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Yes the Mercedes or the BMW will impress your neighbors a lot more than a Toyota. It will also go to the garage a lot more often.
The Mercedes also comes nowhere close to the Toyota in terms of interior space.
Here is my point....when we were looking at SUV's we looked at a broad range of trucks...everything from a Tahoe to an Escalade. When we honed in on what we wanted, we were up at the 50-65K MSRP price point. Please note that I said the MSRP b/c some vehicles go well under MSRP while others do not. While this forum is a wonderful resource, most every vehicle has an enthusiast forum where you get even more detailed information. The internet is a wonderful resource and has forever changed the automobile industry. No longer am I stuck researching or buying from dealers in VA where I live. Instead, I can easily strike a deal with a dealership hundreds of miles away, using information that I have gleamed from individuals thousands of miles away, and get my truck here quite simply. Thus MSRP is just what it is....a number. It is not the holy grail. Today's economic landscape clearly dictates that a rational and patient consumer can easily beat MSRP on most any vehicle, especialy these large SUVs.
The players that we honed in on were the Escalade, QX56, GL450, Navigator, Denali, and Sequoia Platinum. I won't get flippant and play a Sesame Street game of "which does not fit"? If anything, Toyota should be thrilled that the top level of their SUV is being cross-shopped with the luxury marquees. I'll even surmise that many will choose to buy the Sequoia over the aforementioned choices.
I cannot speak for anybody else but at that point, it becomes a balancing act of what do you want and how much are you willing to pay for it. Some things are very objective (gas mileage, MSRP, seating capacity, dimensions, HP, torque, warranty, safety equipment, etc.) while others are VERY subjective (quality of materials, ergonomics, exterior/interior design, how it drives, dealership experience, your emotional attachment/attraction to a vehicle, how much you will actually pay for the vehicle, etc.). The balancing act arises in coming to a decision about what you want/need and what you are willing to pay for those desired attributes.
My point is and has always been that the Sequoia Platinum is playing with some big names and, in my and my wife's humble opinions, it lacks in some qualities that are found in many of the others. Just like some of the others lack in some positive attributes that the Toyota has. I have listed them before but I'll do it again....the Sequoia has a great drivetrain and a very functional and versatile interior. It lacks some of the subjective traits that I mentioned before. The best way to describe, in our opinion, what the Sequoia is missing is this- when you slide into the driver's seat, you just don't feel like you've entered a 55/60K vehicle like you do in the others. It feels more like a "really nice truck/SUV". Does that mean that it is a bad truck? No way....we are still strongly considering it.
But the Seqouia Platinum puts itself in a very different market than a 38-45K SR5 or Limited model. Yet you are getting some of the very same bits/pieces that you will see, feel, and touch every time you get into the vehicle as that 38K SUV. Compare that to a 50K Denali, 53/55K GL or a 55K QX/Navigator, or a 55/60K Escalade.
Obviously we are on a Sequoia forum with some new Sequoia owners. That alone introduces much subjectiveness about particular vehicles. Like I said, there are some great parts to the Sequoia, but there are also some negatives. Even if we buy the Seqouia, I will always readily acknowledge the deficits that it has compared to some of it's competitors. Such is the deal when making individual decisions.
As for your comment that the Mercedes will spend much more time in the garage than a Toyota. Perhaps in the past, but I'm not sure that is a given today when comparing the new Tundra platform and 5.7 to the GL. Plus, I've got a much longer warranty on the Mercedes than the Sequoia to protect myself. All of those are considerations that I mentioned in my previous post.
We replaced my Escalade with an '08 MB GL450 which the wife now drives..net it priced out at $62k loaded with premium package, 19" wheels, hitch- everything but rear DVD. It is a solid SUV with great performance- at least a half second better 0-60 and better stopping power than the Land Cruiser, LX 570, Escalade or Sequoia.
In addition to owning the GL, I have driven the '08 Sequoia, '08 Land Crusier, '08 Lexus GX470, Audi Q7 and '08 Escalade. The best value out there is the GX470 that can be bought loaded for about $50k- unfortunately it's too small for my needs (and the wife wanted the MB). While loaded with great features, the Sequoia is nice but does not have the interior finish of the Lexus, LC, Escalade or MB- nor will it provide a similar warranty or service experience as MB or Lexus (lexus is 2nd to none). While I like the size and features of the Sequoia, the ride/performance is OK, but the dash layout and quality of materials in the interior are pushing me to either the LC or another Mercedes...noting that the Mecedes is $3k cheaper than the LC when similarly equiped (net price offered by local dealers), and they are approximately the same size (one's longer, the other wider). I would really like the LX570, but don't ant to pay $77k+ for a new SUV. The best price I got on the Sequoia Platinum was $56k- only $6k different than the MB. What makes chosing one more difficult is that the Platinum has more/better features than the LC like 20" wheels, heated/cooled seats, and a functioning 3rd row seat.
At this point it looks like a toss up between the LC and the MB for me, unless I want to save $6-10k and buy the Platinum. I wish the GX was bigger, as then I'd have an easy choice. In closing, I would definietly buy the Sequoia if the dash was a similar layout and finish as the LC- but right now I don't think I would ever feel good sitting behind the wheel of a Platinum when there are some premium vehicles priced fairly close to it. I'd be interested if the readers are coming to similar conclusions when evaluating the Sequoia & other premium full size SUVs.
Rear DVD on the Mercedes is $2670. And really, the Sequoia 5.7 engine should be compared to the GL550 as they are within 2 HP of each other.
I could add the electrochromic mirror though pretty easily.
I cannot find a way to get a leather-wrapped steering wheel in an SR5, but mine came with one. It is listed on the Limited.
Cliff Notes....not a bad powertrain.
Oh yeah...it was also Motor Trend SUV of the Year last year.
"Put the Land Cruiser interior in the Sequoia and we're buying one right now".
Trebor is right though....the Sequoia loses the value equation when it gets close to 50K. The SR5 well optioned is probably the best value, but then you lose some important option availablity.
http://www.caranddriver.com/shortroadtests/14341/tested-2008-toyota-sequoia-plat- inum-4wd.html
15.2 second 1/4 mile.
70 mph to 0 took 184 feet.
http://www.caranddriver.com/previews/10910/2007-mercedes-benz-gl450-specs-page2.- html
15.1 second 1/4 mile.
http://www.caranddriver.com/shortroadtests/14251/tested-2008-mercedes-benz-gl550- -specs-page5.html
14.5 second for GL550.
The GL550 achieved a 70-to-0-mph stopping distance of 165 feet.
So you are right. The GL450 is the same or slightly better for performance.
BTW, once you get all the options on the GL450, it is VERY close to the price of the GL550.
I wonder which I would rather have -- an LX570 or GL450?
As for the other products you listed - I like the GX 470 - it is a great vehicle for $50k but it was too tight for my needs (it also due for a redesign). I think GL450 is probably one of the safest SUV's money can buy and I almost bought one for $60k but I wasn't impressed with the MB engine/transmission set-up (seemed sluggish in the city) and my wife was afraid of potential MB quality issues. The GM products are technically not as good as the Sequoia’s specifications but I do prefer GM/Caddy interior/exterior styling (great deals on all GM trucks). BMW X5 is too tight inside and I can't stand the I-drive system in our 745iL - which is standard in the X5 (there is no way to delete this option). The Infiniti Q56 doesn't drive better than the Sequoia, it has a poor quality track record and steep deprecation (if you are paying cash) but the dealer service is better than Toyota. The only other vehicle on my radar is the Lexus LX 470 (remaining 07’s for $58k). However, I’ve mentioned this idea to others and they have discouraged me from getting a 07’LX.
I think Toyota could have had a big hit with the new Sequoia if they stuck to the design principles of the previous model - 'a Toyota with Lexus attributes.' Instead they went with a more rugged truck-look with the interior and exterior (which doesn't work in the $50k+ segment). Time will tell if I am right - but I can share with you that dealers in both Michigan and Florida (homes in both states) hounding me to buy a Sequoia LTD at $500 above invoice. I stated in a previous post that I would consider purchasing a Sequoia at $1k above invoice - I now take that statement back. I'm sitting on the fence for a while longer.
I went with a Suburban LTZ for $40,500 at the end of Oct.
I would tend to agree, but by the time you add leather, dvd, nav to a SR5, you can easily get up to $47-$48k.
I'm also trying to weigh a Limited with a few options versus a more leaded SR5. Tough call.
Mine has all options except rear DVD, electrochromic mirror, and sonar and I paid $43,600 + their BS $299 document fee. It was over $48K MSRP. It is full leather and JBL 14 speaker+nav, sunroof, roof rack, trailer hitch, bluetooth, heated mirrors, cold-kit, headlight washers, leather wrapped wheel, power heated seats, etc. I posted photos earlier. I am not against the Limited or any model. This car was on the lot and it was 6 of 1, 1/2 dozen of the other. I actually went to the dealer to buy a Platinum and happened to see this one at the same time.
Mack
After we decide what to get, I'll get serious and email some dealers. I'm not going to waste my time, nor a sales person's time dickering over numbers when I don't know what we want to get.
Thanks for being so interested in our buying process
I'm a previous Suburban owner (3x) and towing and interior space are important criteria along with many of the expected creature comforts that come with a luxury SUV.
In the end the Escalade and Denali XL lost on the lack of a folding 3rd row seat and poorly designed interior spacing of the 2nd and 3rd row seats. The absence of BT also hurt the GM products although this could have been added later. In the end, I found the high end GM products falling too far behind the competition in interior design. Particularly given the lack of fold flat 2nd and 3rd row seats.
I liked the GL but once again found the interior space too small for my needs. It also didn't have the towing capacity of the Sequoia (even the GL550 has a limit of 7500#s). I really liked the interior of the QX, even though its smaller than the Seqoia and GM products. The interior fit and finish is excellent and superior to the Sequoia. The exterior is abit quirky for my taste. Particularly the C and D pillars and the headlight placement.
In the end, I send emails to multiple dealers and recieved an offer to buy a fully loaded Platinum Sequoia for $1000 over factory invoice ($52,400 +$1000) which was about $5200 under MSRP.
The '08 Platinum Sequoia turned out to be the best value and in my case the best match to my needs. Spending another $20000 could not have better met my needs for maximum interior space and max tow capacity, which made the decision easy once the dealer made the offer of $1000 over factory invoice.
GL 550: 5569 lb (382 bhp @ 6000 rpm, 391 lb-ft @ 2800 rpm) 1.4 mile: 14.5 sec
GL 450: 5300 lb (335 bhp @ 6000 rpm, 339 lb-ft @ 2700 rpm) 1/4 mile: 15.1 sec
Sequoia: 6100 lb (Power (381 bhp @ 5600 rpm, 401 lb-ft @ 3600 rpm): 1/4 mile: 15.2 sec
The Toyota weighs about 10% more than GL550 does and 15% more than GL450 does.
Mack
Mack
Mack :shades:
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_9749_Nextour+HN092HR+-LIGHT+GRAY-.html#
I am unsure how I can route the power/video cables through the seats. Anyone have an idea? I stuck a snake down the post hole and it hit bottom in about 10 inches.
I think this will solve my sonar problem.
As mentioned earlier, I was looking forward to the new Sequoia and was a bit disappointed that it is not as long as I thought it would be. Now I really have to make a tough decision between the Sequoia or Denali XL. For me, since the 3rd row seat will always be up with kids sitting there, the cargo space after the 3rd row in the Sequoia is just too small. Putting stuff on the roof is always an option but that's not my preference. For families with 3+ young children, I'd really like to hear your thoughts regarding the trunk space issue when you choose your SUV.
BTW, is it true that for QX56 and Ford EL/Navigator L, you can not load and control the DVD from the front dash area - that you actually have to load the DVD disc into the DVD player mounted in between 1st and 2nd row. If that's the case, wouldn't it be so inconvenient if the parents are sitting in the front row with little kids are in the 2nd row? Thanks.
http://www.sportsimportsltd.com/aumiwiho.html
So the only features I felt I missed were an auto dimming mirror ($275), rear-DVD ($1770), and sonar ($500). I would have bought them factory 'ceptin I took a car off the lot without them. They would have been $2545 retail, $2036 invoice.
I ordered these substitutes:
Auto dimming Homelink mirror $220: http://www.sportsimportsltd.com/aumiwiho.html
DVD $400 http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_9749_Nextour+HN092HR+-LIGHT+GRAY-.html#
Sonar $136 http://parkingsensors.net/sc.cgi?cart_id=&item=F4R4BG&cat=Front_and_Rear_Parking- - _Sensor_Systems
$756 total (not installed). $1280 to $1789 savings. Savings was not really the main point though. I simply did not have them. I am looking forward to installing the DVD but not the others.
Did you come across any more "well-known" brand names in your search.
Yeah. You can go to Crutchfield.com and spend $1600 on something that looks the same and is a stronger brand name. They probably just contract this company to put their name on it. Nobody really makes this stuff except contractors in China.
I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder - I find the new Sequoia rather ugly - It is short on space and the back looks like the Sienna. Glad I did not wait for it especially since I needed the space
See the post below for the complete listing. My research shows that if you get the DVD NAV and rear DVD entertainment package you cannot get the 6 CD changer, XM or Sirrius. They use the only aux input for the entertainment in rear. I may pull it out and sell it to get what I really need. Which is XM and a CD changer.
gagrice, "2008 Toyota Sequoia" #598, 28 Dec 2007 12:33 pm
This shows the factory sonar location. I will duplicate it since they know where there is room under the plastic.
I drove the new Sequoia just a few days ago. I was disappointed by the experience. This is just my opinion, but here are a few thoughts on the new model. 1) The big bulbous nose on the hood leaves you feeling like you're driving a work truck. 2) The car drives better than the model it replaces. Much better pick-up and go.
3) The steering feels too lite. I would like a little better feel for the road 4) The dash panel is a disaster. It felt very cheap and plasticy. The dash doesn't feel balanced aesthitically. The silver plastic is something I would expect in an 80s American car aimed at the high school crowd. The deep wells for the instruments are unappealing and are obstructed by the steering wheel at times. It is very telling that the Toyota web site doesn't show a full picture of the dash in their interior photo section...they know. 5)The transmission stick is like a rectangular block of plastic....it is a rectangular block of plastic.
6) The car has good usable space. 7) The seats are less comfortable than on the car it replaces. 8) I really expected a little more sense of luxury... I feel like I'm in a tundra pickup, which for 60K isn't what I'd expect.
No offense meant to those that like this vehicle. These are just my opinions. I really wanted to like this new model. I'm now down to a decision between a MB GL and an Escalade or Denali. Good luck to everyone with their decision.
MB GL is narrow and feels like half the size... Sure, if you can deal with a mid-size SUV, then by all means the MB is a reasonable option. It is small and expensive nonethless.
Escalade ESV has good cubic volume, same with the Yukon XL... However, they ALL feel like the same chasis, and they are nothing special either... While you may be dissapointed with the Sequoia, I don't think ANY other full size SUV brings anything special to the table. Escalade gets crap gas mileage and really feels like a frankenstein pimp mobile in my opinion. Expensive also!! Yukon XL? Maybe it might cost a little less than the Sequoia, and may have more internal cubic volume, but it feels like a generic vehicle. The concerns you mention of the Sequoia I would have mentioned about the Denali. Give me a break, they are GENERIC also and are not winning on style or luxury points... I scoured the earth for FULL SIZE SUV replacements and there just aren't any standouts... The Sequoia edges out any other FULL SIZE suv in my opinion. If you can deal with a mid size SUV, then you would have lots of good options, but not full size.