...probably included a timing belt replacement, which is usually between $200 and $350 by itself. If it didn't include the belt change, then you've probably been severely overcharged. The 60k maintenance usually runs about $200 or so. It depends on what your dealer includes. They probably included a checklist in your paperwork which either shows "replaced" or "inspected" items. Hopefully, you had alot or "replaced" on items such as your air filter; spark plugs, etc.
rdvlobo - you said you paid $21,700 for your Honda CRV EX? If I may ask is that everything (taxes, tags, dest. charges) included? Also, is a standard or automatic? I'm suppose to go look at one tomorrow, and they are offering me $22,500 for a '03 CRV EX Standard and this includes all taxes, tags and destination charge. Is this consider a decent price?
Lots of useful information, including the following graphic:
With it's accompanying text: Gas mileage decreases rapidly at speeds above 60 mph. Each 5 mph you drive over 60 mph is like paying an additional $0.10 per gallon for gas. Observing the speed limit is also safer.
22,500 sounds like a decent price as long as it includes dealer fees in addition to what you mentioned. If that's the "out the door" price, I think it's pretty good. maybe 500ish under MSRP, depending on what your taxes add up to. MSRP is 22,060 with destination.
These cars aren't selling for invoice or below, like the civics are, unfortunately. But, I think they compare well with the competition, even if you compare MSRP on the CRV with the discount prices on the others.
Yeah I think my friend got screwed with his 60 k maintenance. The only thing he had done that I think was unique (maybe unique) was he had the CVT fluid replaced. That should be cheap though...
The 21,700 price I quoted you was the selling price including destination charge (AT - Automatic Transmission). For the out-the-door price added 5% sales tax + title/registration fees which gave a grand total of almost exactly 23K. The invoice on a EX manual (including shipping) is ~$20,450. I don't know what sales tax is where you live, but assuming 5% and approximately $250 for tax/title then the out-the-door price if you paid invoice would be ~$21,700. Hence an out-the-door price of $22,500 means that you are paying the dealer about $800 (this estimate could be off by several hundred dollars depending on your actual sales tax rate and registration fees) over invoice. Given the high demand for these vehicles, and depending on where you live, this may be a good deal.
I'm shocked to find my tax dollars being used to perpetrat another lie to the public. How is a MPG graph centered around existing speed limit be possible without telling us which car with which engine and tramission, and loaded with how much weight? Different vehicle shapes with different engine and trasmission characteristics would lead to totally different economical speeds. The BMW's and SAAB's that I have owned get their best MPG in the 75-80mph range; the 4-cyl Accord gets its best mpg at around 70; I'd imagine Element would attain its economical speed at a lower number given its boxy shape.
My father has had SAABs since the early nineties and I can assure you when you get up to 75 80 mph the mileage IS less then 60 to 65 mph. Look at your realtime mileage gauge next time you drive your SAAB.
If you know anything about aerodynamics, the faster you go the air drag grows exponentially. No way, can you get better mileage at 80 mph....
So why do we have 70 mph hour speed limits and people are doing 80 +?There would be far fewer accidents if people drove sanely.Maybe we need controls on cars to limit speed.Concern about gas usage certainly is not slowing people down. Streamlining does matter cause my wife's Acura TL gets the same MPG as my CRV and is heavier and has more power.
I'm shocked to find my tax dollars being used to perpetrat another lie to the public.
The only response I have to a discussion of taxes (at least in a CR-V forum) is: "Be glad you don't get all the government you pay for."
How is a MPG graph centered around existing speed limit be possible without telling us which car with which engine and tramission, and loaded with how much weight?
sure drag increases fuel consumption at higher speeds. But, depending on gearing, different cars may be more efficient at higher speeds. Why is there a dip in the middle of the chart? it's the same reason. The CRV is pretty non-aerodynamic, but if the gearing was made taller, it would get better mileage, at the expense of top gear acceleration.
also...I totally disagree that the answer to all of our fuel consumption and accident problems is to reduce speed limits. That's like making kids wear giant shoes so they don't run with scissors and hurt themselves.
I agree that taller gearing at high speeds allows for better mileage. The drag force is exponential and once you get above 65 70 mph the curve becomes very steep and the magnitude of the drag far out weighs any kind of gearing. The SAABs for example are streamline, but they are not air plane wings...
My past 4-cyl Accord (5-spd) never got better mileage at 70mph, mileage seemed to top out at around 55-60mph. All other cars I've owned got better mileage at 60 than 70, even when 60 wasn't optimum speed for top gear. Even the sleek low drag cars did better at 60mph.
My CR-V's best mileage was on a continuous 300 mile trip that didn't get over 50mph, got 34mpg.
That being said, I only drive 60 when when traffic necessitates it. I believe some states should raise their speed limits (like Oregon). Plenty of cars get good to decent mileage at 70-75mph, but maybe the Gas Guzzler Tax threshold should be raised to include more everyday SUVs and trucks. This might push the manufactures to improve overall efficiencies
Furthermore, this quadratic relationship, given its order of power and weights at each power, appears to be an exponential curve. Often exponential curves can be used to model certain quadratics with reasonable accuracy.
Here is a quadratic formula that is used to model drag. The green line is the current model and is much more accurate then the old linear model.
So the green line is the curve we are interested in.
with higher speed limits, and possibly higher speed testing for highway mileage requirements, maybe manufacturers would spend more time on aerodynamics, reducing the mileage reduction at higher speeds.
I have a nissan altima (manual) that gets 29-32 mpg regardless of how I drive it. I've driven it all highway, all city, constant 55, constant 65, etc. It's very nice, but somewhat puzzling. The only time I got worse mileage was on a long trip at high highway speeds _fully_ loaded. It dropped to around 26mpg.
I definitely see more of an effect with the CRV, due to higher drag.
My CR-V fits the graph. It is very obvious that my CRV mpg drops when speed exceeds 65 mph. I am getting 22-23 mph at 75 mph now which is far below the published number of 26 mpg for a 5sp. I believe 26 mpg is measured at 65 mph
Vehicles are driven over identical driving patterns by professional drivers in controlled laboratory on a dynamometer.
The city test is approximately 11 miles long and is a stop and go trip with an average speed of about 20 miles per hour (mph). The trip lasts 31 minutes and has 23 stops. About 18 percent of the time is spent idling (as in waiting for traffic lights). A short freeway driving segment is included in the test. The engine is initally started after being parked overnight.
The highway is a 10 mile trip with an average speed of 48 mph. The vehicle is started "hot" and there is very little idling and no stops.
Often exponential curves can be used to model certain quadratics with reasonable accuracy.
Well, sure, you can do that but there really is no need to use a more complicated and restricted exponential model when a much simpler algebraic one is correct. No need to reply - I see your point and I have nothing more to add.
A while back one mag had a test with a Civic HX hatch IIRC, and they achieved better mileage in 3rd gear at very low speeds than in 5th at higher speeds. Aerodynamic drag was a greater factor than the gearing.
I don't recall the exact results, but fuel economy was amazing, way higher than EPA highway figures. And the Civic is not square.
What is the top speed for the cr-v 02 a/t. I opened her up and I had to let go at 110mph and it was still pulling really good it was about to shift to fourth when I let go the gas pedal. Greetings from sunny Miami.
Hey jsdreher, I've got one in my CR-V - it's my favorite toy Here are some pics:
More pics and info on my CR-V's dvd system can be found HERE
We've also got a portable (Memorex brand??) video tape player/tv set that fits on the tray table that we have taken along on trips. It just plugs into the power accessory plug in the dash. My son prefers the dvd screen because it sits up nice and high so he can see it from the back seat. The tv that sits on the tray table is partially blocked by armrests and it's hard for him to see as well.
Try putting the TV on a crate. I've rigged something like that so that my toddler could watch a DVD on a notebook computer with a car charger. 14" screen, too. :-)
On one trip she was so into the movie that she refused to get out of the car after we got home from a 7 hour trip!
Don't forget - headphones! You can listen to your music instead of Elmo on Sesame Street.
I have a tire question for my 2002 CR-V. I bought some new snow tires (Toyos) mounted on rims, and I plan to put them on this week-end. When I take off my Bridgestone Dueler all seasons,(they came with the vehicle), I want to mark them so that when I put them back on next spring, they will be rotated. I went to the owners manual and it says for directional tires (i.e. tires which can only rotate in one direction), only rotate the tires from the front to back and vice versa. For non-directional tires, it provided a more complex pattern involving crossing them over and moving them from front to back. I phoned my Honda dealer to find out if the Duelers are directional or not, and the service agent did not know(!). He did say that at this dealership, they usually just rotate tires front to back. He said to look for an arrow on the tire -- if it has one, they are directional, and the arrow points in the direction of rotation.
I did not find any arrow, so I am assuming that they are non-directional. This means that the Honda dealer is not rotating tires according to the owners manual. Has anybody been through this before? Is there really an arrow on the tires that I just cannot find? How do other people rotate their tires? Thanks.
I am traveling a lot between Syracuse NY and Boston, MA. The stretch is a little over 300 miles. POOR mpg and small tank force me to stop in the middle. My 5sp 4WD V only gives me 22-23mpg at 75 mph. The warning light comes on between 260-270 mph. I know there are still 3 gallons left but it still makes you very nervous driving with light on.
Honda is simply stupid to put a small tank in. I am going to get rid of my V after this winter. I want something which can cruise 400 miles comfortably.
The Bridgestone Dueler's are non-directional. Follow the rotation information in your owner's manual for non-directional tires. Only some high performance tires are directional, and they do indeed have an arrow on the sidewall that indicates the correct rotational direction for mounting.
Get a 4 cyl Accord. My 2002 has a huge (relatively speaking) gas tank and 400 miles is no problem for it. I doubt any SUV will have a big enough gas tank and good enough mpg to go 400 miles unless you drop it off a really high cliff!
My '99 EX 5 speed gets 29+ MPG at 65 MPH on the highway (best ever was 31.1 MPG). That makes the cruising range about 435 miles. This is fine for me, as I personally need to stop and stretch my legs every 3-4 hours, long before my CR-V needs fuel. Even the EPA rated mileage of the CR-V is good for an SUV, and I've always done better than the EPA numbers.
It sounds like your needs are more suited to a car, not an SUV. Have you considered a Civic or Accord?
Yeah, I was gonna say. you'll probably get better mileage at 65mph.
Even though the pace is slower, you may not have to stop so you'll complete the trip in the same amount of time or less.
Range could definitely be better, though. It's true for everything in the class.
The 4 cyl Accord has a bigger gas tank and though the engine it related, it's pulling less weight and a more aerodynamic body, so range will be way better.
That seems very much "cutting off ones nose to spite one's face"...
The fuel econ of the CR-V is among the highest for any SUV. While I can understand that it is nice to have a long time between stops, short of going to a super econobox or diesel, very few vehicles are going to have 400 mile range...
The nice thing about the V is that my loss will be small after 1 year of ownership since I bought it cheap. Here in Boston area, 03 Accord can be had at invoice.
The nice thing about the V is that my loss will be small after 1 year of ownership since I bought it cheap. Here in Boston area, 03 Accord can be had at invoice.
I thank those who offered information on prices paid for an AT CRV-EX 2003. The MSRP including destination charge is 22,760.
So far we have 2 prices:
1. 21,700 2. 22,320
Let me say I am surprised at the 21,700 figure. There is only about a $1600 mark-up on a CRV according to published invoice prices. Which means they are now giving $1000 off the MSRP and making only $600 on a Vehicle in high demand. Or at least it was a few months ago. Is this consistent with what others have found?
BTW I will offer one item on a vehicle in high demand. We leased an Odyssey for the past 3 years (Excellent vehicle) The residual on my lease was about $13,500. At the end of the lease I sold it to the dealer for $17,500-result $4000 cash back- I could probably have retailed it myself for $18,500+ but then I would have owed sales tax on the 13,500. So it was a wash. It held it's value extraordanarily well. I imagine the CRV will also.
So to be clear, dealers are dealing and waiting periods are much shorter? Is that the basic consensus or does it all depend on where you live?
That price is good. I saw only $500 off MSRP from invoicedealers.com back in May, when we were shopping actively (though we didn't buy the CR-V).
Honda probably gets a hold back of 2-3%, so they're making another $400-600 later on.
Odyssey is a rare case where demand still outstrips supply even years later. Ourisman Honda had a longer wait list for those than for the brand-new Pilot. Honda resale is very good, but Odyssey resale is phenomenal.
I just picked up my 03 EX autom this saturday and was surprised at how easy it was to find a good deal with no wait. After getting the 3 locals (80 mi radius) with the lowest bids into a bidding contest, I got an out-the-door price of $22,500, including fog lights. With tax and title/license fees of $700, and the lights worth around $400 installed, the base price comes out to $21,400. If anyone is in the Charlotte NC area, I got it from Lapointe Honda. BTW, I don't have the best night vision, and I am very satisfied with the added illumination the fogs provide, as I am with the rest of the car.
I too made a "few" bucks with my Odyssey lease when I traded it in on an Accord before the lease was up. Oh, and the dealer forgot to charge me sales tax...he he. I guess sales tax is figured differently with a lease trade in rather than a straight trade in since sales tax is paid month to month with a lease. . I wouldn't expect the CRV holding it's value like the Odyssey though.
It'll do better than most in its class, but don't bet on it matching the Ody. I doubt anyone here will get money back from the dealer when they return a leased CR-V.
I usually go about 330 miles between fillups. I drive about 30 highway miles and 8 city miles daily. Travel between 60-70 on the highway to work but usually stop and go from work for about 4 miles.
My mileage will drop off sharply above 70 mph. I take a bigger hit cruising at 75 and above than driving around town.
Comments
http://www.fueleconomy.gov
Lots of useful information, including the following graphic:
With it's accompanying text:
Gas mileage decreases rapidly at speeds above 60 mph. Each 5 mph you drive over 60 mph is like paying an additional $0.10 per gallon for gas. Observing the speed limit is also safer.
Enjoy!
These cars aren't selling for invoice or below, like the civics are, unfortunately. But, I think they compare well with the competition, even if you compare MSRP on the CRV with the discount prices on the others.
Good luck!
The 21,700 price I quoted you was the selling price including destination charge (AT - Automatic Transmission). For the out-the-door price added 5% sales tax + title/registration fees which gave a grand total of almost exactly 23K. The invoice on a EX manual (including shipping) is ~$20,450. I don't know what sales tax is where you live, but assuming 5% and approximately $250 for tax/title then the out-the-door price if you paid invoice would be ~$21,700. Hence an out-the-door price of $22,500 means that you are paying the dealer about $800 (this estimate could be off by several hundred dollars depending on your actual sales tax rate and registration fees) over invoice. Given the high demand for these vehicles, and depending on where you live, this may be a good deal.
My father has had SAABs since the early nineties and I can assure you when you get up to 75 80 mph the mileage IS less then 60 to 65 mph. Look at your realtime mileage gauge next time you drive your SAAB.
If you know anything about aerodynamics, the faster you go the air drag grows exponentially. No way, can you get better mileage at 80 mph....
people are doing 80 +?There would be far fewer
accidents if people drove sanely.Maybe we need controls on cars to limit speed.Concern about
gas usage certainly is not slowing people down.
Streamlining does matter cause my wife's Acura TL
gets the same MPG as my CRV and is heavier and has more power.
The only response I have to a discussion of taxes (at least in a CR-V forum) is: "Be glad you don't get all the government you pay for."
How is a MPG graph centered around existing speed limit be possible without telling us which car with which engine and tramission, and loaded with how much weight?
Can you say "average"?
also...I totally disagree that the answer to all of our fuel consumption and accident problems is to reduce speed limits. That's like making kids wear giant shoes so they don't run with scissors and hurt themselves.
Well said, precisely, EXCELLENT observation! IMVHO
I agree that taller gearing at high speeds allows for better mileage. The drag force is exponential and once you get above 65 70 mph the curve becomes very steep and the magnitude of the drag far out weighs any kind of gearing. The SAABs for example are streamline, but they are not air plane wings...
My CR-V's best mileage was on a continuous 300 mile trip that didn't get over 50mph, got 34mpg.
That being said, I only drive 60 when when traffic necessitates it. I believe some states should raise their speed limits (like Oregon). Plenty of cars get good to decent mileage at 70-75mph, but maybe the Gas Guzzler Tax threshold should be raised to include more everyday SUVs and trucks. This might push the manufactures to improve overall efficiencies
Actually, it varies quadratically with speed and is not exponential.
tidester, host
Furthermore, this quadratic relationship, given its order of power and weights at each power, appears to be an exponential curve. Often exponential curves can be used to model certain quadratics with reasonable accuracy.
Here is a quadratic formula that is used to model drag. The green line is the current model and is much more accurate then the old linear model.
So the green line is the curve we are interested in.
Courtesy of Stanford Univeristy
I have a nissan altima (manual) that gets 29-32 mpg regardless of how I drive it. I've driven it all highway, all city, constant 55, constant 65, etc. It's very nice, but somewhat puzzling. The only time I got worse mileage was on a long trip at high highway speeds _fully_ loaded. It dropped to around 26mpg.
I definitely see more of an effect with the CRV, due to higher drag.
Vehicles are driven over identical driving patterns by professional drivers in controlled laboratory on a dynamometer.The city test is approximately 11 miles long and is a stop and go trip with an average speed of about 20 miles per hour (mph). The trip lasts 31 minutes and has 23 stops. About 18 percent of the time is spent idling (as in waiting for traffic lights). A short freeway driving segment is included in the test. The engine is initally started after being parked overnight.
The highway is a 10 mile trip with an average speed of 48 mph. The vehicle is started "hot" and there is very little idling and no stops.
(any transcription typos are mine)
Well, sure, you can do that but there really is no need to use a more complicated and restricted exponential model when a much simpler algebraic one is correct. No need to reply - I see your point and I have nothing more to add.
tidester, host
And how do they measure wind resistance, then?
A while back one mag had a test with a Civic HX hatch IIRC, and they achieved better mileage in 3rd gear at very low speeds than in 5th at higher speeds. Aerodynamic drag was a greater factor than the gearing.
I don't recall the exact results, but fuel economy was amazing, way higher than EPA highway figures. And the Civic is not square.
-juice
Sounds like you have a good deductible.
Greetings from sunny Miami.
Hey jsdreher, I've got one in my CR-V - it's my favorite toy
More pics and info on my CR-V's dvd system can be found HERE
We've also got a portable (Memorex brand??) video tape player/tv set that fits on the tray table that we have taken along on trips. It just plugs into the power accessory plug in the dash. My son prefers the dvd screen because it sits up nice and high so he can see it from the back seat. The tv that sits on the tray table is partially blocked by armrests and it's hard for him to see as well.
On one trip she was so into the movie that she refused to get out of the car after we got home from a 7 hour trip!
Don't forget - headphones! You can listen to your music instead of Elmo on Sesame Street.
-juice
I did not find any arrow, so I am assuming that they are non-directional. This means that the Honda dealer is not rotating tires according to the owners manual. Has anybody been through this before? Is there really an arrow on the tires that I just cannot find? How do other people rotate their tires? Thanks.
Honda is simply stupid to put a small tank in. I am going to get rid of my V after this winter. I want something which can cruise 400 miles comfortably.
JM2C
It sounds like your needs are more suited to a car, not an SUV. Have you considered a Civic or Accord?
Even though the pace is slower, you may not have to stop so you'll complete the trip in the same amount of time or less.
Range could definitely be better, though. It's true for everything in the class.
The 4 cyl Accord has a bigger gas tank and though the engine it related, it's pulling less weight and a more aerodynamic body, so range will be way better.
-juice
The fuel econ of the CR-V is among the highest for any SUV. While I can understand that it is nice to have a long time between stops, short of going to a super econobox or diesel, very few vehicles are going to have 400 mile range...
-juice
-juice
So far we have 2 prices:
1. 21,700
2. 22,320
Let me say I am surprised at the 21,700 figure. There is only about a $1600 mark-up on a CRV according to published invoice prices. Which means they are now giving $1000 off the MSRP and making only $600 on a Vehicle in high demand. Or at least it was a few months ago. Is this consistent with what others have found?
BTW I will offer one item on a vehicle in high demand. We leased an Odyssey for the past 3 years (Excellent vehicle) The residual on my lease was about $13,500. At the end of the lease I sold it to the dealer for $17,500-result $4000 cash back- I could probably have retailed it myself for $18,500+ but then I would have owed sales tax on the 13,500. So it was a wash. It held it's value extraordanarily well. I imagine the CRV will also.
So to be clear, dealers are dealing and waiting periods are much shorter? Is that the basic consensus or does it all depend on where you live?
Honda probably gets a hold back of 2-3%, so they're making another $400-600 later on.
Odyssey is a rare case where demand still outstrips supply even years later. Ourisman Honda had a longer wait list for those than for the brand-new Pilot. Honda resale is very good, but Odyssey resale is phenomenal.
-juice
.
I wouldn't expect the CRV holding it's value like the Odyssey though.
The first generation CRV held its value extremely well. I wouldn't be suprised if it held its value like the Oddyssey.
-juice
My mileage will drop off sharply above 70 mph. I take a bigger hit cruising at 75 and above than driving around town.
Had to be Caddyshack!
What did the Dali Lama say?