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Comments
If you are getting an EX Borrego for the price of an LX being around $25K then you were out of your mind to leave that deal.
You have to pay extra, and by that, a hefty sum for the "goodies."
I am keeping an eye on this one. If prices tank on used models in a few years I may bite. For the current owners I hope they don't depreciate to rapidly, but if they do....
There is no way I would tow a trailer and my family without having brakes on the trailer and a brake controller in the tow vehicle.
What price is your family's safety worth?
There is no way you can justify a cost of a lawsuit. It would be cheaper to put brakes on your trailer.....and safer too!
I am not familiar with the Prodigy brake controller but if it requires brakes on the trailer, remember there aren't any. I will run a google search to check it out. If it is cheaper than trailer brakes and works, I am interested in it. I have the boat/trailer in the shop and plan to have surge brakes installed. I proposed buying the brake system materials and ask the dealer to provide the labor to install it and was told they would "get back to me as soon as possible". That was three days ago. No calls. If they had accepted my offer, I would not have made this posting. Having it done at the boat shop will run somewhere between $400 and $900.
One other point I would like to make. I beleive I was deceived by the Kia literature and the lack of detailed knowledge about the towing capacity of the Borrego by the sales personnel into buying a vehicle that I told them right up front had to be able to tow my 3500 lb boat and trailer. Deceptive advertising is illegal in Ohio. It won't tow my boat and trailer therefore they owe it to me to make it right. There are not asterriks or qualifications to the statement that the Borrego will tow 5000 lbs. Even review forums like Edmond don't have anything on this issue. Believe me, it is no small matter to find out you have to put out even more money after you just spent $28 grand on a new car. I will recover the cost of adding the brakes to the trailer one way or another.
http://www.towingworld.com/articles/TowingLaws.htm
As I said...there is no way i would tow a trailer WITH MY FAMILY IN THE TOW VEHICLE without trailer brakes. REGARDLESS of the tow vehicle. It's asking for a disaster!
And I think chuck1919's point simply is that it's dangerous to be towing a trailer that heavy without brakes on it. Were you to have an emergency braking situation, you will immediately have an out of control trailer flailing about behind you, endangering you and your family and other drivers and families around you. Not only that, but your brake system would not only have to deal with the hulking 5,000+ pounds of the Borrego itself but also the additional 3,500 pounds of trailer. That's 8,500+ pounds of mass and momentum to bring to a stop in a hurry, and the stock brake components may simply not be up to that task. They may only be rated up to 7,000 pounds. Do some research on your pads, disks, and brake fluid. Find out what the max ratings are for each and then go on the minimum number. I'm willing to bet the weak link is in the pads. "Good" brake pads are noisy, dusty, and coarse sounding. When dealing with NVH, compromises had to be made. I bet the pads for this vehicle were chosen for comfort and cleanliness, not performance.
Get some better pads and your trade off will be perpetually dirty wheels and brake noise. Get better brake fluid and it may result in a firmer brake pedal. It will solve your particular towing problem, but then I bet you'll be back complaining about that then. :sick: One caveat; heavy duty brake fluid may have an adverse affect on your ABS system.
You can try to trash Kia all you want, but that's not my concern. What I am stating is fact.
I be saying the same thing if you were trying to tow with a 1/4 ton pick up under the same circumstances.
So get brakes on your boats trailer, and have a fun with your family. They will be much safer when your tow vehicle (whatever it is) is PROPERLY EQUIPPED!!
The facts are that Kia's sales literature states that the V6 Borrego will tow 5000 lbs. and there is no listed qualifications or asterisked foot note stating that the trailer had to have brakes . I told the saleman it had to be able to tow my 3500 lb boat and trailer. This was one of two requirements that I had. The other being 4WD. I would not have bought the suv if I had been told or seen any literature stating that the trailer had to have brakes. I was deceived by the literature and the sales personnel into buying an suv that according to there sales literature should tow 5000 lbs with or without trailer brakes. The true towing capacity is concealed in the owners manual which you don't see until you have purchased the car. I still haven't heard anything back from the dealer. Deceptive advertising is still against the law in Ohio so the dealer will soon be getting a letter from Ohio's Attorney Generals office. Oh by the way, if it is "too much about nothing" then send me the $900 it will cost me to have brakes put on the boat trailer. Please, no more replies from Kia sales people.
Horst
You have a brand new SUV and a boat worth how much? You should have trailer brakes regardless of what the literature says or doesn't say.
If I were not concerned about the safety of the occupants of the vehicle, I would not have it in the shop to have brakes installed. I hope it doesn't keep you up at night, but I have towed that boat and trailer all over the USA, including California, without trailer brakes. It has been inspected by California weight stations and passed. Makes me wonder if a legally register and licensed vehicle in one state has to be accepted by all states sort of like a marriages.
Then why'd you buy a new Borrego in the first place? Why didn't you get a cheaper tow vehicle? Another Escape perhaps could have suited you since you seem to be pleased with its towing capability. And, no, I'm not a Kia salesman or any other kind of salesman for that matter. I was simply trying to offer some advice to help you sleep at night since Kia's not wanting you to tow an improperly equipped trailer is clearly bringing your world crashing down! :sick:
You obviously have never had an emergency, panic stop - good for you. A jackknife situation would have been a certainty. The tow vehicle stops but not the boat BECAUSE THERE ARE NO BRAKES!!!!!
As a matter of fact (while not having the weight before me) I would venture to guess the Kia is actually a BETTER TOW VEHICLE WHEN PROPERLY EQUIPPED because it is heavier than the Escape.
Congrats on the trailer brakes. You should have had them all along!
But hey, now that your installing brakes, and have an SUV with a big V8, you got nothing to worry about. You should actually thank Kia. Your in a safe situation-more than you have been in for years (according to your own admission).
I would respectfully request you spend some time over at RV.net. You will learn some things about towing that may save your life!
Forget about the lawsuit and have fun in the water!
CHUCK1919, WHEN YOU AND YOUR INFINITE WISEDOM MUSTER ENOUGH VOTES TO MAKE TOWING VEHICLES WITHOUT BRAKES ILLEGAL IN THE STATE OF OHIO, I WILL START LISTENING TO YOU. UNTIL THEN, NOT!
http://www.rockettrailers.com/TrailerBrakeLaws.htm
http://www.campinglife.com/output.cfm?id=1047259
Here is at least two website that says even by Ohio laws you need brakes on that trailer. Maybe you should call the Ohio Highway Patrol...they will know for sure!
If these sites are correct...you could be held liable in a court of law for towing without brakes.
After towing the same trailer with the same tow vehicle for a couple of years, I was pulling away from a traffic light and was up to maybe 15MPH when a small car did a hard stop in front of me. I hit the brakes and plowed the guy right across the intersection. It was determined later that due to defective wiring in the trailer, two of the four brakes had lost their electrical connection. So with just two of the four brakes active in the trailer, the tow vehicle could not stop the mass of the trailer in 50 feet from 15MPH. And this was a truck rated to tow 8000lbs, and a trailer that was 6000lbs.
The laws of physics really don't care what state law says. Anyone towing a trailer of any type that weighs more than about 30% of the towing vehicle is setting themselves up for trouble. I won't sit here and argue state laws, advertising brouchures, or driving skills. The simple truth is that any towed mass behind a vehicle should have it's own self contained braking system. For what a boat/travel trailer costs, brakes are a cheap investment.
IF ANYONE ELSE WANTS TO DISCUSS HOW I GOT SCREWED OUT OF $994 DOLLARS BY KIA AND ITS SUPERIOR KIA OF CINCINNATI, PLEASE CHIME IN.
It seems to me you want Kia or the dealer to pay for something you needed anyway!
Talks about the real capacities of tow vehicles.
Towing beyond any vehicle's manufacturer's weight ratings-or without regard to the properly-equipped limitations a vehicle's manufacturer places on the towing vehicle-relates directly to the "Law of Negligence", and places you, the driver, bearing the full weight of liability issues.
I was at my local KIA dealer today, here in Las Vegas. They have 1 KIA Borrego in EX trim, 2WD, LOADED with every option (DVD rear ent sys, too). MSRP $36,000
They had it marked down to $24,999. I would imagine they would take $22,000 or even less for the Borrego. Seems tempting, until you remember it IS a KIA and there was only ONE model year. Ouch.
KIA sure did have bad timing. Good luck to everyone who bought one.
Let me help you out; 2009 Pontiac G8.
I have two questions on saving gas: 1. Being at 5500ft elevation, is it ok to use 85 octane gas and will I get similar gas mileage/performance? 2. Will shifting into neutral while coasting down hills then back into drive at about 40 mph harm the transmission over time?
Thanks in advance.
I went to the dealer on a Saturday morning, but they said they were very busy to complete all the issues I had, a reoccurring vibration at 70-80, brakes vibrating and an oil change, so I rescheduled. I missed the rescheduled date and when I did finally make it in I was over 12000 miles and the dealer refused to cover the brakes. I contacted Kia Customer Service as I also had to address the vibration between 70 -80 MPH. Kia contacted the dealer to see if a goodwill repair or exchange would be done, and arrange test drive by a regional manager. The dealer Service Manager & Regional Parts Manager test drove my vehicle. Can you believe they had the audacity to tell me that the vibration is inherent to the Borrego because the Regional Manage drives the same SUV and it has the same vibration? It so annoying, you can actually see the passenger seat vibrate. Again they refused to cover the brake repair stating nothing was wrong, even though I had a written estimate from THEM to cut the rotor. The next day I scheduled service to have the brake rotors resurfaced, and they did. How do they explain resurfacing rotors that a Region Manger claims had no brake problem. I had to pay to have the resurfaced.
I’m at 23800 miles, and they warped again. I’m going backing in the morning.
Back to the vibration at 70-80.The dealer put nitrogen in the tire and it improved, but I still feel like the front end has a vibration.
The car has an inherent vibration and according to KIA they all do it. May be I am crazy, or KIA things I need a daily massage.
The KIA Borrego and KIA service is crap. Stay away.