GM News, New Models and Market Share

nippononly

GM delays innovative new diesel truck engine

March 10, 2009 - 7:26 pm ET
UPDATED: 3/10/09 8:05 p.m. ET

DETROIT -- General Motors' deteriorating financial situation has caused the company to delay one of the most advanced engines that it has ever designed, a 4.5-liter diesel for light-duty trucks.

"We have to make tough decisions right now," said GM Powertrain spokeswoman Susan Garavaglia.

Truck enthusiasts were eagerly awaiting the engine, which would have started production next fall at GM's plant in Tonawanda, N.Y. The engine has unique cylinder heads that eliminate the intake and exhaust manifolds. Its lightweight block has advanced castings for the crankshaft-bearing journals and oil-circulation system

.....GM has been awarded several patents for the engine design, and early tests have shown the new motor to be as smooth and quiet as a gasoline engine. Development of the engine was far along when the decision was made to put the program on hold.

Rights to the engine may be sold to another company, Garavaglia said.

If GM decides to revive the engine, it would likely take at least a year for it to enter production.

http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090310/ANA02/903109970/1181-
(registration link)

If it was really that far along in its development, this would seem to be another sign that GM is preparing to shut down. But it's hard to really tell what is going on behind those walls right now....

bobgwtw

One of GM's image problems is that the public doesn"t believe that the dumb dumbs in top management who got them into this fix have the brains & smarts that are needed to get them back on track.

Somebody needs to clean house at the top & put some real managers in place to run the corporation.

circlew

That goes without saying, IMHO.

Regards,
OW

gagrice

GM would rather waste money on the Volt that will never make them a dime and scrap an engine that could make them a ton of money. I'm with the rest here. GM management is near worthless. And Wagoner makes some of the past GM CEOs seem half way decent. Time to liquidate. Maybe Ford will buy the GM 4.5L diesel and make real trucks out of the F150 and Expedition.

dieselone

Maybe Ford will buy the GM 4.5L diesel and make real trucks out of the F150 and Expedition.

I can only wish. Hasn't Ford been working on their own mid 4 liter diesel? I wonder if development for is has stalled too.

gagrice

It seems like Ford was the first to talk about a 6 cylinder diesel. Then nothing. I think the emissions on small diesel engines is SO much more restrictive than on large ones. For example you could buy the VW Touareg with the V10 diesel in CA because the vehicle was very heavy. Yet all the smaller diesel engines available for the Touareg do not pass the CARB/EPA gauntlet. The regs make no sense. You would think with the number one selling vehicle like the F150 getting about twice the mileage would be incentive to the EPA to take a closer look at how they do their testing. The agencies are run by eco terrorists.

nippononly

What EPA (and CARB, following EPA guidelines) never anticipated was passenger vehicles getting so heavy that their GVWRs exceeded 8500 pounds. The update to this standard, included in the new CAFE2020 legislation, was long overdue.

Having said that, yes GM is shooting itself in the foot to cancel a truck diesel for LD trucks that was so close to completion. But all the crisis-driven decisions this company is making now baffle me.

cooterbfd

The worst part is that this engine would fit anywhere the Gen 4 smallblock will fit, so, in essence, the G8, and the Lambdas (which were designed for the 5.3 to fit) lose out too. Could emissions have anything to do with it? Seeing as how the task force was just there, could they have made a comment that made GM's management skittish. IIRC the government task force working w/ Chrysler in the early '80's wanted to nix the Caravan.

cooterbfd

In reading further, I find these comments telling, but maybe that's just because York is a car guy:

York said a traditional bankruptcy is a bad option for GM but making the cuts it needs to would be difficult without filing for bankruptcy. "It is not inconceivable that the federal government could decide to orchestrate a cram-down, quickie bankruptcy filing," York told Reuters.

He added: "I personally believe it would be deplorably bad to have a company the size of GM go through a normal bankruptcy process at this time. With the unemployment rate being so high, the carnage in the financial markets, it's going to make the markets substantially worse."

"There are no great choices here," he said. "There are only bad choices. The question is what is the least bad choice."

plekto

You can't prohibit the UAW. If the workers want to organize legally they are allowed to do so.

That's why so many of the transplants move in down south where the UAW has no base and they screen for union types. This is why the UAW has yet to successfully organize a transplant factory.

I know this, but the fact is that when GM dies, the UAW will as well. And the workers can unionize, of course, but there's nothing that says that the UAW will be part of that. They killed their goose and aren't going to get a second chance at it.

fezo

OK - just checking.

I agree you would have a hard time getting a UAW vote in a reconstituted GM.

fho2008

Whats EMD? It was GM's Locomotive division (Electro-Motive Division?) They sold it to raise money. Good idea, but why did they sell it? Someone I know who works there said they werent worried about the competition.

So they were once the leader, fell behind GE (yes they make em also) because they werent worried about the competition.

Why does this matter to car people? Diesel locomotives are diesel-electric. A diesel engine makes electricity via a huge alternator that powers the electric motors on each axle.

Hey why not get some people from EMD and help us out on our hybrid project...........oh wait we sold it off.

bumpy

The Lambdas were never going to get the 4.5 diesel, since GM doesn't have a FWD transmission that can handle the torque even from the VM Motori 2.9L V6 used in the EDM CTS, never mind the V8.

nippononly

GM Says Can Survive March Without New US Aid

By: Reuters | 12 Mar 2009 | 02:51 PM ET

General Motors has told U.S. officials that it can survive through March without the additional $2 billion in emergency aid that it first requested, the automaker said Thursday.

GM said in a statement that it had been able to defer the first tranche of its aid request after stepping up the pace of planned cost-cutting and holding back on some spending that had been planned for January and February.

The automaker has been kept in operations since the start of the year with $13.4 billion in loans from the U.S. Treasury and has asked for the government to provide up to $30 billion to fund its restructuring.

....The task force has until the end of March for its deliberations as GM works to secure new concessions from its bondholders and the United Auto Workers union to cut its debt by a combined $28 billion.

GM burned through $5 billion in the fourth quarter and ended the year reliant on the first $4 billion in loans it received from the U.S. Treasury.

Under the restructuring plan submitted to U.S. officials in mid-February, GM had forecast that it would burn through another $5.1 billion in January and February.

It was not immediately clear how the cost-cutting efforts GM made in the first months of the quarter had affected its projected cash burn rate.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/29656379

That's a lot of cost-cutting to do in a short amount of time - I wonder where the cuts were made. It would be nice if they could cut enough not to need any more money from us at all, but most of the experts in the industry say that would be impossible. $2 Billion - with a 'B' - is a LOT of money to be losing on a monthly basis. Also, something seems not to add up: they had $13.4 billion from the government in mid-December. Even if it lasts through mid-April, that's a 4-month period. If they consume the entire $13.4 billion in that time, that's a loss rate of $3.3 billion per month, not $2 billion. Where's the rest of the money going? Or alternately, will they not need any further aid until June or beyond?

kernick

As far as I can tell GM is schizophrenic. 1 Day they're predicting closing the doors and bringing down the U.S economy, and the next they're giving the thumbs-up.

Or maybe there's a conspiracy between the U.S. government and the companies that have taken loans, to break this cycle of bad news? It seems strange that within a couple of days, the poster-children of the collapsing economy - Citi, Bank of America and GM, have good news for us. Maybe the government has asked them to put out some false news, in return for some secretly funneled money? Who's to say where the billions of TARP $ are going? Maybe Bernie Madoff isn't off to jail, but as part of a plea deal - is secretly stashed-away, using his expertise to mastermind for the government, the false turnaround at these companies?

http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/2009-03-13-summers-economic-fear_N.htm

dtownfb

Here's some of GM cost cutting: delaying the payment to suppliers up to 18 months.

http://www.autonews.com/article/20090313/ANA02/903139985/1128

lemko

I have a feeling that Bernie Madoff is the fall guy for a much larger scandal.

nippononly

Geez, I would HATE to be a supplier to the American automakers right now! That stinks.

Could this be the reason why American Axle is suddenly "not a viable concern"??

gagrice

GM has no choice but pay labor first. So the parts suppliers get shafted. It looks like GM wants to destroy as many suppliers as possible before they file for bankruptcy. The suppliers should only sell COD. That is what would happen if we were behind at the store or where ever.

cooterbfd

I do recall reading somewhere that the Lambda's engine compartment was designed to hold the 5.3, as it might have ended up in the Enclave, as a way to distinguish that model from the rest (which makes sense, prior to the gas crunch). If that were the case, it's not a stretch that you could've shoehorned a toned down version of the diesel in there. Now, the tranny, well that can be a deal breaker, as well.

gs42

It looks fishy as hell to me too. Citi was about gone one day and making a profit the next. I would guess the market beating was causing too many people to question the Messiah of all mankind. Funny poll on MSNBC ...they were looking for further justification on HIS election and got about 60% grading him as an "F". I wouldn't be a bit surprised that the numbers are being fudged to slow the criticisms.

circlew

I have a feeling that Bernie Madoff is the fall guy for a much larger scandal.

Interesting...I never even considered it. You might have something there!

Regards,
OW

circlew

Well, the media is now integrated with Washington. Notice how only great news on GM is coming out? All hush-hush on the Auto Team front. Nice job, media.

Who is REALLY controlling this nation?

Regards,
OW

cooterbfd

".....Who is REALLY controlling this nation?"

One thing's for sure, it isn't us.

dave8697

Bankers and borrowers are controlling this country. Too many of both of them have made terrible decisions and they threw this country into this situation. Lots more mortgages are losing their teaser rates and adjusting to reality today and tomorrow. Something, they somehow never thought would come. In the end, bankers are getting paid by all of us. The borrowers are getting to stay in places they really couldn't afford in many cases. Some are going to auctions and getting good buys. The economy will pull through but it will take us to a place that is not as good as where we started before subprime.
But maybe all this is the result of socialist gov policies forcing the American Dream be made available to those not ready for it. In that Case, Democrats are in control.

plekto

The reality is that people who never had a business in the first place ever having that better car, that house, those fancy clothes, did. They were fools who believed in credit and lived outside of their true means. They didn't need that second car and they didn't need two cell phones. They didn't need that jet ski or that 3rd vacation. But they bought them anyways. Because of credit.

And now they will live like they should have all along, one way or another. For nearly three decades the U.S. used 40% of the entire planet's resources living high on the hog and now it's having to deal with less. As it should be. We've become spoiled, to be honest.

People aren't "losing their homes". What's happening is that the people who were renting and bought homes they shouldn't have and never deserved in the first place will be renting again. Someone who can afford the home for real will buy it instead. And the cycle repeats itself. The next generation finally can afford homes where they couldn't before.

It's been hell for the last decade for many of us who couldn't afford homes just and only because of the inflationary insanity. Houses are still nearly twice the value that they should be, in fact. I don't expect it to drop that much, but another 25% decrease would help. Sure, you'll need cash, just like our parents and grandparents did. And a good job. Credit will be hard to get, because, honestly, few people are worthy - truly worthy and responsible enough for credit. Especially on their homes.

What worries me, though, is that the idiots who got us into this mess are trying to perpetuate it instead of letting it happen. Sure it will hurt very badly for a few years, but propping everything up even though it's just a hollow husk at this point won't work - it'll just make it worse. This brings us to GM and the rest of Detroit. The fact is that it's like the relative that's on life support for years and years and it's come time to just pull the plug and let them go. It costs too much to keep them "alive" when they're for all intents and purposes never coming back.

Yes, it's sad, but people are resilient and will build from what's left. But it first has to fall apart. I just worry that Obama has been listening to too many people who worship pirate capitalism instead of responsible economics to see that he's being lied to.

torque_r

GENERAL MOTORS IS RECALLING 276, 729 2009 BUICK ENCLAVE, CHEVROLET COBALT, HHR, MALIBU, TRAVERSE, GMC ACADIA, PONTIAC G5, G6 AND SATURN AURA AND OUTLOOK PASSENGER VEHICLES. THESE VEHICLES FAIL TO COMPLY WITH FEDERAL MOTOR VEHICLES SAFETY STANDARD 102, "TRANSMISSION SHIFT POSITION SEQUENCE, STARTER INTERLOCK, AND TRANSMISSION BRAKING EFFECT", AND FMVSS 114, "THEFT PROTECTION AND ROLLAWAY PREVENTION". ON SOME OF THESE VEHICLES, THE TRANSMISSION SHIFT CABLE ADJUSTMENT CLIP MAY NOT BE FULLY ENGAGED. IF THE CLIP IS NOT FULLY ENGAGED, THE SHIFT LEVER AND THE ACTUAL POSITION OF THE TRANSMISSION GEAR MAY NOT MATCH. WITH THIS CONDITION, THE DRIVE COULD MOVE THE SHIFTER TO "PARK" AND REMOVE THE IGNITION KEY, BUT THE TRANSMISSION GEAR MAY NOT BE IN "PARK".

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2009/03/13/453255.html

torque_r

GENERAL MOTORS IS RECALLING 1,738 MY 2009 HUMMER H3T VEHICLES. SOME OF THESE VEHICLES HAVE A CONDITION IN WHICH THE FUEL TANK FRONT SUPPORT STRAP MAY FRACTURE. IF THIS OCCURS, THE FUEL TANK WOULD BE SUPPORTED BY THE REAR SUPPORT STRAP AND STONE SHIELD ONLY. CONTINUED USE OF THE VEHICLE MAY EVENTUALLY FRACTURE THE REAR SUPPORT STRAP AND SHIELD FASTENERS

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2009/03/13/453256.html

imidazol97

Why are recalls posted here? Is it an attempt to make the forum a negative for GM?

Is this on topic? Are we going to post Honda and Toyota recalls, TSBs, Hidden recalls?
I don't see recall notices listed in the topic title...

nornet

Recall notices are not relevant, in any case caps off please.

circlew

Sorry, It's GM news. Like it or not, recalls are news.

Regards,
OW

joem5

They are having a vote on Car and Driver .com to see who will,or has a better chance to survive.
Ford has more world cars and realises the decades lost and will only let people under 30 or forty to get the 100 Fiestas coming here this year.Ford wants to capture the younger generation of this millenia. I didn;t realise that GM has plants in China and Russia that seem to be doing well.
GM has to save Astra, I think made by Opelin Belgium it's a big seller in Europe.Saturn is selling a bunch here.Just like I think Mazda should dump Ford they are way ahead Toyotas and Civic now and Ford designers.
Maybe German engineering is back.
I don't see how all of this is going to help this country though.

dave8697

I looked on cyberhomes website and saw a tremendous change since I last looked in Sept '08. In some places, the real estate market is acting like the DOW. Some homes are at 1997 prices. I personally went through two home ownership periods without any appreciation at all. 1988-1993 in Florida, and 1994-1999 in Indiana. On the Fl house I paid an average of 10.5% interest and in Indiana I paid 8.5% average. Thats a decade plus of ownership at nearly 10% interest and zero value gain. Today a 15 yr fixed loan is a fantastic 4.66% int rate by comparison. It turns out that today, the house I sold in Fl is 47% more affordable than when I sold it, even though the price is up 153% and my income is up 116%. That is because the interest rate is down 55.7%!!!!! So in that market I don't see the need for an additional 25% drop in prices. Taxes and insurance have gotten worse, but the potential of even 2% appreciation on a $420,000 home would cover those two items. Maybe that's why they are trying to create a soft landing. People are willing to buy only if appreciation even at only 2% is a possibility and right away. A 25% drop still to come sounds good for those who do not currently own, but that means no buying at all until after it happens. That will kill too many jobs. What will construction workers do for the 2-3 more years after unemployment runs out?

stever

I dunno - there are so many recalls these days, they are mostly only news to the owners. With the exception of the ones that affect millions of vehicles perhaps.

circlew

I dunno - there are so many recalls these days, they are mostly only news to the owners.

...and to perspective owners who need to know. News is news, no?

Regards,
OW

cooterbfd

"......It turns out that today, the house I sold in Fl is 47% more affordable than when I sold it, even though the price is up 153% and my income is up 116%. That is because the interest rate is down 55.7%!!!!! So in that market I don't see the need for an additional 25% drop in prices."

All these numbers :sick: :sick: Oh my head!!! :sick: :sick:

deltheking

GM is still struggling with huge losses.I don`t think taxpayer money must be used to bail them out.GM is in huge debt and its CEO gets a bonus of 3 million.Go figure??
They are cutting jobs,,so no new jobs are created.And ,yet they need more money.

They failed due to corporate greed ,mismanagement and negligence,,,Hence they suffer...They had a headstart of almost 50 years compared to Toyota/honda/hyundai..We should not pay our hard earned money for their follies.

stever

News is news, no?

If 3,000 Cobalts are recalled because of a bad seat belt buckle, that's not really news to me. It would be more appropriate to post that info in a Cobalt discussion, not a general GM news one. I'm not going to be looking for specific Cobalt recall news in this discussion for example.

I don't think you want to get into a recall battle, since all cars have them. There were twenty announced just today today for motor vehicles, from Mercedes, Chrysler, Mazda, Honda (and Kawasaki, Prevost, Harley...). Recalls.gov

gagrice

GM sales are down 49% for this year. GM US market share is 18.8%. I agree it is a bad market for most automakers. Except Kia and Mini seem to be gaining. Don't you think that GM and all the workers together would try with this horrible market to do just a little better on quality control? What percentage of the total 2009 model year sold is 276,000? And 11 different models seems rather widespread. Could this have anything to do with loss of market share. When the neighbor sees a new GM in your driveway and asks how you like it. You say ok just have lots of recalls. I'm still a firm believer in word of mouth being the best sales tool.

circlew

It wasn't one model. It involved several differnt GM models. I like to see this type of recall whether for GM, Toyota or BMW. Then you can o tot he specific model discussion.

What do I know? :confuse:

Regards,
OW

cooterbfd

"..... What percentage of the total 2009 model year sold is 276,000? And 11 different models seems rather widespread."

First off, model year would go back to Sept. '08, whereas Calendar year is Jan. '09-date.

Secondly, for 11 models to be involved, it would seem that there was a faulty part that must be common to all those models, something about the shift linkage keeping the tranny from going into park.

cooterbfd

that posting GM recalls here is relevant to GM, it seems as if it's done with the intention of throwing it in our faces. Almost as if to say "GM sucks, take that!!!"

So then it will end up degrading to well, Toyota had to recall 1.3 million Yaris, and Nissan recalled 276,000 Xterras and pathfinders, and so forth and so on, thus getting us off topic.

gagrice

First off, model year would go back to Sept. '08, whereas Calendar year is Jan. '09-date.

Probably hard to tell the percentage. There are loads of 2008 models still on the lots. Heck I see a dealer with some 2007 models for sale. Should be some DEEP discounts on those.

I think what you are seeing is similar to a person that stops smoking. They are usually more adamant about enforcing NO SMOKING ordinances. Those of Us that were GM fans and feel burnt are more apt to be vocal in our dislike of GM.

bpizzuti

Almost as if to say "GM sucks, take that!!!"

Lesee...haven't made money in years and years....begging for taxpayer handouts...cutting costs, downsizing, skipping paying suppliers. I'd say they suck. :shades: Of course, that's not news either :P

circlew

I'd say they suck. Of course, that's not news either.

It's not new news but rather old news.

rEGARDS,
ow

tlong

[While I agree] that posting GM recalls here is relevant to GM, it seems as if it's done with the intention of throwing it in our faces. Almost as if to say "GM sucks, take that!!!"

Well, given where they are right now, how else would you define "sucks"? I'd say GM sucks, certainly as a business. And it has sucked for about 25 years.

torque_r

that posting GM recalls here is relevant to GM, it seems as if it's done with the intention of throwing it in our faces. Almost as if to say "GM sucks, take that!!!"

I posted it. And I did it because it is news that involves several GM models. I don't need to post recall news to show that GM sucks. They have more than enough bad news already. I would do something like that to Toyota or Honda.

However you wanna put it, it is related 1) Recalls cost money. 2) GM doesn't have money. 3) GM will use the bailout money to fix the defect. 4) bailout money comes from tax. 5) you paid to fix their defect.

bpizzuti

1) Recalls cost money. 2) GM doesn't have money. 3) GM will use the bailout money to fix the defect. 4) bailout money comes from tax. 5) you paid to fix their defect.

You know what, I didn't quite think of that...that IS a pretty massive and wide-ranging recall. How is fixing that going to affect their restructuring since they have so little cash they have to keep coming to us with a begging bowl?

gagrice

G.M. acknowledged in its most recent annual report that from 1993 to 2007 it spent $103 billion “to fund legacy pensions and retiree health care — an average of about $7 billion a year — a dramatic competitive and cash-flow disadvantage.” During those 15 years, G.M. paid only $13 billion or so in shareholder dividends. The company has been sending far more money to its retirees than to its owners.

My question is this. Why are the retirees at GM any more important than the retirees with a 401K that has invested their money into GM? That in a nutshell is the reason no one with half a brain is wanting to lend money to or invest in a loser like General Motors. I think it is reflected in the market share. If I invest in Ford or Toyota, I am not going to buy a Chevy.

gagrice

If GM stays on their current sales of 127k vehicles per month they will only sell 1.5 million. The legacy cost per vehicle is a whopping $4666 per car. That pig will not fly.