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GM News, New Models and Market Share

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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,856
    I wonder how up-to-date their website is. Ron Marhofer Chevy in nearby Stow had 10 or 12 2013's last Sunday, and none were Eco's. He had one 2012 left on his lot.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,022
    Not sure, but the Chevy dealer I went by on Wednesday afternoon only had three 2013 non-Eco models on the lot. I didn't take a count of the others, but there were a few Eco's around, as well as some 2012's.

    I don't know if this was a good sign or not, but this particular Chevy dealer's lot was packed with new cars, to the point that they were actually lined up on the street leading to the dealership, and sort of blending into the Toyota dealer's territory.

    So either Chevys are selling well again, and they're keeping a full stock to meet demand, or they're not selling, and this is just the inventory swelling up. Either way, it was kinda nice seeing the lot well-stocked. Last time I was out there, the lot seemed a little thin.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,856
    Marhofer's was full of cars, too, more than I had noticed the past few times driving past there over a year or so. Quite a few were various 2013 models. Not quite sure what that means though.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    In no situation is that much inventory a good thing. That's too much supply, just from knowing that it's overflowing the lot.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I think you get more for the dollar on a Camry than a Malibu in the way of price and equipment (even before depreciation). Look at the price of an Equinox versus a loaded Honda CRV. Plus, until now at least (haven't driven the 2.5L), you really need a 6 banger Equinox and its price is getting closer to a much better equipped and sized Toyota Highlander. Then there is a big upcoming price hike on the Acadia. Loaded one will run you in the upper 40's and a Denali over 50K. A Highlander Limited is a bit smaller in the 3rd row, but saves you thousands in sticker price (and doesn't have all the reliability problems). These are just a few examples of why I don't see anything compelling for the money on a GM lot these days. Top it off with the fact that Toyota, Honda and Nissan seem to have more models with higher US content, while GM has a lot of heavily Canadian stuff. I had high hopes for the new management team at GM, but I'm just not seeing it in reality today, and unfortunately I'm not sure the marketplace does either.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Astonishing to me that an American would not promote something being made in the U.S. Duh.

    Only if I like the product.

    I certainly wouldn't purchase a Malibu over a Mexican built Fusion if I liked the fusion better.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited September 2012
    Frankly, The Big 3 embarrass me as an American.

    Unfortunately I have often felt the same way. It's sad when price is the main reason for buying a vehicle from the D3, instead of actually buying the best product in the segment.

    Outside of pickups there are only a couple of D3 vehicles I'd be willing to spend my own money on.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    What say you about Ford Escape's three recalls in two months? This is Ford's latest product. Just wondering.

    Those recalls haven't affected to many vehicles has it? But yeah, Ford shouldn't have these issues.

    There a few Ford vehicles I really like, but reliability/durability is certainly not one of the reasons I like them.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    I think Ford has done a great job these past few years, but I don't think they are up to leadership in any segment yet.

    Ford has done a fabulous job of improving their products over past 5 years or so considering how bad their product lineup had become.

    They have a long way to go and certainly can't let up. But I've been impressed with how quick they've been continually improving their vehicles.

    Lincoln is still a mess, and I don't know if it can be saved, but Ford for the most part has a solid lineup.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,856
    edited September 2012
    Berri, that might be the case when comparing window stickers, but I'm not sure that's the reality when one actually purchases the car new...I'm talking what can be bought at what price.

    Remember how the tsunami in Japan completely, and I mean completely, hamstrung Toyota and Honda production, despite all the claims of high NA-content. Why was that?

    And I might add, the fellow commenting negatively on American products wasn't talking about comparing one car to another. He was making a flat statement, which I found embarrassing.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,856
    edited September 2012
    In the dealer near me's case, many of the cars in stock were 2013 models and some didn't even have the window sticker with prices noted on them yet, which is a clue that the cars hadn't sat there for months.

    Remember, just last month the Cruze outsold the Focus by a large amount, so maybe the 2013's are being produced to fill gaps left by not much 2012 product left.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    Well, a vehicle could have 99% domestic content and still be hamstrung by a part shortage, especially if the part is a requirement, such as an ECM.

    You do make a valid point, though, in that it's a bit of poor planning to have only one source location provider for essential parts.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Remember, just last month the Cruze outsold the Focus by a large amount, so maybe the 2013's are being produced to fill gaps left by not much 2012 product left.

    Cruze had a good month for sure, I'd be curious to see fleet sales. In August Chevy as a division was 30% fleet.

    The Verano is selling well, better than I expected, but it looks like it is killing the Regal as it was down 45% moving 2,072 units vs 5,200 for the Verano.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I think several key components like you indicated are imported into the US plants. But many transplants also export part of their production out of the US.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Berri, that might be the case when comparing window stickers, but I'm not sure that's the reality when one actually purchases the car new...I'm talking what can be bought at what price.

    But why not just price them lower then? What logic does it make to over price the sticker and then have to over discount to sell?
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Usually it's one of these reasons:

    1 - They miscalculated the market. Normally one would think a price drop would correct that, but incentives come out of marketing's budget, not operations, so they hide the loss on each vehicle.

    2 - They know the market very well, and want to hit up the early adopters for extra cash. After that, incentives are applied to make the car the correct market price.

    3 - They know what the price is supposed to be, but by jacking up the price and then offering "discounts" they make their customers feel like they're getting a better deal.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,927
    3 - They know what the price is supposed to be, but by jacking up the price and then offering "discounts" they make their customers feel like they're getting a better deal.

    That only fools a sucker of a customer.

    When I sat in the recent model CTS, the price tag just screamed to me (overpriced). It was a nice enough car, and drove pretty good, but I'm thinking more 30K in my heart, not 40K!

    I know I know, it's 5 series sized, but honestly, the leg room inside didn't seem much, if any, bigger than the 3 Series.

    Another important thing in value, when a part goes bad/wrong/breaks down, it's good if when covered by warranty, the replacement is "improved/corrected" so that the same problem doesn't happen again in more or less equal mileage or time.

    A good example of this is the diverter valve on VW/Audi's 2.0T. A known failure prone part; the replacement is newly revised, more durable and improved.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    Does your Odyssey have the trans shifter sticking out of the dash?

    No. On the column. It has been a great utility type vehicle. Very reliable. This in contrast to my Chevy Suburban, a fine vehicle, but no where near the engineering excellence of the Honda.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    Problems for any manufacturer are only a single natural disaster away.

    Especially if there's only one supplier, with one source manufacturing location...
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    The 1955 Plymouth had the transmission shifter sticking out of the dash.

    Think that Mopar had auto transmission buttons on the dash back in late 50's early 60's?
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    This in contrast to my Chevy Suburban, a fine vehicle, but no where near the engineering excellence of the Honda.

    Oh I know. Having owned a Suburban, it felt and looked like it was built from a parts bin of mix matched parts all sourced from the lowest bidder.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    I saw an ATS up close yesterday at the dealer. It was $54K - 3.6L AWD Performance with every box ticked.

    Ridiculous.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Must've been spec'd out to my standards. My DTS has just about everything on it. For $54K, I want a V-8 in that little car! It would be dynamite!
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    I saw an ATS up close yesterday at the dealer. It was $54K - 3.6L AWD Performance with every box ticked.

    That does seem a bit much, but that's easily fixed by easing up on the option sheet.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    For $54K, I want a V-8 in that little car! It would be dynamite!

    I have a feeling you may never see another v8 in a Cadillac other than the v-series.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    That only fools a sucker of a customer.

    You think there aren't plenty out there to be fooled? it's unfortunate but true.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited September 2012
    I want a V-8 in that little car!

    Then how was it spec'd to your standards;)
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,856
    One wonders why the Japanese manufacturers never even try to make a vehicle like the Suburban, when Chevy has been building it for nearly 80 years.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • roho1roho1 Member Posts: 318
    One wonders why Chevy is still building the beast.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,022
    My guess is that the market for a Suburban-type vehicle just isn't big enough? Look at how much trouble Ford has had, trying to crack that market. They tried to out-do the Suburban initially, with the Excursion, a massive beast built on the larger F250/350 platform that had a body so heavy, that the 3/4-ton version had a lower payload capacity than a half-ton Suburban!

    And now, they've tried to imitate it more closely with the current extended Expedition, which is probably a lot cheaper to build. But I don't think it sells nearly as well as the Suburban.

    I think there's always going to be a core market for the Suburban...construction companies, ranches, etc...people who need the capacity to pull a trailer and good passenger/cargo capacity. So, it will probably continue to sell based on those needs. But I think the market has pretty much shaken out the poseurs who want one simply to flaunt conspicuous consumption.

    There's just not enough market for more than 1-2 major players, though. If the Japanese really wanted to, I'm sure they could take an Armada or Sequioa and lengthen it to make a Suburban contender. But the Armada itself seems to sell poorly, and I don't think the Sequoia sells all that well these days, either.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Toyota has the sequoia and Nissan has the armada which are basically the size of the expedition. Shorter than the burb, but a bit longer than a Tahoe.

    After sampling all of them, I don't understand why the suburban/Tahoe sell so much more than the others. I guess a lot of people just go to the default option. Which I almost did again until I drove the others and realized there were better options for me.

    I often wish I would have bought the El version of the expedition. I do miss the extra room behind the 3rd row.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited September 2012
    A diesel excursion is a towing beast. It's not rated to tow more than a 3/4 ton burb, but can tow that weight far better. It was just to big and heavy for non towing use.

    I agree with you, there will always be a market for a full size bof suv.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Bet the chicken tax applies to trucks bigger than a certain size, SUV or no. Besides, the feds love the things, and probably buy a significant number of them, and would never buy an import variant (in fact I'm not sure they CAN).
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,856
    I'm at my dealer in Tallmadge, OH, waiting for an oil change and tire rotation on my wife's Malibu. They have nine '13 Malibus, three of which are Ecos. They have two new '12 Malibus left. This makes me think when I was looking at the other nearby dealer, some were probably Eco's but I wrongly said they weren't. (They have an extra emblem on the trunk). Still, this dealer doesn't look overstocked to me. They have more Cruzes in stock than anything else.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,856
    edited September 2012
    I might add, I sat in a '13 Malibu 1LT in the showroom...sticker is $24K. When I moved the front seat to where I liked it, I had fine room in the back seat. But then again, I'm 5'8"! I'll admit to looking at the back seat areas of new ones, not knowing exactly where the front seats were moved, and thinking they looked like less room in the back seat than our '11. But then, I'm not Andre-sized!

    To me, the quality of interior materials looks improved when compared to the previous car.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    You don't need to be Andre-sized, you just need to realize that most Americans are taller than you are and are going to have a problem with the leg room. :)
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,409
    To be fair, the Landcruiser has been in continuous production for around 50 years, and is a real-SUV mainstay in much of the less developed world.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,022
    If you want an indication of how tight the back seat on the new Malibu is, I think this is a pic of the one I sat in the other day...
    image

    That pic looks like it could have been taken after I adjusted the seat to fit me!
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,856
    edited September 2012
    Reading the October 2012 Car and Driver in the waiting room--and seeing a long-term test of the much-discussed Odyssey here--they did like it, but mentioned the rotors needing resurfaced at 15K, 18K, and 38.6K miles--this last time requiring replacement of all four rotors and at a deal offered by the dealer of 'half price'. For what it's worth, my '05 Uplander needed four new rotors at 41K miles. They were replaced free.

    For all I hear about here, about how Honda is so much better on handling out-of-warranty issues than GM, that is not my real-life experience, nor my coworker's.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,856
    I'm astounded a dealer would have a website photo of the front seat pushed so far back, and also have a piece of paper stuffed into the rear seatpocket! Tsk-tsk!
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Brake resurfacing is a small price to pay if you like the rest of the vehicle. I went 100k on the brakes on my suburban, but that doesn't change the fact that brake performance was horrible with a mushy pedal and weak stopping power, plus the rest of the vehicle was junk.

    Seems like the rags go through brakes in general. Needed front and rear pads on my expedition at 70k. I've had a slight vibration from the brakes for the past 20k miles. A magg probably would have them resurfaced or replaced. Since most of my driving is highway and rural.it hasn't bothered me enough to do anything about it.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,671
    >Reading the October 2012 Car and Driver in the waiting room--and seeing a long-term test of the much-discussed Odyssey here--they did like it, but mentioned the rotors needing resurfaced at 15K, 18K, and 38.6K miles--this last time requiring replacement of all four rotors and at a deal offered by the dealer of 'half price'.

    ROFL. The half price business is half of a ridiculously high price resulting in a cost about the same as at a good independent shop.

    If this story were about a GM product, we'd be hearing nothing but ridicule about how GM this and GM didn't that and.... Let's just be honest...

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Fin, I forgot about the landcruiser. No question it's legendary for those who venture to places where dependability could mean life or death. I've yet to see a Ford or GM suv used on any type of 3rd world excursion.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited September 2012
    Brake rotor warping can be from a variety of issues. Just over torquing lug nuts will vdo it. Maybe the dealer turned them out of spec the first time, who knows. Fact is, an Odyssey is far nicer than any minivan Ford or GM has ever built and the proof is in the fact they don't make them anymore.

    My dad had to have the rear brake pads replaced on his accord at 30k miles. Not a big deal considering how much he likes the car. It is his first non domestic and I'm guessing not his last either.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited September 2012
    Considering many seem to prefer the '12 Malibu over the '13 I don't see it selling all that well without discounts and fleet. An impala that might actually be worth buying won't help Malibu sales either.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    There is no way a "midsize" car should ever have that little legroom. EVER. That's less legroom than an Impreza with the seats all the way back. And me being a 6-footer, I didn't have to push the Impreza seat all the way back, either.

    A. The seat should not be allowed to travel that far back so as to eliminate the rear seat's legroom completely. Not unless that's the only way to provide enough legroom for 6 footers in the front. This car is too small to be considered a "midsize" here. And as I mentioned, compacts are going to beat it out for legroom. That's a problem.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,856
    C&D also didn't like the braking distances in the Odyssey. If the dealer can't get the torque specs straight, no doubt with advice from the manufacturer, who will? I might add, I always request my lowly Chevrolet dealer to use a torque stick, and I have not had warped rotor issues since my Uplander.

    Once again, you are equating best-selling with 'better'. If that were the case, the Cruze must be the best compact car. Agree?
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited September 2012
    Just out of curiousity I compared the Malibu to the regal, they have the same wheelbase and the regal has a bit more rear leg room, like a 1/4 inch or, so.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Now that I've gone from a two GM vehicle household to zero, I have far less to complain about;)

    Ditto! ;)

    Regards,
    OW
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,856
    edited September 2012
    I looked at Edmunds for rear-seat legroom dimensions for the '13 Malibu, the Fusion, and the Sonata. The Malibu is 36.8, the Fusion much, much larger at 38.3, and the Sonata 34.6--more than two inches less than even the Malibu! That was an eye-opener.

    As far as being able to put up with warped rotors if you like the rest of the vehicle--warped rotors are my pet peeve. Nothing bothers me on a car more than that. And what sucks is, usually it comes back even with new rotors. Since the news came out a decade or more ago that overtightening lug nuts can cause it, I think the main reason for it these days is weak engineering.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
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