with a certain grain of salt), the EPA average is the one out of whack (like it is with the Prius lol... My co-worker has one, and only gets around 45 in real world).

Even if the mileage estimates were completely accurate (xA: 32/37 (34.5 combined) vs. Yaris: 34/40 (37 Combined)), the difference would be about 7%.

Small, but interesting none the less

T

Mr_Shiftright · October 2006

7% still seems like too much difference for the same basic car...more like 4% seems probable--which would/could be explained by gearing and aerodynamic differences (if any, I don't know). Yeah, I'd take 44 mpg with a large block of salt...you could do it but not on real roads at real speeds.

nippononly · October 2006

I bet it could be done. I get about 40.5 mpg as a running average covering more than 10K miles now, in my Echo. That's a lighter car with slightly less power, yes, but the Yaris is actually slower than the Echo, so I think it must be geared a little taller for fuel savings. And most of my driving is suburban or into the city, which would lead to reduced fuel economy in my case. When I do go on long trips in the thing, I manage 44-46 mpg or more without trying too hard, and with the A/C running constantly.

The trick, of course, is not to ignore speed limits. Gas mileage is affected greatly by speed. ;-)

But bottom line, I find it easy to believe there are slower drivers out there pulling 44 mpg in the Yaris. They will continue to do so as long as that egg is under the gas pedal...

:-)

tjw1308 · October 2006

I think if I really tried to (and I doubt I ever could for an entire tank), I'd probably be able to get 42 or better on the highway.

It's possible, if for no other reason than I drive with the A/C on constantly, drive fairly aggressively anyway, and STILL got close to 39.

Amazing, but even with gas prices back down a little, I still feel great only having to fill up every 400 miles (and only 11 or so gallons per hehe)...

T

Mr_Shiftright · October 2006

I get 36 mpg driving real fast on the freeway. I'm more than satisfied with that. I'm sure I could hit 40 but it would be very boring for me.

blackyaris2007 · December 2006

I have a black Yaris just put 400 miles on her in 24 hours. Gas mileage awesome. Went 400 miles and tank was on half way mark.

Re the discussion:

The difference is the ride and peppiness in my opinion. I have driven them all and frankly the Scion XA annoyed me. It was slow and loud. I did not like it at all. The first time I drove the Scion XB it was slow. The next one driven two years later (both manuals) was quicker and more responsive but in 05 the Scion XB I drove was slow.

Comparable pound for pound to peppiness, responsiveness and zip based on my test drives has been Yaris to Accent.
Third would be the Aveo. I love the interior design of the Aveo (utilitarian) but the doors feel cheapy to me and the manual was really really sloppy.

The Fit had a hard road feel ride which is typical of Hondas IMO. They just feel more racy and like you are riding next to the road. I don't like that feeling. The Aveo is in between that feel and the soft floating feel of the Toyo.

It is ALL SUBJECTIVE! You have to decide on what makes you comfortable. We have different needs and obviously my impression will be different than someone else's.

Mr_Shiftright · December 2006

You musta got a bad xA. They aren't slow at all...or maybe I got a peppy one. I can leave an xB in the dust and easily keep up with all freeway traffic. Of course, with 1.5 liters, there are limits. If you try to accelerate in the wrong gear, it's not going to happen. You need to keep the revs up on little engines while you shift. Ditto Yaris.

Yaris and xA have the same engine and weigh the same, and have the same HP (or very very close), so there can't be much difference in performance.

blackyaris2007 · December 2006

I know that is what I read re: Scion XA= Yaris re: engine and weight. I felt a difference possibly design. I think the Yaris is more aerodynamic and Scion XA more boxy. Perhaps it is simpler, I like the Yaris much much more.

Mr_Shiftright · December 2006

Sure that's possible. Aerodynamics make a difference certainly, at highway speeds.

bestgpa · February 2007

I had a 2000 Echo which got high 40's in mpg's, but that was after I had bought new tires which, I didn't realize, were fatter. I bragged around town about my 3 trips to daughter's home got 50 mpg records. My new Scion xA showed the distance is shorter by 12%.
Still, the Echo got 41 or 42 mpg compared to 33 on the xA with same engine and stick shift--difference in aerodynamics? trannie?
For gas mileage, get the Yarris (which is, really, the Echo.) But the BASE xA has what my Echo didn't--split rear fold-down seat; elec windows and doors, CD player, and anti-locking brakes. Don't let the dealer tell you the price is fixed. I paid close to $13k; they're around 12k now.

Mr_Shiftright · February 2007

It must be the gearing. My xA can easily walk away from an Echo in terms of acceleration and I can pass trucks at 70-80 mph. Since they have the same HP, and aerodynamics is not a factor in 0-60 times, gearing is the only explanation really between the MPG in an xA and an Echo, don't you think?

bamacar · February 2007

All the magazines report the contrary. The Echo manual was about 0-60 in 8-9 seconds the xA manual is 0-60 in 8.8 -9.8 seconds. With the proper shifts, same engine, and reduced weight, the Echo should be faster. Obviously it would not handle as well though.

The Yaris and xA appear to be about equals in 0-60 times though. Of course, the Yaris gained weight over the Echo to make that race about even.

Volkswagen Beetle Steering and Suspension Problems

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