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That's what I hear. Will be interesting to see what the restructuring details will be.
Well that's a pleasant surprise. My guess is that the white house is getting involved and perhaps making that a condition of more loans.
I'm sure Wagoner is a nice guy, but not the one IMHO to successfully lead GM out of the abyss. It should be really interesting in the next few months.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
"On Monday, the Obama administration is expected to announce additional aid for GM, which has already received $13.4 billion in federal loans and has said it needs $16.4 million more to make it through the current economic downturn.
An administration official confirmed that Wagoner was asked, and he agreed, to resign."
RIP, Mr. Wagoner.
Regards,
OW
"The administration planned to send a team to Detroit to help with the restructuring during the next 60 days. With Wagoner's departure, new management would be decided by General Motors' board of directors in consultation with the government. An official said a majority of the GM board was expected to step down."
I figure Barry has a buddy from ACORN that wants a better job. So he was just making him a place. :shades:
I personally think Wagoner should have been dumped by the BOD 10 years ago before he made the mess selling GMAC and bowing to the wishes of the UAW. I have a real difficult time with the President of the US, getting involved in the operation of a private enterprise. He has put his man at the top of AIG now it will be GM. No one else has a problem with that kind of administration?
Don't forget, the original bailer-out was President Bush some 30 days before he left office.
Back then I thought the bailout was the right thing to do. The fear of GM going banko would have scared folks a lot more than AIG. People on the street understand what GM does.
Now, people have had a couple of months to think about a possible GM reorganizationn (and liquidation of Chrysler) and it's not such a scary idea any more. And it may be just about time.
Unless it combines with Fiat, Chrysler won’t get any more U.S. help because it isn’t viable as a stand-alone company, the administration found.
Ouch.
But my favorite line from the news feeds about this was:
GM’s plan wouldn’t lead to success even in an improved economy, the administration found.
Spot-on and right between the eyes. I guess one should be careful what they ask for now that Bush and the rest aren't in power and signing blank checks...
GM's Wagoner quits under U.S. pressure as 2nd bailout nears
Henderson named CEO, Northrop Grumman's Kresa named interim board chairman
12:01 am U.S. ET | March 30 UPDATED: 3/30/09 12:31 a.m. ET
General Motors CEO Rick Wagoner has resigned under pressure from the Obama administration as the government prepares to announce today a second bailout for the company and Chrysler LLC. COO Fritz Henderson was promoted to CEO and Kent Kresa, chairman emeritus of Northrop Grumman Corp., was named the interim non-executive chairman of the GM board. [REG] Comments [46] | Recommended [15]
• GM gets 60 days, names Henderson CEO; Chrysler, Fiat to link
• Wagoner's departure means that symbolism matters
• End of an era? You better believe it.
• Early coverage of the expected resignation of GM CEO Rick Wagoner
• Wagoner’s failures ultimately outweighed successes
• Wagoner's recent quotes underscore industry crisis
• Rick Wagoner at GM
http://www.autonews.com/
President Barack Obama said in an interview broadcast today that struggling U.S. automakers had not done enough yet to become "lean, mean and competitive" under federal oversight. He called for "sacrifices from all parties involved -- management, labor, shareholders, creditors, suppliers, dealers." Obama is expected to announce additional aid for General Motors and Chrysler LLC on Monday.
I look at it as a positive. Obama doesn't want failure of the US auto industry. He has to walk a fine line between the constituents who elected him and his (apparent) intelligence knowing that he can't bail GM forever and that the Unions are BAD NEWS. So in this way he forces the behemoth and stupid GM to dump the CEO, dump much of the board, by saying "if you want more bailout money you need to make MAJOR changes you've not been willing to do, and these are the conditions for more money". He's basically giving GM a chance to restructure without the name "bankruptcy" put on it.
Although I don't tend to like big government, these are not normal times. In a normal economy we would just let GM go BK. But since the govt is getting into it, and since it is your money and my money I am glad there are strong conditions attached. GM always has the freedom to not take the money and just go BK. I don't see how any new person is going to do any worse than Wagoner and the board have done for the past 10 years.
"We have unfortunately concluded that neither plan submitted by either company represents viability and therefore does not warrant the substantial additional investments that they requested," said a senior administration official, who asked not to be named."
Kudos to Obama for being serious about restructuring this industry. It will be interesting to see where this goes from a UAW perspective.
Is Blagojevich looking for a job? He's a Chicago bud of BO. :P
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Noone can argue with that point.
>original bailer-out was President Bush some 30 days before he left office.
That was to extend the status quo so Obama, who is an expert on the economy during the election, would come in to save everything.
>The fear of GM going banko would have scared folks a lot more than AIG.
But most congressfolk don't drive GMs. Most congressfolk penions are insured by AIG so they are much more interested in keeping AIG solvent, else they'd have to go on social security like the great unwashed.
The really fun part is going to be how they make clear they are paying back UAW for their election help during the campaign.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Also, they are running ads, claiming that they know quality, they put quality in all of their cars, but backed by that 100k warranty. That all fine to claim on a few cars, and honestly, I think they may be right about their newer cars, but I would not call them any better than the competition. If anything, it is where they need to be just be at least on par with the rest of the pack. "maybe". But, ahead, some cars are not. Their ads almost admit guilt, that they have been listening to us, and are now trying to run ads showing how quality is the name of the game, when it really wasn't all along, and if it was, some how in the process it got knocked down along with the goal of how many cars we can get out on the road. If they didn't have so many cars available that can't all be bought at the same level of sales, they could really do some great things! I believe that!
The new ads are disturbing, especially the investment ad. This is only going to take advantage of people. It'll only get worse before it gets better, but hopefully they can pull out of this, but to ask people to invest is not too smart. The ads at this point are silly, and I am sure others might feel the same way and laugh at them when they come on tv. Yeah, right invest in GM? I think they picked a bad time to run this ad. Support is key to getting ahead, but this is the wrong way to do it. They've blew our bail out, so why would I put my money in the company?
It wouldn't seem so bad, if they would have been running the heavy ads before this company problem. But, not when they are one step away from falling right on their face. Ha!
I wish GM all the luck in pulling out of this. But, even now they have their priorities mixed up a bit. It doesn't seem like they have "our" best interests at heart.
Money seems to override of all that. Yes, they need money, but not the solution for now and future success of the company, it goes much deeper than that. Keep blowing money GM and see what happens. Look where it got ya! :shades: :confuse: :sick: :mad:
You need to follow some of the problem discussions on different popular foreign brands here on Edmunds. They have problems and more and more owners are recognizing that they do have problems despite the push of the advocates that are in the discussions telling them the cars are wonderful and are the best thing since sliced bread. It's kind of humorous to watch. So their cars may be on average no worse than the GM, Ford, Chryslers their owners have ranted against to help form an image of poor quality for the US brands, but I love seeing them have problems. I don't wish bad cars on any one owner, but I think it's poetic justice for those who buy blindly because their neighbor "had a 1998 such-and-such and never had to change the oil or brakes or tires for 200,000 miles and it was just wonderful." Their cars have changed starting in 2003 and have regressed to the mean.
>Their ads almost admit guilt, that they have been listening to us,
My point here is that the image for GM cars, the topic in this disucssion, has been tainted by the loud and the furious through the years along with the foreign-preferring owners who want to bash the US brands. Add to some high paid executives and high paid UAW older workers and retirees that cost more and add favoritism for foreign makers through the decades in terms of import rules and tariffs, and we have what we have. I personally have had many GM cars with few problems. My costs of ownership have been much less than if I were to have purchased and owned the smaller foreign cars of the periods in which I made my purchases.
Toward handling the image problem GM has been able to do little. If you watch back through the years, Toyota has worked very hard on the PR image. They even had resident posters in a discussion thread here, in my opinion, to manage their PR image. This was when the transmission sliprings or somethiing were supposedly the problem on the newer Camry transmission rather than a design/software engineering problem. (There had already been problems with Lexus and Avalon.)
Toyota also went around the web or had advocates do so to scrub discussions about the sludge problems they were having and eventually agreed to a settlement about. Individuals were very aggressive in working to reduce the discussion about it.
GM should have done the same. But their problems were greater with costs at the top and at UAW labor end including there the retiree costs.
>The new ads are disturbing, especially the investment ad.
I haven't seen ads asking people to invest money with GM. Are they using the term "invest" in terms of buying a car from GM? If one of my cars got totalled today or the engine blew up (but it doesn't have sludge like one Toyota Camry I would have bought and didn't), I'd buy a red Cobalt in stock today at a local dealer, or possibly a Malibu they have if the price were right.
I'll watch for the ads about which you are talking.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Obama also loves Olinsky and the other guy who helped bomb the trade center (can't think of his name right now), but claimed he didn't even know him either, just like the Blago connections.
You can take the politician out of Chicago but you can't take Chicago out of the politician. All respects to our northern Illinois readers if offended, but I worked for years with a person from northwestern Indiana who talked openly about his opinion of Chicago politics. Great people in the Chicago region but politics there... well....
>Obama go the next step and ask for Gettlefinger resignation for his role of his union strangling GM
I suspect that's as likely to happen as having ACORN stop receiving millions of federal money to use for registering democrats for the next election. :P
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Period. The end. GM's quality was only one poison pill. You know the others that killed the Giant. Too many to list!
Regards,
OW
You are in a shrinking minority. Your depreciation costs were huge vs. the competition. Particularly in the last 5 years. As market share goes, you are beating a DEAD HORSE.
The market has spoken...BIG TIME.
Regards,
OW
I rather not have the government write their business plan but who else is going to do it? Toyota, Honda.....Ford! Nothing like having your competitor determine your future. Toyota would recommend GM bring back the Cutlass Supreme. :P
I'm glad the government has chosen this action with GM. Never been a fan of bailing out GM or Chrysler. Wagoner and his merry men (and woman) were dragging their feet. What they were proposing was not going to get it done. good plan if implemented 2-3 years ago but times have changed.
Hey, if it was the right Cutlass Supreme, I might be tempted! :shades:
I love seeing them have problems. I don't wish bad cars on any one owner, but I think it's poetic justice for those who buy blindly because their neighbor "had a 1998 such-and-such and never had to change the oil or brakes or tires for 200,000 miles and it was just wonderful." Their cars have changed starting in 2003 and have regressed to the mean.
I'm going to be passing through Dayton in about a week and half. Want to go man-to-man about maintenance/repair records of your Buicks vs. my '04 and '05 Camrys? I have a complete set of spreadsheets. My former '97 Camry's records are on paper.
Toward handling the image problem GM has been able to do little. If you watch back through the years, Toyota has worked very hard on the PR image. They even had resident posters in a discussion thread here, in my opinion, to manage their PR image. This was when the transmission sliprings or somethiing were supposedly the problem on the newer Camry transmission rather than a design/software engineering problem. (There had already been problems with Lexus and Avalon.)
Toyota also went around the web or had advocates do so to scrub discussions about the sludge problems they were having and eventually agreed to a settlement about. Individuals were very aggressive in working to reduce the discussion about it.
I'm an ordinary guy, don't work for Toyota, nor Edmunds (never have), but yes I was one of those who asked the hosts here to close down the sludge thread because it had devolved to name calling, after Edmunds suggested doing so. Nothing was "scrubbed" -- there are several thousand posts on this subject still in the archives, last I checked.
I had one the cars with the alleged sludge problems, but mine was fine for the 7 years and 111K miles I owned it (of course I maintained it properly with self-performed oil changes). As for your allegations about Toyota "plants" on these boards, we had a few salesmen, who identified themselves as such, plus a corporate spokesman, who also stated his position with Toyota.
Furthermore, just because you find some posters complaining about their Toyotas doesn't mean there are widespread problems. The Edmunds' hosts have said repeatedly that these boards are not statistically valid indicators of the extent of the problems. I especially find "believable" those posters whose backs were fine but then ruined completely by Toyota seats. My wife has back problems, and that is not the way it works.
You mock Consumer Reports for its "convenience" surveys, but somehow individual complaints about cars on these boards are valid in a statistical sense, when there's no way they can be without some sort of denominator. Take a look at this new site if you want another approach: truedelta.
I'm sure if I
trolledsearched through the Buick boards (which I don't), I'd find people with problems too -- Dexcool, leaky intake manifolds, etc.It's not a perception or image thing -- it's why so many people switched from domestic cars to the imports over the past 3 decades.
As for the Obama potshots, I'm fed up with them. He really doesn't owe the UAW anything -- he didn't need Michigan or even Ohio to win the election. Remember, he won several of the Mountain West states (hardly bastions of liberalism) and my own great state of Virginia, which last voted for a Democrat in 1964. McCain's biggest mistake was picking that airhead for a running mate when the state of his own health was questionable.
Now I must get back to work.
Exactly right. Geithner has been involved since TARP1, hasn't he? There's more at work here than appears.
There are many CEOs with ability to manipulate the US portion of GM's business to improve.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Can't see incentive? How about sense of accomplishment of taking a troubled company and turning it around. How about plain old ego.
This is like a great and proven football coach taking a last place NFL team and getting it to the Super Bowl in a few years.
There already "may" be an example in the brewing with the Ford CEO, who was at Boeing, possibly turning Ford around.
Executives with lots of experience at "successful" brand auto companies could be hired away from those companies by GM. Their contracts would of course require loyalty to GM. Why would they not want GM to succeed under their helm.
You and me both!!
Mulally joined Ford when there still was time to turn it around, and more power to him, maybe he will.
Only happens in Chi-town where you vote early and often.
--http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/senator-no-consultation-on-asking-wagoner-- to-leave-2009-03-30.html
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Wagoner had to go. No question. I'd have loved to find a Mullaly but GM is a good couple of years past that point. Not saying you couldn't find someone who would take the challenge anyway.
I don't mind government oversight as long as there's a plan to get out from under that. Until then they aren't selling me anything anyway.
How about $$$? Which they're getting where they are. And which they won't get from the government or GM for a long time. Unless they make like AIG management.
Try to get business people on board to keep GM afloat, and all they'll do is loot the ship as it sinks, just like at AIG.
Actually they voted "no." Congress said "no bailout money." Then the President said "I don't have to listen to you, I'm gonna give them money anyway."
What's interesting is the huge amounts of money thrown at AIG and banks, while a relatively small amount is going to US automakers. It's a power struggle. Congress wants AIG and banks to survive for various personal reasons. It's like when congress put together the huge pork bill at the President's election and called it stimulus. Congress wants AIG. So this is the president's chance to do his thing. So he's going to make waves to show that he's powerful when it comes to getting what he wants here.
Beyond the analysis, I hope he's successful at keeping GM, but I worry about his statement to the Union folk today that "I'm fighting for you." May not be an exact quote. --regards, Keith
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
And there's no question in my mind Wagoner had to go. It was long past time.
I don't know what man-to-man means but by all means post them on your CarSpace page. You could make a jpg out of the spreadsheet pretty easily. I may do that myself - I have them going back to '89 (gave the '82 Tercel records away with the car after 17 years darn it).
GM stock is down about 25% so far today, so the market reaction isn't a happy one.
Yeah, that's an idea about posting the info on CarSpace, thanks! Maintenance costs have been incredibly low, and there have zero repairs to either car EXCEPT for body damage from a hit-and-run driver and a second time when a freak hailstorm pummeled our area.
GM makes the best cars, currently, that nobody wants to buy... This reminds me of what happened to Apple in the 90s. Best computers, but nobody wanted to buy them. And the market spoke, with 90% of the sales going to Windows boxes. Except this time, there's no miracle Messiah like Jobs to bring the company back to life, I fear.
If more forum members would get together, you'd find you have more in common than you think. Especially an interest in cars. Instead of hashing out spreadsheets though, I recommend that you meet and greet at the car shows.
2008 Auto Show Meet-ups!
Oops, guess that one is done. Try 2009 Auto Shows.
Then, on May 31, Sunday, they announce a prepackeg Banckrupty under C11 for GM. By then, the public will be accepting.
There is no other way. Knew it very, very long ago. Their plan was flawed and there will be 2 marquees left standing when the smoke clears, Period.
The U.S. government gave GM 60 days to come up with a more aggressive viability plan but, with all the information that has come to light, it looks as though GM might be facing an impossible journey. GM has already failed to meet its objectives with a four month lead time, leaving little hope that GM will be able to side step bankruptcy with just two months left on the clock.
Fatal Flaws
THE END.
Regards,
OW
Time to erase the old, bring in the new. It's going to be painful and costly but everyone knew that, too, right??
Regards,
OW
The same with GM - Cadillac and a few models like the Corvette will likely go to Honda or Toyota and that'll be that. Or maybe GM will just be Cadillac with 6-10 models. Kind of how Subaru is in the U.S. It's not a big player, but it's still hanging around year after year.