LOL. Good catch. I was trying to figure out what precisely he was referring to that made Buzz correct. It didn't matter anyway, but I did find it curious.
Well as the proud owner of an '03 limited with v-8, x-reas and nav system, I read some of the things on this discussion with some concern. I paid about $600 over msrp for mine. So hearing about discounted 03s makes me worry that I overpaid. The idea that Toyota might change the SR5 also bothers me because the cladding on the SR5 was the only reason I bought the limited and spent the extra money.
You probably didn't get roo ripped off.... after all you're driving around in a vehicle I can only dream about. That said I do know there are some decent deals to be had and in my area (NC) I haven't see any gouging above MSRP. I hope Cliffy and Mackbee are wrong this time and that the demand remains reasonable so I have a shot at a good deal when my time comes.
I just talked with Toyota Customer Assistance and gave them my opinion of the Grey Cladding that looks so horrible on the 2003s. They were VERY HAPPY to hear this and to get my report. They told me to let EVERYONE know to CALL them DIRECTLY! Here is the contact info:
Toyota Customer Assistance 6am - 6pm Pacific Time 800.331.4331 Option #3.
Call and let them know what you think! Pass it on.
Again, I plead with you to contact Toyota to somehow convince them to change the SR5 cladding.
They replied to my email that at this time there are no plans to change the gray cladding on the SR5. Make them change their minds!
All we can do is refuse to purchase it and hopefully they won't sell any... possibly then they will realize what a mistake that ugly cladding crap is! Thanks guys!
1. I think one of my area dealers (not my local one) is keeping one limited '03 on the sales floor for people to look at - they are intentionally not selling it until more are in stock.
2. There are still a lot of '02s to be sold, maybe they are trying to focus on those. That same dealer still has about 5 '02s, including a really nice green and silver SR5 4WD with the tow package and large tires. Sticker is $33.1K. They have a red sign hanging from the mirror that says "special $27,800". I was told by the salesman that included $2000 cash back from Toyota. Seems like a pretty good deal...
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Ok, just made one last call on behalf of ya'll; yes, they were VERY interested and polite about it. She even apologized. I could hear her taking extensive notes (i.e., typing) about my interview with Newsweek and why after a 3 year wait the cladding was such a deal-killer (IMHO) that my wife and I defected and just bought Plan B. I did not even get into the fender notches, silver skunk-stripes, etc. issues.; focused solely on desires for a monochrome, color-keyed/impregnated cladding option code. She said Corporate was very interested in this sort of feedback, and that if enough people contacted them a change could eventually result. Hope it helps.
My '02 4Runner Ltd. 4wd listed height in the Toyota brochure is 68.5". Here are some strange facts:
1. 2wd model is also 68.5, BUT ground clearance in 4wd is 11.0 vs. 10.2 in 2wd.
2. In "pressroom.toyota.com", the listed height is 67.9" for my '02 4Runner Ltd. 4wd.
3. In 2001, in the brochure, the 4runner Ltd. 4wd has a listed height of 69.3 for 4wd Ltd. and 68.5" for 2wd Ltd. Ground clearance is also 11 vs. 10.2.
4. Approach/departure angles are all the same between the '01 and '02 4Runners...you would think a decrease in height will decrease these angles.
Very conflicting information!!
Did the '02 4Runner drop an inch in height for some reason?? Did Toyota change the springs??
In addition prior to 2001, the approach and departure angles were 1 degree better (36/29 vs. 35/28 now). Prior to 2001, height of the 4Runner Ltd. 4wd was 69.3". Did something change???? Maybe you can ask your parts-guy to check if the springs are the same for all 4Runner Ltd. 4wd since 2000???
Yes, i am a bit picky with numbers...i have issues!
First of all, realize that the guys who print the brochures and make the press releases are not infallible. I have an hypothesis about this. There are different heights between the 2WD and 4WD. There are also difference in height between the stock tires of 2001 and the optional tires for 2001. Those optional tires for 2001 became standard part way through the model year. Therefore, you have 4 different possible overall heights. 2WD with stock 2001 tires, 2WD with optional 2001 or standard 2002 tires, 4WD with stock 2001 tires and 4WD with optional 2001 tires.
Now the part that confuses me is that the Limited only had one possible tire. It is likely that whomever wrote the brochure missed that fact when listing the overall heights in 2002.
That is what i thought...but, for crying out loud, why can't they keep these facts straight!
Toyota people (except you, Cliffy) know NOTHING about off-roading, nor care to learn! Darn, they can't even copy the information right! Plus the bogus ground clearance measurement...add it all up...and you have one confused customer! None of my salesman even know how to shift the 4Runner into 4-LO nor the function of center diff lock!!
I called that number for Toyota Customer Service. No plans to change the cladding. They said their market research indicated people wanted a more rugged look. I asked where they got their research from. He said it was from all across the country. I almost asked what country was this, couldn't be here.
He kept on stressing the "rugged" aspect of the cladding, but most people don't even go off road with these ( kind of sad really for the 4WD). Quite interesting info.
If rugged was their aim, then why did they lower the ground clearance? Oh well.
I owned 2002 a toyota sequoia. But my wife was initmidated by its size. So I am looking into the new 4runner. I agreeed with everybody here that the cladding in SR5 is horrible. It might be a good idea if Toyota adopts similar plastics as used in lexus ES300. Another thing I doesn't like is the weird air conditioner knob. It looks plain cheap.
The second row doesn't have enough leg room and head room, especially equiped with the side curtain air bag. Driver seat has plenty of leg room but barely any head room. I sit in a SR5 which has no power seat option. My head almost ouched the roof. So I think power seat is a must for any one over 6 feet since the manual seat can not be lowered ( though it can be tilted.) But my sale guy told me that only limited version comes with power seats.
Now back to my test drive experience . Silky smooth tranmission and super quiet engine. I drove the sequoia so I can assure you the 5 speed transmission is a lot smoother than sequoia. 2003 4runner drives faster, tighter and quieter. So 4 runner wins thumb up here. The rear seat design allow the second row to be lowered to creat the huge flat area. Very neat design.
So overall the power train is the best in its class. It handles nimble, drives quick and park with easy. All in all, if you are not too tall and have the money to go for limited, or the cladding doesn't bother you, it is a vechicle for you.
One word of advice for anyone who doesn't want to pay MSRP - SHOP! Example: If you're in New England, I suggest you go to the biggest Toyota Dealer in Ct. (Hartford Toyota) like I did and see - (can I say R.J.'s name here?). There are 6 dealers within a 30 mile radius of Hartford. I drove an extra 10 miles from my house and saved a couple of big ones. My Galactic Gray Limited is on the way. Any questions?
If Toyota wants a car that looks rugged, why don't they just put the cladding on the Sport models. Those are the consumers who would most likely be interested in off-road and "rugged" features. I called customer service today and they were not the least bit interested in what I had to say. The guy was a total moron, much like many car salesmen that have told me that the 03 runner only comes in a V6. He knew absolutely nothing about the cars and put me on hold for ten minutes to tell me that the SR5 did not come with bodycolored cladding. Oh well! I will keep calling until someone listens and hopefully changes it! Goodluck to all... Please call!
mrwhipple--I agree, just who did they interview to get that research? What country? must have been the GM design team!
This is my first post into the forum. I've been reading your posts since earlier in the year, back when "Buzz Light" said the 03's would be in the dealerships in March. Just want to say you guys are a great source of information!!
I went last Saturday to get a brochure and see the 03 in person. No brochures available but did take a test drive (SR-5 with the only options a roof rack and the $699 scam - free oil change, scotchguard, undercoating, etc - that the Southeast distributors charge). Have to concur with many of you, the engine and ride were smooth! I was really impressed. Just don't like that plastic cladding. Even the salesman said it did make it look cheap. Kind of reminds you of the cladding on the Xterra.
All in all, I'll get use to the design, but still think the 02 looked better. Now I have to see if I can wait until Jan for the V6's, or go to the "dark side" for the 03 Pathy as some of you have (I get a weekly call from the Nissan dealership - just waiting for them to bring back 3.9% financing and incentives). I would prefer the Runner for Toyota quality and resale, but here in the Miami area, it's next to impossible to negotiate a reasonable price with Toyota because of the large export market. Nissan is more willing to negotiate price. BTW the Toyota salesman said the V6's would be $2000 less. Any truth to that Cliffy? I find that one hard to believe!
I would be shocked if the V6 were $2000 less. The price difference between a Tundra V8 and V6 is only about $1100 and that is between the 4.7 V8 and the 3.4 V6.
I'm 6'6" and i also had a problem with the seats in giving thigh support. I hope Toyota will correct this in the future. I guess for now, I will be looking at another SUV to buy.
Yes I think Cliffy is right. I think the price of $26,335 was for the base 2002 model not the 2003. And yes the price of the Limited was reduced in 2001 by $1500, it may of been 2002 like Cliffy stated, but I thought it was 2001. Anyway I don't think the price has dropped yet. Here is a link to prices on the Toyota site. As you can see no prices are out for the V6's, at least not yet.
I had to look it up. The price drop was in February 2001 and I bought my 4Runner in March of that year. As you can see not only was the price dropped for the Limited, it also dropped for the SR5. So I think the $1500 price drop was for the old model and not the 2003.
The Toyota website (build your own section) states the base MSRP as $26,335 for the SR5, but if you click on it, the lowest base listed is 28,005. A difference of $1,670.
Has Toyota raised the price this much or is the difference attributed to the V8 engine and the V6 will be around $26,335?
You've got an apples to oranges comparison. The V6 you are looking at is a 2002. The V8 is a 2003. There are differences in standard and optional equipment between the two.
I was at work yesterday and I overheard a coversation about 4Runners and a guy mentioned that you shouldn't put anything in it but 89 or higher octane. This bothered me so I jumped into the conversation. I mentioned that I had just bought a 4Runner and I put 87 in it because the engine can run off of it. He told me that I was killing my truck and I would pay the price in the long run for expensive repairs. I told him about this board and all the people that say 87 octane can be used. Now, I'm confused. For all of you 3rd Generation owners out there 2002 and below, what octane gas do you use and how has it worked for the truck? Any fuel injection problems or costly repairs. The guy told me higher octane fuel keeps the fuel injectors much cleaner and does many wonders for the truck. I'm really not sure what the deal is now for this truck. Please Help.
The Toyota website does not specify that the $26k figure is for the 02 model; however, I do believe that it is. You are right about the differences in features, but my question was, has Toyota raised the BASE MSRP that much? I would think they would want to keep base fairly similar to previous years, especially during a recession.
Number crunching--The Tundra V6 lists at 22,525 and the V8 at 23,835 I believe. This is a difference of $1,310. (or as a percentage difference, about five and one half percent less for the V6). Again though, the V6 engine in the Tundra is different from the one they are putting in the 4Runner.
None of it matters much though for the SR5, because I won't be taking my $30k to Toyota until they make the 4Runner look decent by removing that hideous grey cladding. Thanks for the replies though!
Although not shopping for a 4Runner, I just like to keep up with what Toyota is doing in the marketplace.
I fail to see the point of this truck based SUV in a market going to car based SUVs, since most people don't go offroad anyway. Not very roomy, overpriced, even though the quality is top notch and so is the powertrain. My prediction is that it will flop, and Toyota will phase it out after this generation in favor of a less expensive SUV based on the upcoming Tacoma pickup.
My 97 4 Runner has 95k and every mile has been with 87 octane. Runs great. I've only done routine maintenance. About every 4th tank is Chevron because it has Techron. I think it helps, but I'm sure it doesn't hurt.
Keep in mind that I have been sitting in an F&I office for over a year now and I don't remember all the exact numbers. I believe that if you look at what is now standard versus what was optional before and add $1300 to account for the V8, you will find that the new one is is only a little more than the previous generation. Ignore, the base MSRP because they never came basic.
I have an '02 4Runner. It has been getting 87 octane since day 1. The engine is designed to run at 87 octane. The ONLY time that you MAY need higher octane is when you tow regularly. Again, MAY need higher octane.
I use Chevron Fuel System Cleaner every 3000 miles. I like them. All of the brands are probably the same, but Chevron did good on my old car.
I have a '99 with 106,000 on the odometer and ran 87 octane with different brands of gasoline, I (a year ago) switched to Texaco super unleaded and added a TRD air filter and it runs with a little more punch. I did the air filter first and then increased the octane level, personally, it helped my performance and increased my gas mileage about 1+ mpg. When I go back to the 87, it just doesn't have the little bit of punch that I get with the higher octane. But, don't get me wrong, it runs perfectly fine on 87,but, I do notice the difference with the octane....Particularly, driving a lot of hills...
All I am really trying to determine is the difference in price of the V6 and V8. Are you saying that you think the $1300 is attributable to the V8 engine or to the upgraded features? About what price difference will there be between the V6 and V8. Thanks for your input and expertise.
"We make every effort to manufacture a quality product by researching, testing, and constantly monitoring performance. Consumer opinion and perception also play an active role in our ongoing efforts to lead the automobile industry in quality, innovation, styling, and reliability.
It is through communications such as yours that we become aware of the reactions and expectations of our customers.
While we have no current plans regarding the cladding on the SR5, your input will be considered, along with that of other customers and other input from Toyota's ongoing research, which uses sources including customer feedback, consumer research, focus groups and market studies.
Due to the length of the product development cycle, every effort is made to ensure that the product we produce is desirable to its intended audience when a vehicle is introduced, and for as long as possible during its product cycle. Our best research indicates a favorable acceptance of the SR5 cladding, for its rugged appearance, durability and its help with resisting the effects of factors encountered in the course of off-roading. You may notice use of similar materials on competitive off-road vehicles, from both overseas and domestic brands.
The bottom line is that Toyota appreciates your willingness to stand up and be counted, whether you like a particular feature or not, because our success is directly tied to the ability of our vehicles to meet the wants and needs of our customers; your communication with us facilitates that process and helps us make decisions that affect our product offerings down the road."
I actually haven't sat down and examined sticker for sticker features. If I remember correctly, a "loaded" SR5 last year, sans leather ran about $33K. A similarly equipped 2003 is about $34,400. I figure the engine should be about $1300 worth of difference based on the prices of the Tundra V8 and V6. That means the 2003 is roughly the same price as a 2002 give or take a couple hundred.
I happen to look at the Toyota site that has "Build Your Own". Sure enough it has two pictures of the 2003 4Runners with a banner saying $1500 off the Limited. But the specs, such as the 3.4 V6 engine and rear drum brakes are for the 2002. Bottom line: They have only partially upgraded their site. Which makes it a little confusing. Unfortunately they haven't upgraded the prices.
One other thing about the Toyota site, they have a 4Ruuner off road game and I couldn't get past the first check point while my son, who is too young to drive went through three different courses, sand, uphill and downhill.
It’s that time of year again. The staff has been busy putting the new-for-’03 vehicles through the paces--sand, hill, rockcrawling, racetrack, highway, and much more--to determine which is the Four Wheeler of the Year. While we are busy judging which vehicle performs best, we are wondering which one you think will win the coveted title. Your choices?
Ford Excursion (6.0L PowerStroke diesel)
Hummer H2 (all-new vehicle)
Jeep Wrangler Rubicon (new off-road package)
Kia Sorento (all-new vehicle)
Lexus GX470 (all-new vehicle)
Mitsubishi Montero (new 3.8L V-6 and traction/skid control system)
Toyota 4Runner (redesigned, including 4.7L V-8)
To find out which vehicle does win our competition, pick up the February issue of Four Wheeler Magazine, on sale 12/31.
My guess is that the H2 will win, followed by the Rubicon, Lexus GX470, 4Runner, Montero, Excursion, and Kia
This is a resourceful article that should answer your question Jeffjeff. One interesting note, using an octane rating higher than specified can actually damage your emissions control system.
is the Wrangler Rubicon, as Four Wheeler only really cares about off-road ability. When push-comes-to-shove, off-roading is what will carry the day in their minds. Everything else is secondary.
Also, the 4WD rags in general have been drooling over the Rubicon ever since it was announced. This will just make it official. I don't think any of the other contenders are even in the running.
I agree with this article on alot of the points it makes. Granted most of them are small gripes, but as long as Toyota took to design this update and all of the consumer research they SUPPOSEDLY put into it I am a bit underwhelmed by some of the features. The exterior (except the notched cladding), the xreas, vsc, atrac and drivetrain/4wd drive systems all seem outstanding. However the interior details don't seem quite up to par. I know these are minor, but here's my list of shortcomings: - rear window goes down with key fob, but up only from inside. doesn't make sense to me. - for those who want the power seats where is the 2 position seat memory, that most competitors offer? - the HVAC nobs/dials/toggles are complete garbage. About 5-10 years ago car makers figured out the easiest to use were good ol' dials. Why try something this wacky? - with the explosion of portable electronics as of late, why is there only one lighter/plug in the front? you have to order the smoker's package to get a second. Nice for the GPS/phone/PDA/laptop, but how about one inside the center console away from prying eyes? - haven't seen a sport yet, but if it doesn't include the mirror on the visor like the article says then I'm surprised. Again I thought this was pretty much an industry standard. - I'm still undecided about the double decker cargo area. To be truly useful it needs to be able to support more weight since that's where the big stuff would have to go if I cram small items (that's all that will fit) under it. As it is now it just takes an inch away from available height. I rather see the cargo area finished in an uncarpeted durable rubber/polymer matting, with a storage divider of some sort standard. - if you're gonna offer a rear entertainment system then where's the DVD player?
As I said these are relatively small issues and most are not even options I would personally want/need, but their abscence makes me wonder what was going on at Toyota.
I think the H2 will win, because not only is the off road great, but the Four Wheeler of the Year competition also includes, highway driving, breaking, handling, etc.. Also, I know Rubicon has front and rear lockers, but the H2 has rear locker and high tech front traction control, along with 35 inch tires, compared to Rubicons 31.
Now, when Four Wheeler has their next Ultimate 4x4 Competition, which STRICTLY rates OFF ROAD ABILITY and OFF ROAD ABILITY ONLY, it should include the H1, H2, Rubicon, Tacoma, and Mercedes G500, that will be fun!
First onn Foghorn's post - a minor point - there is a plug in the center console in my 03 runner.
I agree that there is not much head clearance. It's interesting how people are pretty much unanimous on what is wrong and right with the vehicle. Bad - head clearance, weird climate controls, no position memory on seats, second tier storage not that useful, bad cladding on SR5, kind of strange interior finish that looks a little like a kitchen counter or bathroom wall, no roll up of rear window with remote, etc. Good - solid truck frame, great powerful and smooth engine, great ride and handling, great 4 wheel drive system, great xreas system (I really like this) and great fit and finish on the exterior and interior components. Of course all of the good things are what matter to me and none of the bad things (except the cladding) mattered that much.
Will the gas mileage improve or get worse over time. The car computer is showing an average of less than 16 mpg for both city and highway driving over the last week. According to the mnfctr information it should be somewhere between 16 and 20. It doesn't seem like I am going to break 16 let alone get close to 20 and it was the superior gas mileage of the 4runner over the Pathfinder that was one of the reasons I dropped the extra cash. Any ideas? Is each 4runner going to be different when it comes to mileage?
The limited has the lighted mirror in the visor on both passenger and driver visors.
A word of warning. My 03 came with the premium JBL sound system and nav system. The salesman assumed and told me that I had a 6 CD changer in the truck based on the fact that I had the premium sound system. Apparently he was wrong. So don't assume that you will get the 6 CD changer with the premium sound system and nav system. He told me after I bought it that it didn't have the 6 CD changer because the power supply probably could support a 6 CD changer in addition to everything else. Is that accurate?
The Rubicon will win by far! Don't forget the Rubicon is no ordinary Wrangler. New this year, it has a 4-speed automatic tranny (better for highway) and better sealing for the hardtop & softtop. Shocks are upgraded to mono-tube high pressure. Seats are supposedly more comfy.
As far as off-roading, it will blow away ANY stock SUV in the US, including G500, Hummer H1 & H2. With it's small size, good torque, and awesome low range. Crawl ratio = 65...highest of ANY stock SUV, including Hummers. You just simply can't beat that!
Comments
Want me to hold him down while you play with that Torsen LSD, Cliffy?
Steve, Host
: )
Mackabee
Anyway, truck drives great. Smooth and powerful.
I just talked with Toyota Customer Assistance and gave them my opinion of the Grey Cladding that looks so horrible on the 2003s. They were VERY HAPPY to hear this and to get my report. They told me to let EVERYONE know to CALL them DIRECTLY! Here is the contact info:
Toyota Customer Assistance
6am - 6pm Pacific Time
800.331.4331 Option #3.
Call and let them know what you think! Pass it on.
They replied to my email that at this time there are no plans to change the gray cladding on the SR5. Make them change their minds!
All we can do is refuse to purchase it and hopefully they won't sell any... possibly then they will realize what a mistake that ugly cladding crap is! Thanks guys!
You do have to pay extra for being the first on the block with an '03 4Runner Ltd! It's OK...now you have bragging rights for a while!
2. There are still a lot of '02s to be sold, maybe they are trying to focus on those. That same dealer still has about 5 '02s, including a really nice green and silver SR5 4WD with the tow package and large tires. Sticker is $33.1K. They have a red sign hanging from the mirror that says "special $27,800". I was told by the salesman that included $2000 cash back from Toyota. Seems like a pretty good deal...
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
1. 2wd model is also 68.5, BUT ground clearance in 4wd is 11.0 vs. 10.2 in 2wd.
2. In "pressroom.toyota.com", the listed height is 67.9" for my '02 4Runner Ltd. 4wd.
3. In 2001, in the brochure, the 4runner Ltd. 4wd has a listed height of 69.3 for 4wd Ltd. and 68.5" for 2wd Ltd. Ground clearance is also 11 vs. 10.2.
4. Approach/departure angles are all the same between the '01 and '02 4Runners...you would think a decrease in height will decrease these angles.
Very conflicting information!!
Did the '02 4Runner drop an inch in height for some reason?? Did Toyota change the springs??
In addition prior to 2001, the approach and departure angles were 1 degree better (36/29 vs. 35/28 now). Prior to 2001, height of the 4Runner Ltd. 4wd was 69.3". Did something change???? Maybe you can ask your parts-guy to check if the springs are the same for all 4Runner Ltd. 4wd since 2000???
Yes, i am a bit picky with numbers...i have issues!
First of all, realize that the guys who print the brochures and make the press releases are not infallible. I have an hypothesis about this. There are different heights between the 2WD and 4WD. There are also difference in height between the stock tires of 2001 and the optional tires for 2001. Those optional tires for 2001 became standard part way through the model year. Therefore, you have 4 different possible overall heights. 2WD with stock 2001 tires, 2WD with optional 2001 or standard 2002 tires, 4WD with stock 2001 tires and 4WD with optional 2001 tires.
Now the part that confuses me is that the Limited only had one possible tire. It is likely that whomever wrote the brochure missed that fact when listing the overall heights in 2002.
I don't know.
Toyota people (except you, Cliffy) know NOTHING about off-roading, nor care to learn! Darn, they can't even copy the information right! Plus the bogus ground clearance measurement...add it all up...and you have one confused customer! None of my salesman even know how to shift the 4Runner into 4-LO nor the function of center diff lock!!
Thanks to Edmunds for this forum!
Steve, Host
He kept on stressing the "rugged" aspect of the cladding, but most people don't even go off road with these ( kind of sad really for the 4WD). Quite interesting info.
If rugged was their aim, then why did they lower the ground clearance? Oh well.
The second row doesn't have enough leg room and head room, especially equiped with the side curtain air bag. Driver seat has plenty of leg room but barely any head room. I sit in a SR5 which has no power seat option. My head almost ouched the roof. So I think power seat is a must for any one over 6 feet since the manual seat can not be lowered ( though it can be tilted.) But my sale guy told me that only limited version comes with power seats.
Now back to my test drive experience . Silky smooth tranmission and super quiet engine. I drove the sequoia so I can assure you the 5 speed transmission is a lot smoother than sequoia. 2003 4runner drives faster, tighter and quieter. So 4 runner wins thumb up here. The rear seat design allow the second row to be lowered to creat the huge flat area. Very neat design.
So overall the power train is the best in its class. It handles nimble, drives quick and park with easy. All in all, if you are not too tall and have the money to go for limited, or the cladding doesn't bother you, it is a vechicle for you.
P.S. I want a 4x4 SR5 without all the cladding and crap.
I called customer service today and they were not the least bit interested in what I had to say. The guy was a total moron, much like many car salesmen that have told me that the 03 runner only comes in a V6. He knew absolutely nothing about the cars and put me on hold for ten minutes to tell me that the SR5 did not come with bodycolored cladding. Oh well! I will keep calling until someone listens and hopefully changes it! Goodluck to all... Please call!
mrwhipple--I agree, just who did they interview to get that research? What country? must have been the GM design team!
I went last Saturday to get a brochure and see the 03 in person. No brochures available but did take a test drive (SR-5 with the only options a roof rack and the $699 scam - free oil change, scotchguard, undercoating, etc - that the Southeast distributors charge). Have to concur with many of you, the engine and ride were smooth! I was really impressed. Just don't like that plastic cladding. Even the salesman said it did make it look cheap. Kind of reminds you of the cladding on the Xterra.
All in all, I'll get use to the design, but still think the 02 looked better. Now I have to see if I can wait until Jan for the V6's, or go to the "dark side" for the 03 Pathy as some of you have (I get a weekly call from the Nissan dealership - just waiting for them to bring back 3.9% financing and incentives). I would prefer the Runner for Toyota quality and resale, but here in the Miami area, it's next to impossible to negotiate a reasonable price with Toyota because of the large export market. Nissan is more willing to negotiate price. BTW the Toyota salesman said the V6's would be $2000 less. Any truth to that Cliffy? I find that one hard to believe!
tidester, host
Interesting new information.
For a V6 SR5 the price starts at $26335
Next to the limited picture, there's a small label" MSRP reduced $1500".
It looks to me Toyota is slapped by the economy reality.
http://www.toyota.com/html/shop/vehicles/4runner/price/4runner_price.html
http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/dai/February/20010205_dai_toyota4runner.xml?keywords=4Runner
Has Toyota raised the price this much or is the difference attributed to the V8 engine and the V6 will be around $26,335?
Number crunching--The Tundra V6 lists at 22,525 and the V8 at 23,835 I believe. This is a difference of $1,310. (or as a percentage difference, about five and one half percent less for the V6). Again though, the V6 engine in the Tundra is different from the one they are putting in the 4Runner.
None of it matters much though for the SR5, because I won't be taking my $30k to Toyota until they make the 4Runner look decent by removing that hideous grey cladding. Thanks for the replies though!
http://www.detnews.com/2002/autosconsumer/0210/23/f01-619571.htm
Although not shopping for a 4Runner, I just like to keep up with what Toyota is doing in the marketplace.
I fail to see the point of this truck based SUV in a market going to car based SUVs, since most people don't go offroad anyway. Not very roomy, overpriced, even though the quality is top notch and so is the powertrain. My prediction is that it will flop, and Toyota will phase it out after this generation in favor of a less expensive SUV based on the upcoming Tacoma pickup.
Jack
I use Chevron Fuel System Cleaner every 3000 miles. I like them. All of the brands are probably the same, but Chevron did good on my old car.
It is through communications such as yours that we become aware of the reactions and expectations of our customers.
While we have no current plans regarding the cladding on the SR5, your input will be considered, along with that of other customers and other input from Toyota's ongoing research, which uses sources including customer feedback, consumer research, focus groups and market studies.
Due to the length of the product development cycle, every effort is made to ensure that the product we produce is desirable to its intended audience when a vehicle is introduced, and for as long as possible during its product cycle. Our best research indicates a favorable acceptance of the SR5 cladding, for its rugged appearance, durability and its help with resisting the effects of factors encountered in the course of off-roading. You may notice use of similar materials on competitive off-road vehicles, from both overseas and domestic brands.
The bottom line is that Toyota appreciates your willingness to stand up and be counted, whether you like a particular feature or not, because our success is directly tied to the ability of our vehicles to meet the wants and needs of our customers; your communication with us facilitates that process and helps us make decisions that affect our product offerings down the road."
One other thing about the Toyota site, they have a 4Ruuner off road game and I couldn't get past the first check point while my son, who is too young to drive went through three different courses, sand, uphill and downhill.
Which Will Win?
It’s that time of year again. The staff has been busy putting the new-for-’03 vehicles through the paces--sand, hill, rockcrawling, racetrack, highway, and much more--to determine which is the Four Wheeler of the Year. While we are busy judging which vehicle performs best, we are wondering which one you think will win the coveted title.
Your choices?
Ford Excursion (6.0L PowerStroke diesel)
Hummer H2 (all-new vehicle)
Jeep Wrangler Rubicon (new off-road package)
Kia Sorento (all-new vehicle)
Lexus GX470 (all-new vehicle)
Mitsubishi Montero (new 3.8L V-6 and traction/skid control system)
Toyota 4Runner (redesigned, including 4.7L V-8)
To find out which vehicle does win our competition, pick up the February issue of Four Wheeler Magazine, on sale 12/31.
My guess is that the H2 will win, followed by the Rubicon, Lexus GX470, 4Runner, Montero, Excursion, and Kia
http://chemistry.about.com/library/weekly/aabyb100401.htm
Also, the 4WD rags in general have been drooling over the Rubicon ever since it was announced. This will just make it official. I don't think any of the other contenders are even in the running.
Bob
- rear window goes down with key fob, but up only from inside. doesn't make sense to me.
- for those who want the power seats where is the 2 position seat memory, that most competitors offer?
- the HVAC nobs/dials/toggles are complete garbage. About 5-10 years ago car makers figured out the easiest to use were good ol' dials. Why try something this wacky?
- with the explosion of portable electronics as of late, why is there only one lighter/plug in the front? you have to order the smoker's package to get a second. Nice for the GPS/phone/PDA/laptop, but how about one inside the center console away from prying eyes?
- haven't seen a sport yet, but if it doesn't include the mirror on the visor like the article says then I'm surprised. Again I thought this was pretty much an industry standard.
- I'm still undecided about the double decker cargo area. To be truly useful it needs to be able to support more weight since that's where the big stuff would have to go if I cram small items (that's all that will fit) under it. As it is now it just takes an inch away from available height. I rather see the cargo area finished in an uncarpeted durable rubber/polymer matting, with a storage divider of some sort standard.
- if you're gonna offer a rear entertainment system then where's the DVD player?
As I said these are relatively small issues and most are not even options I would personally want/need, but their abscence makes me wonder what was going on at Toyota.
Now, when Four Wheeler has their next Ultimate 4x4 Competition, which STRICTLY rates OFF ROAD ABILITY and OFF ROAD ABILITY ONLY, it should include the H1, H2, Rubicon, Tacoma, and Mercedes G500, that will be fun!
I agree that there is not much head clearance. It's interesting how people are pretty much unanimous on what is wrong and right with the vehicle. Bad - head clearance, weird climate controls, no position memory on seats, second tier storage not that useful, bad cladding on SR5, kind of strange interior finish that looks a little like a kitchen counter or bathroom wall, no roll up of rear window with remote, etc. Good - solid truck frame, great powerful and smooth engine, great ride and handling, great 4 wheel drive system, great xreas system (I really like this) and great fit and finish on the exterior and interior components. Of course all of the good things are what matter to me and none of the bad things (except the cladding) mattered that much.
Chidofu
Chidofu
The limited has the lighted mirror in the visor on both passenger and driver visors.
A word of warning. My 03 came with the premium JBL sound system and nav system. The salesman assumed and told me that I had a 6 CD changer in the truck based on the fact that I had the premium sound system. Apparently he was wrong. So don't assume that you will get the 6 CD changer with the premium sound system and nav system. He told me after I bought it that it didn't have the 6 CD changer because the power supply probably could support a 6 CD changer in addition to everything else. Is that accurate?
Chidofu
As far as off-roading, it will blow away ANY stock SUV in the US, including G500, Hummer H1 & H2. With it's small size, good torque, and awesome low range. Crawl ratio = 65...highest of ANY stock SUV, including Hummers. You just simply can't beat that!