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Want me to hold him down while you play with that Torsen LSD, Cliffy?
Steve, Host
: )
Mackabee
Anyway, truck drives great. Smooth and powerful.
I just talked with Toyota Customer Assistance and gave them my opinion of the Grey Cladding that looks so horrible on the 2003s. They were VERY HAPPY to hear this and to get my report. They told me to let EVERYONE know to CALL them DIRECTLY! Here is the contact info:
Toyota Customer Assistance
6am - 6pm Pacific Time
800.331.4331 Option #3.
Call and let them know what you think! Pass it on.
They replied to my email that at this time there are no plans to change the gray cladding on the SR5. Make them change their minds!
All we can do is refuse to purchase it and hopefully they won't sell any... possibly then they will realize what a mistake that ugly cladding crap is! Thanks guys!
You do have to pay extra for being the first on the block with an '03 4Runner Ltd! It's OK...now you have bragging rights for a while!
2. There are still a lot of '02s to be sold, maybe they are trying to focus on those. That same dealer still has about 5 '02s, including a really nice green and silver SR5 4WD with the tow package and large tires. Sticker is $33.1K. They have a red sign hanging from the mirror that says "special $27,800". I was told by the salesman that included $2000 cash back from Toyota. Seems like a pretty good deal...
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
1. 2wd model is also 68.5, BUT ground clearance in 4wd is 11.0 vs. 10.2 in 2wd.
2. In "pressroom.toyota.com", the listed height is 67.9" for my '02 4Runner Ltd. 4wd.
3. In 2001, in the brochure, the 4runner Ltd. 4wd has a listed height of 69.3 for 4wd Ltd. and 68.5" for 2wd Ltd. Ground clearance is also 11 vs. 10.2.
4. Approach/departure angles are all the same between the '01 and '02 4Runners...you would think a decrease in height will decrease these angles.
Very conflicting information!!
Did the '02 4Runner drop an inch in height for some reason?? Did Toyota change the springs??
In addition prior to 2001, the approach and departure angles were 1 degree better (36/29 vs. 35/28 now). Prior to 2001, height of the 4Runner Ltd. 4wd was 69.3". Did something change???? Maybe you can ask your parts-guy to check if the springs are the same for all 4Runner Ltd. 4wd since 2000???
Yes, i am a bit picky with numbers...i have issues!
First of all, realize that the guys who print the brochures and make the press releases are not infallible. I have an hypothesis about this. There are different heights between the 2WD and 4WD. There are also difference in height between the stock tires of 2001 and the optional tires for 2001. Those optional tires for 2001 became standard part way through the model year. Therefore, you have 4 different possible overall heights. 2WD with stock 2001 tires, 2WD with optional 2001 or standard 2002 tires, 4WD with stock 2001 tires and 4WD with optional 2001 tires.
Now the part that confuses me is that the Limited only had one possible tire. It is likely that whomever wrote the brochure missed that fact when listing the overall heights in 2002.
I don't know.
Toyota people (except you, Cliffy) know NOTHING about off-roading, nor care to learn! Darn, they can't even copy the information right! Plus the bogus ground clearance measurement...add it all up...and you have one confused customer! None of my salesman even know how to shift the 4Runner into 4-LO nor the function of center diff lock!!
Thanks to Edmunds for this forum!
Steve, Host
He kept on stressing the "rugged" aspect of the cladding, but most people don't even go off road with these ( kind of sad really for the 4WD). Quite interesting info.
If rugged was their aim, then why did they lower the ground clearance? Oh well.
The second row doesn't have enough leg room and head room, especially equiped with the side curtain air bag. Driver seat has plenty of leg room but barely any head room. I sit in a SR5 which has no power seat option. My head almost ouched the roof. So I think power seat is a must for any one over 6 feet since the manual seat can not be lowered ( though it can be tilted.) But my sale guy told me that only limited version comes with power seats.
Now back to my test drive experience . Silky smooth tranmission and super quiet engine. I drove the sequoia so I can assure you the 5 speed transmission is a lot smoother than sequoia. 2003 4runner drives faster, tighter and quieter. So 4 runner wins thumb up here. The rear seat design allow the second row to be lowered to creat the huge flat area. Very neat design.
So overall the power train is the best in its class. It handles nimble, drives quick and park with easy. All in all, if you are not too tall and have the money to go for limited, or the cladding doesn't bother you, it is a vechicle for you.
P.S. I want a 4x4 SR5 without all the cladding and crap.
I called customer service today and they were not the least bit interested in what I had to say. The guy was a total moron, much like many car salesmen that have told me that the 03 runner only comes in a V6. He knew absolutely nothing about the cars and put me on hold for ten minutes to tell me that the SR5 did not come with bodycolored cladding. Oh well! I will keep calling until someone listens and hopefully changes it! Goodluck to all... Please call!
mrwhipple--I agree, just who did they interview to get that research? What country? must have been the GM design team!
I went last Saturday to get a brochure and see the 03 in person. No brochures available but did take a test drive (SR-5 with the only options a roof rack and the $699 scam - free oil change, scotchguard, undercoating, etc - that the Southeast distributors charge). Have to concur with many of you, the engine and ride were smooth! I was really impressed. Just don't like that plastic cladding. Even the salesman said it did make it look cheap. Kind of reminds you of the cladding on the Xterra.
All in all, I'll get use to the design, but still think the 02 looked better. Now I have to see if I can wait until Jan for the V6's, or go to the "dark side" for the 03 Pathy as some of you have (I get a weekly call from the Nissan dealership - just waiting for them to bring back 3.9% financing and incentives). I would prefer the Runner for Toyota quality and resale, but here in the Miami area, it's next to impossible to negotiate a reasonable price with Toyota because of the large export market. Nissan is more willing to negotiate price. BTW the Toyota salesman said the V6's would be $2000 less. Any truth to that Cliffy? I find that one hard to believe!
tidester, host
Interesting new information.
For a V6 SR5 the price starts at $26335
Next to the limited picture, there's a small label" MSRP reduced $1500".
It looks to me Toyota is slapped by the economy reality.
http://www.toyota.com/html/shop/vehicles/4runner/price/4runner_price.html
http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/dai/February/20010205_dai_toyota4runner.xml?keywords=4Runner
Has Toyota raised the price this much or is the difference attributed to the V8 engine and the V6 will be around $26,335?
Number crunching--The Tundra V6 lists at 22,525 and the V8 at 23,835 I believe. This is a difference of $1,310. (or as a percentage difference, about five and one half percent less for the V6). Again though, the V6 engine in the Tundra is different from the one they are putting in the 4Runner.
None of it matters much though for the SR5, because I won't be taking my $30k to Toyota until they make the 4Runner look decent by removing that hideous grey cladding. Thanks for the replies though!
http://www.detnews.com/2002/autosconsumer/0210/23/f01-619571.htm
Although not shopping for a 4Runner, I just like to keep up with what Toyota is doing in the marketplace.
I fail to see the point of this truck based SUV in a market going to car based SUVs, since most people don't go offroad anyway. Not very roomy, overpriced, even though the quality is top notch and so is the powertrain. My prediction is that it will flop, and Toyota will phase it out after this generation in favor of a less expensive SUV based on the upcoming Tacoma pickup.
Jack
I use Chevron Fuel System Cleaner every 3000 miles. I like them. All of the brands are probably the same, but Chevron did good on my old car.
It is through communications such as yours that we become aware of the reactions and expectations of our customers.
While we have no current plans regarding the cladding on the SR5, your input will be considered, along with that of other customers and other input from Toyota's ongoing research, which uses sources including customer feedback, consumer research, focus groups and market studies.
Due to the length of the product development cycle, every effort is made to ensure that the product we produce is desirable to its intended audience when a vehicle is introduced, and for as long as possible during its product cycle. Our best research indicates a favorable acceptance of the SR5 cladding, for its rugged appearance, durability and its help with resisting the effects of factors encountered in the course of off-roading. You may notice use of similar materials on competitive off-road vehicles, from both overseas and domestic brands.
The bottom line is that Toyota appreciates your willingness to stand up and be counted, whether you like a particular feature or not, because our success is directly tied to the ability of our vehicles to meet the wants and needs of our customers; your communication with us facilitates that process and helps us make decisions that affect our product offerings down the road."
One other thing about the Toyota site, they have a 4Ruuner off road game and I couldn't get past the first check point while my son, who is too young to drive went through three different courses, sand, uphill and downhill.
Which Will Win?
It’s that time of year again. The staff has been busy putting the new-for-’03 vehicles through the paces--sand, hill, rockcrawling, racetrack, highway, and much more--to determine which is the Four Wheeler of the Year. While we are busy judging which vehicle performs best, we are wondering which one you think will win the coveted title.
Your choices?
Ford Excursion (6.0L PowerStroke diesel)
Hummer H2 (all-new vehicle)
Jeep Wrangler Rubicon (new off-road package)
Kia Sorento (all-new vehicle)
Lexus GX470 (all-new vehicle)
Mitsubishi Montero (new 3.8L V-6 and traction/skid control system)
Toyota 4Runner (redesigned, including 4.7L V-8)
To find out which vehicle does win our competition, pick up the February issue of Four Wheeler Magazine, on sale 12/31.
My guess is that the H2 will win, followed by the Rubicon, Lexus GX470, 4Runner, Montero, Excursion, and Kia
http://chemistry.about.com/library/weekly/aabyb100401.htm
Also, the 4WD rags in general have been drooling over the Rubicon ever since it was announced. This will just make it official. I don't think any of the other contenders are even in the running.
Bob
- rear window goes down with key fob, but up only from inside. doesn't make sense to me.
- for those who want the power seats where is the 2 position seat memory, that most competitors offer?
- the HVAC nobs/dials/toggles are complete garbage. About 5-10 years ago car makers figured out the easiest to use were good ol' dials. Why try something this wacky?
- with the explosion of portable electronics as of late, why is there only one lighter/plug in the front? you have to order the smoker's package to get a second. Nice for the GPS/phone/PDA/laptop, but how about one inside the center console away from prying eyes?
- haven't seen a sport yet, but if it doesn't include the mirror on the visor like the article says then I'm surprised. Again I thought this was pretty much an industry standard.
- I'm still undecided about the double decker cargo area. To be truly useful it needs to be able to support more weight since that's where the big stuff would have to go if I cram small items (that's all that will fit) under it. As it is now it just takes an inch away from available height. I rather see the cargo area finished in an uncarpeted durable rubber/polymer matting, with a storage divider of some sort standard.
- if you're gonna offer a rear entertainment system then where's the DVD player?
As I said these are relatively small issues and most are not even options I would personally want/need, but their abscence makes me wonder what was going on at Toyota.
Now, when Four Wheeler has their next Ultimate 4x4 Competition, which STRICTLY rates OFF ROAD ABILITY and OFF ROAD ABILITY ONLY, it should include the H1, H2, Rubicon, Tacoma, and Mercedes G500, that will be fun!
I agree that there is not much head clearance. It's interesting how people are pretty much unanimous on what is wrong and right with the vehicle. Bad - head clearance, weird climate controls, no position memory on seats, second tier storage not that useful, bad cladding on SR5, kind of strange interior finish that looks a little like a kitchen counter or bathroom wall, no roll up of rear window with remote, etc. Good - solid truck frame, great powerful and smooth engine, great ride and handling, great 4 wheel drive system, great xreas system (I really like this) and great fit and finish on the exterior and interior components. Of course all of the good things are what matter to me and none of the bad things (except the cladding) mattered that much.
Chidofu
Chidofu
The limited has the lighted mirror in the visor on both passenger and driver visors.
A word of warning. My 03 came with the premium JBL sound system and nav system. The salesman assumed and told me that I had a 6 CD changer in the truck based on the fact that I had the premium sound system. Apparently he was wrong. So don't assume that you will get the 6 CD changer with the premium sound system and nav system. He told me after I bought it that it didn't have the 6 CD changer because the power supply probably could support a 6 CD changer in addition to everything else. Is that accurate?
Chidofu
As far as off-roading, it will blow away ANY stock SUV in the US, including G500, Hummer H1 & H2. With it's small size, good torque, and awesome low range. Crawl ratio = 65...highest of ANY stock SUV, including Hummers. You just simply can't beat that!