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GM News, New Models and Market Share

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Comments

  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,923
    That review of the Cruze did read like an advertisement.

    I mean really, $25,000 for a compact car? Inflation has been low the last 6 years, and in 2006 Audi released a luxury compact car that bare bones stripper model started at about that price! The writer is nuts.

    Can't you still get a GTI for that much though? 200 HP and 207lb/ft of torque has to to rip the Cruze to shreds on the straights and the twisties.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,923
    It's easy to get in and out of, and the seats are so thick it's like having a Lazy-boy recliner right in your car.

    I hate to say this, but:

    I can understand picking a car based on the comfortableness of the seats, but you know your OLD and OUT OF SHAPE if your car buying choice is altered by how easy it is to get in and out of.

    It doesn't surprise me that a Buick would cater to the old and out of shape crowd :)
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,855
    No, I have long known GM has work to do, and has made many a goof over the decades. It's on this site, however, that other makes are constantly compared to GM's, but recalls and problems are completely blown over on those makes. I have to post them here. Only good stuff about competing brands can be posted here, for some bizarro reason. It's all about balance.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,671
    > I've vowed never to bring that steaming pile

    And I, for one, appreciate that you don't bring it up repeated.

    And, Fezo, don't tempt him, please!

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,855
    Come on busiris, you're being disingenuous. That's circlew's job!

    The guy clearly has been around a Civic by his many 'Civic' comments in the review of the Cruze.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,671
    > It's on this site, however, that other makes are constantly compared to GM's, but recalls and problems are completely blown over on those makes. I have to post them here. Only good stuff about competing brands can be posted here, for some bizarro reason. It's all about balance.

    It's as well balanced as the MSM is. :sick: It's like hearing the open mike before the press conference with the folks plotting what negative theme to apply to the press conference, no matter what of good substance comes up. In this case, someone thought the Cruze drove nicely, usw, but that of course has to be countered by negatives and all the other competing brands mentioned in a positive light in case someone got the idea they might want actually, God forbid, check out the Cruze and drive one at a store.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,923

    Well, scanning over some of the other reviews this guy has done, it doesn't seem he's reviewed a single vehicle that he doesn't really like...


    As Steve pointed out, this is an issue with all reviewers for all time because of the wining and dining that automakers bribe/pay them with. Also, if they hand select the car that they will be testing/reviewing, odds are it'll be a "specially" QA/QC'd model.

    This is why I love Consumer Reports. First, they don't accept a review if the vehicle hasn't been purchased randomly and unknowingly by the manufacterer, and they have been dissing cars left and right for years and years when no one else has. I mean really, in the 90's a lot of cars weren't just crap, but complete utter absolute crap, and most magazines were raving about all of them. Some people are just WAY TOO easy to please!
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,855
    How could I have ever bought a car without consulting CR about the ease and location of things like the wiper stalk? You know, things that after two days of driving, fall right into your hand.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,022
    You know, things that after two days of driving, fall right into your hand.

    Well if it breaks after two days and falls right into your hand, that's another problem! :P
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    edited September 2012
    LOL and if you bought a Snuze when they came out, it was possible you would end up with the Steering wheel failling off and into your hand!

    [rimshot]!
    :shades:
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,923
    Hahahahah at steering wheel falling off into your hand.

    Even if that occurs, you can rest easy, knowing that steering wheel was made in the good ol' USA.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    More like he read that other people panned the Civic. Notice he didn't bother to write a "review" of it though? You'd think he would, if he has so much experience with it, and he's a reviewer rather than a writer of ad copy.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Go Ford. :P
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,855
    Wait! You ARE circlew, aren't you?
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    I detect "name confusion" going on here....

    LOL!
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,855
    Go Ford.

    Yeah! Three recalls in two months on their latest product! All right!

    Actually, that wouldn't keep me from buying one if I liked it. Let me run over to the Ford forum and see your comments about that.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,855
    For that busiris, I LARGELY apologize for blaming a comment of his on you!
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    Regardless of the "puffing" in the "review", I do like the Cruze.

    It's one of the cars I've suggested my younger daughter evaluate, as she's getting a new ride next May when she graduates from Duke.

    She prefers a smaller-sized car, and I think she would be happy with a Cruze, but I suspect she will prefer a different model. She currently has an 09 Versa Hatchback SL, and she really likes the versatility of the hatch option.

    But, we'll see ...
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    Oh, no sweat.

    I was just razzing you a bit...
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    When was it, maybe 1973 I think, that GM slapped some decals on the Nova and called it a Rally Nova, and the Chevelle, calling it the Heavy Chevy?
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    I still don't get why GM, already having developed a Cruze hatch, refuses to bring it here. I've seen photos, it's sharp. I'd seriously consider one...probably wouldn't BUY it compared to the Mazda3, but I'd CONSIDER it. :shades:

    Focus seems to sell plenty of hatch variants. Mazda seems to do fine with the 3 hatch. Toyota sells plenty of Matrix and Scion tC hatches. Subie would have mass defections if they didn't have an Impreza hatch, AWD or no. Honda sells tons of Fits, and Hyundai just released the new Elantra GT.

    But GM? "Americans don't buy hatchbacks!"
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,855
    Good memory...in mid-'71, Chevy offered the 'Rally Nova' (on the Nova, of course) and the 'Heavy Chevy' package on the base Chevelle (not Malibu). They were both tape stripe, emblem, hood pins on the Chevelle, kind of stuff but still could be had with the base 307 V8. The concept was to give people who didn't want the insurance headaches or higher purchase price of the SS models, but wanted stripes. (LOL)
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,022
    I agree, that Cruze hatchback isn't bad looking...and I'm definitely NOT a hatchback kind of guy! Isn't there a Cruze wagon that they sell elsewhere but not here, as well?

    I just looked up some specs on the EPA website, and I think I see one reason they don't offer a Cruze hatchback here. The Cruze is, marginally, a midsized car, with 94 cubic feet of passenger volume and a 16 cubic foot trunk. The EPA classifies a midsized car as one having 110-120 cubic feet of combined interior volume.

    The Ford Focus has 90 cubic feet of passenger volume and the sedan has a 13 cubic foot trunk. That's pretty small. So, in that size range, a hatchback probably makes more sense. And in hatchback form, the Focus increases to 23 cubic feet.

    Now, you'd think that the Cruze hatch would be even better, since it's bigger, it would give you even more cargo volume. But, larger hatchbacks usually don't sell all that well.

    Also, the Chevy Sonic, which is supposed to be the subcompact car, is actually bigger than it looks. The hatch has 91 cubic feet of passenger volume, a touch more than the Focus. And 19 cubic feet of cargo volume.

    So, maybe GM thinks a Cruze hatch wouldn't sell all that well, and at the same time might be redundant with the Sonic?

    As for the Matrix, I just looked it up...94 cubic feet of passenger volume, 20 cubic feet of cargo space. But, annoyingly, the EPA doesn't classify it as a hatchback, but rather a small wagon.

    Does the Matrix sell very well? I don't really notice very many of the current generation models out on the streets, while Corollas are almost *too* common.

    As for the Mazda3, according to the EPA specs the 4-door sedan is rated at 94/12, while the hatch is 95/17. So in its case, it seems like the hatch is almost mandatory, since the sedan is going to have a pretty tiny trunk.

    Still, it would be nice if GM would at least give the Cruze hatch a chance, and see if it catches on.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,855
    I gotta say, and this is very atypical for me, I like that orange color I see pretty often on Sonics. I can't stand the looks of the hatch, though. GM practically invented the hatch in the 'States, you know, with the Vega. (OK, I know someone is going to mention the Kaiser Traveller; I mean on an economy car!).
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,022
    (OK, I know someone is going to mention the Kaiser Traveller; I mean on an economy car!).

    Allstate, maybe? Or was that just a trunk opening? I do remember one advantage of the Allstate over the Henry J was that the Allstate had an opening, where with the Henry J, you had to access the trunk through the back seat.

    There's an old lady at work who recently traded her '99 or so Tracker in on a new Sonic hatchback. I actually don't mind it...as far as hatches go. She got silver, which was also the color of her old Tracker.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Does the Matrix sell very well? I don't really notice very many of the current generation models out on the streets, while Corollas are almost *too* common.

    I don't think so anymore. The Pontiac Vibe seemed to have sold well several years ago.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Well, with Cruze and Sonic using the same engines, maybe they are worried about cannibalizing sales, but someone looking for a highway hatch would probably prefer the Cruze over the Sonic.

    GM seems to be extraordinarily gun-shy about hatches, and has been for a long time. It's really weird.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,855
    I just detest that 'sawed off', completely vertical look at the back of the Sonic hatch. I much-prefer the looks of the sedan, plus I think I remember seeing that the sedan is actually longer than the hatch.

    When I think 'hatch', I think of the area around the rear window opening too, not just the trunk area. I'm thinking that wasn't the case with the Allstate. Of course, most sedans today have the trunk pass-through/folding rear seat feature, anyway. The whole difference would be some height and the size of the opening.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,855
    Even if that occurs, you can rest easy, knowing that steering wheel was made in the good ol' USA.

    Astonishing to me that an American would not promote something being made in the U.S. Duh.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,855
    edited September 2012
    I think you certainly have to realize, that a reviewer just doesn't go out and say, "Hey, I'm gonna review this car" (except CR, which I know buys the cars). The car company gives them a car to review. That's the way it is anywhere. They may request a car from the manufacturer first; that I don't know.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,855
    Coming out of Sheetz this morning, I saw a young local cop approach his Caprice police car. I asked him, "How's that Caprice drive?" and he smiled and said, "Ahh, great!". I said, "They're good cars?" and he said, "oh, yeah". I asked if anyone else ever asked him about them and he confirmed. A small thing, but I'm waiting for someone here to counter with, "Well, what could he say? He's a public servant answering to a taxpayer!" or something equally inane.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited September 2012
    Edmunds buys some (most?) of the cars in the long term tests. On most of the rest, the fine print at the bottom of the review will indicate if the manufacturer provided the car or if the editor went to a manufacturered sponsored event (any swag is supposed to wind up in one of the break rooms for employees to snag on a first come basis).

    Uplanderguy, you know cops can't drive. :P
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    That doesn't stop most publications from disliking a car they review. Automakers realize that automotive journalists can't suck up to them all the time, and are going to give an honest evaluation. As distinct from ad-copy writers who will just write whatever the manufacturer wants them to say about the car. But guess who's opinion is held in higher regard?
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,855
    edited September 2012
    Again, you are coming to a conclusion that anyone at Scripps-Howard is an ad writer. Again, I have seen total puff pieces like you are talking about, in sections marked "Advertising", but I've never seen them totally diss a competitor, repeatedly, in one of them.

    Again, it seems doubtful an ad writer would write in a review, "The Accord has some catching up to do."
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,855
    Edmunds buys some (most?) of the cars in the long term tests.

    I would expect that more in a long-term test, which I think is the exception to the rule, although I know I've seen long-term tests in magazines where they comment about returning the car to the manufacturer after the end of the long-term test.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,923
    edited September 2012
    Astonishing to me that an American would not promote something being made in the U.S. Duh.

    I'd promote something being made in the USA if it was worth promoting.

    I won't promote garbage.

    Frankly, The Big 3 embarrass me as an American.

    How did it ever get so bad! Why did they let it get so bad!??!
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,855
    You really ought to differentiate, between "then" and "now". But of course you have every right to hang onto those feelings.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    The Big3 are the ones that need to do a better job differentiating, and showing people that that reputation should no longer apply. That's going to take a lot of time and effort on their part. Ford started early and didn't need a bailout, so they're going to be out ahead of GM and Chrysler in this regard.

    GM doesn't help itself by releasing a Malibu ECO way too early and having it flop compared to the competition, especially when the competition doesn't need fancy quasi-hybrid technology to beat it. That was a mistake, and they might have been better off just killing the ECO trim.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,855
    What say you about Ford Escape's three recalls in two months? This is Ford's latest product. Just wondering.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,923
    I agree with you, GM, Chrysler, and even Ford (still), have a lot of work to do to gain back any kind of decent reputation.

    I believe they are going to have to undersell cars (underpricing them) and then over deliver. That is the only way they are going to be able to command a profitable price in the future. If they can over deliver on value, then the next time you go to buy a vehicle, you can be more willing to risk more money on them.

    Speaking of which, why am I typing here, I think I'm going to take my A3 for a fast spin on the back roads near San Diego today.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    I'd say GM's problems with the Volt, Malibu, and Sonic levels the recall field. Which means Ford still has the advantage of not needing a bailout, which matters to an AWFUL lot of taxpayers.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I think Ford has done a great job these past few years, but I don't think they are up to leadership in any segment yet. However, out about 5 years I think Ford may be in worse shape than Chrysler and GM (provided those companies get their new products right) because Ford is still dragged down by debt and fixed costs which were pared by the other two during BK. Think American Airlines today vice United and Delta a few years ago. Frankly though, looking around the car lots it seems to me that D3 is over pricing compared to Toyota, etc.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    I think Ford may be in worse shape than Chrysler and GM (provided those companies get their new products right)

    I'd say that a pretty large sized asterisk you have there in the parenthesis. :shades:
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,855
    edited September 2012
    The Malibu has not had a recall, the Volt had one, and the Sonic had one. Ford has had three in two months on the Escape. Just trying to apply logic evenly.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    No, the Malibu had a bad launch, which may be worse, depending on how you look at it. It's certainly bad.

    Little tip: the number of recalls on one model don't matter one bit. Why you ask? Because it's still only one model.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Yeah, I agree that's a big asterisk. But Ford really only faces D3 as their primary competition in trucks. It's cars and the Asians, as well as VW, that they need to be concerned about. My biggest concern is that large fixed cost structures tend to drag a company down versus its competition over time because it tends to suck cash and drive up leverage. Often that can mean less money for product and development. In my example, most frequent flyers a few years ago would likely have agreed that American provided a superior product. Unfortunately, by avoiding BK like its competitors, American began to be sucked down by a higher fixed cost structure. It is in BK now, but it has fallen behind and coming out will face the initial problems and inefficiencies that United is now facing and Delta incurred a couple of years ago. So it is probably going to be five years before American can fully compete again - if it survives. Ford concerns me longer term because of this. I hope it succeeds long term because it is an American icon, even if it doesn't make many products for six footers like me.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,855
    Little tip: the number of recalls on one model don't matter one bit. Why you ask? Because it's still only one model.

    Read up on the Escape launch. It's being called a lousy launch.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Ford also has its hands full with Synch and My Ford/Lincoln. Hopefully, turbos will go better or they will otherwise end up with some serious reputation issues/problems down the road.

    Now moving over to GM, they seem to be getting awful aggressive on 2013 price increases. The Asians, not nearly as much. The Asians are climbing back up, GM not so much. How is this pricing strategy going to enhance GM down the road???
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,855
    I haven't been aware of that. Just completely shootin' from the hip, it seemed to me that 2013 Malibu sticker prices weren't significantly different from the old Malibu. I've always bought GM's with a nice discount off sticker, though, as long as I can remember.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,022
    I think the new Malibu is going to be a hard sell for awhile, because there are a lot of of leftover 2012's left. I just went to www.fitzmall.com, a local dealer group that does internet pricing that's often very reasonable. They have 7 2012 Malibus, and 10 2013's. Unfortunately, the 2013's are all ECO models.

    One of their leftover 2012's caught my eye: This blue 2LT model with a sunroof and suede interior for $21,770. Its MSRP is $28,095.

    They also have a couple V-6 models with leather and a sunroof for around $24K. Here's one of 'em. Nice car, although I'm trying to stay away from white.
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