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Toyota 4Runner

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  • mrwhipplemrwhipple Member Posts: 378
    Are you guys planning on climbing Mt. Everest or something?
  • jkulp42757jkulp42757 Member Posts: 83
    Most vehicles that have this, have it because they lack a transfer case with low range gearing.

    The 4Runner has a low range, so why the downhill assist? Is the low range not low enough?

    I have a 2002 Dodge Ram Quad Cab 4x4, (considering the 4runner), put that in 4Low and even the steepest hills are a breeze, its a nice creeper for stock.

    What is the 4Runners(2003)low range ratio? Anyone know?
  • jkulp42757jkulp42757 Member Posts: 83
  • wldrnswldrns Member Posts: 2
    What would be a great deal on a new 2002 4runner, sr5, very basic 4x4, with no real options? One nearby dealer is talking $23 or $24,000. Seems like a pretty good price, but the 4runner is very basic. Especially after driving the 2003 4runner. Is this a price too good to pass up? Thanks for any input. Robert
  • jeffjeffjeffjeff Member Posts: 54
    Is it me or does this vehicle just eat gas up. I know it uses 87 octane but it seems as if you can actually see the gas needle drop as you drive. Does the fact of the engine being new have a factor to play in low gas mileage? Does the engine have to to get some miles on it to break it in before you can start seeing improvements? As of now, the truck has 500 miles on it. It seems to hold around 16 gallons in the tank and you end up paying around $25 to fill the tank and you average around 300 miles on one tank. Is this normal or will this improve once the engine ages a bit? Also, the gas light seems to come on just barely below 1/4 of a tank. Can't you drive another 50 miles or so before it really needs to be refueled? I say this because the light came on, but when I pulled into a gas station to fill up, the light went off. and it was not quite near empty. Anyone own a 3rd generation runner like a 2002 4WD model that has any thoughts on this? Please give me some advice, I'm desperate!
  • mrwhipplemrwhipple Member Posts: 378
    Not many vehicle have this feature. It usually works with 4Lo gearing. It helps to prevent brake lock-up. It modulates the low gearing in conjunction with gas and braking automatically. It wouldn't be nearly as effective without low range gearing although I think some vehicles have it without a 2-speed (low) transfer case. I believe Land Rover first implemented the technology and it works very well.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    I would grab that price if I were you - a '02 SR5 4WD at $23K (you DID say 23K, right?) is a great deal, and you don't really need to option up the Runner - all the important stuff is included, except the upgrade pkg for 265/70/16's and 13" front discs - you should get that. I have never seen a 4WD Runner sold without it.

    jeffjeff - the 3rd gen has an 18.5 gallon tank, and you will probably get about 18 mpg around town, maybe 21-22 on highway trips unless you are flogging it. And yes, you can go about another 50 miles when the gas light comes on, but that is just a very rough estimate, and may vary for your truck and your driving style.

    Count me for one more vote that the cladding on the 4th gen Sport does not look anywhere near as bad in person as it did in the pictures, but one thing is for sure - this truck is NOTICEABLY lower to the ground. In a couple of months I am going to get one from a friend at a dealership and take it offroad (lightly!) and see how it compares to mine.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • mrwhipplemrwhipple Member Posts: 378
    Toyota web site now states "late" November for new V6 availability.
  • intmed99intmed99 Member Posts: 485
    Downhill assist control is quite useful. The 4Runner's low-range ratio is 2.566. Dodge i think uses a low-range of 2.72, same as Jeeps.

    Land Rover Discovery and Range Rover have this downhill assist too. Both have low-ranges.

    Downhill assist allows you to go downhill at less than 5 mph...a very controlled descent. This is slower than what you can get via transfer case alone, unless you have a low-range of 3.5 or above. Quickly applying the brake is not the same.

    Overall, i like this feature. Maybe i can retrofit it on my '02!
  • mhenderson1mhenderson1 Member Posts: 164
    sat in the 2003 4-runner at Darcars Toyota in Silver Spring , MD. And I have to say that through all the waiting i was very much disappointed with this SUV. For one thing I am 6'6" and through all the hoopla, i was sure the 4-runner was the truck for me as far as legroom size and seat height. I was very much disappointed in the 4-runner's seats as they did not offer much thigh support for my legs, and in a way i thought that the seats were kind of short. I adjusted the seats as much as I could in both the SR5 and the limited. I felt that the limited offered better leg support withits manual adjuster than the powered seat adjuster on the limited. Since my legs are longer than my torso, I really had no problem with the headroom, but i know other tall folks will definetely have problems with the headroom (if you get a sunroof). The Kia Sorento seemed to offer more leg and headroom than this SUV. I was so disappointed that I did not even take a test drive. Oh well....., I guess I'm back to the drawing board.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I was there Saturday afternoon, and took a new gold Limited 4WD out for a test drive! It's the second one I've driven.

    I don't like that dealership. The salesmen are like flies, and I feel like I'm always swatting them away. Too high pressure a place for me...

    Bob
  • mhenderson1mhenderson1 Member Posts: 164
    Ditto with me to. As soon as I took a step out of my car, they were on me. Although I told them that I was only looking at the 2003 4-runner since it just came out, they continued on asking me about how I was going to finance, was I turning in a trade, and they even begged me to look at the new camry which i told them i did not want another car. Its funny because the Darcar Lexus dealer is right behind the Toyota, and there they will not even look in your direction if you don't look like a particular (rich wearing as suit) buyer.

    Buyers beware!!!
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    is the largest Toyota dealer in the east coast. They sell more Toyotas than anybody else except Longo Toyota in California which is the biggest in the world and they outsell everybody.
    Mackabee
  • beagles3beagles3 Member Posts: 132
    Well, I test drove a 2003 4x4 Sport and was impressed with the 4.7 V8...Before I knew it, I was up to 80 on the fwy. It rode absolutely wonderful and the interior was vastly improved from the 3rd Generation. The exterior bothered me (the cladding and funky GM squared fenders),but, after seeing a black Limited in the solid color, my mind is made up to purchase one of these bad boys when the $$ is right,so, I can't wait til the day when I drive one home:)
  • intmed99intmed99 Member Posts: 485
    http://www.gocrvclub.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=6498#post6498


    Just scroll down to post with a lot of links to videos and pics.

  • beagles3beagles3 Member Posts: 132
    Great pictures....Were they taken up at Mt Baker in WA State?
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    As with all Toyota SUVs/pickups, the '03 4Runner is only rated to tow 1000 pounds if you don't have trailer brakes on your trailer. A few questions:

    • Does Toyota offer an under the dash wiring harness to hook up an electric trailer brake controller? I know GM offer this for their trucks as an option, and was wondering if Toyota also offers such a device.

    • Or, do you have to splice wires to in order to hook up the brake controller?

    • Does Toyota offer an electronic brake controller that would mount into one of the blank dashboard pop-out accessory plugs?

    Bob
  • intmed99intmed99 Member Posts: 485
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    Thanks for that softball! The 2003 is pre-wired for electronic brakes. If you look in the glove box, you will see the wiring harness which is set up to be installed under the dash on the driver's side.

    Beyond that, most trailers don't need electronic brakes but use surge brakes. The 2003 has a 7 pin connector at the hitch which can accommodate disc brakes that require a cut off (like my Ranger boat trailer).
  • intmed99intmed99 Member Posts: 485
    If the '03 4Runner has limited rear axle articulation for whatever reasons, then why do you think an IRS would be better (given the SAME anti-roll bar size)???? I don't understand your logic. Do you mean better on-road?? If so, then, yes, IRS is better on-road than solid axle. But for off-roading and towing, solid axle STILL rules.

    If you're comparing a good-design IRS, then you have to compare it to a good-design solid axle, right? I mean, solid axle on Sequoia doesn't articulate much...therefore, it is not fair to compare it to the '03 Range Rover.
  • markd666markd666 Member Posts: 1
    HAS ANYONE HAD PROBLEMS WITH THE FRONT END ON 2001-02 4RUNNERS
    TIRE WEAR OR VIBRATION WITH THE RIGHT TIRE WEARING MORE
  • intmed99intmed99 Member Posts: 485
  • beagles3beagles3 Member Posts: 132
    My first question would be, is it properly inflated? Have you had your front end aligned ever? Have the rotors checked? Check the shocks?
  • dchyornydchyorny Member Posts: 47
    We had a problem woth our 2001 4Runner where it was really pulling to the right. I checked the tire pressure and they were all ok. Took it to the dealer; ended up the strut was leaking. They replaced it under warranty. Now it's back to perfect!!!

    Saw a 2003 Limited and was pretty impressed; $40,985 fully loaded.
    Saw a 2003 SR5 and thought it looked a lot smaller than the limited. Kind of a cross between the RAV4 and the Highlander... I think when my lease runs out on the 2000 Monty Sport I'll get a 2002 Sport 4Runner.

    Sorry guys, but my wife drives the 4Runner. I feel that it's safer than the Mitsubishi Montero that's why it's hers. Plus I feel safer that our 6 month old is in a 4Runner. A lot more stable and the power is there when you need it...
  • mrwhipplemrwhipple Member Posts: 378
    Cliffy, why do all of the Limiteds I see still have the cruise control on a stalk instead of the wheel. Isn't the wheel mounted system standard?
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    If a Runner has a chronic pulling problem, it is usually due to the tires. I've heard our shop guys comment that the OEM tires are pretty difficult to balance properly and they have replaced them on occasion under warranty. It is infrequent, but it does happen. I don't know if one brand is more susceptible than another. I didn't ask.
  • mrwhipplemrwhipple Member Posts: 378
    Anyone notice the dashboard material is different from the Limited to the other 2? It is a smoother surface.
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    I think its just the radio controls that are on the actual wheel. The cruise control stalk was re designed but is still a stalk.
  • mrwhipplemrwhipple Member Posts: 378
    Why do they have the blank plastic pieces on the right side of the wheel? It looks like the wheel is fitted for it, but not installed.
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    Have you seen one with the Navigation system? I think at least one of those buttons works with that.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    << If the '03 4Runner has limited rear axle articulation for whatever reasons, then why do you think an IRS would be better (given the SAME anti-roll bar size)???? I don't understand your logic. Do you mean better on-road?? If so, then, yes, IRS is better on-road than solid axle. But for off-roading and towing, solid axle STILL rules. >>

    Yes, better on-road, and very good off-road (not necessarily better than a solid axle layout, but still very good, nonetheless). Since these vehicles spend most of their time on-road, the IRS makes the most sense, IMO.

    As to towing, I know you don't want to hear this, but the IRS-equipped Expedition has the the best towing in its class, at around 8500 pounds for 2WD versions, and a bit less for 4WD versions.

    << If you're comparing a good-design IRS, then you have to compare it to a good-design solid axle, right? I mean, solid axle on Sequoia doesn't articulate much...therefore, it is not fair to compare it to the '03 Range Rover.

    You could also take this "articulation" issue to an extreme and say and point out how good purpose-built solid axle rock crawlers are. For the average SUV buyer, it means little however.

    Bob
  • beagles3beagles3 Member Posts: 132
    Question? I had a sales manager tell me over the weekend that the only way to get the X-REAS Suspension/ etc on the Limited is to order the navigation pkg?? I HOPE NOT!! That sounds crazy?? I looked at the Toyota website and it says that you can order the suspension pkg as part of a $3700 retail pkg including the JBL 6 disc cd,etc?? He also told me that he has not seen any Limited's with the upgraded suspension pkg?
  • mrwhipplemrwhipple Member Posts: 378
    cliffy, no I haven't seen one with the NAV system. I will look for one with it next time I check one out. Thanks for the info.

    Now I am wondering if the models later this year or earlier next year will show up with it on the wheel. Either that or the website and brochures are wrong. It's listed in both sources. It's even optional on the SR5 and Sport models. Go figure.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    << Beyond that, most trailers don't need electronic brakes but use surge brakes. The 2003 has a 7 pin connector at the hitch which can accommodate disc brakes that require a cut off (like my Ranger boat trailer). >>

    Yes and no. For boat trailers, surge brakes are popular because you don't have to worry about water shorting out the system, but for utility trailers (such as what I have) electric brakes are preferred. In fact, I've spoken to several trailer dealers who think that surge brakes may(?) be outlawed in the future. Don't ask me why, because I don't know, other than that's what they've said.

    The big advantage of electric brakes for utility trailers is that you can adjust for the amount of braking needed, whether you have a fully loaded trailer, or an empty trailer. Boat trailers are normally driven "fully loaded" (carrying a boat), so that's not an issue. Also with surge brakes, because of their design, tend to apply the trailer brakes when you are backing up.

    The current issue of Truck Trend, besides having a 4Runner road test, has a very comprehensive section (this issue) devoted to trailering. It might be worth picking up. That's where I learned about surge brakes being applied when you are backing up.

    So, Toyota does offer a under the dash wiring harness for electric trailer brakes. That's good. And it comes standard, if I understood you correctly? Do they also offer the brake control that the harness plugs into?

    Bob
  • mrwhipplemrwhipple Member Posts: 378
    Some of the option packages on the web site are ridiculous. Here in LA, there is only one package for the Limited that is nearly $2400. The packages are different for per region. They lump everything together for $$$$. So the package the dealer told you about may be correct.
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    The answer is yes and no. According to the TVO books for this region, that salesman is correct. The only way they are sending the Limited is either without the X-REAS or with it plus navigation.

    On the other hand, we have one on our lot right now without navi and with X-REAS. We also have a Sport model without the spoiler. Both of these are probably first run vehicles that didn't show up in the normal order bank. It is also likely that there are other dealerships with oddities like these. Once this first batch is sold, we will only be getting what is on the TVO report. Unfortunately, this means that if you want it this way, you need to get it now, wait and hope that future TVO books are more favorable to you or compromise your want list.
  • intmed99intmed99 Member Posts: 485
    Yes, IRS-SUVs can tow quite a bit. However, does the Ford Excursion has IRS?? No. Does the GMC Envoy/Yukon/etc. have IRS?? No. Do trucks have IRS?? No.

    Ford Expedition is the first full-size SUV with IRS...there is a reason for that. We will see if this IRS will hold up to repeated towing. I think the control arms on the Expedition are ALUMINUM too. Oh yeah, that is just freaking great for towing and off-roading! :) Not even Range Rover is stupid enough to make the control arms out of aluminum. Great for sports cars (where unsprung weight is bad). Very bad for SUVs/trucks that off-roads and tow.

    New Range Rover uses SOLID steel for the control arms...very nice! It is heavier but stronger than stamped steel...much stronger than aluminum.

    I agree with you. IRS is great for most people. However, we're talking capability here, NOT what most people would use it for. I want an SUV that EXCEEDS my needs, rather than one that MEETS my need. Just my opinion.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Let me sum this up so that we can get on with other 4Runner discussions.

    There are some folks out there who swear you can't go off-road with IRS. I'm simply saying that's not true.

    I am not saying that IRS is better than a solid axle off-road, only that a properly designed IRS can take most SUVs just about anywhere a sane* person would want to venture. That's it. Nothing more.

    * = If your idea of *sane* is rock crawling on the Rubicon, then perhaps a solid axle is better for you. Is everybody happy now?

    Bob
  • sean48sean48 Member Posts: 37
    I took a look at a 2003 4Runner Limited this past Saturday and left a bit underwhelmed. I didn't test drive it (salesman was good enough to offer a test drive though), since I was away from home and didn't have a good idea of the best roads to travel to simulate my daily drives.

    I'm definitely not an off-roader, so I'm evaluating the Limited against other vehicles such as the Volvo XC 90 (still to be seen). Anyhow, here are my impressions...

    Exterior: Not bad, but nothing special. It's pretty generic, but not ugly. The textured B-pillar is a bit weird, however.

    Interior: This is what I was looking forward to. Again, it's nice, but I wasn't knocked out by anything. It doesn't blow the competition away. The seats were really pretty comfortable, but I was disappointed that the passenger's seat had power forward-reverse and recline, but did not have a power height adjustment. I didn't check to see if it had a manual height adjustment. This lack is a definite negative for me.

    The metal finish plastic is okay, but seems a bit cheap to me. Plastic is plastic and metal is metal, but never the twain should meet. And what's with that granite plastic around the central control cluster? That looked a bit like a bad kitchen counter.

    Again, I didn't drive the Limited (which I will definitely do), so this first impression is admittedly incomplete. But my first reaction is that, while I like the new 4Runner, I haven't fallen in love with it. And, at $40K+ (with navigation), I'd better be in love before I sign on the bottom line. This may be my next vehicle, but it's going to take a little while to warm up to it.

    BTW, this is my first posting on this site. Of all of the Edmunds sites I've visited, the folks here seem to be the most knowledgeable...and civil...of all. Keep up the good community!
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    Welcome to the discussion. You are correct that this is one of the better topics here at Edmunds.

    You've got to drive this thing. I too thought it was nice but not great until I drove it. Trust me on this one.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Sounds like what you need is a LR Defender. ;)

    As to the Expedition's durability, I'm sure Ford wouldn't have risked their reputation on IRS if they didn't believe in it. For what it's worth, the next F-150 is reportedly* also going to have IRS. Do you think Ford is so stupid that they would risk their sacred cash-cow F-150 with IRS, if they didn't have confidence in it.

    * = The '04 F-150 was/is supposed to get IRS. However, Ford, trying to recoup losses, has been doing a slash-'n-burn to get the price down, so IRS may(?) get the ax.

    Bob
  • mrwhipplemrwhipple Member Posts: 378
    Ford used a twin I-Beam setup for the front long ago. It was crap. People had more problems with that setup, especially alignment. Ford doesn't exactly have a great reputation. Cheap interior materials, Firestone debacle, service just to name a few.

    But I do agree an IRS system works great if it is done right.
  • jbhncjbhnc Member Posts: 16
    Hi all, bought a 03 LTD 4x4 over the weekend. Can't wait to pick it up tomorrow!

    Question is toyota references all weather mats on their website. I would much rather have these then carpet mats.

    1) When are these available?
    2) Anyone know what these are. Are they rubber or plastic.
    3) Include something for the cargo area?

    BTW: For all who haven't driven one, certainly worth it. It is easily as quite as my BMW was and the V8 is perfect, smooth and powerful.

    Thanks
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    << Ford used a twin I-Beam setup for the front long ago. It was crap. >>

    Yes it was crap, and I owned one. Didn't hurt Ford sales one bit however.

    Bob
  • intmed99intmed99 Member Posts: 485
    Nah, no Defender. I love my '02 4Runner Ltd. 4wd! It is just about perfect size for off-roading. It has a very reliable and smooth powertrain (a bit slow though). As i stated above, it also has the best combo: IFS and solid rear axle.

    As for IRS on trucks...we will see! Truck owners are anal as anything! I don't think many truck owners (esp. Ford truck owners) will buy a truck with IRS. Hell, they don't even accept the Toyota Tundra as a real full-size!

    Durability...we will see.
  • mrwhipplemrwhipple Member Posts: 378
    (Didn't hurt Ford sales one bit however.)

    Didn't mean it was a good idea either.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Bad ideas are not a Ford exclusive. I'm sure if we dig deep enough, we can find some goofs that Toyota marketed.

    Bob
  • mrwhipplemrwhipple Member Posts: 378
    I couldn't agree more. Just look at that new plastic crap.
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    Welcome aboard! We're looking forward to hearing a lot more from you.

    tidester
    Host
    SUVs; Aftermarket & Accessories
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    The only thing they've ever done that would approach the level of putting IRS in the F150 would be their venture into boating. They pulled the plug quickly when they realized that no body wanted a $38K 21' ski boat with an inboard even with a Lexus V8.
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